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Post by Saboru on Dec 23, 2016 23:41:11 GMT
It's weird to read this after just having played the Asteroid X57 DLC on Mass Effect 1 and choosing not to fight Balak so people could survive, instead of letting him blow everyone up just so I could kill him. Having recently played it too, that does only happen after you've slaughtered batarians by the bucketful. I wouldn't call it diplomacy so much as the option to only kill nearly everyone, not absolutely everyone. There's plenty of missions with options to reduce the death toll, but not combat free ones.
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Post by Saboru on Dec 23, 2016 23:51:38 GMT
I tell a lie, I think you can sort out the biotic commune one without killing anyone. I don't recall blasting any mooks standing outside the stronghold map. Still, I'd call that the exception that proves the rule rather than a solid gameplay feature.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 23, 2016 23:53:01 GMT
*´¨) ¸.•´¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨) (¸.•´ (¸.•` ¤ Mass Effect Andromeda
**There may be spoiler ahoy in the interview. ** Mike said: 1- Brought back many of the systems we had not done like crafting and elements of progression. 2- Sara and Scott will react differently to situations or people because of their own personalities. 3- Same story for both of them but writers gave them different responses. Not sure I like the sounds of it. Sounds like established personalities for protagonists rather than player getting a say into characterising them. getting prepared for reams of characterised auto-dialogue. What do you think this is, a role-playing game?
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Post by peebee on Dec 23, 2016 23:54:05 GMT
It's weird to read this after just having played the Asteroid X57 DLC on Mass Effect 1 and choosing not to fight Balak so people could survive, instead of letting him blow everyone up just so I could kill him. I have seen that there seem to be many people that see that comment as if he said: "there will only be fighting and that is all we have done on ME". I took it more that he meant that the fighting is in the majority of missions. I would be really surprised if there isn't any missions that can be solved without killing. Just like in OT the bigger part of the game WAS shoot the bad guy. That didn't mean that was all there was. It's weird to read this after just having played the Asteroid X57 DLC on Mass Effect 1 and choosing not to fight Balak so people could survive, instead of letting him blow everyone up just so I could kill him. Having recently played it too, that does only happen after you've slaughtered batarians by the bucketful. I wouldn't call it diplomacy so much as the option to only kill nearly everyone, not absolutely everyone. There's plenty of missions with options to reduce the death toll, but not combat free ones. I understand guys, but even so, he should've phrased it differently then. The way he says it makes it sound like we are forced to choose combat no matter the circumstance, and that isn't aways true in Mass Effect... I'm a bit suspicious of that statement though (maybe he understood the question differently than I did?), cause in the gameplay trailer, we can try to negotiate in a more peaceful manner with Sloan Kelly (at least that's what the choices make me believe), that is already a form of diplomacy for me (BUT I dunno the consequences of either so it doesn't count for much).
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Post by Kian on Dec 23, 2016 23:59:12 GMT
Hmm, I think some people are getting a little carried away. Now of course Bioware does do blunders, but there's simply not enough information at the moment to get upset about. In regards to the skill swapping: from what they say it sounds really convenient. How is it explained lore-wise remains to be seen. I think some people forget that we don't know yet... well mostly anything about how the game skills/powers system works. The thing they refer to as profiles or class might end up being different from what class meant in the ME trilogy. I mean a little more creativity in imagining what this will be like would be nice, instead of assuming the same pattern from previous games applies here with no adjustments. I might end up liking it or not. For example I mumbled a bit about DAI and the limited number of skills compared to DAO, but it wasn't a real problem. I can definetly see pros and cons to both approaches. One thing I have a problem with is dumbing things down. Which is what they did for ME2 but started to somewhat undo with ME3. Hopefully they keep that direction and don't turn Mass Effect in a FPS clone. That would be upseting lol. Back to the skill/profile swapping... personally I don't really have a problem with adding meta stuff to my pt's so as long as they don't do anything weirdly bad with this system, I'll be fine. I know some people like to be more hardcore with their rp, but it all depends on how they set up the system, especially lore-wise. Still, I'm sure there will be a lot of discussion about this until more news "leak" from Bioware... EDIT: Just thought about this, as an example of what I meant. You could have a scenario where you choose a class (let's say adept) and then you can swap profiles and move the points around, but within the adept "category". So you'll be able to swap to a "soldier profile" by equiping powers based on the adept concept but aimed at specific situations (lore-wise you would "focus" your biotics to maybe mimic what a soldier or sniper can do or whatever). Let's say you use a "biotic trance" that mimics the soldier's "adrenaline rush" skill. So you won't be doing a meta class change, you'll just use a focused approach to your class to mimic other classes to benefit you depending on what you're facing. This will be easy to explain lore-wise and doable in game world. Again, it all depends on how they explain it and what the system actually is. If it's just there and you actually do a meta swap to "soldier" while in the field... yeah it would be a bit weird, but for me personally it would be convenient more than anything else
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Post by KingDarious BBB on Dec 24, 2016 0:04:36 GMT
So I can go from being space Jesus to being a space GOD!
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Post by Saboru on Dec 24, 2016 0:05:27 GMT
I understand guys, but even so, he should've phrased it differently then. The way he says it makes it sound like we are forced to choose combat no matter the circumstance, and that isn't aways true in Mass Effect... I'm a bit suspicious of that statement though (maybe he understood the question differently than I did?), cause in the gameplay trailer, we can try to negotiate in a more peaceful manner with Sloan Kelly (at least that's what the choices make me believe), that is already a form of diplomacy for me (BUT I dunno the consequences of either so it doesn't count for much). You see I'm the other way round. If someone said diplomacy and stealth to me regarding a game I'd expect plenty of options to solve things solely by those methods, not a shot fired. If I played through and found they in fact meant you can get through the odd conversation or small area using these options, but 95% will be shooting everyone in the face I would not be impressed.
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Post by Muddy Boots on Dec 24, 2016 0:08:42 GMT
I have seen that there seem to be many people that see that comment as if he said: "there will only be fighting and that is all we have done on ME". I took it more that he meant that the fighting is in the majority of missions. I would be really surprised if there isn't any missions that can be solved without killing. Just like in OT the bigger part of the game WAS shoot the bad guy. That didn't mean that was all there was. Having recently played it too, that does only happen after you've slaughtered batarians by the bucketful. I wouldn't call it diplomacy so much as the option to only kill nearly everyone, not absolutely everyone. There's plenty of missions with options to reduce the death toll, but not combat free ones. I understand guys, but even so, he should've phrased it differently then. The way he says it makes it sound like we are forced to choose combat no matter the circumstance, and that isn't aways true in Mass Effect... I'm a bit suspicious of that statement though (maybe he understood the question differently than I did?), cause in the gameplay trailer, we can try to negotiate in a more peaceful manner with Sloan Kelly (at least that's what the choices make me believe), that is already a form of diplomacy for me (BUT I dunno the consequences of either so it doesn't count for much). I took his comment more to mean that there won't be any missions where there will be absolutely no combat-like totally stealth missions that some people have put on a wish list in another thread. I can't really remember any missions in any of the trilogy games where we had that. I'm thinking that this is where the gray area decisions we'll have to make come in. Like: let the Batarian go and save the civilians or kill the innocents and the Batarian only even a little fuzzier and less clear-cut as far as morality is concerned.
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Post by Gileadan on Dec 24, 2016 0:10:25 GMT
So I can go from being space Jesus to being a space GOD! Space biotic sniper engineer marine!
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Post by colfoley on Dec 24, 2016 0:21:14 GMT
The same interview which mentioned the whole spiel about different personalities also mentioned that Gamble believes they have the deepest dialog system they have ever had before. Granted this could be PR speak but we don't actually know and all we can do is take them on their word...IE there won't be reams of auto dialogue forced down our throat.
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Post by BansheeOwnage on Dec 24, 2016 0:24:08 GMT
2- Sara and Scott will react differently to situations or people because of their own personalities. ...What the hell?! What happened to roleplaying, huh? Getting to choose how to play our own character? How about choosing how to react to different situations or characters myself, rather than having it decided for me?! This is just ME3 autodialogue syndrome all over again, people. Why would you go backwards? There is no downside to having all the options as both genders! It's needlessly limiting otherwise! Why go back to autodialogue after DA:I improved that substantially? What the hell is wrong with you, Bioware? One of the things I love about Bioware games is that I can play as a woman and just... do that. I'm not limited by that choice artificially and arbitrarily. This is a step in the wrong direction, Bioware. Utterly, completely, colossally STUPID move. Awesome Christmas present, this news is. And I was already feeling so good today... And then there's the class thing to think about. ...
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Post by Thrombin on Dec 24, 2016 0:28:54 GMT
They've already said in previous articles/interviews that there is an in-game reason for why Ryder can switch abilities. It was something to do with being a Pathfinder. My guess is that it is related to Sam. Sam can make you non-biotic? The use of biotics in any meaningful combat way is facilitated by implants, don't forget. I have a strong feeling that Sam is either an implant or able to control them. As I recall, when you choose a class in ME you get these silhouettes pop up with different implant configurations depending on what class you wanted to be. So maybe Sam has a way of changing the configuration or switching between different implants to facilitate different types of profile.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 24, 2016 0:35:13 GMT
I wouldn't worry yet. Especially about auto dialogue. You will still probably get *at least four* and probably more in a few cases sets of dialog in cut scenes but then what your characters say will be slightly different based on who they are. You can still shape their character. Heck you can still shape your character under this system far more then Geralt of Rivia and people seem to consider that a great RPG.
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Post by Thrombin on Dec 24, 2016 0:38:10 GMT
What happened to roleplaying, huh? Getting to choose how to play our own character? How about choosing how to react to different situations or characters myself, rather than having it decided for me?! This is just ME3 autodialogue syndrome all over again, people. Why would you go backwards? There is no downside to having all the options as both genders! It's needlessly limiting otherwise! Why go back to autodialogue after DA:I improved that substantially? What the hell is wrong with you, Bioware? One of the things I love about Bioware games is that I can play as a woman and just... do that. I'm not limited by that choice artificially and arbitrarily. This is a step in the wrong direction, Bioware. Utterly, completely, colossally STUPID move. Of course you'll get to choose your character. We've already seen multiple dialogue options. You get to decide whether to be angry, sarcastic, sympathetic, aggressive, logical, emotional.. There's going to be more choice of tone or actions than ever before. But Shepard was not a complete blank slate. There was still a script for each option and a voice actor emoting and projecting their personality into the script. All they're saying is that it's not going to be the exact same script for each Ryder. That means when we play a run as female Ryder we get different dialogue to male Ryder. How can that be bad? They both have different backgrounds and motivations, after all, as they are two completely different characters in the game with their own stories. It makes much more sense that they would have different words, if not reactions, to the same events and it will make the second run through much fresher and more interesting than just being a carbon copy of the first run. I think it's going to be great.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2016 0:41:37 GMT
The Ryders having different personalities makes sense, since they're completely separate people. Shepard was just one character with a gender toggle.
I'm not sure how to feel about the profile swapping, though. I suppose there will be some lore-based explanation for it, but right now I can't imagine how that will work. How do you explain away a character seemingly forgetting abilties after the profile swap?
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Post by colfoley on Dec 24, 2016 0:43:10 GMT
The Ryders having different personalities makes sense, since they're separate people. Shepard was just one character with a gender toggle. I'm not sure how to feel about the profile swapping, though. I suppose there will be some lore-based explanation for it, but right now I can't imagine how that will work. How do you explain away a character seemingly forgetting abilties after the profile swap? My explnation is they don't. They just load different programs into their omnis/ use different biotic abilities at any one time.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 24, 2016 0:46:38 GMT
Sam can make you non-biotic? The use of biotics in any meaningful combat way is facilitated by implants, don't forget. I have a strong feeling that Sam is either an implant or able to control them. As I recall, when you choose a class in ME you get these silhouettes pop up with different implant configurations depending on what class you wanted to be. So maybe Sam has a way of changing the configuration or switching between different implants to facilitate different types of profile. Great, so SAM knows how to remove and redistribute Praxis kits...
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Post by colfoley on Dec 24, 2016 0:56:05 GMT
Quick question: For those worried about the respeccing of your characters, especially on the lines of your character has magically 'forgotten' a skill they once used, how can you justify respeccing in every game ever? Mass Effect, Dragon Age, the Witcher, are all RPGs which have the ability to respec in them?
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Post by peebee on Dec 24, 2016 0:56:40 GMT
2- Sara and Scott will react differently to situations or people because of their own personalities. ...What the hell?! What happened to roleplaying, huh? Getting to choose how to play our own character? How about choosing how to react to different situations or characters myself, rather than having it decided for me?! This is just ME3 autodialogue syndrome all over again, people. Why would you go backwards? There is no downside to having all the options as both genders! It's needlessly limiting otherwise! Why go back to autodialogue after DA:I improved that substantially? What the hell is wrong with you, Bioware? One of the things I love about Bioware games is that I can play as a woman and just... do that. I'm not limited by that choice artificially and arbitrarily. This is a step in the wrong direction, Bioware. Utterly, completely, colossally STUPID move. Awesome Christmas present, this news is. And I was already feeling so good today... And then there's the class thing to think about. ... I don't think you should worry that much! As others have said, you'll still be able to customize Ryder, and I don't think it'll be as settled as Shepard (that already has a reputation). sisRyder and broRyder are young and inexperienced right? But they are still too different people that exist at the same time, so it makes sense for them to speak a little differently. And I actually believe that with this they have listened to Inquisition feedback. Of course I understand your point of view, but I had a harder time connecting with my Inquisitor than with Hawke or Shepard, for example, so I do prefer them to have a little of background and just shape what they're really like from there.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 24, 2016 1:08:21 GMT
Quick question: For those worried about the respeccing of your characters, especially on the lines of your character has magically 'forgotten' a skill they once used, how can you justify respeccing in every game ever? Mass Effect, Dragon Age, the Witcher, are all RPGs which have the ability to respec in them? I don't. Not unless I frakked up and created an unplayable build. Now it looks like the player will be "encouraged" to rebuild themselves based on particular fights.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 24, 2016 1:10:42 GMT
Quick question: For those worried about the respeccing of your characters, especially on the lines of your character has magically 'forgotten' a skill they once used, how can you justify respeccing in every game ever? Mass Effect, Dragon Age, the Witcher, are all RPGs which have the ability to respec in them? I don't. Not unless I frakked up and created an unplayable build. Now it looks like the player will be "encouraged" to rebuild themselves based on particular fights. Which then still leaves it up to the player whether or not they will even bother. I don't plan on it that much if only for the pure simple stake of experimenting with powers until I find a powerset I like, at which point those will probably be the powers I stick to for the rest of the game.
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Post by zarrokhai on Dec 24, 2016 1:24:42 GMT
Quick question: For those worried about the respeccing of your characters, especially on the lines of your character has magically 'forgotten' a skill they once used, how can you justify respeccing in every game ever? Mass Effect, Dragon Age, the Witcher, are all RPGs which have the ability to respec in them? But you respec within the same class. Take DA:I for example, you can respec, but you can't change your class. A mage can't suddenly become a warrior or vice versa. As to how you explain it, it's simple. I like to think my Inquisitor is simply learning to master new spells. In ME:A it sounds like Ryder can become any class (sorry, profile) at any time. It doesn't make sense for someone who's trained to be an Infiltrator to suddenly go around being an expert at close range biotic combat.
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Post by Saboru on Dec 24, 2016 1:25:03 GMT
Quick question: For those worried about the respeccing of your characters, especially on the lines of your character has magically 'forgotten' a skill they once used, how can you justify respeccing in every game ever? Mass Effect, Dragon Age, the Witcher, are all RPGs which have the ability to respec in them? If this is a repec of the pick x of your y skills, change pretty much whenever you want, designed to be done easily and frequently, with the game designed under the assumption this is an integral part of gameplay, I view it as a different beast from those kind of respec your extensive skill tree features, which you don't want to be doing too often. The latter I just don't consider an in universe thing, but me the player choosing to mess around a bit, with the former I want a little nod of justification from the game. Mind you I have no problem with the idea from a roleplaying viewpoint. Let's assume our wonderful latest model biotic implant is now reconfigurable, but at the expense of the number of skills it can access at any time, our omnitool is the explorer model and loaded down with advanced planetary survey functions on top of combat software and can only wedge so much in, and okay non tech/biotic skills are trickier to justify, but two out of three ain't bad and I'm sure someone can think of something.
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Post by coldsteelblue on Dec 24, 2016 1:26:26 GMT
Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions here, or putting 1 & 1 together & coming out with 1,000,000, but from what I'm garnering from the 'profile swap' is that basically, like DA:I the squad AI is shit & you'll have to do everything yourself, made much worse by not being able to give orders to the squad members. As in the Gameplay trailer we do just see the other guys running around doing who-knows-what & there was that rather large celebratory message for scoring a tech-combo...but I don't know for sure, hopefully this'll get explained in more detail in the new year.
Just my thoughts.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 24, 2016 1:37:50 GMT
Quick question: For those worried about the respeccing of your characters, especially on the lines of your character has magically 'forgotten' a skill they once used, how can you justify respeccing in every game ever? Mass Effect, Dragon Age, the Witcher, are all RPGs which have the ability to respec in them? But you respec within the same class. Take DA:I for example, you can respec, but you can't change your class. A mage can't suddenly become a warrior or vice versa. As to how you explain it, it's simple. I like to think my Inquisitor is simply learning to master new spells. In ME:A it sounds like Ryder can become any class (sorry, profile) at any time. It doesn't make sense for someone who's trained to be an Infiltrator to suddenly go around being an expert at close range biotic combat. Sure but at least in ME that is pretty much mitigated more by the fact that by and large there is not that much of a difference between the classes. Actually I could easily see the next Dragon Age game going classless. I think I was thinking this could happen even before the reveal ME A would. Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions here, or putting 1 & 1 together & coming out with 1,000,000, but from what I'm garnering from the 'profile swap' is that basically, like DA:I the squad AI is shit & you'll have to do everything yourself, made much worse by not being able to give orders to the squad members. As in the Gameplay trailer we do just see the other guys running around doing who-knows-what & there was that rather large celebratory message for scoring a tech-combo...but I don't know for sure, hopefully this'll get explained in more detail in the new year. Just my thoughts. That's more par for the course anyways for Mass Effect. Shepard was a lot more of an action hero take everything by storm in the face then any of the protags in DA have been. Only thing I used my companions for in ME was to ocasionally strip enemies of their defenses or set up combos.
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