Andromeda Initiative briefings (6/6 Golden Worlds and Settlements)

Dec 3, 2016 0:23:56 GMT crossngen said:

You didn't, we already know the Reapers' purpose in the Milky Way, and you may not like it, and it may go against your own head canon, but it's to find a way to stop synthetics rebelling on their organic creators in the Milky Way, they believe that eradicating the inhabitants of the galaxy and "Preserving" them is the simplest solution until another, better one comes around, but as far as they care, if the entire inhabitants of the galaxy left it for another, it would also be a solution for that problem, because it's not a problem anymore for the Milky Way, at least until another civilization reaches a space faring age.

No, it would not be a solution. It would leave open the possibility of an AI scenario they opposed occurring outside their control. They were all about control of the Milky Way inhabitants. That's not head canon that's the whole dramatic premise of the Mass Effect Trilogy.

I haven't read a single post in the pro 'this game/ the AI works' camp relying upon head canon.

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Andromeda Initiative briefings (6/6 Golden Worlds and Settlements) Dec 3, 2016 0:29:03 GMT saberchic likes this

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Post by themikefest on Dec 3, 2016 0:29:03 GMT

Dec 3, 2016 0:08:00 GMT Hanako Ikezawa said:

I certainly don't trust them with post-ME3

I do. If they want to have a game after ME3, if wouldn't be hard to do.Yes, a lot of folks will be bent-out-of-shape, but as many have said, they can't please everyone. And yes, I like to have a game that takes place in the Milky Way after the events of ME3. It also would depend on how well MEA does. Time will answer that question. I do believe the game will do well.

Wasn't there something mentioned that the Initiative wants to eventually open a trade route with the Milky Way? If that's the case, it sounds like Bioware has idea's about having another game in the Milky Way. Again. Time will answer that question.

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Andromeda Initiative briefings (6/6 Golden Worlds and Settlements) Dec 3, 2016 0:30:02 GMT

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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Dec 3, 2016 0:30:02 GMT

Dec 3, 2016 0:28:02 GMT colfoley said:

No, it would not be a solution. It would leave open the possibility of an AI scenario they opposed occurring outside their control. They were all about control of the Milky Way inhabitants. That's not head canon that's the whole dramatic premise of the Mass Effect Trilogy.

I haven't read a single post in the pro 'this game/ the AI works' camp relying upon head canon.

No, someone accused me of using head canon.

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Andromeda Initiative briefings (6/6 Golden Worlds and Settlements) Dec 3, 2016 0:31:42 GMT saberchic, colfoley, and 1 more like this

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Post by crossngen on Dec 3, 2016 0:31:42 GMT

Dec 3, 2016 0:23:56 GMT crossngen said:

You didn't, we already know the Reapers' purpose in the Milky Way, and you may not like it, and it may go against your own head canon, but it's to find a way to stop synthetics rebelling on their organic creators in the Milky Way, they believe that eradicating the inhabitants of the galaxy and "Preserving" them is the simplest solution until another, better one comes around, but as far as they care, if the entire inhabitants of the galaxy left it for another, it would also be a solution for that problem, because it's not a problem anymore for the Milky Way, at least until another civilization reaches a space faring age.

No, it would not be a solution. It would leave open the possibility of an AI scenario they opposed occurring outside their control. They were all about control of the Milky Way inhabitants. That's not head canon that's the whole dramatic premise of the Mass Effect Trilogy.

What do the Reapers care about it going out of control if it's not happening in the Galaxy they were designed to protect? they don't care about Andromeda, they care about the Milky Way

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Andromeda Initiative briefings (6/6 Golden Worlds and Settlements) Dec 3, 2016 0:31:58 GMT

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Post by helios969 on Dec 3, 2016 0:31:58 GMT

Dec 3, 2016 0:20:59 GMT Hanako Ikezawa said:

Dec 3, 2016 0:19:23 GMT helios969 said:

It's not really necessary since it's obvious Mass Effect: Andromeda is catchier than Mass Effect: Large Magellanic Cloud. Wouldn't you agree? But really at this point I've given up expecting anything like logic and suspension of disbelief being part of MEA. :nupe:

Mass Effect: Magellan is actually catchier than Mass Effect: Andromeda in my opinion. Fits the theme better too.

Yes, but do we refer to the Large Magellanic Cloud as Magellan? And would anyone other than science nerds understand the reference? I could perhaps swallow the premise better if we went to the LMC, but at this point we're stuck with what we're stuck with.

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Andromeda Initiative briefings (6/6 Golden Worlds and Settlements) Dec 3, 2016 0:32:28 GMT

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Post by colfoley on Dec 3, 2016 0:32:28 GMT

Dec 3, 2016 0:30:02 GMT Fen'Harel Faceman said:

Dec 3, 2016 0:28:02 GMT colfoley said:

I haven't read a single post in the pro 'this game/ the AI works' camp relying upon head canon.

No, someone accused me of using head canon.

ah. my bad.

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Andromeda Initiative briefings (6/6 Golden Worlds and Settlements) Dec 3, 2016 0:32:47 GMT

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Post by areskeith on Dec 3, 2016 0:32:47 GMT

Dec 3, 2016 0:29:03 GMT themikefest said:

Dec 3, 2016 0:08:00 GMT Hanako Ikezawa said:

I certainly don't trust them with post-ME3

Wasn't there something mentioned that the Initiative wants to eventually open a trade route with the Milky Way? If that's the case, it sounds like Bioware has idea's about having another game in the Milky Way. Again. Time will answer that question.

Then the Andromeda/Milky Way war Arc begins :devil:

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Andromeda Initiative briefings (6/6 Golden Worlds and Settlements) Dec 3, 2016 0:33:04 GMT flyingovertrout, PCthug, and 3 more like this

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Post by saberchic on Dec 3, 2016 0:33:04 GMT

Dec 3, 2016 0:24:31 GMT Fen'Harel Faceman said:

Dec 3, 2016 0:15:38 GMT saberchic said:

I disagree. The prothean beacons slipped through as did the plans for the Crucible. The protheans themselves slipped through by hiding on Ilos even though they experienced technical difficulties that ended in their eventual extinction. And though we ourselves don't experience it in game, Liara said she has found evidence that a cycle was re-occurring where races were wiped out, and that there were other civilizations before the Protheans. If you choose the refusal ending, the next cycle finds your messages and defeats the reapers. So yes, things got through. The reapers are not as thorough as they would like you to believe. Besides, the reapers have limited resources and actions they could do. As others have already pointed out, the Collectors taking any action against us would have drawn our attention and ruined the surprise that the reapers wanted by coming.

The ARK only holds 20,000 humans. There is no guarantee that they will even make it--or if they do, that they will survive. And with such a low number, I still don't think the reapers would even care. Their focus seems to be the Milky Way galaxy.

No, the Protheans didn't escape. They died as a result of what the Reapers did to their civilization, only leaving scraps of their tech behind, their Collector shells and sabotage of the Keepers. That's not the same as letting thousands of targeted species escape the galaxy unopposed.

Again, this whole "The Reapers are not as thorough as they would like you to believe" is nonsense from the Mass Effect Trilogy perspective. They were very thorough and the species were very doomed. If this were not the case, there would be no drama for that series.

They did escape actually. However, they had trouble with their stasis pods on Ilos; thus, they ended up dying out.

You can ignore the evidence in game all you want, but it's in there even if we disagree about the protheans; the other things still get through regardless. *shrug* I've stated my case, which is based on things directly from the game.

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Andromeda Initiative briefings (6/6 Golden Worlds and Settlements) Dec 3, 2016 0:34:22 GMT Fen'Harel Faceman likes this

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Post by Iakus on Dec 3, 2016 0:34:22 GMT

Dec 3, 2016 0:15:38 GMT saberchic said:

Dec 2, 2016 23:59:00 GMT Fen'Harel Faceman said:

Why would they let anyone escape their mouse trap? It's all designed to catch races reaching a certain technological point and then convert them into a new Reaper or destroy them. What's the logic behind letting a race (or races) they're trying to convert or destroy escape to another galaxy?

No, things did not slip through. That was the whole point about the Reapers and what made them scary. The whole point of the Mass Effect trilogy was that the sentient technologically advanced races were doomed unless they could somehow defeat the Reapers.

These guys just flying away willy-nilly takes away all the doom. It's silly.

I disagree. The prothean beacons slipped through as did the plans for the Crucible. The protheans themselves slipped through by hiding on Ilos even though they experienced technical difficulties that ended in their eventual extinction. And though we ourselves don't experience it in game, Liara said she has found evidence that a cycle was re-occurring where races were wiped out, and that there were other civilizations before the Protheans. If you choose the refusal ending, the next cycle finds your messages and defeats the reapers. So yes, things got through. The reapers are not as thorough as they would like you to believe. Besides, the reapers have limited resources and actions they could do. As others have already pointed out, the Collectors taking any action against us would have drawn our attention and ruined the surprise that the reapers wanted by coming.

The ARK only holds 20,000 humans. There is no guarantee that they will even make it--or if they do, that they will survive. And with such a low number, I still don't think the reapers would even care. Their focus seems to be the Milky Way galaxy.

The things that "got through": were a broken beacon here, a dozen scientists there, blueprints squirreled away in an underground archive, some cuttlefish crashing on Spongebob's couch. Hints, bits and pieces of tech, clues that might interest archaeologists, but nothing to interest the galaxy in general.

We're talking about a major project involving tech that would allow the MW to escape the Reaper trap. Possibly as many as a hundred thousand colonists can escape the Reaper harvest, establish new homeworlds, and continue growing and developing outside the Reaper cycles. This is something that could defeat the very purpose of the cycles. They'd be all over something like this to make sure it didn't happen.

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Post by Iakus on Dec 3, 2016 0:36:42 GMT

No, it would not be a solution. It would leave open the possibility of an AI scenario they opposed occurring outside their control. They were all about control of the Milky Way inhabitants. That's not head canon that's the whole dramatic premise of the Mass Effect Trilogy.

What do the Reapers care about it going out of control if it's not happening in the Galaxy they were designed to protect? they don't care about Andromeda, they care about the Milky Way

And a synthetic apocalypse happening in a society in Andromeda that has intergalactic travel capability wouldn't worry the Reapers?

Last Edit: Dec 3, 2016 0:36:54 GMT by Iakus

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Andromeda Initiative briefings (6/6 Golden Worlds and Settlements) Dec 3, 2016 0:36:51 GMT

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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 3, 2016 0:36:51 GMT

Dec 3, 2016 0:31:58 GMT helios969 said:

Dec 3, 2016 0:20:59 GMT Hanako Ikezawa said:

Mass Effect: Magellan is actually catchier than Mass Effect: Andromeda in my opinion. Fits the theme better too.

Yes, but do we refer to the Large Magellanic Cloud as Magellan? And would anyone other than science nerds understand the reference? I could perhaps swallow the premise better if we went to the LMC, but at this point we're stuck with what we're stuck with.

Because it has double meaning. First, it refers to the LMC which it would take place in. Second, it would refer to a famous explorer and through that the theme of exploration.
Yeah, unfortunately.

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Andromeda Initiative briefings (6/6 Golden Worlds and Settlements) Dec 3, 2016 0:37:06 GMT Hanako Ikezawa likes this

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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Dec 3, 2016 0:37:06 GMT

No, it would not be a solution. It would leave open the possibility of an AI scenario they opposed occurring outside their control. They were all about control of the Milky Way inhabitants. That's not head canon that's the whole dramatic premise of the Mass Effect Trilogy.

What do the Reapers care about it going out of control if it's not happening in the Galaxy they were designed to protect? they don't care about Andromeda, they care about the Milky Way

If they didn't care about controlling the inhabitants of the Milky Way and keeping them from escape, then why did they control the inhabitants of the Milky Way and keep them from escape?

And who ever said they were only present or interested in the Milky Way? Bioware has always kept that deliberately vague. The Reapers could literally exists in thousands of galaxies if Bioware so chose, they left that wide open. The Leviathan have been in hiding for millions of years, they don't know everything the Reapers have been up to.

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Andromeda Initiative briefings (6/6 Golden Worlds and Settlements) Dec 3, 2016 0:38:28 GMT

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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Dec 3, 2016 0:38:28 GMT

Dec 3, 2016 0:33:04 GMT saberchic said:

Dec 3, 2016 0:24:31 GMT Fen'Harel Faceman said:

No, the Protheans didn't escape. They died as a result of what the Reapers did to their civilization, only leaving scraps of their tech behind, their Collector shells and sabotage of the Keepers. That's not the same as letting thousands of targeted species escape the galaxy unopposed.

Again, this whole "The Reapers are not as thorough as they would like you to believe" is nonsense from the Mass Effect Trilogy perspective. They were very thorough and the species were very doomed. If this were not the case, there would be no drama for that series.

They did escape actually. However, they had trouble with their stasis pods on Ilos; thus, they ended up dying out.

You can ignore the evidence in game all you want, but it's in there even if we disagree about the protheans; the other things still get through regardless. *shrug* I've stated my case, which is based on things directly from the game.

No, they didn't escape. The destruction of their civilization left them doomed. They had to hide on Ilos and ran through nearly all their energy reserves during the 100's of years it took to wipe out the rest of their comrades. Their deaths are a direct result of the Reaper actions. Thus, they did not escape.

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Andromeda Initiative briefings (6/6 Golden Worlds and Settlements) Dec 3, 2016 0:39:17 GMT saberchic likes this

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Post by colfoley on Dec 3, 2016 0:39:17 GMT

Dec 3, 2016 0:37:06 GMT Fen'Harel Faceman said:

What do the Reapers care about it going out of control if it's not happening in the Galaxy they were designed to protect? they don't care about Andromeda, they care about the Milky Way

If they didn't care about controlling the inhabitants of the Milky Way and keeping them from escape, then why did they control the inhabitants of the Milky Way and keep them from escape?

And who ever said they were only present or interested in the Milky Way? Bioware has always kept that deliberately vague. The Reapers could literally exists in thousands of galaxies if Bioware so chose, they left that wide open. The Leviathan have been in hiding for millions of years, they don't know everything the Reapers have been up to.

There is no evidence they tried to keep any previous cycles from escaping.

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Andromeda Initiative briefings (6/6 Golden Worlds and Settlements) Dec 3, 2016 0:39:22 GMT

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Post by crossngen on Dec 3, 2016 0:39:22 GMT

Dec 3, 2016 0:36:42 GMT Iakus said:

What do the Reapers care about it going out of control if it's not happening in the Galaxy they were designed to protect? they don't care about Andromeda, they care about the Milky Way

And a synthetic apocalypse happening in a society in Andromeda that has intergalactic travel capability wouldn't worry the Reapers?

No, because if it worried them they would've done the same thing they did to the Milky way but over there as well.

It might be an advanced AI, but it has the simple designations of: "Find a way to stop synthetics overthrowing their organic masters in this galaxy, this one, not that one, this one."

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Andromeda Initiative briefings (6/6 Golden Worlds and Settlements) Dec 3, 2016 0:40:44 GMT colfoley likes this

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Post by crossngen on Dec 3, 2016 0:40:44 GMT

Dec 3, 2016 0:37:06 GMT Fen'Harel Faceman said:

What do the Reapers care about it going out of control if it's not happening in the Galaxy they were designed to protect? they don't care about Andromeda, they care about the Milky Way

If they didn't care about controlling the inhabitants of the Milky Way and keeping them from escape, then why did they control the inhabitants of the Milky Way and keep them from escape?

And who ever said they were only present or interested in the Milky Way? Bioware has always kept that deliberately vague. The Reapers could literally exists in thousands of galaxies if Bioware so chose, they left that wide open. The Leviathan have been in hiding for millions of years, they don't know everything the Reapers have been up to.

We don't know if any of them even tried to escape, though? as far as this cycle goes it's the first time it's species tried to escape, and we don't know if there were any attempts in past cycles as well.

And if they did go to other galaxies then they wouldn't be hibernating on the edge of the galaxy, because if that was true, then the citadel would've been used to transport them from one galaxy to the next, and seeing as it took them just 2 and a half years from waking up when Sovereign was killed to reaching our galaxy I highly doubt it.

Last Edit: Dec 3, 2016 0:46:03 GMT by crossngen

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Andromeda Initiative briefings (6/6 Golden Worlds and Settlements) Dec 3, 2016 0:41:49 GMT bshep and saberchic like this

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Post by colfoley on Dec 3, 2016 0:41:49 GMT

Dec 3, 2016 0:39:22 GMT crossngen said:

Dec 3, 2016 0:36:42 GMT Iakus said:

And a synthetic apocalypse happening in a society in Andromeda that has intergalactic travel capability wouldn't worry the Reapers?

No, because if it worried them they would've done the same thing they did to the Milky way but over there as well.

It might be an advanced AI, but it has the simple designations of: "Find a way to stop synthetics overthrowing their organic masters in this galaxy, this one, not that one, this one.

Actually uou do raise an interesting point, and another reason why the Reapers just would not care. because the AI was, as far as we know, did not have anything to do with the advancement and development of AI, just a way to leave the galaxy, they probably would not have considered it a prime target of importance.

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Andromeda Initiative briefings (6/6 Golden Worlds and Settlements) Dec 3, 2016 0:41:53 GMT

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Post by saberchic on Dec 3, 2016 0:41:53 GMT

Dec 3, 2016 0:15:38 GMT saberchic said:

I disagree. The prothean beacons slipped through as did the plans for the Crucible. The protheans themselves slipped through by hiding on Ilos even though they experienced technical difficulties that ended in their eventual extinction. And though we ourselves don't experience it in game, Liara said she has found evidence that a cycle was re-occurring where races were wiped out, and that there were other civilizations before the Protheans. If you choose the refusal ending, the next cycle finds your messages and defeats the reapers. So yes, things got through. The reapers are not as thorough as they would like you to believe. Besides, the reapers have limited resources and actions they could do. As others have already pointed out, the Collectors taking any action against us would have drawn our attention and ruined the surprise that the reapers wanted by coming.

The ARK only holds 20,000 humans. There is no guarantee that they will even make it--or if they do, that they will survive. And with such a low number, I still don't think the reapers would even care. Their focus seems to be the Milky Way galaxy.

The things that "got through": were a broken beacon here, a dozen scientists there, blueprints squirreled away in an underground archive, some cuttlefish crashing on Spongebob's couch. Hints, bits and pieces of tech, clues that might interest archaeologists, but nothing to interest the galaxy in general.

We're talking about a major project involving tech that would allow the MW to escape the Reaper trap. Possibly as many as a hundred thousand colonists can escape the Reaper harvest, establish new homeworlds, and continue growing and developing outside the Reaper cycles. This is something that could defeat the very purpose of the cycles. They'd be all over something like this to make sure it didn't happen.

For such a "major" project, it sure is taking only a handful of the populations with it--and not even all of the space-faring ones at that. And again, since the reapers are focused on the Milky Way, why should they care if they even knew about it? The people are leaving the galaxy that the reapers purge.

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Andromeda Initiative briefings (6/6 Golden Worlds and Settlements) Dec 3, 2016 0:42:11 GMT

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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Dec 3, 2016 0:42:11 GMT

Dec 3, 2016 0:39:17 GMT colfoley said:

Dec 3, 2016 0:37:06 GMT Fen'Harel Faceman said:

If they didn't care about controlling the inhabitants of the Milky Way and keeping them from escape, then why did they control the inhabitants of the Milky Way and keep them from escape?

And who ever said they were only present or interested in the Milky Way? Bioware has always kept that deliberately vague. The Reapers could literally exists in thousands of galaxies if Bioware so chose, they left that wide open. The Leviathan have been in hiding for millions of years, they don't know everything the Reapers have been up to.

There is no evidence they tried to keep any previous cycles from escaping.

Except the fact that the games told us repeatedly that they wiped out any sentient race that evolved up to a certain point every 50,000 years.

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Andromeda Initiative briefings (6/6 Golden Worlds and Settlements) Dec 3, 2016 0:42:11 GMT Fen'Harel Faceman likes this

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Post by Iakus on Dec 3, 2016 0:42:11 GMT

Dec 3, 2016 0:39:22 GMT crossngen said:

Dec 3, 2016 0:36:42 GMT Iakus said:

And a synthetic apocalypse happening in a society in Andromeda that has intergalactic travel capability wouldn't worry the Reapers?

No, because if it worried them they would've done the same thing they did to the Milky way but over there as well.

It might be an advanced AI, but it has the simple designations of: "Find a way to stop synthetics overthrowing their organic masters in this galaxy, this one, not that one, this one."

Actually their designation (as defined by both the Catalyst and the Leviathans) was "preserve life at all costs" No geographical or astronomical restrictions.

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Andromeda Initiative briefings (6/6 Golden Worlds and Settlements) Dec 3, 2016 0:44:21 GMT Fen'Harel Faceman likes this

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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 3, 2016 0:44:21 GMT

Dec 3, 2016 0:41:53 GMT saberchic said:

The things that "got through": were a broken beacon here, a dozen scientists there, blueprints squirreled away in an underground archive, some cuttlefish crashing on Spongebob's couch. Hints, bits and pieces of tech, clues that might interest archaeologists, but nothing to interest the galaxy in general.

We're talking about a major project involving tech that would allow the MW to escape the Reaper trap. Possibly as many as a hundred thousand colonists can escape the Reaper harvest, establish new homeworlds, and continue growing and developing outside the Reaper cycles. This is something that could defeat the very purpose of the cycles. They'd be all over something like this to make sure it didn't happen.

For such a "major" project, it sure is taking only a handful of the populations with it--and not even all of the space-faring ones at that. And again, since the reapers are focused on the Milky Way, why should they care if they even knew about it? The people are leaving the galaxy that the reapers purge.

Not technically true. While they may not all show up in the first game, Bioware has said they have left the door open for all the Milky Way races to be a part of the project and come along. Whether some do or don't is up to Bioware, but the possibility is there, which makes sense.

Last Edit: Dec 3, 2016 0:44:49 GMT by Hanako Ikezawa

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Andromeda Initiative briefings (6/6 Golden Worlds and Settlements) Dec 3, 2016 0:46:13 GMT flyingovertrout and saberchic like this

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Post by bshep on Dec 3, 2016 0:46:13 GMT

Dec 3, 2016 0:33:04 GMT saberchic said:

They did escape actually. However, they had trouble with their stasis pods on Ilos; thus, they ended up dying out.

You can ignore the evidence in game all you want, but it's in there even if we disagree about the protheans; the other things still get through regardless. *shrug* I've stated my case, which is based on things directly from the game.

This. Ignoring facts doesn't validate your ideas, on the contrary.

The things that "got through": were a broken beacon here, a dozen scientists there, blueprints squirreled away in an underground archive, some cuttlefish crashing on Spongebob's couch. Hints, bits and pieces of tech, clues that might interest archaeologists, but nothing to interest the galaxy in general.

We're talking about a major project involving tech that would allow the MW to escape the Reaper trap. Possibly as many as a hundred thousand colonists can escape the Reaper harvest, establish new homeworlds, and continue growing and developing outside the Reaper cycles. This is something that could defeat the very purpose of the cycles. They'd be all over something like this to make sure it didn't happen.

IF everything had been according to their plans the Keepers would have opened the Citadel and the Reapers would have harvested everyone but that didn't happen. And then Sovereign second attempt also failed to achieve their objective and a few more years later they also lost their biggest assets inside the Milky Way, the Collector's, and their backdoor to the galaxy.

Reapers were powerfull but they weren't infallible. I don't see how them being unable to do something against the Andromeda Iniciative as a lore breaker. It's not like they haven't failed before like with the Crucible plans or the Leviathan hiding in Despoina.

I'm as free as the dust in the solar wind.

Iakus
N7

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,299 Likes: 50,676

Andromeda Initiative briefings (6/6 Golden Worlds and Settlements) Dec 3, 2016 0:47:55 GMT Fen'Harel Faceman likes this

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Post by Iakus on Dec 3, 2016 0:47:55 GMT

Dec 3, 2016 0:41:53 GMT saberchic said: