sjsharp2010
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Dec 24, 2016 19:08:11 GMT
Well, that spiraled into negativity quickly. I'm pretty sure unless the devs said they are making a ME1 clone with ME3 combat, no one would be happy. I'm not worried about the switching of roles/kits thing. If I want to play as an Infiltrator I will just play as an Infiltrator. I'm guessing the system is more nuanced than the short interview lets on, anyway. I doubt when they say the players start of green and inexperienced that they also start off having every ability at their disposal. I'm interested in the new system and will wait to see it in practice before I denounce it as the bane of existence.
There could be a plausible explanation of how one person could have engineering and biotic and infiltrating and close-combat expertise. Has anyone seen the Sylvester Stallone movie "Demolition Man"? In it, prisoners are put into cryo stasis. During rehabilitation they are given skills through subliminal messages, like knitting or cooking. They main antagonist gets skills for weapons use, infiltration, etc. This could be employed on the 600 year journey to Andromeda. If we say the Ryder siblings are always biotic, then getting subliminal training in engineering and infiltration is easy. They have the base knowledge ingrained in them and can "level" up their other skills if they choose. You're welcome! Indeed in fact until we know precisely how these systems will work this is how I'm approaching it too if I want my Ryder to be a biotic powerhouse I'l turn them into one one way or another.Let's not forget this is an RPG after all. We get to choose how we handle the situations we find ourselves in within the rules of the game. The rules haven't been completely spelled out yet so let's wait until they are before we completely freak out.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Dec 24, 2016 21:53:50 GMT
2- Sara and Scott will react differently to situations or people because of their own personalities. ...What the hell?! What happened to roleplaying, huh? Getting to choose how to play our own character? How about choosing how to react to different situations or characters myself, rather than having it decided for me?! This is just ME3 autodialogue syndrome all over again, people. Why would you go backwards? There is no downside to having all the options as both genders! It's needlessly limiting otherwise! Why go back to autodialogue after DA:I improved that substantially? What the hell is wrong with you, Bioware? One of the things I love about Bioware games is that I can play as a woman and just... do that. I'm not limited by that choice artificially and arbitrarily. This is a step in the wrong direction, Bioware. Utterly, completely, colossally STUPID move. Awesome Christmas present, this news is. And I was already feeling so good today... And then there's the class thing to think about. ... I wouldn't worry too much. I think you might be taking it farther than what they meant. Think about this, for instance: in the OT you play as Shepard, who for the different choices in back story and class behaves the same. You have several options of how you play (generally Paragon, Renegade, or Paragade). This limits your roleplay-ability they same way as Mike is describing. At no point can you make Shep break down and cry in fear or run and hide from enemies screaming because that's not who he/she is. He/she is an Alliance Marine and can never be Shep the Scientist or Shep the Scholar because that's not the character. Besides whatever choices you make, there is a base character personality there. Now you aren't picking between a male and female version of the same character, but between two different characters. Each with there own base personality. But it never says certain options won't be available (I don't think, correct me if I'm wrong) but that other characters will react differently to Scott vs Sarah. But even if it did mean different options, that's OK. Maybe Sarah can seduce a character Scott can't to get an agreement or to betray them, or maybe certain Andromeda cultures see either men or women as inferior and that's something Ryder must deal with (like being a Dalish elf in Dragon Age: Inquisition). So before you "abort the thread" realize that you have never had complete control over your Mass Effect protagonist's personality and that this could be fun for replayability because it's not just a voice actor change, but a different feel with different reactions as well! It also makes sense because women and men are not treated the same by everyone all the time, so different reactions from other characters makes sense.
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Post by Vall on Dec 24, 2016 22:11:42 GMT
All this speculation, on how to explain the system...but really, the way I understand it is (if you include all info we have) -You have your skill trees (let's say combat, tech, biotic) -you invest points into these trees, getting skills -since it looks like you're limited to 3 skills at the time, you organize these acquired skills into loadouts or profiles which you can switch when needed -if you really need explanation, due to you not being locked to classes your omni-tool can only handle managing limited amount of skills think of it like, you can have installed TW3, DAI, ME3 and several other games at the same time, but you can reasonably run only one, at most two of them at the same time with reasonable performance, the same way with skills, you know how to use let's say throw, warp, cloak, charge, incinerate and overload ("installed skills") but you have to divide them into profiles, so you get -profile 1 with Charge, Throw, Overload -profile 2 with Cloak, Warp, Incinerate Well I hope that makes sense This is not something that I considered but it makes a lot of sense and a way you can semi easily switch between your active powers because you can set up power profiles based on either the A. combat situation. or B. squad selection. This is a way to at least get over the three power limit, at least if we can. The only thing I worry about is I think the profiles are pre selected per what Gamble indicated. You unlock certain number of abilities and then you unlock the 'engineer' profile which then gives you three of those abilities out of those tech abilities and you can't mix and match between them. Hope I am wrong but I think this is more like what Gamble was talking about. I think you're taking what he said too literally. We already know they abolished classic classes. In trailer we've seen different combinations of abilities "equipped" at the same time. In this interview he most likely used vanguard/infiltrator as examples since we are already familiar with the idea of these classes (vanguard - hockey puck of mass destruction, infiltrator - sniper with cloak/tech abilities) and he wanted to point out the fact you are able to learn and use different styles in the same pt (so you don't need to start a new pt just to switch from CQC demolition to long range sniping). I might be wrong, but that's the way I read it, combined with everything else we've seen or heard so far.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Dec 24, 2016 22:18:53 GMT
bull**** analogy, just because I am using Microsoft edge that does not mean my smartphone "forgets" how to make calls Even better if I were to make my smartphone and my knife one connected device and was told that this new "smart knife" device could only do one thing at the time I would say it is a downgrade since I cannot make phone calls while stabbing people... Stop trying so hard to justify nonsensical design choices, Bioware does not need more white knighiting. You've misunderstood, I wasn't referring to the design choice I was referring to the approach you would take to explaining it in the game using examples of situations where we accept reduced functionality in a multi-purpose tool rather that insisting on a series of dedicated devices. The design choice appears to be to move from their previous skill system - class based character build, respec limited, all selected skills available at all times - to a different model - use only x skills from y, no classes, respec reasonably freely. If you want to discuss that, then let's, but you'll have to give me better than calling it nonsensical, because it's a design that's worked in many games for many years. Having made that design choice, I do expect them to make an in universe nod to the change, in a similar way to the mention of 'now we have ammo' in ME2. That's what I was referring to. Now if you're referring to my stab at an explanation of that as nonsensical, fair enough. Rather than go round and round rules lawyering specifics let's just abstract it out a little. We have sacrificed elements of functionality 1 in return for improved performance in areas A, B and C, because currently we value areas A, B and C more highly than maintaining current performance levels for functionality 1. And remains idiotic because it flies in the face of the fact that someone with an omnitool and a biotic amp can do exactly what ryder and his Legion-like powers cannot. It's like when they tried (and miserably failed) to justify thermal clips.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 24, 2016 22:23:59 GMT
This is not something that I considered but it makes a lot of sense and a way you can semi easily switch between your active powers because you can set up power profiles based on either the A. combat situation. or B. squad selection. This is a way to at least get over the three power limit, at least if we can. The only thing I worry about is I think the profiles are pre selected per what Gamble indicated. You unlock certain number of abilities and then you unlock the 'engineer' profile which then gives you three of those abilities out of those tech abilities and you can't mix and match between them. Hope I am wrong but I think this is more like what Gamble was talking about. I think you're taking what he said too literally. We already know they abolished classic classes. In trailer we've seen different combinations of abilities "equipped" at the same time. In this interview he most likely used vanguard/infiltrator as examples since we are already familiar with the idea of these classes (vanguard - hockey puck of mass destruction, infiltrator - sniper with cloak/tech abilities) and he wanted to point out the fact you are able to learn and use different styles in the same pt (so you don't need to start a new pt just to switch from CQC demolition to long range sniping). I might be wrong, but that's the way I read it, combined with everything else we've seen or heard so far. Actually I think you are right, upon thinking about it. And here's how. We know that tech + biotic = Sentinel biotic + combat = Vanguard Tech + combat = Infiltrator. And then from what they said doing all three = explorer. We also know (or at the least suspect) that we get three powers per class. So my guess is, chose a power from each and you unlock Explorer, get bonuses, if you chose 2 from biotics and one from soldier you get Vanguard, with various bonuses associated with it...and I think I could be very ok with this. Mind you if I am right I suppose it is very possible to have a 'vanguard' who does not use biotic charge. Wouldn't that be fun?
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 24, 2016 22:34:17 GMT
... "it doesn't make sense for some characters to be bisexual." ... ... WHY NOT, BIOWARE? What do you mean by this? What character traits do you deem incompatible with certain sexualities? ... To be honest I'm not reading that comment in such a concerning way. This was discussed in various Dragon Age panels in previous years. They write a range of characters and based on the writer's understanding of each character as a whole, they deem that only a particular orientation 'suits' them, or that different orientations might work. As an example, when discussing Solas later, they were very clear that his orientation and indeed racial preferences were very specific to him. Similarly, does it make sense for Dorian, Sera and Cassandra to be bisexual, given what we know of them? No it doesn't. If they were bisexual we wouldn't second guess it, but only because they would be written a differently and have slightly different stories. Thinking of the characters in Mass Effect Andromeda, which Mike Gamble knows about, do some characters not make sense as being bisexual, I'm thinking yes. (we'll know for sure when the game's out)
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Post by dalinne on Dec 24, 2016 22:38:11 GMT
So, are we going to be the master of all four elements six classes? Are we the chosen one? Pathfinder, the Last Ghostryder? Also, I didn't like the fact things will be different depending on if you play with the bro or if you play with the sis. 1) As others have pointed out, I don't like the fact we are going to have a preset personality for your PC. I could understand that with your NPC sibling, but with the protagonist? I don't know, maybe that will turn to be great. We will see. However... 2) I'm afraid when a game developer says they want to make different experiences between male/female protagonist, that tends to be reduced to "sexual harassment for female protagonist" (there are very few examples of that with FShep. They are very scarce, but there are). 3) I want to have sense of humour. I hope they don't use the card of "one sibling is more stoic while the other one is the witty and funny one", especially with the protagonist. If Sara is stoic as NPC while Scott is more sarcastic as NPC, that's OK, but with the PC...
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sjsharp2010
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Dec 24, 2016 23:32:44 GMT
So, are we going to be the master of all four elements six classes? Are we the chosen one? Pathfinder, the Last Ghostryder? Also, I didn't like the fact things will be different depending on if you play with the bro or if you play with the sis. 1) As others have pointed out, I don't like the fact we are going to have a preset personality for your PC. I could understand that with your NPC sibling, but with the protagonist? I don't know, maybe that will turn to be great. We will see. However... 2) I'm afraid when a game developer says they want to make different experiences between male/female protagonist, that tends to be reduced to "sexual harassment for female protagonist" (there are very few examples of that with FShep. They are very scarce, but there are). 3) I want to have sense of humour. I hope they don't use the card of "one sibling is more stoic while the other one is the witty and funny one", especially with the protagonist. If Sara is stoic as NPC while Scott is more sarcastic as NPC, that's OK, but with the PC... I don't think that'll be a problem as I think each character will have their own moments of humour or feel a bit emotional over something or whatever like with the Inquisitor during Trespasser DLC when their mark starts flaring up in the briefing and then do the we asve Fereldean and their angry we save Orlais and their angry speech and all that. There's always a little bit of homour in al lthese games asnd based on Sara's reaction when SAM tells her about Sloane and she says "A hothead great" in a rather sarcastic tone made me smile as well as it seemed to me that she does have a bit of a sarcastic/homoorous personality that I might like.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 24, 2016 23:36:36 GMT
Great now I want to see an Obi-Wan Kenobi Sara Ryder sarcasm battle.
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Post by fialka on Dec 25, 2016 0:57:47 GMT
I really don't think the differences between Scott and Sara as the PC will be all that different. I could see us having a few unique lines here and there, or maybe sometimes the auto-dialogue is different. But I don't think, as some fear, we're going to have entirely different personalities for each character. The resources to do that would be ridiculous - two different scripts, with different dialogue that would be written and recorded in response for the other characters, plus the animation tweaks for the individual cutscenes... I don't see Bioware investing that much into it. I'm sure 95% of the dialogue will be identical. I'm wondering though if the two twins will have backgrounds which would explain that bit of difference - so that it's not so much a gender swap so personality swap, as it is our past experiences being different? Just a thought... Regardless, with the many different dialogue paths you can apparently take in each situation, I'm sure we'll have ample opportunity to shape our character from the moment we take control of them. Kind of like how we could play an Earthborn Ruthless Shepard, which meant specific things happened in our past, but we have the option to decide what that means to our Shepard now.
As for the whole 'being trained in all things' issue: We do know that we get Pathfinder training, and we learned a while ago that the twins are both biotics. And that N7 Dad has likely been preparing the whole family for this journey for some time. So it makes sense that both Ryder twins would have some combat training and rudimentary tech knowledge. I think how we choose to level those skills will determine whether we become pretty good at everything, or really good at a few and just passable at the rest. If anything it would be less immersive for our Ryder, with all his/her supposed training, to not know how to shoot a gun well or overload a shield.
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Post by Command0rk on Dec 25, 2016 1:09:39 GMT
Stoked to hear that there will be differences between bro and sis. There were slight differences between sheploo and femshep, but not enough to convince me to play sheploo more than once or twice for certain romances. Just adds huge replay-ability potential imo. And sounds like set or semi-set personality or just a general direction unique to Sara and Scott - which was pretty well everything I was hoping for! The negativity around this single point is very blown out of proportion. Not that that's surprising.. I really think all Mike is saying here is that there is more direction to the protagonists this time around, and a unique feel to each. Which is good, right? This is a Bioware roleplay game, not a sandbox, role is good. No reason to panic.. yet
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2016 1:12:59 GMT
Stoked to hear that there will be differences between bro and sis. There were slight differences between sheploo and femshep, but not enough to convince me to play sheploo more than once or twice for certain romances. Just adds huge replay-ability potential imo. And sounds like set or semi-set personality or just a general direction unique to Sara and Scott - which was pretty well everything I was hoping for! The negativity around this single point is very blown out of proportion. Not that that's surprising.. I really think all Mike is saying here is that there is more direction to the protagonists this time around, and a unique feel to each. Which is good, right? This is a Bioware roleplay game, not a sandbox, role is good. No reason to panic.. yet Hard to trust A single word out of Gamble. He did say MP wasn't required for "the best ending" in vanilla ME3 or "you won't get bespoken endings" for the exact same game.
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Post by Command0rk on Dec 25, 2016 1:19:35 GMT
Stoked to hear that there will be differences between bro and sis. There were slight differences between sheploo and femshep, but not enough to convince me to play sheploo more than once or twice for certain romances. Just adds huge replay-ability potential imo. And sounds like set or semi-set personality or just a general direction unique to Sara and Scott - which was pretty well everything I was hoping for! The negativity around this single point is very blown out of proportion. Not that that's surprising.. I really think all Mike is saying here is that there is more direction to the protagonists this time around, and a unique feel to each. Which is good, right? This is a Bioware roleplay game, not a sandbox, role is good. No reason to panic.. yet Hard to trust A single word out of Gamble. He did say MP wasn't required for "the best ending" in vanilla ME3 or "you won't get bespoken endings" for the exact same game. So.. then he could be completely off in saying the personalities are different at all? I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. And, well technically you can still get the best ending with SP war assets alone and don't necessarily need MP, but I get the issue people have with it.
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Post by sandalisthemaker on Dec 25, 2016 1:20:19 GMT
... WHY NOT, BIOWARE? What do you mean by this? What character traits do you deem incompatible with certain sexualities? ... To be honest I'm not reading that comment in such a concerning way. This was discussed in various Dragon Age panels in previous years. They write a range of characters and based on the writer's understanding of each character as a whole, they deem that only a particular orientation 'suits' them, or that different orientations might work. As an example, when discussing Solas later, they were very clear that his orientation and indeed racial preferences were very specific to him. Similarly, does it make sense for Dorian, Sera and Cassandra to be bisexual, given what we know of them? No it doesn't. If they were bisexual we wouldn't second guess it, but only because they would be written a differently and have slightly different stories. Thinking of the characters in Mass Effect Andromeda, which Mike Gamble knows about, do some characters not make sense as being bisexual, I'm thinking yes. (we'll know for sure when the game's out) But this doesn't make sense. How else can a sexuality "suit" someone unless you refer to stereotypes? Oh, of course he can't be bisexual. He's a no-nonsence warrior, not a promiscuous rogue! Oh, of course he can't be straight, he's fashion conscious! Stereotypes. Personality and sexuality are two different things. Character X, Character Y, and Character Z could all have virtually the same personality, and one could be straight, the other gay, and the other bisexual. There is nothing that says they can't be. IRL, a beefy lumberjack with a beard who drives a pick up truck and loves football could be gay. They exist too. How would Sera's story be different if she was straight or bisexual than what it is now? Her story doesn't have anything to do with her sexuality. How would Cassandra's story be different? Her's doesn't have anything to do with her sexuality. I'm obviously not talking about the romance paths here. I'm talking about their overall story. Dorian yes, his sexuality is tied in with his story, but he could have been straight or bisexual and still had the same personality.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2016 1:22:29 GMT
Hard to trust A single word out of Gamble. He did say MP wasn't required for "the best ending" in vanilla ME3 or "you won't get bespoken endings" for the exact same game. So.. then he could be completely off in saying the personalities are different at all? I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. And, well technically you can still get the best ending with SP war assets alone and don't necessarily need MP, but I get the issue people have with it. He technically lied about the Shepard breathing scene not requiring MP since 50% of all available War Assets were always short of 4000 (only 3700 possible without mp and with full imports). Just from ME3 alone, can't trust any information from him regarding anything on Andromeda at all, period.
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Post by Vall on Dec 25, 2016 1:57:04 GMT
Dorian yes, his sexuality is tied in with his story, but he could have been straight or bisexual and still had the same personality. I don't know, I actually kinda liked being rejected by Dorian, same with Cassandra (I know it sounds weird ). So while he would've retained his personality, it just wouldn't be the same if he was bisexual. Being able to get rejected by characters simply because they are not into you is great and makes them feel more real...at least in my opinion >_>
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Post by sandalisthemaker on Dec 25, 2016 2:04:04 GMT
Dorian yes, his sexuality is tied in with his story, but he could have been straight or bisexual and still had the same personality. I don't know, I actually kinda liked being rejected by Dorian, same with Cassandra (I know it sounds weird ). So while he would've retained his personality, it just wouldn't be the same if he was bisexual. Being able to get rejected by characters simply because they are not into you is great and makes them feel more real...at least in my opinion >_> Dorian is great, and it's great that he's gay. I'm all for it. My point is just that personality and sexuality do not depend on the other, and one does not determine the other. That is what "it doesn't make sense for this character to be (insert sexuality here)" implies.
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Post by Vall on Dec 25, 2016 2:08:17 GMT
I don't know, I actually kinda liked being rejected by Dorian, same with Cassandra (I know it sounds weird ). So while he would've retained his personality, it just wouldn't be the same if he was bisexual. Being able to get rejected by characters simply because they are not into you is great and makes them feel more real...at least in my opinion >_> Dorian is great, and it's great that he's gay. I'm all for it. My point is just that personality and sexuality do not depend on the other, and one does not determine the other. That is what "it doesn't make sense for this character to be (insert sexuality here)" implies. Yeah, that sentence is formulated in mildly stupid way Maybe he meant that as that's what the writer imagined that character being like, so it wouldn't make sense to push bisexuality on them? I don't know
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Post by sandalisthemaker on Dec 25, 2016 2:15:20 GMT
Dorian is great, and it's great that he's gay. I'm all for it. My point is just that personality and sexuality do not depend on the other, and one does not determine the other. That is what "it doesn't make sense for this character to be (insert sexuality here)" implies. Yeah, that sentence is formulated in mildly stupid way Maybe he meant that as that's what the writer imagined that character being like, so it wouldn't make sense to push bisexuality on them? I don't know 'Character X is (insert sexuality here) because that is how their writer envisioned them and that's how they want them to be,' is a perfectly good reason. I just wish that is what Mike Gamble would have said instead of "it doesn't make sense." That's just chock-full of unfortunate implications.
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Post by Vall on Dec 25, 2016 2:26:03 GMT
Yeah, that sentence is formulated in mildly stupid way Maybe he meant that as that's what the writer imagined that character being like, so it wouldn't make sense to push bisexuality on them? I don't know 'Character X is (insert sexuality here) because that is how their writer envisioned them and that's how they want them to be,' is a perfectly good reason. I just wish that is what Mike Gamble would have said instead of "it doesn't make sense." That's just chock-full of unfortunate implications. I agree, that's true...guess they need better spokesperson, or give everyone allowed to talk in public courses in rhetoric
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Mad Cassidy
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Post by Mad Cassidy on Dec 25, 2016 2:53:56 GMT
I'm not sure what to think about switching profiles. I really do hope we can create our own profiles, and not have to rely on presets.
Regarding Scott and Sarah having different personalities and responding differently to situations or characters... this is acceptable to me only if we are talking about the non-PC sibling - they're allowed to have a default personality because I'm not controlling them. But as the player, I, and only I, should determine how PC Ryder responds. There should be no artificial difference between PC Scott and PC Sarah in terms of personality because I as the player should be in control of their personality. If you want both characters to behave differently or feel unique, then you roleplay them differently in your own game, but don't mandate it by giving them different dialogue options or character traits. I'm fine if other characters react to each Ryder differently - that's interesting. It's not interesting when I lose agency because someone thought it'd be 'neat' for PC Scott and PC Sarah to have a baseline personality difference - that doesn't do anything but limit my ability to roleplay my character.
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dmc1001
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Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Dec 25, 2016 3:34:41 GMT
So.. then he could be completely off in saying the personalities are different at all? I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. And, well technically you can still get the best ending with SP war assets alone and don't necessarily need MP, but I get the issue people have with it. He technically lied about the Shepard breathing scene not requiring MP since 50% of all available War Assets were always short of 4000 (only 3700 possible without mp and with full imports). Just from ME3 alone, can't trust any information from him regarding anything on Andromeda at all, period. I don't do MP. Always get the breath scene.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Dec 25, 2016 4:21:54 GMT
I took the comment about the different personalities between Scott and Sarah to be when they're NPC's. Maybe I misread but it would make sense there, and would add to the game's replay value if the alternate character are presented as different types of people.
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Post by themikefest on Dec 25, 2016 4:40:41 GMT
He technically lied about the Shepard breathing scene not requiring MP since 50% of all available War Assets were always short of 4000 (only 3700 possible without mp and with full imports). Just from ME3 alone, can't trust any information from him regarding anything on Andromeda at all, period. Even with the dlc and a save import, with galactic readiness at 50%, it wouldn't be enough to get the breath scene if ems was at 5000 with TIM shooting Anderson. 4000 was needed if TIM doesn't shoot Anderson. If a person were to do a default ME3 playthrough without playing any dlc, and has the extended cut installed, it would not be enough to get the breath scene even with the requirement being at 3100. The most the player will get is about 2970 at 50%. The only way to get the breath scene is to not have TIM shoot Anderson. Anderson will give 200 war assets which won't be effected by the player's galactic readiness no matter what.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2016 5:07:36 GMT
He technically lied about the Shepard breathing scene not requiring MP since 50% of all available War Assets were always short of 4000 (only 3700 possible without mp and with full imports). Just from ME3 alone, can't trust any information from him regarding anything on Andromeda at all, period. I don't do MP. Always get the breath scene. I was talking strictly vanilla without ME3 DLC or Extended Cut installed. Extended Cut lowered requirement.
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