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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2016 11:48:46 GMT
Romances shouldn't be playersexual... Making every NPC/companions bisexual to cater for both genders would feel very unnatural and Mac Walters said they want romances to be lot more credible now and having everyone as bisexual is - well - simply not credible. To be fair, not even having one third of characters be bi/homosexual is credible, and we had that in most BW games after ME1... Yes, they should include a few bi- characters, but also should watch out to pick the right characters... I still laugh my ass off when I think they made Kaidan bi-... ridiculous... just ridiculous.... |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2016 14:13:12 GMT
Well will see as a hetero I hope for Cora, Vetra and maybe PeeBee to be available (even as bi) although I get the feeling the asari is lesbian.
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Post by Kantr on Dec 5, 2016 14:45:40 GMT
This is the part of the romance subplots that I find so annoying: the fans. I'm glad that the writers are being allowed to simply write their characters, without the overriding command, "Oh, by the way, your character must be Ryder-sexual, no matter what." That type of interference destroys realistic characters and verisimilitude in the world, just for the sake of including a few extra romance scenes. Imagine Dorian Pavus as a player-sexual character. David Gaider would've had to completely scrap his personal storyline for Dorian (in a theoretical circumstance in which someone could've dictated to Gaider how Dorian's story be told). What if Cullen had to be made available for all Inquisitors? No big deal? I think it chips away at his personality. How weird would it be if Solas got down with non-elves? Inexplicably bizarre! Letting writers give their characters real personalities, complete with preferences, makes them feel alive. People should embrace this as quality story-telling instead of pouting about how they've been cheated out of a digital romance with their desired target. If you want to experience that character's romance arc so much, stop self-inserting and play a Ryder more to that character's liking. Well said and I do tend to agree. I generally favor player sexuality but that's more because the fanbase is out of control with their demands of every conceivable sexuality and taste represented in game...the infamous 2/2/1/1 or whatever it is. If each group has to be represented equally even if they represent a lesser percentage of the people purchasing, then I'd rather see a player sexuality mechanic that still allows for a refined core game. Either that or return to the days when relationships were more implicit than explicit. Most fans are always demanding them be player sexual. Why shouldn't Bioware make an effort to represent people who are homosexual, Bisexual or some variant along it? As Element Zero said, Dorian had a really interesting story arc precisely because he's not player sexual. |
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Post by thedarkprince on Dec 5, 2016 14:46:45 GMT
Sorry I'm not sure I get it..........but saying that romances aren't gender specific and then telling that it will depend on whether you pick Scott or Sara (male and female), it IS actually saying that the romances are gender gated. Could you please clarify? Basically. Sounds like a fancy way of saying romances are gender gated, since Sarah is female and has her own options, and Scott is male and has his own. |
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 5, 2016 14:54:51 GMT
Romances shouldn't be playersexual... Making every NPC/companions bisexual to cater for both genders would feel very unnatural and Mac Walters said they want romances to be lot more credible now and having everyone as bisexual is - well - simply not credible. To be fair, not even having one third of characters be bi/homosexual is credible, and we had that in most BW games after ME1... This is a bit inaccurate. You're talking about characters, but what what you're referring to is love interests. The majority of the supporting cast in Bioware games are still straight. It's just that those who might be interested in the MC are a more even split. |
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Post by Mir Aven on Dec 5, 2016 15:23:27 GMT
I wonder if BioWare is going to do what they did for DA:I (on twitter this time) and straight up announce the romanceable crew and squad, etc. Or announce the number of romances in game and the orientations and such. I hope they do because I get sick of hearing, each time a new character/crew is announced, "I hope he/she is straight", "I hope he/she is bi" "I hope he/she is gay" which inevitably leads to arguments and contention about what is fair and not fair, or which character should be this or that, etc. Just announce it and get it over with before they get inundated with those questions to the point of nervous breakdown. I kind of hate those early announcements. I like to learn about characters as I meet them. That's generally why I skip the pre-release, though. I'll disappear, at some point. I know some people like to micromanage and plan out there initial playthrough, but I don't get it. You know it's going to suck, right, because you'll be learning the ropes? You're also going to play the game more than once, I hope. Why spoil that "first contact" just to plan your virtual love interest? Yes, but the longer they wait with the reveal the more expectations will grow, and with them the amount of the threads of the kind you mentioned. So wouldn't it be better to just get it over with? Maybe then when the games comes out we could focus on other things, like the story (yeah, I wish  ). |
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Post by warbaby2 on Dec 5, 2016 15:31:46 GMT
To be fair, not even having one third of characters be bi/homosexual is credible, and we had that in most BW games after ME1... This is a bit inaccurate. You're talking about characters, but what what you're referring to is love interests. The majority of the supporting cast in Bioware games are still straight. It's just that those who might be interested in the MC are a more even split. While that's true, I was revering to LI's only, since that's the preservative group discussed here... should've been more clear, I guess. |
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 5, 2016 15:36:33 GMT
This is a bit inaccurate. You're talking about characters, but what what you're referring to is love interests. The majority of the supporting cast in Bioware games are still straight. It's just that those who might be interested in the MC are a more even split. While that's true, I was revering to LI's only, since that's the preservative group discussed here... should've been more clear, I guess. I know you were probably referring to LI, but if we're talking about credibility, I think we have to consider the full cast and not just the LI. We can discuss or believable it is that the number of characters that might be interested in Ryder is split more even, but that alone isn't a rapresentation of the whole setting. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2016 15:40:41 GMT
To be fair, not even having one third of characters be bi/homosexual is credible, and we had that in most BW games after ME1... Yes, they should include a few bi- characters, but also should watch out to pick the right characters... I still laugh my ass off when I think they made Kaidan bi-... ridiculous... just ridiculous.... "right characters" wtf is that supposed to mean? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2016 15:42:46 GMT
Yes, they should include a few bi- characters, but also should watch out to pick the right characters... I still laugh my ass off when I think they made Kaidan bi-... ridiculous... just ridiculous.... "right characters" wtf is that supposed to mean? It means characters which do not exibit any tendencies of having different orientation throughout a large portion of gameplay should not all of a sudden - magically - be made bisexual or homosexual. Really... for instance, you first check out chicks on Nexus with your bro and then after 100 hrs of gameplay, without any kind of interactions between Ryder and that male bro character, that other dude wants to jump into bed with maleRyder. (Kaidan, cough*) |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2016 15:45:13 GMT
Than an NPC is bisexual is not immediately obvious to the PC though. It is a meta-gaming knowledge from at least 2 play-through. Overall, I would prefer player-sexual NPCs to doing the research, and creating a protagonist tailored to romancing a specific NPC and playing the whole game again for a romance. On the other hand it may create an odd impression that everyone in the verse is smitten by the PC. MET actually felt more natural in that respect than, say, KOTOR2. So, they can do it, and I hope they would continue it in the same vein.
So far, I do not see a male NPC that looks like a romantic interest that appeals to me, so I will be looking at bisexual or lesbian options for a female Ryder, I suppose. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2016 15:51:13 GMT
"right characters" wtf is that supposed to mean? It means characters which do not exibit any tendencies of having different orientation throughout a large portion of gameplay should not all of a sudden - magically - be made bisexual or homosexual. Really... for instance, you first check out chicks on Nexus with your bro and then after 100 hrs of gameplay, without any kind of interactions between Ryder and that male bro character, that other dude wants to jump into bed with maleRyder. (Kaidan, cough*) people don't usually pop up and go, 'hey dude, just for the record, i'm gay.' i don't think characters not speaking about their sexuality should mean it's not real... and i don't get the problem with kaidan being bi in me3. it just shows that later in life he discovered he liked men. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2016 15:52:50 GMT
hope they're gonna polish up the dialogue before release because damn fem ryders spat dialogue? like a petulant child. Someone give her a slap.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2016 15:55:32 GMT
It means characters which do not exibit any tendencies of having different orientation throughout a large portion of gameplay should not all of a sudden - magically - be made bisexual or homosexual. Really... for instance, you first check out chicks on Nexus with your bro and then after 100 hrs of gameplay, without any kind of interactions between Ryder and that male bro character, that other dude wants to jump into bed with maleRyder. (Kaidan, cough*) people don't usually pop up and go, 'hey dude, just for the record, i'm gay.' i don't think characters not speaking about their sexuality should mean it's not real... and i don't get the problem with kaidan being bi in me3. it just shows that later in life he discovered he liked men. Or, maybe, burying Shepard, and the drama of the ME2 made him realize that he is in love with one particular person, and that happens to be Shepard. Shepard is after all written as an individual whose charisma transcends a hell of a lot more boundaries than human sexuality. Add to that a brink of the Apocalypse setting, the whole now or never makes every kind of sense. |
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Post by CrutchCricket on Dec 5, 2016 15:58:09 GMT
Moved to romance board.
Also, I don't get it.
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Post by warbaby2 on Dec 5, 2016 16:25:49 GMT
It means characters which do not exibit any tendencies of having different orientation throughout a large portion of gameplay should not all of a sudden - magically - be made bisexual or homosexual. Really... for instance, you first check out chicks on Nexus with your bro and then after 100 hrs of gameplay, without any kind of interactions between Ryder and that male bro character, that other dude wants to jump into bed with maleRyder. (Kaidan, cough*) people don't usually pop up and go, 'hey dude, just for the record, i'm gay.' i don't think characters not speaking about their sexuality should mean it's not real... and i don't get the problem with kaidan being bi in me3. it just shows that later in life he discovered he liked men. Very possible, but still: It think that's where meta knowledge comes in that inevitably skews perception... players know that Kaiden wasn't bisexual in ME1, so of course it feels strange that he "suddenly" is in ME3. I don't think it was that badly reflected in the actual game, but that's the problem with "player sexual" characters. Seen from another angle (ie. another playthrough) they aren't the same characters anymore. |
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Post by maximusarael020 on Dec 5, 2016 18:40:32 GMT
Here is the Twitter response in question. <img src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/bbcode/twitter-preview.png" tweet_id="
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Dec 5, 2016 19:28:01 GMT
To be fair, not even having one third of characters be bi/homosexual is credible, and we had that in most BW games after ME1... Yes, they should include a few bi- characters, but also should watch out to pick the right characters... I still laugh my ass off when I think they made Kaidan bi-... ridiculous... just ridiculous.... Except it wasn't ridiculous and made perfect sense considering the context. In fact I'd argue the same-sex romance with Kaidan is one of the most natural romances in the game, after Liara and arguably Miranda, for a male Shepard. |
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Post by Catilina on Dec 5, 2016 19:42:54 GMT
To be fair, not even having one third of characters be bi/homosexual is credible, and we had that in most BW games after ME1... Yes, they should include a few bi- characters, but also should watch out to pick the right characters... I still laugh my ass off when I think they made Kaidan bi-... ridiculous... just ridiculous.... Not again please this shit. I can imagine, that so much people think that was a lame solution, but I just was happy with Kaidan; I wanted this romance from the first part of ME. And his first romance scene in Citadel was good, I liked it. |
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Dec 5, 2016 20:24:55 GMT
*sigh* and of course the first comments to his tweet is...
Fan: "So no bisexuals?"
Mac: "There are bisexuals"
Other fan: "What about the pansexuals or the asexual people?"
Kudos to BioWare for even attempting to be inclusive. They've opened the floodgates and we won't stop before their games literally become romance simulators with nothing else to them.
Regarding Kaidan, whether or not it was an act of calming people down, Luke Kristjansson said he always thought of Kaidan as being bisexual, so he was fine with them making that an option in ME3. Actually the issue was still more that BioWare officially labeled Shepard straight with ME1, but then people took offense since Femshep got Liara which is essentially bisexual (I know that's how they thrive as asari but c'mon) and it felt like Male Shepard was being dominated by straight while men and all that crap so they changed him specifically for ME3 and that's why Kaidan opens up to you; because Shepard is not obviously straight in that game (apparently)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2016 20:36:57 GMT
*sigh* and of course the first comments to his tweet is... Fan: "So no bisexuals?" Mac: "There are bisexuals" Other fan: "What about the pansexuals or the asexual people?" Kudos to BioWare for even attempting to be inclusive. They've opened the floodgates and we won't stop before their games literally become romance simulators with nothing else to them. Regarding Kaidan, whether or not it was an act of calming people down, Luke Kristjansson said he always thought of Kaidan as being bisexual, so he was fine with them making that an option in ME3. Actually the issue was still more that BioWare officially labeled Shepard straight with ME1, but then people took offense since Femshep got Liara which is essentially bisexual (I know that's how they thrive as asari but c'mon) and it felt like Male Shepard was being dominated by straight while men and all that crap so they changed him specifically for ME3 and that's why Kaidan opens up to you; because Shepard is not obviously straight in that game (apparently) FemShep also got Kelly Chambers in ME2. And apparently Thane was supposed to be Bi and that was scrapped. |
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Dec 5, 2016 20:40:04 GMT
*sigh* and of course the first comments to his tweet is... Fan: "So no bisexuals?" Mac: "There are bisexuals" Other fan: "What about the pansexuals or the asexual people?" Kudos to BioWare for even attempting to be inclusive. They've opened the floodgates and we won't stop before their games literally become romance simulators with nothing else to them. I'd normally agree that people take it a little too far for a game which does not revolve around romances. However in this case I think both are fair and reasonable questions. With pansexuality, it's regarding the PC's ability to initiate a romance with aliens (which don't have to be male or female but probably will be). With asexuality, it's about whether the PC can romance someone without sexual encounters. |
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Dec 5, 2016 20:43:30 GMT
Yes, but the asexuals don't accept romance that also has sex. They specifically want a character that says "I love you" and they kiss but no sex and no sex for the straight or other-sexual peopel that romance them. The inclusivity by exclusive romance options is just too much and a never-ending mess. The more minorities you include, the more and smaller minorities will pop up and demand respect too and BioWare just gobbles it up and starts bending over backwards for it becuase these are the primary people that even want to show up at their cons and the only people who doesn't criticise them for their actual narrative failings or gameplay faults.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2016 21:07:29 GMT
Yes, but the asexuals don't accept romance that also has sex. They specifically want a character that says "I love you" and they kiss but no sex and no sex for the straight or other-sexual peopel that romance them. The inclusivity by exclusive romance options is just too much and a never-ending mess. The more minorities you include, the more and smaller minorities will pop up and demand respect too and BioWare just gobbles it up and starts bending over backwards for it becuase these are the primary people that even want to show up at their cons and the only people who doesn't criticise them for their actual narrative failings or gameplay faults. you can have a romance that's gives the option to have a sex scene or not, and it'll work. but even if the character you romance is asexual, i don't think not seeing a sex scene in a video game relationship is that much of a deal breaker haha |
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 5, 2016 21:22:23 GMT
Yes, but the asexuals don't accept romance that also has sex. They specifically want a character that says "I love you" and they kiss but no sex and no sex for the straight or other-sexual peopel that romance them. The inclusivity by exclusive romance options is just too much and a never-ending mess. The more minorities you include, the more and smaller minorities will pop up and demand respect too and BioWare just gobbles it up and starts bending over backwards for it becuase these are the primary people that even want to show up at their cons and the only people who doesn't criticise them for their actual narrative failings or gameplay faults. you can have a romance that's gives the option to have a sex scene or not, and it'll work. but even if the character you romance is asexual, i don't think not seeing a sex scene in a video game relationship is that much of a deal breaker haha I think Link"Guess"ski 's point is more about the aknowledgement of a relationship being physical then the actual sex scene being seen in the game. |
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