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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Dec 24, 2016 1:43:53 GMT
So wait...if you can basically swap class at will wtf is the point of having a team???
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Post by goishen on Dec 24, 2016 1:46:00 GMT
Well I thought that the no-restrictions things was going to be just more about combining powers as you will, this profiles thing sounds less apealing to me... I'm not really interested in switching between adept or infiltrator "load outs", sounds a bit like we're headed to a PC that will be able to do just anything once we get a high level or am I understanding it wrong? I hope at least that there's no real need to switch between profiles and that you can actually choose to play the whole game as more of a pure infitrator, soldier or whatever if you want to I just hope and pray to god that it's not mandatory for you to do so. In other words, blow through the entire game as a biotic and then have to switch to the engineering spec to crush the 100 guys beneath a door or something. It's either that or spend the next half an hour fighting them off as a biotic. Same way with the infiltrator. You could just blast your way through them as a vanguard, but that would take about an hour. Or, you could switch to infiltrator mode and have the entire mission take about two minutes. I pray that it's not like that.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 24, 2016 1:53:44 GMT
Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions here, or putting 1 & 1 together & coming out with 1,000,000, but from what I'm garnering from the 'profile swap' is that basically, like DA:I the squad AI is shit & you'll have to do everything yourself, made much worse by not being able to give orders to the squad members. As in the Gameplay trailer we do just see the other guys running around doing who-knows-what & there was that rather large celebratory message for scoring a tech-combo...but I don't know for sure, hopefully this'll get explained in more detail in the new year. Just my thoughts. So yet more "streamlining"?
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Post by Thrombin on Dec 24, 2016 1:54:57 GMT
So wait...if you can basically swap class at will wtf is the point of having a team??? If you need tech skills you take a team with tech skills and switch to a tech profile. If you need biotics take a team of biotics. If you need combos take a team that can proc combos. I don't see any big issue here. I respec in ME3. Right now I'm playing an infiltrator. I use an anti-shield / synthetic spec for the Geth and Cerberus missions and then swap those out to concentrate on skills better suited to Reapers for the rest. You do it via the sick bay so there's clearly designed to be an in-game logic behind that too. Very probably a case of re-programming your implants.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2016 1:55:43 GMT
Quick question: For those worried about the respeccing of your characters, especially on the lines of your character has magically 'forgotten' a skill they once used, how can you justify respeccing in every game ever? Mass Effect, Dragon Age, the Witcher, are all RPGs which have the ability to respec in them? I've never done it. My canon Shepard was the same class from ME1 to ME3, and since he was a non-biotic, I didn't give him biotic bonus powers. That said, the Lazarus Project does work as story justification for a respec. It wouldn't be far-fetched for Cerberus to give a soldier Shepard biotics after resurrecting him or her, for instance. What this game is doing sounds a bit different however than just providing an ability to reboot your character. He or she is going to be able to class-swap repeatedly mid-mission, and it does sound as if it is going to be something within the story rather than just gameplay customization. If it is tied to the story and isn't just an unexplained gameplay feature, it does seem a bit odd that a character who was once a biotic, no longer can use biotics once they start playing with a combat drone. The only way I could see that working is if Ryder is some sort of cyborg, and any abilities he or she has is tied solely to cybernetics and whatever mods are plugged in.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Dec 24, 2016 1:56:48 GMT
Also....if I start the game as a soldier how the fuckety fuck is my Ryder going to just LEARN to be a Biotic user? No training, no implants, no stint in Grissom academy? Really? How is that when these guys left before L5 implants were even introduced (assuming L5 implants make learning to be a biotic somehow less dangerous or straining).
Come on I get separation of lore and gameplay and I even postulated some of these systems (pick and choose skills for your character for custom classes) back in 2012 (and was told it was a stupid idea btw....thanks guys) but this is just ridiculous in some respects.
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Post by Thrombin on Dec 24, 2016 1:58:00 GMT
The use of biotics in any meaningful combat way is facilitated by implants, don't forget. I have a strong feeling that Sam is either an implant or able to control them. As I recall, when you choose a class in ME you get these silhouettes pop up with different implant configurations depending on what class you wanted to be. So maybe Sam has a way of changing the configuration or switching between different implants to facilitate different types of profile. Great, so SAM knows how to remove and redistribute Praxis kits... What's a Praxis kit?
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Dec 24, 2016 1:59:14 GMT
So wait...if you can basically swap class at will wtf is the point of having a team??? If you need tech skills you take a team with tech skills and switch to a tech profile. If you need biotics take a team of biotics. If you need combos take a team that can proc combos. I don't see any big issue here. I respec in ME3. Right now I'm playing an infiltrator. I use an anti-shield / synthetic spec for the Geth and Cerberus missions and then swap those out to concentrate on skills better suited to Reapers for the rest. You do it via the sick bay so there's clearly designed to be an in-game logic behind that too. Very probably a case of re-programming your implants. yes you respec, I do not do it anymore now that I have found my "sweet spot" but you don't magically switch class tho... My point is if you can on the fly switch class then team election is pretty much moot because you can do it all. It removes a layer of complexity.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 24, 2016 1:59:32 GMT
Quick question: For those worried about the respeccing of your characters, especially on the lines of your character has magically 'forgotten' a skill they once used, how can you justify respeccing in every game ever? Mass Effect, Dragon Age, the Witcher, are all RPGs which have the ability to respec in them? I've never done it. My canon Shepard was the same class from ME1 to ME3, and since he was a non-biotic, I didn't give him biotic bonus powers. That said, the Lazarus Project does work as story justification for a respec. It wouldn't be far-fetched for Cerberus to give a soldier Shepard biotics after resurrecting him or her, for instance. What this game is doing sounds a bit different however than just providing an ability to reboot your character. He or she is going to be able to class-swap repeatedly mid-mission, and it does sound as if it is going to be something within the story rather than just gameplay customization. If it is tied to the story and isn't just an unexplained gameplay feature, it does seem a bit odd that a character who was once a biotic, no longer can use biotics once they start playing with a combat drone. The only way I could see that working is if Ryder is some sort of cyborg, and any abilities he or she has is tied solely to cybernetics and whatever mods are plugged in. But there are no classes. I mean sure there is a difference between biotic and non-biotic abilities but if one assumes that Ryder is a biotic this becomes really a moot issue. And you can use whatever abilities you want to. Your character is not going to 'forget' them per se, they are just going to decide to not use those abilities anymore in favor for other abilities.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Dec 24, 2016 1:59:55 GMT
Great, so SAM knows how to remove and redistribute Praxis kits... What's a Praxis kit? Deus Ex joke
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Post by colfoley on Dec 24, 2016 2:01:54 GMT
Great, so SAM knows how to remove and redistribute Praxis kits... What's a Praxis kit? Something from Deus Ex.
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Post by hammerstorm on Dec 24, 2016 2:02:10 GMT
Quick question: For those worried about the respeccing of your characters, especially on the lines of your character has magically 'forgotten' a skill they once used, how can you justify respeccing in every game ever? Mass Effect, Dragon Age, the Witcher, are all RPGs which have the ability to respec in them? But you respec within the same class. Take DA:I for example, you can respec, but you can't change your class. A mage can't suddenly become a warrior or vice versa. As to how you explain it, it's simple. I like to think my Inquisitor is simply learning to master new spells. In ME:A it sounds like Ryder can become any class (sorry, profile) at any time. It doesn't make sense for someone who's trained to be an Infiltrator to suddenly go around being an expert at close range biotic combat. The point is that those that are in the Pathfinder team ARE trained in biotic, which means that you have biotics from the beginning, you are just not forced to use them. So in your example, Ryde is BOTH an infiltrator and close combat biotic, (if you want) you just use different skillset at different times.
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Post by Thrombin on Dec 24, 2016 2:05:33 GMT
Also....if I start the game as a soldier how the fuckety fuck is my Ryder going to just LEARN to be a Biotic user? No training, no implants, no stint in Grissom academy? Really? How is that when these guys left before L5 implants were even introduced (assuming L5 implants make learning to be a biotic somehow less dangerous or straining). The Ryders are pathfinders. It's not just a title it's the reason they can do this. That's what has been stated previously, anyway. Presumably they are given all the necessary implants and training as part of becoming a pathfinder. They don't learn to use biotics instantly they already leraned how to use biotics. I reckon they have special implants which can be used to facilitate biotic or tech or combat abilities through some kind of reconfiguration. Or maybe it's done by Sam-controlled nanobots taking the place of the implants. I'm sure there are plenty of ways to explain it. Just needs a bit of imagination
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2016 2:07:41 GMT
I've never done it. My canon Shepard was the same class from ME1 to ME3, and since he was a non-biotic, I didn't give him biotic bonus powers. That said, the Lazarus Project does work as story justification for a respec. It wouldn't be far-fetched for Cerberus to give a soldier Shepard biotics after resurrecting him or her, for instance. What this game is doing sounds a bit different however than just providing an ability to reboot your character. He or she is going to be able to class-swap repeatedly mid-mission, and it does sound as if it is going to be something within the story rather than just gameplay customization. If it is tied to the story and isn't just an unexplained gameplay feature, it does seem a bit odd that a character who was once a biotic, no longer can use biotics once they start playing with a combat drone. The only way I could see that working is if Ryder is some sort of cyborg, and any abilities he or she has is tied solely to cybernetics and whatever mods are plugged in. But there are no classes. I mean sure there is a difference between biotic and non-biotic abilities but if one assumes that Ryder is a biotic this becomes really a moot issue. And you can use whatever abilities you want to. Your character is not going to 'forget' them per se, they are just going to decide to not use those abilities anymore in favor for other abilities. But why would a character choose not to use biotics, if they've got biotic amps? Not having access to singularity or warp once you break out the combat drone, is never going to make sense unless there is some sort of foundation in the story for it. I'm hoping there is some explanation in the game rather than a hand-wave. Hand-waves erode immersion.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 24, 2016 2:07:48 GMT
Of course if Thrombin is right then the outcry from fans will be "but then why wasn't this technology available during the trilogy?!"
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Post by colfoley on Dec 24, 2016 2:08:58 GMT
But there are no classes. I mean sure there is a difference between biotic and non-biotic abilities but if one assumes that Ryder is a biotic this becomes really a moot issue. And you can use whatever abilities you want to. Your character is not going to 'forget' them per se, they are just going to decide to not use those abilities anymore in favor for other abilities. But why would a character choose not to use biotics, if they've got biotic amps? Not having access to singularity or warp once you break out the combat drone, is never going to make sense unless there is some sort of foundation in the story for it. I'm hoping there is some explanation in the game rather than a hand-wave. Hand-waves erode immersion. Because (in general) biotics sucked? Except for maybe like Reave and Charge. I don't intend on touching any of the biotic powers my first two PTs anyways.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Dec 24, 2016 2:10:03 GMT
Of course if Thrombin is right then the outcry from fans will be "but then why wasn't this technology available during the trilogy?!" that was my next point And it is the reason why freaking prequel crap never works well in videogames.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 24, 2016 2:11:33 GMT
Of course if Thrombin is right then the outcry from fans will be "but then why wasn't this technology available during the trilogy?!" that was my next point And it is the reason why freaking prequel crap never works well in videogames. This isn't a prequel.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Dec 24, 2016 2:12:00 GMT
Also....if I start the game as a soldier how the fuckety fuck is my Ryder going to just LEARN to be a Biotic user? No training, no implants, no stint in Grissom academy? Really? How is that when these guys left before L5 implants were even introduced (assuming L5 implants make learning to be a biotic somehow less dangerous or straining). The Ryders are pathfinders. It's not just a title it's the reason they can do this. That's what has been stated previously, anyway. Presumably they are given all the necessary implants and training as part of becoming a pathfinder. They don't learn to use biotics instantly they already leraned how to use biotics. I reckon they have special implants which can be used to facilitate biotic or tech or combat abilities through some kind of reconfiguration. Or maybe it's done by Sam-controlled nanobots taking the place of the implants. I'm sure there are plenty of ways to explain it. Just needs a bit of imagination hummmm....ALL pathfinders are trained biotics, Tech users, and soldiers. I got it that pathfinders are exceptional individuals but pray tell...WHERE did you read this??
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Dec 24, 2016 2:12:48 GMT
that was my next point And it is the reason why freaking prequel crap never works well in videogames. This isn't a prequel. I said SPECIFICALLY prequel crap and not that this game as a whole is a prequel. The tech present in Andromeda PREDATES me3 because they left before ME2.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 24, 2016 2:15:20 GMT
I said SPECIFICALLY prequel crap and not that this game as a whole is a prequel. The tech present in Andromeda PREDATES me3 because they left before ME2. Andromeda in no way shape or form is a prequel. Regardless. Either way I could easily see them having access to some kind of protype tech to make this kind of stuff work in the first place. Kind of fits with the whole universal themes where private orgs have more advanced tech then governments.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Dec 24, 2016 2:15:36 GMT
But why would a character choose not to use biotics, if they've got biotic amps? Not having access to singularity or warp once you break out the combat drone, is never going to make sense unless there is some sort of foundation in the story for it. I'm hoping there is some explanation in the game rather than a hand-wave. Hand-waves erode immersion. Because (in general) biotics sucked? Except for maybe like Reave and Charge. I don't intend on touching any of the biotic powers my first two PTs anyways. shock wave? Especially if upgraded...mass lift/pull? But seriously...even without mechanics specifically LOSING those abilities because you are hacking something is quite idiotic.
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Post by Thrombin on Dec 24, 2016 2:17:01 GMT
Of course if Thrombin is right then the outcry from fans will be "but then why wasn't this technology available during the trilogy?!" Why weren't jet packs in the previous games? Why weren't the scanner Ryder uses? Why weren't omni-blades in ME1 when they were in ME3? If you take the approach that you can't have anything not in the previous game because "why wasn't it in the previous game?" then you'll never improve on the game! It's way too limiting. Game play is far more important than such a minor consideration. They can probably come up with a reason. If they don't then I'm sure I can manage to think of one. At some point you've got to go with the flow!
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Dec 24, 2016 2:18:10 GMT
I said SPECIFICALLY prequel crap and not that this game as a whole is a prequel. The tech present in Andromeda PREDATES me3 because they left before ME2. Andromeda in no way shape or form is a prequel. Regardless. Either way I could easily see them having access to some kind of protype tech to make this kind of stuff work in the first place. Kind of fits with the whole universal themes where private orgs have more advanced tech then governments. prototype tech that was not busted out years later for the war that sees the fate of trillions upon trillions of people in the balance? The kind of prototype tech that is mentioned AD NUSEUM in ME3 nearly every time you get a war asset? COME ON!
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Post by colfoley on Dec 24, 2016 2:18:45 GMT
Of course if Thrombin is right then the outcry from fans will be "but then why wasn't this technology available during the trilogy?!" Why weren't jet packs in the previous games? Why weren't the scanner Ryder uses? Why weren't omni-blades in ME1 when they were in ME3? If you take the approach that you can't have anything not in the previous game because "why wasn't it in the previous game?" then you'll never improve on the game! It's way too limiting. Game play is far more important than such a minor consideration. They can probably come up with a reason. If they don't then I'm sure I can manage to think of one. At some point you've got to go with the flow! Oh I quite agree (for the most part) but given the out and out essays I have read on the topics of the ODSY drives I am merely preparing myself for the fact.
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