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Post by dragontartare on Jan 30, 2017 6:12:22 GMT
I did Jack's quite some time ago, and saved Miranda for last since there were two more recruiting missions on the same planet. (I was delaying the collector ship mission by holding off on getting my 8th squad mate.) I remember recruiting Zaeed almost by accident on Omega since he is right there by the entrance, and I didn't know if either recruitment on Ilium would be similar. I didn't want to "accidentally" get my 8th person and trigger the collector ship mission before I was ready. I know now that both of those recruitment missions are very deliberate, but I don't want to go that far back and redo all those missions. Here is what my morality meters look like. Should I have been able to keep or regain Miranda's loyalty with this?  If you did Jack's loyalty mission first and then waited for however long to do Miranda's loyalty mission, it will be that much harder to keep both loyal. The longer you wait to complete one their loyalty missions, the higher your paragon/renegade has to be. As I said in this thread. If I want both loyal and to remain loyal, I do Miranda's loyalty mission right after completing Horizon. Once done, Jack will want to talk with Shepard. Talk to her. Then go complete her loyalty mission. When facing both, the red and blue dialogue will be available that will keep both loyal.
Since you've completed Miranda's loyalty mission and she isn't loyal, don't worry too much about getting her loyalty back. When you get ready to start the suicide mission, I will explain why? Yeah, I remember seeing your advice when you first gave it, but it was already too late unless I was willing to load an older save. I'd prefer to just continue playing this out and see where it ends up, rather than lose days of work redoing everything since Horizon. I'll check back with you later to find out how to keep Miranda alive if I can't get her loyalty back.
Any general advice on the Tali/Legion argument later? I have Tali but haven't gone to get the IFF yet. (In case it matters, I just got Samara but don't have Thane yet.) Is it better to do Tali's loyalty mission now, or wait until I have Legion and then do both of theirs back to back? Or does it not matter with them? As a general question...I know several of you explained that the ratio of morality points earned to morality points possible is what is important. Is the meter not a reliable indication of this ratio? I thought maybe each segment represented 20% (since there are 5 of them), so if your paragon meter filled the first two segments, for instance, that would mean you've earned 40% of the paragon points available up to that point in the game. Is that not what the meter shows? If not, is there a better way of finding out where my ratio truly stands? |
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Jan 30, 2017 7:33:02 GMT
I did Miranda's loyalty mission again and managed to pick up a few more paragon points, while avoiding a renegade interrupt that I'd used earlier. It still wasn't enough to keep the loyalty of both Miranda and Jack. I went with the advice I received and sided with Jack. Miranda at least opens a dialogue wheel with me, though the paragon and renegade choices are still grayed out, so all I can do is tell her I want to talk and have her sulk at me like a teenager.
After Tali's recruitment mission and the collector ship mission, my paragon meter is about half way up, and my renegade meter is right around the first bar. I don't really know what that means, except that I'm not extreme enough to make Miranda listen to me. Hopefully I can change that, but if I can't make her loyal again, then I will definitely use that Suicide Mission guide in this forum that's been staring me in the face for a few weeks now. As for the collector ship mission, it was pretty awesome to play. Eerie environment, and those husks creeped me out. However, now I'm waiting for the Illusive Man to pull a Solas before the end of the game  A bit of a whine session here: I hate that I feel like I have to play a pure paragon (or pure renegade, I guess?) or I risk losing more people. During the collector mission, there were so many times I wanted to choose a renegade dialogue choice for roleplay reasons, but felt I couldn't if I want any chance of getting Miranda back. Does this system continue in ME3? ME3 Paragon/Renegade is much simpler and easier because (I don't think this is a spoiler? but): It collects all points and combines them into one reputation meter. There are still paragon/renegade speech checks and actions but you have complete freedom. So even if you're 100% paragon but want to select a renegade speech option at some point you totally can.
You will also gain a small bonus from importing your ME2 file.
ME2 (and even ME1) are pretty unfair in how they discourage you from playing how you want, like being in the middle, so I think that ME3 is a big improvement in this respect. TBH... I still don't understand how the reputation system works in ME2 numerically. Some of the trouble might be from not having an ME1 import, which does grant a small bonus, or like UpUpAway said not selecting the skill upgrades earlier to get another boost which I think do actually help (since even just the basic upgrades do boost your reputation gains.) I didn't have trouble the first time with Miranda and Jack, but I have failed it on New Game+ before because I don't know why. I actually make Jack's loyalty mission one of the last I do (with Miranda being first mostly for practical reasons) while I beef up my reputation meters. On every new (well, imported from 1) Shep that has worked... but like I said I don't know how it works in ME2. I didn't realize putting it off longer could change the reputation requirement like themikefest said -- if it really does I guess it just doesn't affect me.
Sorry this is causing some stress. I've read it's possible to eventually gain back Miranda or Jack's loyalty, as when you speak to them you have the persuade options which are currently grayed out. If you gain enough reputation eventually one or both could unlock. It didn't work for me when I had the wtf fails, and I honestly don't know what the "amount" needed for that is. Sorry I can't be more help. Btw I like your Shepard.  Is that the iridescent blue armor color I see? Spirit Greatly Approves (not a spoiler) |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 7:51:39 GMT
If you did Jack's loyalty mission first and then waited for however long to do Miranda's loyalty mission, it will be that much harder to keep both loyal. The longer you wait to complete one their loyalty missions, the higher your paragon/renegade has to be. As I said in this thread. If I want both loyal and to remain loyal, I do Miranda's loyalty mission right after completing Horizon. Once done, Jack will want to talk with Shepard. Talk to her. Then go complete her loyalty mission. When facing both, the red and blue dialogue will be available that will keep both loyal.
Since you've completed Miranda's loyalty mission and she isn't loyal, don't worry too much about getting her loyalty back. When you get ready to start the suicide mission, I will explain why? Yeah, I remember seeing your advice when you first gave it, but it was already too late unless I was willing to load an older save. I'd prefer to just continue playing this out and see where it ends up, rather than lose days of work redoing everything since Horizon. I'll check back with you later to find out how to keep Miranda alive if I can't get her loyalty back.
Any general advice on the Tali/Legion argument later? I have Tali but haven't gone to get the IFF yet. (In case it matters, I just got Samara but don't have Thane yet.) Is it better to do Tali's loyalty mission now, or wait until I have Legion and then do both of theirs back to back? Or does it not matter with them? As a general question...I know several of you explained that the ratio of morality points earned to morality points possible is what is important. Is the meter not a reliable indication of this ratio? I thought maybe each segment represented 20% (since there are 5 of them), so if your paragon meter filled the first two segments, for instance, that would mean you've earned 40% of the paragon points available up to that point in the game. Is that not what the meter shows? If not, is there a better way of finding out where my ratio truly stands? I'm really sorry that re-spec'ing as a Mechanic didn't give you enough to get you over the top on Miranda and Jack's argument. Unfortunately, the meters aren't really that accurate, but finding out your proper ratios now is probably nigh on impossible. There is a morality guide on the Wiki that literally lists every piece of dialogue that provides either paragon or renegade points. You could go through that, picking out what you selected and what you missed and figure out a ratio and then applying your 100% P/R to that. What most (well, a lot of) people do on PC is use a save editor to dump a number of paragon and renegade points into each bar to ensure they can pass all checks. Regardless, you will want to take every possible paragon point you can from here on out... concentrating absolutely on getting that bar as high as you can get it and basically throwing the renegade bar under the bus. Which loyalty missions do you have left to do? Also, have you been to all the hubs (Omega, Citadel, Illium, and Tuchanka) and completed all the little side-quests there? To get through Samara Tali's and Thane's LM, you will probably want to be wearing the Krogan Death Mask (buy it on Tuchanka) throughout those two. They are two missions that can be easily failed without enough Paragon/Renegade points (even though there is no argument scenario afterwards). The mask is a pain in that you can see Shepard's face, but it will give you an additional P/R boost during those missions. It is a temporary boost, though; that is, your P/R bars will fall back down when you're not wearing the mask. ETA: Actually, I don't think the mask works with Samara's LM since the game changes you automatically into casual wear even though you're off the ship. It should have an effect for Thane's and Tali's though. For Tali's LM, a couple of questionns... When you first met her at Freedom's Progress... did you send Veetor with her? When you recruited Tali on Haestrom, did Reegar make it out alive? If yes to both of those, there is a way you will be able to pass Tali's LM regardless of your P/R score:
Warning: serious spoiler below: Just remember - Rally the crowd. |
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Post by themikefest on Jan 30, 2017 13:33:08 GMT
Yeah, I remember seeing your advice when you first gave it, but it was already too late unless I was willing to load an older save. I'd prefer to just continue playing this out and see where it ends up, rather than lose days of work redoing everything since Horizon. I'll check back with you later to find out how to keep Miranda alive if I can't get her loyalty back.
Any general advice on the Tali/Legion argument later? I have Tali but haven't gone to get the IFF yet. (In case it matters, I just got Samara but don't have Thane yet.) Is it better to do Tali's loyalty mission now, or wait until I have Legion and then do both of theirs back to back? Or does it not matter with them?
Before starting the IFF, complete everything. If you haven't recruited anyone that you want to recruit, do those first. Once you have all the squadmates you want, start completing the rest of the loyalty missions. If a few have not mentioned their loyalty mission yet, do a side mission or dlc then go talk with them.
With Tali, I would complete her loyalty mission especially since this is your first ME2 playthrough.
**IMPORTANT**. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE ALL UPGRADES FOR SR2. Jacob provides the armor. Garrus provides the Thanix Cannon. Tali provides shields for the ship. **MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THOSE UPGRADES**
With all that done, go get the IFF. Once done, you will be talking with Jacob and Miranda. Keep the geth. Go down to the med bay and activate it. Most likely it will mention its loyalty mission. Complete it right away. Near the end of it, you will have to make a choice. Choose to destroy the heretics. When facing Legion and Tali, if your paragon/renegade is high enough, both will remain loyal. If not, SIDE WITH LEGION. You will lose Tali's loyalty. That's fine.
Once back on the Normandy, try to see of you can regain Miranda's loyalty since you have more paragon/renegade. If not, don't worry about it. Now you're ready for the suicide mission. There was one poster who figured it out about the paragon/renegade. There was even a thread that explained it in detail. That thread is lost. What I do is if I play paragon, I get as many paragon points as possible before starting missions. That can be done on Omega and the Citadel. Even talking with all the crew. They add up very quickly |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 14:06:44 GMT
Yeah, I remember seeing your advice when you first gave it, but it was already too late unless I was willing to load an older save. I'd prefer to just continue playing this out and see where it ends up, rather than lose days of work redoing everything since Horizon. I'll check back with you later to find out how to keep Miranda alive if I can't get her loyalty back.
Any general advice on the Tali/Legion argument later? I have Tali but haven't gone to get the IFF yet. (In case it matters, I just got Samara but don't have Thane yet.) Is it better to do Tali's loyalty mission now, or wait until I have Legion and then do both of theirs back to back? Or does it not matter with them?
Before starting the IFF, complete everything. If you haven't recruited anyone that you want to recruit, do those first. Once you have all the squadmates you want, start completing the rest of the loyalty missions. If a few have not mentioned their loyalty mission yet, do a side mission or dlc then go talk with them.
With Tali, I would complete her loyalty mission especially since this is your first ME2 playthrough.
**IMPORTANT**. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE ALL UPGRADES FOR SR2. Jacob provides the armor. Garrus provides the Thanix Cannon. Tali provides shields for the ship. **NAKE SURE YOU HAVE THOSE UPGRADES**
With all that done, go get the IFF. Once done, you will be talking with Jacob and Miranda. Keep the geth. Go down to the med bay and activate it. Most likely it will mention its loyalty mission. Complete it right away. Near the end of it, you will have to make a choice. Choose to destroy the heretics. When facing Legion and Tali, if your paragon/renegade is high enough, both will remain loyal. If not, SIDE WITH LEGION. You will lose Tali's loyalty. That's fine.
Once back on the Normandy, try to see of you can regain Miranda's loyalty since you have more paragon/renegade. If not, don't worry about it. Now you're ready for the suicide mission. There was one poster who figured it out about the paragon/renegade. There was even a thread that explained it in detail. That thread is lost. What I do is if I play paragon, I get as many paragon points as possible before starting missions. That can be done on Omega and the Citadel. Even talking with all the crew. They add up very quickly Not sure if this is anything like what that poster worked up, but I keep a running tally of the paragon and renegade points I received as I received them, add in that amount again multiplied by my P/R bonus at that point in the game [e.g. Paragon Taken + (Paragon Taken X P/R Bonus)] . Then I use the morality guide from the Wiki to add up all the paragon and renegade points that were available to me at whatever point in the game I'm at. Then I do a simple ratio. Depending on which way I'm intending to lean, I keep that ratio well above 100% at all times. There are a few twists in it here and there... places where the spread between the two ratios also seems to fall into play as well as places where both have to be above 100% (at least that's what some people say about the arguments). I can't say for sure about that, since I usually have the 190 pt import bonus that makes it rather easy to keep both ratios above 100% for most of the game. I do know as long as one is over 100%, you should be able to regain the loyalty of one or the other in a subsequent conversation. It's worked well for me so far and I've cut some Shepard's pretty close to even paragon/renegade without unexpectedly failing the key checks. |
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Post by melbella on Jan 30, 2017 20:38:05 GMT
Not sure if this is anything like what that poster worked up, but I keep a running tally of the paragon and renegade points I received as I received them, multiplied by my P/R bonus at that point in the game. Then I use the morality guide from the Wiki to add up all the paragon and renegade points that were available to me at whatever point in the game I'm at. Then I do a simple ratio. Depending on which way I'm intending to lean, I keep that ratio well above 100% at all times. There are a few twists in it here and there... places where the spread between the two ratios also seems to fall into play as well as places where both have to be above 100% (at least that's what some people say about the arguments). I can't say for sure about that, since I usually have the 190 pt import bonus that makes it rather easy to keep both ratios above 100% for most of the game. I do know as long as one is over 100%, you should be able to regain the loyalty of one or the other in a subsequent conversation. It's worked well for me so far and I've cut some Shepard's pretty close to even paragon/renegade without unexpectedly failing the key checks. Wow. I'm impressed. That sounds like entirely too much work to me.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 20:59:20 GMT
Not sure if this is anything like what that poster worked up, but I keep a running tally of the paragon and renegade points I received as I received them, multiplied by my P/R bonus at that point in the game. Then I use the morality guide from the Wiki to add up all the paragon and renegade points that were available to me at whatever point in the game I'm at. Then I do a simple ratio. Depending on which way I'm intending to lean, I keep that ratio well above 100% at all times. There are a few twists in it here and there... places where the spread between the two ratios also seems to fall into play as well as places where both have to be above 100% (at least that's what some people say about the arguments). I can't say for sure about that, since I usually have the 190 pt import bonus that makes it rather easy to keep both ratios above 100% for most of the game. I do know as long as one is over 100%, you should be able to regain the loyalty of one or the other in a subsequent conversation. It's worked well for me so far and I've cut some Shepard's pretty close to even paragon/renegade without unexpectedly failing the key checks. Wow. I'm impressed. That sounds like entirely too much work to me. Not really, now that I have a spreadsheet set up. The P/R available for each mission never changes, so I pretty much just have to punch in the actual P/R I get for each mission and my P/R bonus rate. It's nothing fancy. It totals only the parts I've done (since the game doesn't count the missions you haven't done yet) and calculates the ratio based on that. As long as I keep one side or the other over 100%, I get at least one way to resolves things (either paragon or renegade), with a couple of specials that one has to watch... i.e. There is no "renegade" way to save the workers in Zaeed's LM. ETA: As an example, my spreadsheet tells me that there are 77 paragon points and 76 renegade points available through to the point where you first gain control of Shepard on the ship after you first meet EDI. In my latest playthrough (Vance Shepard), I had 190 paragon and 190 renegade bonus points for it being an ME1 playthrough which had both full paragon and renegade bars and I took an additiional 69 Paragon and 16 Renegade points during those missions for a total of 259 Paragon and 206 Renegade. At that point in the game my P/R bonus was 40%, so my total became 40% higher or 362.6 paragon and 288.4 renegade. The two ratios then were 470.91% paragon and 379.47% renegage. Conversely, where I'm at now in the playthrough (4 missions after Horizon), there are 572 paragon and 529 renegade points that have become available. I've taken 683 paragon and 368 renegade (including the 190 each bonus points). My P/R bonus is now at 100% and my ratios are 238.81% and 139.13%. The farther I go into the game, the lower these ratios will get. What's really happening is the reverse of what the bars in the game are showing... you don't accumulate points for choosing an paragon or renegade option, you lose them for not choosing the alternative option. |
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Jan 30, 2017 22:14:15 GMT
There was one poster who figured it out about the paragon/renegade. There was even a thread that explained it in detail. That thread is lost. Do you remember the thread title? It might be preserved over at fextralife. |
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Post by themikefest on Jan 30, 2017 23:33:18 GMT
This is from cap and gown.
It is for the reasons cap and gown posted that I get Miranda and Jack's mission out of the way as soon as they're available. If I want to use those options, of ocurse. It's harder to have those percentages if you're late in a playthrough and haven't been too strict about a particular path.
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Don't Tali and Legion have the same value requirements, but reversed paragon and renegade?
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Post by themikefest on Jan 30, 2017 23:34:37 GMT
Do you remember the thread title? It might be preserved over at fextralife. Didn't find the thread, but I found what was close enough to what I was referring to on that site. |
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Post by dragontartare on Jan 31, 2017 0:52:24 GMT
I did Miranda's loyalty mission again and managed to pick up a few more paragon points, while avoiding a renegade interrupt that I'd used earlier. It still wasn't enough to keep the loyalty of both Miranda and Jack. I went with the advice I received and sided with Jack. Miranda at least opens a dialogue wheel with me, though the paragon and renegade choices are still grayed out, so all I can do is tell her I want to talk and have her sulk at me like a teenager.
After Tali's recruitment mission and the collector ship mission, my paragon meter is about half way up, and my renegade meter is right around the first bar. I don't really know what that means, except that I'm not extreme enough to make Miranda listen to me. Hopefully I can change that, but if I can't make her loyal again, then I will definitely use that Suicide Mission guide in this forum that's been staring me in the face for a few weeks now. As for the collector ship mission, it was pretty awesome to play. Eerie environment, and those husks creeped me out. However, now I'm waiting for the Illusive Man to pull a Solas before the end of the game A bit of a whine session here: I hate that I feel like I have to play a pure paragon (or pure renegade, I guess?) or I risk losing more people. During the collector mission, there were so many times I wanted to choose a renegade dialogue choice for roleplay reasons, but felt I couldn't if I want any chance of getting Miranda back. Does this system continue in ME3? ME3 Paragon/Renegade is much simpler and easier because (I don't think this is a spoiler? but): It collects all points and combines them into one reputation meter. There are still paragon/renegade speech checks and actions but you have complete freedom. So even if you're 100% paragon but want to select a renegade speech option at some point you totally can.
You will also gain a small bonus from importing your ME2 file.
ME2 (and even ME1) are pretty unfair in how they discourage you from playing how you want, like being in the middle, so I think that ME3 is a big improvement in this respect. TBH... I still don't understand how the reputation system works in ME2 numerically. Some of the trouble might be from not having an ME1 import, which does grant a small bonus, or like UpUpAway said not selecting the skill upgrades earlier to get another boost which I think do actually help (since even just the basic upgrades do boost your reputation gains.) I didn't have trouble the first time with Miranda and Jack, but I have failed it on New Game+ before because I don't know why. I actually make Jack's loyalty mission one of the last I do (with Miranda being first mostly for practical reasons) while I beef up my reputation meters. On every new (well, imported from 1) Shep that has worked... but like I said I don't know how it works in ME2. I didn't realize putting it off longer could change the reputation requirement like themikefest said -- if it really does I guess it just doesn't affect me.
Sorry this is causing some stress. I've read it's possible to eventually gain back Miranda or Jack's loyalty, as when you speak to them you have the persuade options which are currently grayed out. If you gain enough reputation eventually one or both could unlock. It didn't work for me when I had the wtf fails, and I honestly don't know what the "amount" needed for that is. Sorry I can't be more help. Btw I like your Shepard. Is that the iridescent blue armor color I see?Spirit Greatly Approves (not a spoiler)Thank you! It is indeed iridescent blue. Such a practical choice  Yeah, I remember seeing your advice when you first gave it, but it was already too late unless I was willing to load an older save. I'd prefer to just continue playing this out and see where it ends up, rather than lose days of work redoing everything since Horizon. I'll check back with you later to find out how to keep Miranda alive if I can't get her loyalty back.
Any general advice on the Tali/Legion argument later? I have Tali but haven't gone to get the IFF yet. (In case it matters, I just got Samara but don't have Thane yet.) Is it better to do Tali's loyalty mission now, or wait until I have Legion and then do both of theirs back to back? Or does it not matter with them? As a general question...I know several of you explained that the ratio of morality points earned to morality points possible is what is important. Is the meter not a reliable indication of this ratio? I thought maybe each segment represented 20% (since there are 5 of them), so if your paragon meter filled the first two segments, for instance, that would mean you've earned 40% of the paragon points available up to that point in the game. Is that not what the meter shows? If not, is there a better way of finding out where my ratio truly stands? I'm really sorry that re-spec'ing as a Mechanic didn't give you enough to get you over the top on Miranda and Jack's argument. Unfortunately, the meters aren't really that accurate, but finding out your proper ratios now is probably nigh on impossible. There is a morality guide on the Wiki that literally lists every piece of dialogue that provides either paragon or renegade points. You could go through that, picking out what you selected and what you missed and figure out a ratio and then applying your 100% P/R to that. What most (well, a lot of) people do on PC is use a save editor to dump a number of paragon and renegade points into each bar to ensure they can pass all checks. Regardless, you will want to take every possible paragon point you can from here on out... concentrating absolutely on getting that bar as high as you can get it and basically throwing the renegade bar under the bus. Which loyalty missions do you have left to do? Also, have you been to all the hubs (Omega, Citadel, Illium, and Tuchanka) and completed all the little side-quests there? To get through Samara Tali's and Thane's LM, you will probably want to be wearing the Krogan Death Mask (buy it on Tuchanka) throughout those two. They are two missions that can be easily failed without enough Paragon/Renegade points (even though there is no argument scenario afterwards). The mask is a pain in that you can see Shepard's face, but it will give you an additional P/R boost during those missions. It is a temporary boost, though; that is, your P/R bars will fall back down when you're not wearing the mask. ETA: Actually, I don't think the mask works with Samara's LM since the game changes you automatically into casual wear even though you're off the ship. It should have an effect for Thane's and Tali's though. For Tali's LM, a couple of questionns... When you first met her at Freedom's Progress... did you send Veetor with her? When you recruited Tali on Haestrom, did Reegar make it out alive? If yes to both of those, there is a way you will be able to pass Tali's LM regardless of your P/R score:
Warning: serious spoiler below: Just remember - Rally the crowd. No worries about the respec not working. I didn't even realize that option was there, so it's nice to have anyway. As for Tali's LM: Reegar is alive, but I'm pretty sure I brought Veetor in for questioning. Presumably he was released afterward as TIM said he would be, unless TIM is a dirty rotten liar like I think he probably is. Also, I decided to open your serious spoiler and then laughed when it made no sense. I'm sure I'll understand it when the time comes.  This is from cap and gown. It is for the reasons cap and gown posted that I get Miranda and Jack's mission out of the way as soon as they're available. If I want to use those options, of ocurse. It's harder to have those percentages if you're late in a playthrough and haven't been too strict about a particular path. Answer Don't Tali and Legion have the same value requirements, but reversed paragon and renegade? Answer Yikes! Well, given all that, I think my best bet for this playthrough is to just keep playing paragon as much as possible, and then use a guide to get through the suicide mission. This is great advice for a second playthrough, though. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2017 0:58:25 GMT
ME3 Paragon/Renegade is much simpler and easier because (I don't think this is a spoiler? but): It collects all points and combines them into one reputation meter. There are still paragon/renegade speech checks and actions but you have complete freedom. So even if you're 100% paragon but want to select a renegade speech option at some point you totally can.
You will also gain a small bonus from importing your ME2 file.
ME2 (and even ME1) are pretty unfair in how they discourage you from playing how you want, like being in the middle, so I think that ME3 is a big improvement in this respect. TBH... I still don't understand how the reputation system works in ME2 numerically. Some of the trouble might be from not having an ME1 import, which does grant a small bonus, or like UpUpAway said not selecting the skill upgrades earlier to get another boost which I think do actually help (since even just the basic upgrades do boost your reputation gains.) I didn't have trouble the first time with Miranda and Jack, but I have failed it on New Game+ before because I don't know why. I actually make Jack's loyalty mission one of the last I do (with Miranda being first mostly for practical reasons) while I beef up my reputation meters. On every new (well, imported from 1) Shep that has worked... but like I said I don't know how it works in ME2. I didn't realize putting it off longer could change the reputation requirement like themikefest said -- if it really does I guess it just doesn't affect me.
Sorry this is causing some stress. I've read it's possible to eventually gain back Miranda or Jack's loyalty, as when you speak to them you have the persuade options which are currently grayed out. If you gain enough reputation eventually one or both could unlock. It didn't work for me when I had the wtf fails, and I honestly don't know what the "amount" needed for that is. Sorry I can't be more help. Btw I like your Shepard. Is that the iridescent blue armor color I see?Spirit Greatly Approves (not a spoiler)Thank you! It is indeed iridescent blue. Such a practical choice I'm really sorry that re-spec'ing as a Mechanic didn't give you enough to get you over the top on Miranda and Jack's argument. Unfortunately, the meters aren't really that accurate, but finding out your proper ratios now is probably nigh on impossible. There is a morality guide on the Wiki that literally lists every piece of dialogue that provides either paragon or renegade points. You could go through that, picking out what you selected and what you missed and figure out a ratio and then applying your 100% P/R to that. What most (well, a lot of) people do on PC is use a save editor to dump a number of paragon and renegade points into each bar to ensure they can pass all checks. Regardless, you will want to take every possible paragon point you can from here on out... concentrating absolutely on getting that bar as high as you can get it and basically throwing the renegade bar under the bus. Which loyalty missions do you have left to do? Also, have you been to all the hubs (Omega, Citadel, Illium, and Tuchanka) and completed all the little side-quests there? To get through Samara Tali's and Thane's LM, you will probably want to be wearing the Krogan Death Mask (buy it on Tuchanka) throughout those two. They are two missions that can be easily failed without enough Paragon/Renegade points (even though there is no argument scenario afterwards). The mask is a pain in that you can see Shepard's face, but it will give you an additional P/R boost during those missions. It is a temporary boost, though; that is, your P/R bars will fall back down when you're not wearing the mask. ETA: Actually, I don't think the mask works with Samara's LM since the game changes you automatically into casual wear even though you're off the ship. It should have an effect for Thane's and Tali's though. For Tali's LM, a couple of questionns... When you first met her at Freedom's Progress... did you send Veetor with her? When you recruited Tali on Haestrom, did Reegar make it out alive? If yes to both of those, there is a way you will be able to pass Tali's LM regardless of your P/R score:
Warning: serious spoiler below: Just remember - Rally the crowd. No worries about the respec not working. I didn't even realize that option was there, so it's nice to have anyway. As for Tali's LM: Reegar is alive, but I'm pretty sure I brought Veetor in for questioning. Presumably he was released afterward as TIM said he would be, unless TIM is a dirty rotten liar like I think he probably is. Also, I decided to open your serious spoiler and then laughed when it made no sense. I'm sure I'll understand it when the time comes. This is from cap and gown. It is for the reasons cap and gown posted that I get Miranda and Jack's mission out of the way as soon as they're available. If I want to use those options, of ocurse. It's harder to have those percentages if you're late in a playthrough and haven't been too strict about a particular path. Answer Don't Tali and Legion have the same value requirements, but reversed paragon and renegade? Answer Yikes! Well, given all that, I think my best bet for this playthrough is to just keep playing paragon as much as possible, and then use a guide to get through the suicide mission. This is great advice for a second playthrough, though. If you sent Veetor over to TIM, unfortunately, that option won't be available to you. Hopefully, your paragon ratio will be high enough to use a paragon persuade at that point... keeping my fingers crossed for you.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 31, 2017 2:07:16 GMT
Yikes! Well, given all that, I think my best bet for this playthrough is to just keep playing paragon as much as possible, and then use a guide to get through the suicide mission. This is great advice for a second playthrough, though. Don't worry about what I posted. When I play ME2, I play the way I know what will get the results I want. Continue doing your playthrough the way you've been playing it. |
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Post by dragontartare on Jan 31, 2017 4:27:31 GMT
Yikes! Well, given all that, I think my best bet for this playthrough is to just keep playing paragon as much as possible, and then use a guide to get through the suicide mission. This is great advice for a second playthrough, though. Don't worry about what I posted. When I play ME2, I play the way I know what will get the results I want. Continue doing your playthrough the way you've been playing it. Yeah, I think that's the best choice at this point, and save the "perfect" playthrough for later when I can get the extra paragon points. While I'm happy to play my Shepard as mostly paragon, she still doesn't have enough points to regain Miranda's loyalty, she failed the sanity check against Morinth, and she failed the morality check for Tali's trial and I don't like feeling like I can't choose the occasional renegade option, like shooting bad guys mid-sentence to shut them up. I will have at most three disloyal squad members (Zaeed, Miranda, and either Tali or Legion), and I will just have to try my best to keep them alive during the suicide mission, with your advice and the guide. I have to recruit Thane and do his loyalty mission, then wrap up any side quests, and I'll be ready to go get the IFF. |
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Post by themikefest on Jan 31, 2017 4:56:57 GMT
and I don't like feeling like I can't choose the occasional renegade option, like shooting bad guys mid-sentence to shut them up. I will have at most three disloyal squad members (Zaeed, Miranda, and either Tali or Legion), and I will just have to try my best to keep them alive during the suicide mission, with your advice and the guide. Have Tali not loyal. Keep Legion loyal I take it you lost Zaeed's loyalty when you chose to save the workers, but didn't have enough paragon to convince him to focus on the mission with the collectors? Anyways. Counting Thane's loyalty, if you get it, you will have nine loyal. More than enough. So don't worry about the 3 who aren't loyal. Be careful doing his loyalty mission. Its possible not to get his loyalty. I have to ask, and I should kick myself for not asking earlier. Have you completed the Arrival dlc? If you haven't, save it for after completing the suicide mission. If already completed, its not a big deal. Just as a reminder if you haven't already. Get the upgrades for the Normandy. |
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Post by dragontartare on Jan 31, 2017 5:04:47 GMT
and I don't like feeling like I can't choose the occasional renegade option, like shooting bad guys mid-sentence to shut them up. I will have at most three disloyal squad members (Zaeed, Miranda, and either Tali or Legion), and I will just have to try my best to keep them alive during the suicide mission, with your advice and the guide. Have Tali not loyal. Keep Legion loyal I take it you lost Zaeed's loyalty when you chose to save the workers, but didn't have enough paragon to convince him to focus on the mission with the collectors? Anyways. Counting Thane's loyalty, if you get it, you will have nine loyal. More than enough. So don't worry about the 3 who aren't loyal. Be careful doing his loyalty mission. Its possible not to get his loyalty. I have to ask, and I should kick myself for not asking earlier. Have you completed the Arrival dlc? If you haven't, save it for after completing the suicide mission. If already completed, its not a big deal. Just as a reminder if you haven't already, get the upgrades for the Normandy. With Tali and Legion, I was planning to side with whichever one I thought would fit Shepard's personality better. Does Tali have a better chance of surviving while disloyal? For Zaeed, yes...I saved the workers and didn't have enough morality to sway him. I have only done the first bit of the Arrival DLC, where you visit the crash site and pick up dog tags. I haven't gone beyond that. I have upgrades for the armor, weapons, shields, fuel, scanner, and skin regenerator in the medical lab. |
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Post by themikefest on Jan 31, 2017 5:35:55 GMT
With Tali and Legion, I was planning to side with whichever one I thought would fit Shepard's personality better. Does Tali have a better chance of surviving while disloyal? I don't want to spoil anything by saying why its better to have Legion loyal and not Tali. She will survive the suicide mission. You said you failed the morality check during Tali's trial? Was Tali exiled? So you haven't done the dlc that involves Dr. Kenson? That's fine. As I say, leave it for after the suicide mission. The other dlc's you can complete before getting the IFF if you wish or wait to complete them after the suicide mission. Its up to you That's fine. I just wanted to double check. |
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Post by dragontartare on Jan 31, 2017 5:44:20 GMT
With Tali and Legion, I was planning to side with whichever one I thought would fit Shepard's personality better. Does Tali have a better chance of surviving while disloyal? I don't want to spoil anything by saying why its better to have Legion loyal and not Tali. She will survive the suicide mission. You said you failed the morality check during Tali's trial? Was Tali exiled? So you haven't done the dlc that involves Dr. Kenson? That's fine. As I say, leave it for after the suicide mission. The other dlc's you can complete before getting the IFF if you wish or wait to complete them after the suicide mission. Its up to you That's fine. I just wanted to double check. Thanks for the spoiler alert Tali is exiled but loyal. I opted to have Shepard lie about the father's involvement since Tali didn't want his reputation tainted. Got a threatening email about the matter, too. |
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Post by themikefest on Jan 31, 2017 5:50:26 GMT
Thanks for the spoiler alert Tali is exiled but loyal. How far back would you have to go to redo her loyalty mission? |
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Post by dragontartare on Jan 31, 2017 6:06:21 GMT
Thanks for the spoiler alert Tali is exiled but loyal. How far back would you have to go to redo her loyalty mission? Just an hour or two. I'd be willing to do it, but the only other choice I had was telling the truth, which she didn't want. Is there a third option hiding there someplace? |
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Post by themikefest on Jan 31, 2017 6:16:26 GMT
Just an hour or two. I'd be willing to do it, but the only other choice I had was telling the truth, which she didn't want. Is there a third option hiding there someplace? Redo her loyalty mission. Turn over the evidence/tell the truth. You will receive a lot of renegade points. She will not be exiled. This is key. You don't want her to be exiled. She will not be loyal. She will survive the suicide mission.
When you do Legions' loyalty mission, MAKE SURE TO DESTROY THE HERETICS when asked. You will receive a lot of renegade points. Legion will be loyal. You will not have the encounter between Legion and Tali on the ship. That's fine. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2017 11:20:05 GMT
Don't worry about what I posted. When I play ME2, I play the way I know what will get the results I want. Continue doing your playthrough the way you've been playing it. Yeah, I think that's the best choice at this point, and save the "perfect" playthrough for later when I can get the extra paragon points. While I'm happy to play my Shepard as mostly paragon, she still doesn't have enough points to regain Miranda's loyalty, she failed the sanity check against Morinth, and she failed the morality check for Tali's trial and I don't like feeling like I can't choose the occasional renegade option, like shooting bad guys mid-sentence to shut them up. I will have at most three disloyal squad members (Zaeed, Miranda, and either Tali or Legion), and I will just have to try my best to keep them alive during the suicide mission, with your advice and the guide. I have to recruit Thane and do his loyalty mission, then wrap up any side quests, and I'll be ready to go get the IFF. Wow, a lot has happened since I feel asleep. You're in the best hands you can be though for getting you through this... I'm just going to sit back that let themikefest do what he does best. |
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Post by dragontartare on Feb 1, 2017 3:20:55 GMT
I did Tali's loyalty mission again as instructed. The first time, I didn't see Veetor standing there on the other side of the courtroom, and... holy crap, Cerberus did torture him!! I was afraid of that when I sent him along to Cerberus, but thought he would have some good information being the only witness. On any future playthrough, I will definitely send him home with Tali instead. I'm also redoing Samara's loyalty mission since I had done it yesterday after Tali's, and I just noticed that Nef's mother cries red tears. Is this a glitch, or is she not actually human? |
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Post by themikefest on Feb 1, 2017 3:36:56 GMT
I did Tali's loyalty mission again as instructed. Tali was upset that you handed over the evidence? That's good. That's what you want. As harsh as that sounds, it needed to be done. Its better than having her exiled. I don't recall seeing the mother with red tears. Its been a long time since I've done that mission |
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Post by melbella on Feb 1, 2017 4:20:33 GMT
I'm also redoing Samara's loyalty mission since I had done it yesterday after Tali's, and I just noticed that Nef's mother cries red tears. Is this a glitch, or is she not actually human? I don't know if it's a glitch or just bad Omega lighting, but they are always red for me too. Makes her sorta creepy.  |
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Is that the iridescent blue armor color I see?
