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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 25, 2016 8:55:50 GMT
I think Mike's comment simply means 'some of them aren't Bisexual'... because they aren't.
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helios969
N4
Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
Prime Posts: No Clue
Prime Likes: Who Cares
Posts: 2,207 Likes: 3,214
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
helios969
No Clue
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Post by helios969 on Dec 25, 2016 12:59:55 GMT
Not loving what I'm hearing. The DAI like combat with the only two squad mates makes me wonder whether this respeccing thing is to allow the player to pick up the slack for inept squaddies. Don't care hugely about that since I'm not here for combat but still, lazy. Narratively... can you say "Mary Sue?" You have someone who can literally fill every combat role, presumably has expertise in every role from engineering/hacking/biotics/melee/shooting etc. Is there some kind of drawback to this, from a story perspective? Why hasn't this been rolled out to everyone if not? Why not skill trees? Too OP? Problems with the animation? This. My suspicion is that somehow the Ryders will be so special (remember the quote from the Kett stone-halo dude at the end of the trailer) that they can out-soldier James Vega, out-engineer Tali, out-snipe Garrus, out-infiltrate Thane and out-biotic Liara. Get the DLC and they will out-headbutt Wrex, too! Just only one thing at a time, you just need to switch around a lot. You just used biotic charge and a shotgun? Erm, your mind just needs a moment to re-focus so the question mark over your head goes away while you stare at than engineering related problem. EDIT: I also wonder how this is handled in game. If you have your vanguard skill set on and come to, say, a malfunctioning security panel that requires an engineer to fix, what happens? Will the panel's interaction icon signal you to switch to engineer to fix the panel? Will Ryder just say "I don't know what to do with this" until you switch? (Why not switch automatically?) Or will the interaction icon not even be there until you switch to engineer on your own? Or maybe we don't have these kinds of problems anymore and solve everything through combat... All valid questions and pretty much echo my own concerns. One of the biggest reasons I've been very willing to invest in Bioware games is due to replayability. This really has the potential to kill it...even more than the inane "exploration" and fetch quests (which after learning what to avoid, can be avoided). This smells to me like Bio doesn't want to have to react to your class in conversations and cutscenes so they distill everything down...as would be the reasoning behind fixing the Ryder twin personalities. And frankly those little nuances and the occasional recognition of your character class and background are at the heart of what made Mass Effect distinctive. I think it's clear from everything we've seen and heard that MEA is far closer to DAI than what we experienced in ME3. Which if correct will be unfortunate, because instead of two unique ip's, Bio will just have one that swaps setting.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Dec 25, 2016 14:11:22 GMT
This. My suspicion is that somehow the Ryders will be so special (remember the quote from the Kett stone-halo dude at the end of the trailer) that they can out-soldier James Vega, out-engineer Tali, out-snipe Garrus, out-infiltrate Thane and out-biotic Liara. Get the DLC and they will out-headbutt Wrex, too! Just only one thing at a time, you just need to switch around a lot. You just used biotic charge and a shotgun? Erm, your mind just needs a moment to re-focus so the question mark over your head goes away while you stare at than engineering related problem. EDIT: I also wonder how this is handled in game. If you have your vanguard skill set on and come to, say, a malfunctioning security panel that requires an engineer to fix, what happens? Will the panel's interaction icon signal you to switch to engineer to fix the panel? Will Ryder just say "I don't know what to do with this" until you switch? (Why not switch automatically?) Or will the interaction icon not even be there until you switch to engineer on your own? Or maybe we don't have these kinds of problems anymore and solve everything through combat... All valid questions and pretty much echo my own concerns. One of the biggest reasons I've been very willing to invest in Bioware games is due to replayability. This really has the potential to kill it...even more than the inane "exploration" and fetch quests (which after learning what to avoid, can be avoided). This smells to me like Bio doesn't want to have to react to your class in conversations and cutscenes so they distill everything down...as would be the reasoning behind fixing the Ryder twin personalities. And frankly those little nuances and the occasional recognition of your character class and background are at the heart of what made Mass Effect distinctive. I think it's clear from everything we've seen and heard that MEA is far closer to DAI than what we experienced in ME3. Which if correct will be unfortunate, because instead of two unique ip's, Bio will just have one that swaps setting. I might be wrong, but wasn't character class ever "recognised" only once in the entire trilogy, if the PC was an engineer during the Omega DLC for one scene?
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helios969
N4
Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
Prime Posts: No Clue
Prime Likes: Who Cares
Posts: 2,207 Likes: 3,214
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Post by helios969 on Dec 25, 2016 14:26:40 GMT
All valid questions and pretty much echo my own concerns. One of the biggest reasons I've been very willing to invest in Bioware games is due to replayability. This really has the potential to kill it...even more than the inane "exploration" and fetch quests (which after learning what to avoid, can be avoided). This smells to me like Bio doesn't want to have to react to your class in conversations and cutscenes so they distill everything down...as would be the reasoning behind fixing the Ryder twin personalities. And frankly those little nuances and the occasional recognition of your character class and background are at the heart of what made Mass Effect distinctive. I think it's clear from everything we've seen and heard that MEA is far closer to DAI than what we experienced in ME3. Which if correct will be unfortunate, because instead of two unique ip's, Bio will just have one that swaps setting. I might be wrong, but wasn't character class ever "recognised" only once in the entire trilogy, if the PC was an engineer during the Omega DLC for one scene? I am unsure to what extent, but I do recall some dialogue changes with Traynor if you're a biotic prior to the Grissom Academy mission. Even though it's not common, just the occasional change like that adds replayability imo. Between the ones distinct to class and those by your background/reputation, you could discover little nuggets even after a dozen playthroughs. Combine those with the various choices throughout the ME1/2, ME3 provided a lot of exploration of dialogue...something I really appreciated. If I'm interpreting the class/fixed personality thing correctly, much or all of that will be eliminated.
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They call me a Space Cowboy
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Post by Space Cowboy on Dec 25, 2016 14:46:03 GMT
I might be wrong, but wasn't character class ever "recognized" only once in the entire trilogy, if the PC was an engineer during the Omega DLC for one scene? I am unsure to what extent, but I do recall some dialogue changes with Traynor if you're a biotic prior to the Grissom Academy mission. Even though it's not common, just the occasional change like that adds replayability imo. Between the ones distinct to class and those by your background/reputation, you could discover little nuggets even after a dozen playthroughs. Combine those with the various choices throughout the ME1/2, ME3 provided a lot of exploration of dialogue...something I really appreciated. If I'm interpreting the class/fixed personality thing correctly, much or all of that will be eliminated. There were the occasional nice reference, but it was by no means perfect. Like Kaidan claiming my infiltrator shep was a stronger biotic than he was. I find the class swapping strange too, but am willing to wait to hear more information before forming an opinion.
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The Elder King
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 19631
Posts: 6,370 Likes: 8,285
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 25, 2016 14:54:22 GMT
This. My suspicion is that somehow the Ryders will be so special (remember the quote from the Kett stone-halo dude at the end of the trailer) that they can out-soldier James Vega, out-engineer Tali, out-snipe Garrus, out-infiltrate Thane and out-biotic Liara. Get the DLC and they will out-headbutt Wrex, too! Just only one thing at a time, you just need to switch around a lot. You just used biotic charge and a shotgun? Erm, your mind just needs a moment to re-focus so the question mark over your head goes away while you stare at than engineering related problem. EDIT: I also wonder how this is handled in game. If you have your vanguard skill set on and come to, say, a malfunctioning security panel that requires an engineer to fix, what happens? Will the panel's interaction icon signal you to switch to engineer to fix the panel? Will Ryder just say "I don't know what to do with this" until you switch? (Why not switch automatically?) Or will the interaction icon not even be there until you switch to engineer on your own? Or maybe we don't have these kinds of problems anymore and solve everything through combat... All valid questions and pretty much echo my own concerns. One of the biggest reasons I've been very willing to invest in Bioware games is due to replayability. This really has the potential to kill it...even more than the inane "exploration" and fetch quests (which after learning what to avoid, can be avoided). This smells to me like Bio doesn't want to have to react to your class in conversations and cutscenes so they distill everything down...as would be the reasoning behind fixing the Ryder twin personalities. And frankly those little nuances and the occasional recognition of your character class and background are at the heart of what made Mass Effect distinctive. I think it's clear from everything we've seen and heard that MEA is far closer to DAI than what we experienced in ME3. Which if correct will be unfortunate, because instead of two unique ip's, Bio will just have one that swaps setting. How is it close to DAI, since in the latter the background was recognized (not much, but it wasn't much in the trilogy either)? I don't mind being concerned and critical of the feature (since I'm a bit concerned as well), but I don't see how on earth is similar to DAI, where we did get different classes AND backgrounds (instead of the single one we got for Andromeda). I can see (I don't agree with, but I can understand) the comparison between games in terms of exploration, but not for classes and backgrounds.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Dec 25, 2016 15:03:49 GMT
I'm not sure what to think about switching profiles. I really do hope we can create our own profiles, and not have to rely on presets. Regarding Scott and Sarah having different personalities and responding differently to situations or characters... this is acceptable to me only if we are talking about the non-PC sibling - they're allowed to have a default personality because I'm not controlling them. But as the player, I, and only I, should determine how PC Ryder responds. There should be no artificial difference between PC Scott and PC Sarah in terms of personality because I as the player should be in control of their personality. If you want both characters to behave differently or feel unique, then you roleplay them differently in your own game, but don't mandate it by giving them different dialogue options or character traits. I'm fine if other characters react to each Ryder differently - that's interesting. It's not interesting when I lose agency because someone thought it'd be 'neat' for PC Scott and PC Sarah to have a baseline personality difference - that doesn't do anything but limit my ability to roleplay my character. Actually switching profiles seems unnecessary. If they want a Skyrim-ish classless system then let us choose whatever skills we want out of all available, and give us access to our chosen skills all the time. If I want to be a warrior that can pick locks and cast spells then I should be able to be that all the time, not have to artificially swap out skills. But again. I'm willing to wait for more information.
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helios969
N4
Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
Prime Posts: No Clue
Prime Likes: Who Cares
Posts: 2,207 Likes: 3,214
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by helios969 on Dec 25, 2016 15:23:44 GMT
All valid questions and pretty much echo my own concerns. One of the biggest reasons I've been very willing to invest in Bioware games is due to replayability. This really has the potential to kill it...even more than the inane "exploration" and fetch quests (which after learning what to avoid, can be avoided). This smells to me like Bio doesn't want to have to react to your class in conversations and cutscenes so they distill everything down...as would be the reasoning behind fixing the Ryder twin personalities. And frankly those little nuances and the occasional recognition of your character class and background are at the heart of what made Mass Effect distinctive. I think it's clear from everything we've seen and heard that MEA is far closer to DAI than what we experienced in ME3. Which if correct will be unfortunate, because instead of two unique ip's, Bio will just have one that swaps setting. How is it close to DAI, since in the latter the background was recognized (not much, but it wasn't much in the trilogy either)? I don't mind being concerned and critical of the feature (since I'm a bit concerned as well), but I don't see how on earth is similar to DAI, where we did get different classes AND backgrounds (instead of the single one we got for Andromeda). I can see (I don't agree with, but I can understand) the comparison between games in terms of exploration, but not for classes and backgrounds. Speaking just generally from the collective information thus far...not specifically classes. And more abstractly from the perceived shortcut decision making in MEA and from which DAI partially suffered. If you want to disagree, that's cool. I realize lots of people really love DAI...I wish I were one of them. But I don't and I was hoping they'd move away from those things that made it a tedious experience imo. Not only do they seem to be reinforcing the boring grinding portion of it, but seem to be eliminating many of the elements that made ME a distinct gaming experience from the DA franchise (I guess that was as much my point as any). I gotta wonder how (bigger) fans of DA would react if Bioware would eliminate classes (just fyi that might be next). Just swap between playing as a mage, archer, sword-n-shield tank as it suits you for a given encounter. Sounds pretty stupid, right? Makes no sense if one minute your a mage stomping Templar, the next tossing about fireballs. Nevermind that it should take years to master one set of class skills, let alone all of them. Sorry, I just can't get excited over something that silly.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 25, 2016 15:35:14 GMT
How is it close to DAI, since in the latter the background was recognized (not much, but it wasn't much in the trilogy either)? I don't mind being concerned and critical of the feature (since I'm a bit concerned as well), but I don't see how on earth is similar to DAI, where we did get different classes AND backgrounds (instead of the single one we got for Andromeda). I can see (I don't agree with, but I can understand) the comparison between games in terms of exploration, but not for classes and backgrounds. Speaking just generally from the collective information thus far...not specifically classes. And more abstractly from the perceived shortcut decision making in MEA and from which DAI partially suffered. If you want to disagree, that's cool. I realize lots of people really love DAI...I wish I were one of them. But I don't and I was hoping they'd move away from those things that made it a tedious experience imo. Not only do they seem to be reinforcing the boring grinding portion of it, but seem to be eliminating many of the elements that made ME a distinct gaming experience from the DA franchise (I guess that was as much my point as any). I gotta wonder how (bigger) fans of DA would react if Bioware would eliminate classes (just fyi that might be next). Just swap between playing as a mage, archer, sword-n-shield tank as it suits you for a given encounter. Sounds pretty stupid, right? Makes no sense if one minute your a mage stomping Templar, the next tossing about fireballs. Nevermind that it should take years to master one set of class skills, let alone all of them. Sorry, I just can't get excited over something that silly. it's not going to happen in da since the classes in da have always been a huge part of the story.
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The Elder King
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 19631
Posts: 6,370 Likes: 8,285
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 25, 2016 15:36:21 GMT
How is it close to DAI, since in the latter the background was recognized (not much, but it wasn't much in the trilogy either)? I don't mind being concerned and critical of the feature (since I'm a bit concerned as well), but I don't see how on earth is similar to DAI, where we did get different classes AND backgrounds (instead of the single one we got for Andromeda). I can see (I don't agree with, but I can understand) the comparison between games in terms of exploration, but not for classes and backgrounds. Speaking just generally from the collective information thus far...not specifically classes. And more abstractly from the perceived shortcut decision making in MEA and from which DAI partially suffered. If you want to disagree, that's cool. I realize lots of people really love DAI...I wish I were one of them. But I don't and I was hoping they'd move away from those things that made it a tedious experience imo. Not only do they seem to be reinforcing the boring grinding portion of it, but seem to be eliminating many of the elements that made ME a distinct gaming experience from the DA franchise (I guess that was as much my point as any). I gotta wonder how (bigger) fans of DA would react if Bioware would eliminate classes (just fyi that might be next). Just swap between playing as a mage, archer, sword-n-shield tank as it suits you for a given encounter. Sounds pretty stupid, right? Makes no sense if one minute your a mage stomping Templar, the next tossing about fireballs. Nevermind that it should take years to master one set of class skills, let alone all of them. Sorry, I just can't get excited over something that silly. I did say I have concerns about the removal of classes, from a lore perspective. But I still don't see how it's relevant on the topic of making it more similar for DAI. Again, you mention removing the elements that make ME different from DA, when the removal of classes actually make the game different from DA. If you think there are other elements that make the two IP similar, it's fine, but this doesn't. Also, while you might be right on bioware wanting to make the two IP more similar, if that's the case, it's not about making ME less different from DA. It's about making both similar to each other. The decision to use frostbite and go open world was a company decision, not simply about DA. We knew this since the GI videos for DAI. They decided to follow a similar vision for both games. It's not about Andromeda copying DAI, as well as DA2 wasn't copying ME2. I like both franchises, I don't favour one over the other and I wasn't completely a fan of the new elements in DAI. I hope they managed to improve on them in Andromeda, that's all. On the topic of classes, unless we'll start from a mate background and they develop the trees from that, giving the choice to develop more magic or weapon training or stealth or whatever, there's little chance of the classless system happening, since there are heavy consequences on being a mage, more so then being a biotic in ME.
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Post by fialka on Dec 25, 2016 16:27:37 GMT
In Mass Effect, the crossover class mechanic's always been there... at least in 2 and 3. My pure biotic was able to use a sniper rifle - I didn't find that unimmersive because she was a trained soldier. It only made sense that at some point in her N7 days someone would have taught her how to shoot one. She could also unlock tech powers in the med-bay, which made sense because theoretically everyone in that universe can own an omnitool and buy the software. Again, at some point in her military training I would hope she'd have learned how to install an app and push a button. It sounds like the new classless system just expands on that. Don't get me wrong, the profile switching seems a bit weird - if it's all about freedom, why can't we just have access to all (or at least more than three) of our favorite powers at once, regardless of category? Was it really that difficult to design the UI to accommodate that? Still, I'll wait and see how it works out in the game before I go into freak-out mode over it. It makes sense in the ME universe for someone's skills to be more well-rounded. As opposed to Dragon Age, where a mage stuck in a tower isn't going to get a lot of opportunity to pick up a sword and shield. But if anything, dividing Rogue/Warrior into separate classes seems a little arbitrary, and in DAO and DA2 it kinda showed, where a warrior class could use dual weapons or be an archer, and why not? That actually got removed in DAI and people were disappointed by it. But, why shouldn't a warrior learn how to pick a lock? Are they too honorable? Too dumb? Again, it's all arbitrary 'because, class' stuff. Also, crossover classes existed for our companions - Cole and Fenris both had magic-like abilities. Actually, specializations did that too to some extent - with Templars and Arcane Warriors and such. Anyway I liked that I could create a sword-wielding battlemage, or a rogue who used invisibility spells and trap runes in Skyrim. The fact that I could mix and match from a pool of everything added replayability rather than taking from it. For a more sci-fi example, in Fallout you could mix and match weapon and science and sneak skills - all are available but to make a strong character you specialize. So I'm hoping this new system in ME does in fact give us the freedom to be more creative in how we build our characters and isn't designed to just let us be good at everything like some might fear. Again, a super-brief article with a few-sentence answer isn't going to tell us that no matter how much speculation BSNers throw at it
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2016 18:10:04 GMT
In Mass Effect, the crossover class mechanic's always been there... at least in 2 and 3. My pure biotic was able to use a sniper rifle - I didn't find that unimmersive because she was a trained soldier. It only made sense that at some point in her N7 days someone would have taught her how to shoot one. She could also unlock tech powers in the med-bay, which made sense because theoretically everyone in that universe can own an omnitool and buy the software. Again, at some point in her military training I would hope she'd have learned how to install an app and push a button. It sounds like the new classless system just expands on that. Don't get me wrong, the profile switching seems a bit weird - if it's all about freedom, why can't we just have access to all (or at least more than three) of our favorite powers at once, regardless of category? Was it really that difficult to design the UI to accommodate that? Still, I'll wait and see how it works out in the game before I go into freak-out mode over it. It makes sense in the ME universe for someone's skills to be more well-rounded. As opposed to Dragon Age, where a mage stuck in a tower isn't going to get a lot of opportunity to pick up a sword and shield. But if anything, dividing Rogue/Warrior into separate classes seems a little arbitrary, and in DAO and DA2 it kinda showed, where a warrior class could use dual weapons or be an archer, and why not? That actually got removed in DAI and people were disappointed by it. But, why shouldn't a warrior learn how to pick a lock? Are they too honorable? Too dumb? Again, it's all arbitrary 'because, class' stuff. Also, crossover classes existed for our companions - Cole and Fenris both had magic-like abilities. Actually, specializations did that too to some extent - with Templars and Arcane Warriors and such. If only it were that simple, unfortunately everything you mention is the result of gameplay-story segregation, A non-biotic Shepard does not magically get biotic talents upon researching anarbitrary upgrade at the research terminal. So while theoretically a biotic Adept could be an become expert engineer, the reverse is categorically impossible, creating a gameplay imbalance in which non biotic characters are seriously disadvantaged. Likewise even though modern day commandoes continue to be trained in a much wider variety of weaponry and non-standard equipment than soldiers of an earlier age, they are certainly not drone or electronic warfare specialists. Advanced systems still require specially trained individuals to maintain and control them. The same goes for Mass Effect were soldiers do not have the knowhow to manipulate technological systems as effectively as let's say engineers or infiltrators. Personally I liked the idea that different combat specialisation have various level of proficency with certain weapons, not to the extent of ME1 where untrained weapons were practically unusable, but I do think dedicated marksman should be more proficent in using sniper rifles than field engineers. Removing classes may be beneficial but I do would like to keep a general distinction between biotic, tech and combat, so the gameplay diversity does not get dilluted.
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Post by hammerstorm on Dec 25, 2016 18:14:26 GMT
In Mass Effect, the crossover class mechanic's always been there... at least in 2 and 3. My pure biotic was able to use a sniper rifle - I didn't find that unimmersive because she was a trained soldier. It only made sense that at some point in her N7 days someone would have taught her how to shoot one. She could also unlock tech powers in the med-bay, which made sense because theoretically everyone in that universe can own an omnitool and buy the software. Again, at some point in her military training I would hope she'd have learned how to install an app and push a button. It sounds like the new classless system just expands on that. Don't get me wrong, the profile switching seems a bit weird - if it's all about freedom, why can't we just have access to all (or at least more than three) of our favorite powers at once, regardless of category? Was it really that difficult to design the UI to accommodate that? Still, I'll wait and see how it works out in the game before I go into freak-out mode over it. It makes sense in the ME universe for someone's skills to be more well-rounded. As opposed to Dragon Age, where a mage stuck in a tower isn't going to get a lot of opportunity to pick up a sword and shield. But if anything, dividing Rogue/Warrior into separate classes seems a little arbitrary, and in DAO and DA2 it kinda showed, where a warrior class could use dual weapons or be an archer, and why not? That actually got removed in DAI and people were disappointed by it. But, why shouldn't a warrior learn how to pick a lock? Are they too honorable? Too dumb? Again, it's all arbitrary 'because, class' stuff. Also, crossover classes existed for our companions - Cole and Fenris both had magic-like abilities. Actually, specializations did that too to some extent - with Templars and Arcane Warriors and such. If only it were that simple, unfortunately everything you mention is the result of gameplay-story segregation, A non-biotic Shepard does not magically get biotic talents upon researching anarbitrary upgrade at the research terminal. So while theoretically a biotic Adept could be an become expert engineer, the reverse is categorically impossible, creating a gameplay imbalance in which non biotic characters are seriously disadvantaged. Likewise even though modern day commandoes continue to be trained in a much wider variety of weaponry and non-standard equipment than soldiers of an earlier age, they are certainly not drone or electronic warfare specialists. Advanced systems still require specially trained individuals to maintain and control them. The same goes for Mass Effect were soldiers do not have the knowhow to manipulate technological systems as effectively as let's say engineers or infiltrators. Personally I liked the idea that different combat specialisation have various level of proficency with certain weapons, not to the extent of ME1 where untrained weapons were practically unusable, but I do think dedicated marksman should be more proficent in using sniper rifles than field engineers. Removing classes may be beneficial but I do would like to keep a general distinction between biotic, tech and combat, so the gameplay diversity does not get dilluted. But they said that if you try to do everything you will not be an expert. Instead you will be a Jack of all trades. So if you want to be better at Biotic than at tech, you will have to focus on those skills.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Dec 25, 2016 20:59:36 GMT
I mean, at the point you are going to be upset about an engineer having sniping expertise or biotic powers, it gets hard to play the game at all. With as many issues as people have with the kit-switching the devs have described, you would think there would have been numerous posts during the original trilogy of how it was "immersion breaking" and "illogical" for someone to spontaneously learn a new biotic power (singularity for example) in the middle of a mission just because they have "leveled up".
I don't look at it as traditional "classes". I look at what they described as "loadouts". Want a stealth loudout? That has abilities more geared to an Infiltrator. Going against tech/robots? Switch to Engineering loadouts. Etc. It's not like their expertise switches. It's like a soldier switching his weaponry and gear around for a quiet extraction mission vs a ground assault.
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Post by jtav on Dec 25, 2016 21:40:07 GMT
It sounds to me like the loudouts are just a way to switch out which three abilities of those you've already put XP into. The MEA equivalent pf me swapping out Leaping Shot for Full Draw in the hotbar. We already knew the system was classless.
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Post by Xerxes52 on Dec 25, 2016 22:29:46 GMT
I'm not bothered by the whole power loadout/profile thing. That will probably get me to try out more powers, rather than having to set up another character just to try out different classes.
One question though, since biotics come from eezo nodules in the nervous system, which are then fired via physical mnemonics (i.e. certain moves trigger specific neurons to activate a specific ability), why couldn't this be replicated by artificial means and controlled by a computerized system?
I think it would be possible to add micro eezo cores to a suit or omni-tool, and have an on-board fire control computer or VI (Sam anyone?) fire the abilities on the user's command.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Dec 25, 2016 22:46:42 GMT
Really not liking the idea of a "class profile. Please tell me that gets thrown out or is a lie. It sounds like it would kill the immersion so to speak. When playing ME3 and having that extra power you get from loyalty missions and such that squadmates have it was a tough one since my engineer could suddenly have "flare" and be a biotic bada**
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Post by garrusfan1 on Dec 25, 2016 22:48:18 GMT
Yeah, I'm not loving the idea of swapping loadouts. It definitely kills replaybility a bit. Also, for those who just LOVE to talk about immersion breaking, isn't this a huge case of that? Suddenly Sara, who is mostly an engineer, is able to just become a vanguard because it's convenient for the battle she's about to go into? Not loving that. *´¨) ¸.•´¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨) (¸.•´ (¸.•` ¤ Mass Effect Andromeda
Why not loving that? Sounds like a win-win to me. You can choose not to switch profiles, you know. but it might make it impossible to play like that. If say you play as an adept and it puts you into a situation that you need a tech person for it might be almost mandatory in terms of how hard it would be otherwise
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Post by hammerstorm on Dec 25, 2016 22:57:33 GMT
*´¨) ¸.•´¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨) (¸.•´ (¸.•` ¤ Mass Effect Andromeda
Why not loving that? Sounds like a win-win to me. You can choose not to switch profiles, you know. but it might make it impossible to play like that. If say you play as an adept and it puts you into a situation that you need a tech person for it might be almost mandatory in terms of how hard it would be otherwise Then you either have a tech in the squad OR get better. I have really hard to imagine that they should force people to use all powers. They didn't do it in the OT and there is NO hard evidence that they are going that way, so I don't see how people jump to that conclusion.
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Post by franklydeer on Dec 25, 2016 23:25:54 GMT
"They are very different in terms of personality. I find that Scott and Sarah act differently towards different situations." "So, Sarah responds maybe different than Scott responds, just depending on the situation and the personality of the people involved."No. Stop. "Sort of. The story is the same, but the options and voiceover and personality that comes out is different between Scott and Sarah. The writers have gone through to make sure that the responses that Scott says and the responses that Sarah says are different, because they're two individual characters and they're not the same person."Ugh. Ughhhhhhh. UGhhhhhhhhHHhhhhhhhh. Why. I know this is a very premature worry but, honestly, nothing about that sounds appealing to me. The personality systems have had their ups and downs, and I might be in a minority here, but I liked my Inquisitor better than Hawke as a main character that you take control and play as. Hawke seemed too much of a set character that you simply guided rather than one you got to flesh out. I did feel my Inquisitor was very bland and that is definitely something to improve, but this information sounds like it went in the complete opposite direction and regressed to the other extreme. Plus the "individual characters" comment....shouldn't they be left up to the player and not pre-determined? I don't want to have to play as the opposite gender because my character's personality is grating at my nerves. And, going solely based off the gameplay footage we got and listening to Sara's dialogue in conversations and the way it was presented("All I see is the trail of bodies they left behind," "A hot head, great," etc.) leads me to believe that her set disposition is more brazen and cocky....a character type I honestly don't want to be stuck playing as. It sounds like we get a lot of choices of how Sara or Scott respond to a situation, but they will have a set personality in how they deliver those responses. I'm not going to jump the gun and will wait and see as more info is released (they said more on the dialogue system in January) but as of now this makes me sad. Not wanting to be a spoilsport/negative nancy as I am happy that some people like a defined protagonist, it's just not for me~ Will cross my fingers and hope that I am just misunderstanding things going off this little info. (Which I probably am, honestly.) On a different note, I'm looking forward to the references of past characters. Those are always fun.
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Post by Thrombin on Dec 26, 2016 2:15:05 GMT
So.. then he could be completely off in saying the personalities are different at all? I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. And, well technically you can still get the best ending with SP war assets alone and don't necessarily need MP, but I get the issue people have with it. He technically lied about the Shepard breathing scene not requiring MP since 50% of all available War Assets were always short of 4000 (only 3700 possible without mp and with full imports). Just from ME3 alone, can't trust any information from him regarding anything on Andromeda at all, period. It was actually possible to get 100% Galactic Readiness without MP. You use the ME3 datapad app (that's what I did): masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_Effect_3:_Datapad
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2016 2:22:09 GMT
He technically lied about the Shepard breathing scene not requiring MP since 50% of all available War Assets were always short of 4000 (only 3700 possible without mp and with full imports). Just from ME3 alone, can't trust any information from him regarding anything on Andromeda at all, period. It was actually possible to get 100% Galactic Readiness without MP. You use the ME3 datapad app (that's what I did): masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_Effect_3:_DatapadForcing mobile phone apps doesn't exactly remove the MP requirement. It's as stupid as saying you don't need electricity to power your electronic devices. People are SOL if they don't have nor want to use such devices. Still doesn't remove the fact MP is mandatory for the "gamers only" crowd.
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Post by Thrombin on Dec 26, 2016 2:31:51 GMT
From the wiki: So if you reconfigure what was previously a biotic implant so that it interfaces with an omni-tool then it is no longer available to interface with your bio-amp which means you cease to be able to use your biotics but can now access a tech ability instead. why connect two unrelated devices that can run separately at the same time (sentinels) and make them into one device that can only use one set of abilities at one time? How does that MAKE ANY SENSE??????? That's not what I was suggesting at all. Here's an analogy. Pretend you have three computers each with a Keyboard, Mouse and Monitor: Office Computer: Connects to a Printer, Memory Stick and Mobile Phone Gaming Computer: Connects to two Game Controllers and a memory stick Graphic Design Computer: Connects to Printer/Scanner, Graphics Tablet and External Hard Drive In this analogy each of those computers represent a class. The connections are hard-wired so they can only be used for those purposes. Then someone invents the USB port and creates a computer with 3 USB ports instead. Same number of connections but now you can connect any of the above peripherals in any configuration you want but still with a maximum of three at any one time. All the driver software (i.e. training, natural biotic ability) has already been installed so all you need to reconfigure (i.e. change your profile) is to unplug the devices you don't want and plug in the ones you do want. My theory is that the pathfinders have implants which now act like USB's in that, unlike the ones Shepard uses, they can interface with whatever they need to for the task at hand.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Dec 26, 2016 2:34:45 GMT
but it might make it impossible to play like that. If say you play as an adept and it puts you into a situation that you need a tech person for it might be almost mandatory in terms of how hard it would be otherwise Then you either have a tech in the squad OR get better. I have really hard to imagine that they should force people to use all powers. They didn't do it in the OT and there is NO hard evidence that they are going that way, so I don't see how people jump to that conclusion. true. When it comes to gameplay I am one of the wait and see people. I am just saying I don't like the idea. I have been wrong so many times before so just me thinking out loud
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Post by Thrombin on Dec 26, 2016 2:40:09 GMT
Forcing mobile phone apps doesn't exactly remove the MP requirement. It's as stupid as saying you don't need electricity to power your electronic devices. People are SOL if they don't have nor want to use such devices. Still doesn't remove the fact MP is mandatory for the "gamers only" crowd. It removed my MP requirement. The point is, as long as it can be done without MP then it's not a lie to say that it can be done without MP. Regardless of how available or desirable such an alternative might be. To be honest, I doubt he had that in mind when he said it, though. It is more likely he was just mistaken. There'd be zero motivation for an outright lie and I think anyone who thinks he was deliberately lying is being way too cynical.
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