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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 3, 2016 0:49:53 GMT
Not technically true. While they may not all show up in the first game, Bioware has said they have left the door open for all the Milky Way races to be a part of the project and come along. Whether some do or don't is up to Bioware, but the possibility is there, which makes sense. My point still stands. This maiden voyage is still not taking every species with it; it's only a super small number of select populations. Again, not quite true. Potentially it is taking every species with it. We may just not see some of them in the first game and instead they appear starting with DLC or sequels, but those will have come with us.
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Post by bshep on Dec 3, 2016 0:52:25 GMT
My point still stands. This maiden voyage is still not taking every species with it; it's only a super small number of select populations. Again, not quite true. Potentially it is taking every species with it. We may just not see some of them in the first game and instead they appear starting with DLC or sequels, but those will have come with us. Yes. Mac stated something along those lines on one of those gameinformer articles if i am not mistaken.
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Post by saberchic on Dec 3, 2016 0:52:31 GMT
For such a "major" project, it sure is taking only a handful of the populations with it--and not even all of the space-faring ones at that. And again, since the reapers are focused on the Milky Way, why should they care if they even knew about it? The people are leaving the galaxy that the reapers purge. Each ark still has the population of a good-sized town, and I imagine the Nexus has a similar population. That's pretty major. And again, if they establish colonies, they will continue to grow, develop, and, to the Reapers' minds, develop synthetic life. Which will "inevitably" revolt, kill them all, and quite likely come back to the Milky Way and kill everyone there. Even assuming the Reapers are only interested in in the MW, that is something that should concern them. That is a lot of assumptions.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 3, 2016 0:53:43 GMT
They did escape actually. However, they had trouble with their stasis pods on Ilos; thus, they ended up dying out. You can ignore the evidence in game all you want, but it's in there even if we disagree about the protheans; the other things still get through regardless. *shrug* I've stated my case, which is based on things directly from the game. This. Ignoring facts doesn't validate your ideas, on the contrary. The things that "got through": were a broken beacon here, a dozen scientists there, blueprints squirreled away in an underground archive, some cuttlefish crashing on Spongebob's couch. Hints, bits and pieces of tech, clues that might interest archaeologists, but nothing to interest the galaxy in general. We're talking about a major project involving tech that would allow the MW to escape the Reaper trap. Possibly as many as a hundred thousand colonists can escape the Reaper harvest, establish new homeworlds, and continue growing and developing outside the Reaper cycles. This is something that could defeat the very purpose of the cycles. They'd be all over something like this to make sure it didn't happen. IF everything had been according to their plans the Keepers would have opened the Citadel and the Reapers would have harvested everyone but that didn't happen. And then Sovereign second attempt also failed to achieve their objective and a few more years later they also lost their biggest assets inside the Milky Way, the Collector's, and their backdoor to the galaxy. Reapers were powerfull but they weren't infallible. I don't see how them being unable to do something against the Andromeda Iniciative as a lore breaker. It's not like they haven't failed before like with the Crucible plans or the Leviathan hiding in Despoina. As Almostfaceman pointed out, they didn't escape. So many Protheans died there weren't enough to sustain the race. The Reapers won. At best, they got a Refusal Ending. Keep in mind also, The Shepard ( ) isn't going on this trip. And the Andromeda Initiative is not a secret set of blueprints hidden in an underground bunker. Nor an underwater habitat hidden off the grid. This is five massive star ships using tech that can break dependence on the relay network the Reapers so carefully cultivated. This isn't a dozen Protheans hiding underground, this is tens of thousands of colonists fleeing the trap.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 3, 2016 0:54:54 GMT
Each ark still has the population of a good-sized town, and I imagine the Nexus has a similar population. That's pretty major. And again, if they establish colonies, they will continue to grow, develop, and, to the Reapers' minds, develop synthetic life. Which will "inevitably" revolt, kill them all, and quite likely come back to the Milky Way and kill everyone there. Even assuming the Reapers are only interested in in the MW, that is something that should concern them. That is a lot of assumptions. Only on the Reapers' part. The Catalyst explains this all to Shepard.
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Post by bshep on Dec 3, 2016 0:55:07 GMT
Each ark still has the population of a good-sized town, and I imagine the Nexus has a similar population. That's pretty major. And again, if they establish colonies, they will continue to grow, develop, and, to the Reapers' minds, develop synthetic life. Which will "inevitably" revolt, kill them all, and quite likely come back to the Milky Way and kill everyone there. Even assuming the Reapers are only interested in in the MW, that is something that should concern them. That is a lot of assumptions. Specially considering that the Reapers are either destroyed, controlled or merged with everyone else by the end of Mass Effect 3.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 3, 2016 0:56:08 GMT
Again, not quite true. Potentially it is taking every species with it. We may just not see some of them in the first game and instead they appear starting with DLC or sequels, but those will have come with us. Yes. Mac stated something along those lines on one of those gameinformer articles if i am not mistaken. It was the 22 Random Tidbits About Mass Effect: Andromeda article. 8. Not all of the races from the original trilogy appear in Andromeda, but they may show up in future installments. “We’ve designed the IP in such a way that they can all show up,” Walters says. “For hopefully obvious reasons, they’re not all going to show up in the first game.”
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Post by bshep on Dec 3, 2016 0:57:01 GMT
This. Ignoring facts doesn't validate your ideas, on the contrary. IF everything had been according to their plans the Keepers would have opened the Citadel and the Reapers would have harvested everyone but that didn't happen. And then Sovereign second attempt also failed to achieve their objective and a few more years later they also lost their biggest assets inside the Milky Way, the Collector's, and their backdoor to the galaxy. Reapers were powerfull but they weren't infallible. I don't see how them being unable to do something against the Andromeda Iniciative as a lore breaker. It's not like they haven't failed before like with the Crucible plans or the Leviathan hiding in Despoina. As Almostfaceman pointed out, they didn't escape. So many Protheans died there weren't enough to sustain the race. The Reapers won. At best, they got a Refusal Ending. Keep in mind also, The Shepard ( ) isn't going on this trip. And the Andromeda Initiative is not a secret set of blueprints hidden in an underground bunker. Nor an underwater habitat hidden off the grid. This is five massive star ships using tech that can break dependence on the relay network the Reapers so carefully cultivated. This isn't a dozen Protheans hiding underground, this is tens of thousands of colonists fleeing the trap. And as i said in the same post you quoted the Reapers can't do nothing until they arrive in the galaxy and by that time the Arks are long gone.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Dec 3, 2016 0:58:35 GMT
That is a lot of assumptions. Specially considering that the Reapers are either destroyed, controlled or merged with everyone else by the end of Mass Effect 3. We're talking about the Reaper mind set during the planning and launch of this Nexus project, not to the Reaper mindset after the end of ME3.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 3, 2016 1:00:44 GMT
Specially considering that the Reapers are either destroyed, controlled or merged with everyone else by the end of Mass Effect 3. We're talking about the Reaper mind set during the planning and launch of this Nexus project, not to the Reaper mindset after the end of ME3. Which as has been stated they could not have done anything about that at that point anyways.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Dec 3, 2016 1:03:15 GMT
We're talking about the Reaper mind set during the planning and launch of this Nexus project, not to the Reaper mindset after the end of ME3. Which as has been stated they could not have done anything about that at that point anyways. And that's been soundly refuted. They had indoctrinated agents, Collectors, geth, Sovereign. The Reapers always had methods of control in place to ensure they snagged the species at a certain point in their development, even without the legions presence.
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Post by bshep on Dec 3, 2016 1:05:00 GMT
Specially considering that the Reapers are either destroyed, controlled or merged with everyone else by the end of Mass Effect 3. We're talking about the Reaper mind set during the planning and launch of this Nexus project, not to the Reaper mindset after the end of ME3. But by that timing they either didn't have any more assets or sovereign was in hiding planing his taking of the Citadel using Saren. To much especulation from my part, but who knows maybe Sovereign was also counting on succeding on his backup plan to stop the the AI.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 3, 2016 1:05:42 GMT
Which as has been stated they could not have done anything about that at that point anyways. And that's been soundly refuted. They had indoctrinated agents, Collectors, geth, Sovereign. The Reapers always had methods of control in place to ensure they snagged the species at a certain point in their development, even without the legions presence. Well I would say it has been refuted, don't know if soundly is the word I'd use though. At the best they could have done some sabatage with one of their indoctrinated agents.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 3, 2016 1:07:00 GMT
As Almostfaceman pointed out, they didn't escape. So many Protheans died there weren't enough to sustain the race. The Reapers won. At best, they got a Refusal Ending. Keep in mind also, The Shepard ( ) isn't going on this trip. And the Andromeda Initiative is not a secret set of blueprints hidden in an underground bunker. Nor an underwater habitat hidden off the grid. This is five massive star ships using tech that can break dependence on the relay network the Reapers so carefully cultivated. This isn't a dozen Protheans hiding underground, this is tens of thousands of colonists fleeing the trap. And as i said in the same post you quoted the Reapers can't do nothing until they arrive in the galaxy and by that time the Arks are long gone. Sovereign had Saren, a Spectre, and Benezia, a respected asari matriarch. All sorts of hilarious hijinks could ensue with that kind of access.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 3, 2016 1:07:57 GMT
And that's been soundly refuted. They had indoctrinated agents, Collectors, geth, Sovereign. The Reapers always had methods of control in place to ensure they snagged the species at a certain point in their development, even without the legions presence. Well I would say it has been refuted, don't know if soundly is the word I'd use though. At the best they could have done some sabatage with one of their indoctrinated agents. They'd just need to buy a couple of years.
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Post by crossngen on Dec 3, 2016 1:12:14 GMT
Which as has been stated they could not have done anything about that at that point anyways. And that's been soundly refuted. They had indoctrinated agents, Collectors, geth, Sovereign. The Reapers always had methods of control in place to ensure they snagged the species at a certain point in their development, even without the legions presence. They wouldn't need to control the project even if they had an agent inside, because they would know that the project wouldn't be done by the time the citadel would've inserted the Reaper fleet into our galaxy.
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Post by bshep on Dec 3, 2016 1:13:10 GMT
And if he had played his hand to soon everyone else would be alerted about his presence and no amount of collectors and geth heretics ships would save him from the might of a united galaxy.
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Post by bshep on Dec 3, 2016 1:15:01 GMT
And that's been soundly refuted. They had indoctrinated agents, Collectors, geth, Sovereign. The Reapers always had methods of control in place to ensure they snagged the species at a certain point in their development, even without the legions presence. They wouldn't need to control the project even if they had an agent inside, because they would know that the project wouldn't be done by the time the citadel would've inserted the Reaper fleet into our galaxy. This. But then comes Shepard to save the day and bye bye reaper's plans.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 3, 2016 1:16:17 GMT
And if he had played his hand to soon everyone else would be alerted about his presence and no amount of collectors and geth heretics ships would save him from the might of a united galaxy. Then the fleet of tens of thousands of Reapers flies in from space and pwns everyone anyway. Seriously, with a fleet that size, why were the Reapers bothering to play it sneaky anyway?
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Post by crossngen on Dec 3, 2016 1:17:14 GMT
They wouldn't need to control the project even if they had an agent inside, because they would know that the project wouldn't be done by the time the citadel would've inserted the Reaper fleet into our galaxy. This. But then comes Shepard to save the day and bye bye reaper's plans. Not even that, considering the invasion was supposed to start way before the events of ME1 we can also assume that Sovereign dropped all of his other interests(may they be the Rachni, the AI or whatever else) to somehow gain access to the citadel manually.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Dec 3, 2016 1:18:15 GMT
And that's been soundly refuted. They had indoctrinated agents, Collectors, geth, Sovereign. The Reapers always had methods of control in place to ensure they snagged the species at a certain point in their development, even without the legions presence. They wouldn't need to control the project even if they had an agent inside, because they would know that the project wouldn't be done by the time the citadel would've inserted the Reaper fleet into our galaxy. That's making an assumption that the Reapers wouldn't plan for failure when it would be so easy to plan for failure. Nobody was really aware of indoctrination on any wide spread scale, it would have been near impossible to prevent or detect for most of the galaxies inhabitants and organizations.
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Post by crossngen on Dec 3, 2016 1:19:49 GMT
They wouldn't need to control the project even if they had an agent inside, because they would know that the project wouldn't be done by the time the citadel would've inserted the Reaper fleet into our galaxy. That's making an assumption that the Reapers wouldn't plan for failure when it would be so easy to plan for failure. Nobody was really aware of indoctrination on any wide spread scale, it would have been near impossible to prevent or detect for most of the galaxies inhabitants and organizations. Considering ME1 we can already assume that no, the Reapers didn't plan for failure.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Dec 3, 2016 1:19:57 GMT
This. But then comes Shepard to save the day and bye bye reaper's plans. we can also assume that Sovereign dropped all of his other interests(may they be the Rachni, the AI or whatever else) to somehow gain access to the citadel manually. There's absolutely no reason to make that assumption. Reapers did not have to be physically present to utilize and plant indoctrinated organisms.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Dec 3, 2016 1:20:43 GMT
That's making an assumption that the Reapers wouldn't plan for failure when it would be so easy to plan for failure. Nobody was really aware of indoctrination on any wide spread scale, it would have been near impossible to prevent or detect for most of the galaxies inhabitants and organizations. Considering ME1 we can already assume that no, the Reapers didn't plan for failure. Considering ME2 and ME3, yeah they did. If it weren't for the literal deus ex machina at the end of ME3, they'd have won.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 3, 2016 1:21:48 GMT
we can also assume that Sovereign dropped all of his other interests(may they be the Rachni, the AI or whatever else) to somehow gain access to the citadel manually. There's absolutely no reason to make that assumption. Reapers did not have to be physically present to utilize and plant indoctrinated organisms. In this case bshep outlined if he did have an agent on the inside he wouldn't have used it for sabatage because he was trying to open the citadel.
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