Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Jan 5, 2017 15:55:42 GMT
Except this isn't really a classless system. Fallout has a classless system. You pick what weapons or skills you want to use and put points into whatever makes you better at them. You can do anything, but you can't do EVERYTHING. Here you have access to ALL the classes at once, and simply switch them out whenever it's convenient to you. But that's not how it works. The vast majority of your abilities remain the same when you swap profiles. The Engineer profile we saw added one ability only and it's likely you could only unlock the profile in the first place by already having put skill points in a lot of tech skills. If you can only unlock profiles by aiming your skill allocation towards those profiles then this idea of being able to do everything just doesn't apply. If you spread your skills out over all three trees, chances are you can't unlock any of the other profiles apart from the Explorer one. Or at least not progress those profiles to any great extent. One skill and a boatload of passives changed, I saw. Who needs training when you can just let your implants run everything? OMG, RYDER CONFIRMS SYNTHESIS CANON!!!!
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Post by bshep on Jan 5, 2017 16:02:25 GMT
Besides as people stated before it's really not that much of a problem since there isn't any kind of lore breaking in this. Shepard could use any kind of power in previous games, the only difference was that he/she chould only change profile between games. Which is really just gameplay and story segregation, since class abilities changed from one game to the next, and players may want to respec if their chosen class was no longer enjoyable to them. But Ryder appears to be implanted with autobots or something, making him biotic or not, expert at any weapon he/she chooses, etc... Shepard was a biotic regardeless of which profile you choose, the game says it. We can't use the excuse of gameplay mechanic to Shepard but now somehow say that Ryder is "breaking the lore" when the only difference is that before we could only do the change between playthrough but now we can do it in the middle of it. Is this the new "OMG the Asari is super ugly" ?
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Post by Iakus on Jan 5, 2017 16:07:55 GMT
Which is really just gameplay and story segregation, since class abilities changed from one game to the next, and players may want to respec if their chosen class was no longer enjoyable to them. But Ryder appears to be implanted with autobots or something, making him biotic or not, expert at any weapon he/she chooses, etc... Shepard was a biotic regardeless of which profile you choose, the game says it. We can't use the excuse of gameplay mechanic to Shepard but now somehow say that Ryder is "breaking the lore" when the only difference is that before we could only do the change between playthrough but now we can do it in the middle of it. Is this the new "OMG the Asari is super ugly" ? Citation needed. I primarily played an infiltrator in the trilogy and was never referred to as a biotic as one. And yes, if Ryder can become an instant expert in specific weapons weapons on the fly, turn biotics on and off at will all with the flip of a switch (or whatever) that pretty much fraks up the lore.
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Post by bshep on Jan 5, 2017 16:11:16 GMT
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Post by themikefest on Jan 5, 2017 16:26:10 GMT
Is this the new "OMG the Asari is super ugly" ? The asari are ugly.
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Post by Ahriman on Jan 5, 2017 16:35:25 GMT
Which is really just gameplay and story segregation, since class abilities changed from one game to the next, and players may want to respec if their chosen class was no longer enjoyable to them. But Ryder appears to be implanted with autobots or something, making him biotic or not, expert at any weapon he/she chooses, etc... Shepard was a biotic regardeless of which profile you choose, the game says it. What?
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Post by themikefest on Jan 5, 2017 16:37:32 GMT
This what it says about Shepard in the timeline
2168 CE
Shepard receives secondary exposure to element zero. Permanent biotic inclination manifests.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 16:41:36 GMT
The actual timeline from the codex mentions nothing of it. I'd call it fanfiction. The wiki is certainly interesting but it isn't a very reliable source for information outside of direct quotations.
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Post by amoebae on Jan 5, 2017 16:42:12 GMT
Another great benefit of this new system is that we will have more freedom around which squad mates we want with us at any given time.
More than once I've built a character around which squad mates I want along for the ride -- oftentimes including who Shepard (or my Inquisitor, for example) would romance. "My Garrus romance will be my adept," and so on. Now, it's not necessary to perfectly balance your squad abilities, but on harder difficulties certainly it is more rewarding to do so. This often meant I'd feel (rationally or not) locked into a particular squad lineup for 90% of any play through.
With this new system, I'll feel better able to use the squad I want, when I want, because I'll be able to synergise Ryder's skill set to compliment whatever group I bring along. Just as a less restrictive class system expands roleplaying opportunities in terms of backstory and combat trajectory, so too does the ability to bring along squad members now based on a whole host of story, strategy and combat reasons.
I see very little in the way of a downside to this opening up of skills. Players are still free to specialise in one combat style and build their character's story in accordance with that, but we're no longer forced in that direction and have more freedom.
And that's what we want, isn't it? That's what we always ask for. More freedom to build our characters the way we want.
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Post by Ahriman on Jan 5, 2017 16:43:26 GMT
This what it says about Shepard in the timeline 2168 CE Shepard receives secondary exposure to element zero. Permanent biotic inclination manifests. That's for the case of biotic Shepard. Thought it was obvious to everyone until today. The actual timeline from the codex mentions nothing of it. I'd call it fanfiction. The wiki is certainly interesting but it isn't a very reliable source for information outside of direct quotations. It's 99% clear from fanfiction, but it uses information from all kinds of resources, including comics, books and even tweets from devs.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 5, 2017 16:55:57 GMT
That's for the case of biotic Shepard. Thought it was obvious to everyone until today. I know its for a biotic Shepard. I just posted that from the link the above poster provided
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Post by Thrombin on Jan 5, 2017 17:01:44 GMT
One skill and a boatload of passives changed, I saw. Who needs training when you can just let your implants run everything? OMG, RYDER CONFIRMS SYNTHESIS CANON!!!! It didn't really change passives it just gave you bonuses to tech skills. Which is the same as upgrading your OmniTool did in ME1 or Glyph applying a bit of Intel in ME3. But what is training if not Xp and skill point allocation? Both of which you need in order to unlock the profile. Even with training you needed the implants to enable your abilities. That is already canon.
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Post by Thrombin on Jan 5, 2017 17:05:25 GMT
Which is really just gameplay and story segregation, since class abilities changed from one game to the next, and players may want to respec if their chosen class was no longer enjoyable to them. But Ryder appears to be implanted with autobots or something, making him biotic or not, expert at any weapon he/she chooses, etc... Shepard was a biotic regardeless of which profile you choose, the game says it. We can't use the excuse of gameplay mechanic to Shepard but now somehow say that Ryder is "breaking the lore" when the only difference is that before we could only do the change between playthrough but now we can do it in the middle of it. Is this the new "OMG the Asari is super ugly" ? Actually you could change between a biotic skill or a non-biotic skill in ME3 mid-game too. It was called changing your bonus power and you could do it multiple times in the med bay if you had enough money!
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Post by Thrombin on Jan 5, 2017 17:09:19 GMT
Citation needed. I primarily played an infiltrator in the trilogy and was never referred to as a biotic as one. And yes, if Ryder can become an instant expert in specific weapons weapons on the fly, turn biotics on and off at will all with the flip of a switch (or whatever) that pretty much fraks up the lore. The Ryder's are biotic and have trained in biotics and tech. That's already been stated. Nothing anti-lore in that. Neither is there anything anti-lore about a switch between being able to use a biotic ability or not as it is already part of the lore that different biotic abilities are enabled by different biotic implants. The only new thing is the ability to reconfigure an implant from being a biotic implant to being a tech implant or vice-versa. Which, at the end of the day is just technology. I don't see why that would violate the lore either.
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Post by KirkyX on Jan 5, 2017 17:17:41 GMT
I made a few .gifs - mainly spaceship porn, as you'd expect - from the trailer, and I thought I'd drop them here in case anyone wants them: (No idea why, but I just love the Tempest's blinky navigation lights. ) Landing gear detail shot (sorry for all the compression; only way I could make it a sane size without dropping frames): And finally good ol' Peeb, who has possibly my favourite class name in the whole history of RPGs: I'm a Tired Academic Level 21, personally.
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Post by Iakus on Jan 5, 2017 17:18:37 GMT
One skill and a boatload of passives changed, I saw. Who needs training when you can just let your implants run everything? OMG, RYDER CONFIRMS SYNTHESIS CANON!!!! It didn't really change passives it just gave you bonuses to tech skills. Which is the same as upgrading your OmniTool did in ME1 or Glyph applying a bit of Intel in ME3. But what is training if not Xp and skill point allocation? Both of which you need in order to unlock the profile. Even with training you needed the implants to enable your abilities. That is already canon. And you get those bonuses by unlocking lore, by purchasing the omnitool. You don't just get them by flipping a switch and suddenly you're better with a sniper rifle than a tech power! Where, where does it say the Ryders are canonically biotic? And yes, it is anti-lore. How do you get different biotic implants? By undergoing risky BRAIN SURGERY! It's why Kaidan sticks wit the L2s despite the migraines they give him. They're better than risking becoming permanently brain damaged by a botched surgery. But Ryder? Ryder simply wills new implants into existence! It's not just technology, it's biology!
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Post by Iakus on Jan 5, 2017 17:19:53 GMT
And finally good ol' Peeb, who has possibly my favourite class name in the whole history of RPGs: I'm a Tired Academic Level 21, personally. That must be her armored look
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 5, 2017 17:23:59 GMT
And finally good ol' Peeb, who has possibly my favourite class name in the whole history of RPGs: I'm a Tired Academic Level 21, personally. That must be her armored look She looks angry someone's peed her off I guess.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 17:35:22 GMT
Sometimes less is more. I don't Mass Effect would be nearly as popular if Shepard's powers were a free for all. The skill limitations imposed by the class system were a deliberate attempt to create a sense of grip and consistency that would be lost otherwise. Players know that choicing a particular class is committing to a certain skillset. Like Shepard's origin his/her class is a part of the worldbuilding and Shepard's identity. In terms of Gameplay, the system did allow for different playstyles even within the same class, something that once again would be dilluted if skills are all player chosen. There was an important psychological barrier between each class, one that would't be their in system where powers could be easily swapped.
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Post by Thrombin on Jan 5, 2017 17:37:20 GMT
It didn't really change passives it just gave you bonuses to tech skills. Which is the same as upgrading your OmniTool did in ME1 or Glyph applying a bit of Intel in ME3. But what is training if not Xp and skill point allocation? Both of which you need in order to unlock the profile. Even with training you needed the implants to enable your abilities. That is already canon. And you get those bonuses by unlocking lore, by purchasing the omnitool. You don't just get them by flipping a switch and suddenly you're better with a sniper rifle than a tech power! Technology is technology. What else are engineer implants doing if not augmenting the tech abilities of their omni-tools? I don't see the distinction. The power that infiltrators use to slow time down when using a sniper rifle is down to their implants. It's technology. Remember there's even an upgrade you can attach to your sniper rifle to do it! If tech can enable it then tech can disable it and enable something else. You can do a lot of things by flicking a switch. I can flick a switch on my harmony remote and turn on a TV, Xbox , Sky Box and Amplifier and then change them all the the right channels. The president of the USA can flick a switch and fire a nuclear missile. There's nothing trivial about what you can do by 'flicking a switch'! I think it was the first AI briefing video that mentioned that the pathfinders had all had biotic and tech training. Or it may have been an interview somewhere. It's definitely known info. Implants are not just brain implants, by the way. Look at the class select screens and you'll see each class has a whole network of implants throughout their body. In any case, the implant has already been implanted. It just happens to be an implant that can be re-configured. That could be as simple as it being some prototype tech that can be remotely reconfigured by uploading different software/firmware or it could be that special nanobots are available to physically move bits around. We don't know yet but we know it makes the pathfinders special. The point is, the implant is already implanted and the only thing switching profiles does is change one bit of tech to another bit of tech. So I see no reason why it would contradict the lore in any way.
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Post by amoebae on Jan 5, 2017 17:44:31 GMT
The game itself literally declares the Ryders as canonical biotics by virtue of them being able to use biotic powers in every play through. Why do we need more than that?
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Post by amoebae on Jan 5, 2017 17:46:28 GMT
And finally good ol' Peeb, who has possibly my favourite class name in the whole history of RPGs: I'm a Tired Academic Level 21, personally. Retired Academic, Level 38 here
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Post by dalinne on Jan 5, 2017 17:59:02 GMT
And finally good ol' Peeb, who has possibly my favourite class name in the whole history of RPGs: I'm a Tired Academic Level 21, personally. Retired Academic, Level 38 here Desperate Academic, Level 27
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 18:03:59 GMT
Not that much new stuff but nice to see character screens and some leveling and skills. Looks pretty solid at fist glance at least. Still thorn when it comes to the combat. Just looks messy to me and what are the companions doing? You hardly see them in any of the combat clips but I may just be blind (getting old). Not to sure about the whole switching skills and powers whenever you want. Fears it may take some challenge out of playing if you can spec yourself perfectly for whatever you may meet. If they don't want classes I think for me it would have felt better with some system like Elder Scrolls or Fallout have now.
Oh well we'll see how it turns out soon enough.
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Post by SofNascimento on Jan 5, 2017 18:04:24 GMT
That's a very nice costume to explore an alien world full of lava and hostile robots.
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