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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 15, 2017 6:47:59 GMT
Who the hell wants to go through this reaper plot again? I sure as shit don't.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 6:48:18 GMT
This can not go anywhere good. Abandon thread Nothing personal, I have just seen this topic to many times,and it always end in stalemate. Good luck. ... maybe there was less dark matter accumulation in Andromeda ... wait that storyline got scrapped. Anyway:
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 15, 2017 6:51:16 GMT
You don't see it? The freezing? The Headache? How many leviathans are seen? How different are the thralls used in the mission? Can no one see it? Leviathan is nothing more than a rebel Reaper. Of course there are similarities between the enthrallment and indoctrination. We are told that the Reapers perfected that technique. There are differences though, like indoctrination never causes the 'cold and dark' sensations that Leviathan does. We see three Leviathans. Even if Leviathan is a rebel Reaper, why would he lie about their origins? He has no logical reason to, and the Reapers are all about logic.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 15, 2017 6:53:04 GMT
Who the hell wants to go through this reaper plot again? I sure as shit don't. While I don't necessarily want the Reapers back since they were Shepard's foe, I want their legacy to be back. It deals with a lot of issues, and leaves us with one of if not the icons of the franchise: the Mass Relay Array.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jan 15, 2017 6:56:37 GMT
Who the hell wants to go through this reaper plot again? I sure as shit don't. While I don't necessarily want the Reapers back since they were Shepard's foe, I want their legacy to be back. It deals with a lot of issues, and leaves us with one of if not the icons of the franchise: the Mass Relay Array. Thank you. My point has been concluded.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 15, 2017 7:11:04 GMT
The trilogy dealt with these issues already. Having reapers be in Andromeda would clearly overshadow anything else going on there like some dark cloud over the narrative. The sovereign reveal, the collectors and ultimately the reaper war spent whatever worth they had for future stories. I mean, what more could you do with them? BioWare basically laid out everything there was to tell about the reapers and their reason for existence. This would be just as bad as having Cerberus be the main enemy faction, possibly worse, since we can at least shoot Cerberus mooks until there's no more.
I don't get the big deal about the relays. Ultimately, as a gameplay element, there's no real difference between using relays to get from one world or the next across the galaxy and zipping across a cluster using the ship's FTL as far as the story is concerned. This is purely superficial. It's not as if there's any new stories to tell about the relays specifically. The trilogy basically used them up with the whole reveal about their creation, their purpose and even what happens if you destroy one.
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Post by Sifr on Jan 15, 2017 7:19:20 GMT
Can no one see it? Leviathan is nothing more than a rebel Reaper. If your tin-foil theory that the Leviathan was merely a rogue Reaper was true, what would the point be in Leviathan going from the nigh-invulnerable Reaper shell to an organic, squishier form, without access to in-built weapons? That'd be such an massive (and totally idiotic) downgrade, it'd be like if Shepard ripped out all their cybernetic implants and their reinforced skeletal structure, replaced them with Joker's brittle bones, then decided to pick a fight with a Krogan. Otherwise, are we supposed to believe that it actually looks like a Reaper, but created a complicated vision of itself as a squid and a crazy mindscape for Shepard, all for the purposes of telling it a completely fabricated story that would serve no purpose? If you remember, until Shepard convinced them to enter the conflict to get their revenge, the Leviathan were planning to remain hidden as they always had done. They had no reason to manipulate Shepard by giving them a false history of the Reapers's origins, since they were never planning to let Shepard leave their underwater lair in the first place. Since the most simplest explanation is usually the correct one... then the simplest answer is the one given, the Leviathans are the big dumb jellyfish squids who accidentally unleashed the Reapers, after their AI admin went amok because they gave it bad instructions. While I don't necessarily want the Reapers back since they were Shepard's foe, I want their legacy to be back. It deals with a lot of issues, and leaves us with one of if not the icons of the franchise: the Mass Relay Array. The end goal of the Andromeda Initiative is to build more Mass Relays in Andromeda, as well as try to find a way to link back to the Milky Way network (assuming it still exists). So we will eventually be getting Mass Relays, the colonists simply have to build them first.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 15, 2017 7:36:56 GMT
I'm pretty at this point that BioWare is never going to have characters possess hidden agendas without eventually laying it all out on the table. If the Leviathan was a rebel reaper, the story would practically put it up in bright lights just so we're sure. Oh, and it'd probably just use the same exact model as Sovereign or Harbinger.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Jan 15, 2017 8:22:36 GMT
Andromeda is too primitive to be harvested. Andromeda is 3 times the size of the Milky Way and is two times older.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jan 15, 2017 8:26:20 GMT
Can no one see it? Leviathan is nothing more than a rebel Reaper. If your tin-foil theory that the Leviathan was merely a rogue Reaper was true, what would the point be in Leviathan going from the nigh-invulnerable Reaper shell to an organic, squishier form, without access to in-built weapons? That'd be such an massive (and totally idiotic) downgrade, it'd be like if Shepard ripped out all their cybernetic implants and their reinforced skeletal structure, replaced them with Joker's brittle bones, then decided to pick a fight with a Krogan. Otherwise, are we supposed to believe that it actually looks like a Reaper, but created a complicated vision of itself as a squid and a crazy mindscape for Shepard, all for the purposes of telling it a completely fabricated story that would serve no purpose? If you remember, until Shepard convinced them to enter the conflict to get their revenge, the Leviathan were planning to remain hidden as they always had done. They had no reason to manipulate Shepard by giving them a false history of the Reapers's origins, since they were never planning to let Shepard leave their underwater lair in the first place. Since the most simplest explanation is usually the correct one... then the simplest answer is the one given, the Leviathans are the big dumb jellyfish squids who accidentally unleashed the Reapers, after their AI admin went amok because they gave it bad instructions. While I don't necessarily want the Reapers back since they were Shepard's foe, I want their legacy to be back. It deals with a lot of issues, and leaves us with one of if not the icons of the franchise: the Mass Relay Array. The end goal of the Andromeda Initiative is to build more Mass Relays in Andromeda, as well as try to find a way to link back to the Milky Way network (assuming it still exists). So we will eventually be getting Mass Relays, the colonists simply have to build them first. My whole point was a sarcastic. Hanako Ikezawa finished that no need to put further air in an empty bag. Also what is your evidence for this about the relays at this point. I have seen nothing currently released about ME:A that says anything about Relays in Andromeda. They even have stated in the recruitment video it is a one way trip. So again I ask where is the proof about relays for Andromeda that has been said by Bioware?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 15, 2017 8:45:35 GMT
Andromeda is too primitive to be harvested. Andromeda is 3 times the size of the Milky Way and is two times older. No it isn't. The Milky Way is around 13 billion years old and Andromeda is around 9 billion years old.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 15, 2017 9:22:10 GMT
Also what is your evidence for this about the relays at this point. I have seen nothing currently released about ME:A that says anything about Relays in Andromeda. They even have stated in the recruitment video it is a one way trip. So again I ask where is the proof about relays for Andromeda that has been said by Bioware? We'll likely never see relays again, but it would make sense that something like it would be built at least for a smaller scale in Andromeda. Building anything to the extent of the relay network in the Milky Way would take many lifetimes to accomplish, but not so much if it was more of a smaller scale transit system. I feel that in this setting, something like the relays or some sort of hypergate would be inevitable. They save so much on time and resources.
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Post by nem7 on Jan 15, 2017 11:19:38 GMT
The most logical reason is the Reapers were only created for the Milky Way, with the Milky Way in mind, by species in the Milky Way. it is clear they do not engage in any critical thinking skills and are essentially operating to their programming because if they thought about the logic they used, given the evidence presented in the trilogy, they would determine they were...being stupid. That's why I hate ME3. Because reapers in this part are just stupid machines. And their goal is completely dumb. During first two parts of ME reapers were introduced like thinking beings, a mix of synthetic and organic life. Remember conversation with Sovereign? Did he look like stupid machine?
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Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Jan 15, 2017 11:25:11 GMT
But, in the absence of reapers, shouldn't the Andromedan civilisations be extinct or on the verge of it? Because sufficiently evolved organics will always create synthetics that will eventually kill them?
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Post by Reznore on Jan 15, 2017 12:05:31 GMT
But, in the absence of reapers, shouldn't the Andromedan civilisations be extinct or on the verge of it? Because sufficiently evolved organics will always create synthetics that will eventually kill them? Yep. There's no reason to think Andromeda isn't civilised enough or never has been because they also have their mysterious ancient race , I believe.The Not! Prothean ? I haven't followed everything about MEA. Honestly my brain wants to flush everything about the Reapers away, so I don't really want to think about synthetic/organics in Andromeda. But again it's a damn if you do , damn if you don't. Speaking for myself I'd rather the writers/devs just ignore the issue altogether "Oh no something awful happened and we're forever cut off from the Milky Ways...!!!!". There's also the question that even if Andromeda for unknown reason doesn't have powerful AI/VI yet , well we're bringing some and we're bringing the knowledge over.It's the equivalent of bringing the apocalypse if you believe the Reapers. So it might be better if this is ignored , and there's no reasons for the npcs in MEA to be aware of that anyway , since they are living before things went really south and the catalyst speech.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 15, 2017 14:05:54 GMT
Andromeda is 3 times the size of the Milky Way and is two times older. That would mean what to the reapers?
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Post by traks on Jan 15, 2017 14:22:42 GMT
Why would any sane Andromedian create anything like the Reapers?
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Post by danielhungary on Jan 15, 2017 16:46:39 GMT
If organics in the milky way can create unstoppable synthetics which can wipe out all life, what would stop organics in the Andromeda galaxy to do the same? Those synthetics shouldn't have any problem traveling to our galaxy and would make the reaper „solution“ completely redundant. Kett race is fully indocrinated and they are Reaper slaves just like the Collector's and the Catalyst effect was only affected the Milky Way ? No. The Reapers where never present in the Andromeda Galaxy that means there are NO Mass Relays in Andromeda Galaxy, there is no evidence of any Mass Effect Relay ever existed in the Andromeda Galaxy. Remnants however are 100% synthetics or so it seems.
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Post by Iakus on Jan 15, 2017 17:35:53 GMT
We actually don't know how advanced the races in Andromeda are and why the Kett aren't dominating the galaxy with an iron fist like the Protheans did in the MW. I would hold on the statement that the Andromeda technology is relatively primitive. Andromeda hasn't had a billion years of cycles of destruction/. Forget the protheans, there should be something like the Leviathans at the height of their power!
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Jan 15, 2017 17:42:49 GMT
Becuase there's no way synthetics would always destroy all organics in Andromeda.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 15, 2017 18:38:39 GMT
You don't see it? The freezing? The Headache? How many leviathans are seen? How different are the thralls used in the mission? Can no one see it? Leviathan is nothing more than a rebel Reaper. Of course there are similarities between the enthrallment and indoctrination. We are told that the Reapers perfected that technique. There are differences though, like indoctrination never causes the 'cold and dark' sensations that Leviathan does. We see three Leviathans. Even if Leviathan is a rebel Reaper, why would he lie about their origins? He has no logical reason to, and the Reapers are all about logic. Indoctrination appears to be a permanent state. Enthrallment can be permanent but can also go away with no aftereffects. Both can be a slow process. However, the mere presence of a Reaper or Reaper tech causes indoctrination whereas simply being around a Leviathan or its tech may doesn't cause enthrallment (thought does appear to make a person more susceptible to it if the Leviathan chooses). Re: Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger: No, I can't see the Leviathan as a rebel Reaper. It's an entirely organic entity versus organic goop loaded into a machine. Reapers are, for lack of a better description, synthetic versions of Leviathans. The first Reaper was Harbinger who was from the first harvested race - the Leviathans. It was created by the Intelligence/Catalyst in the image of its own creators, the Leviathans. The Leviathan Shepard meets even acknowledges that they couldn't imagine that an AI could pose a threat them, even though they believed AI were a threat to all of the "lesser" races.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 15, 2017 18:41:21 GMT
Becuase there's no way synthetics would always destroy all organics in Andromeda. Not personally convinced that synthetics would always destroy all organics in the Milky Way. We know peace with the geth is possible. EDI, as well, who if she lives would most likely eventually not be the only one of her kind. The geth and EDI are pretty strong evidence that the Reapers are wrong and simply don't let us have the opportunity to allow things to play out. They harvest all organics before we can find out.
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Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 15, 2017 18:59:04 GMT
We actually don't know how advanced the races in Andromeda are and why the Kett aren't dominating the galaxy with an iron fist like the Protheans did in the MW. I would hold on the statement that the Andromeda technology is relatively primitive. Andromeda hasn't had a billion years of cycles of destruction/. Forget the protheans, there should be something like the Leviathans at the height of their power! Maybe, but we haven't seen anything like them in real life. Why assume it has to be the case? A species could die or stagnant for any number of reasons that would prevent us from seeing an all-powerful race that controls the entire galaxy. Practically speaking, had the Leviathan not created the Intelligence, perhaps they would have died off. Alternately, they might have expanded into other galaxies (though given that we have about 100 billion stars in the MW, and we've seen nothing to suggest that the Council races are connected to all of them, it seems unlikely).
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Post by Iakus on Jan 15, 2017 19:38:05 GMT
Andromeda hasn't had a billion years of cycles of destruction/. Forget the protheans, there should be something like the Leviathans at the height of their power! Maybe, but we haven't seen anything like them in real life. Why assume it has to be the case? A species could die or stagnant for any number of reasons that would prevent us from seeing an all-powerful race that controls the entire galaxy. Practically speaking, had the Leviathan not created the Intelligence, perhaps they would have died off. Alternately, they might have expanded into other galaxies (though given that we have about 100 billion stars in the MW, and we've seen nothing to suggest that the Council races are connected to all of them, it seems unlikely). AH, but you see the Catalyst explained (and we are supposed to believe it is true) that "inevitably" organic races will advance to the point of creating synthetics that wipe them out. Therefore, one of three things must be true: 1) Andromeda has Reapers or something that functions in a similar manner as the Reapers (periodically wiping out advanced organic life 2) There are no "Reapers" and synthetics have wiped out organic life in Andromeda 3) The Catalyst was wrong, and organic life has had a billion years+ to continue advancing, potentially surpassing even the Leviathans.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Jan 15, 2017 19:49:52 GMT
Becuase there's no way synthetics would always destroy all organics in Andromeda. Not personally convinced that synthetics would always destroy all organics in the Milky Way. We know peace with the geth is possible. EDI, as well, who if she lives would most likely eventually not be the only one of her kind. The geth and EDI are pretty strong evidence that the Reapers are wrong and simply don't let us have the opportunity to allow things to play out. They harvest all organics before we can find out. For once I'm not actually arguing whether it's a fact or not. I was just being ironic.
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