Yermogi
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Post by Yermogi on Apr 10, 2018 23:47:45 GMT
Frankly I hope that freeing the slaves, and banning bloodmagic and all of that goodie goodie nonsense isn't even an option in Tevinter. Maybe you can help some senators who would like to push in that direction. Maybe you can aid a few rebellions. But I really dont want one person to be able to completely change several thousand years of what was seen as acceptable in a weekend. That's just silly. That's what I mean. Total example, not expecting this to be the main options of DA4 Say there are three things: End the Mageocracy and start a Democrtic Republic End Slavery Resolve Solas exactly the way you want I want you to only be able to do 2/3 of those things, but not be able to do 3/3 good things. There needs to be a trade of values to achieve what is most important to your character. If you sink all your resources and time into perfecting Tevinter, then Solas has to die. No chance to redeem. But if you allow the mageocracy to continue, you can end slavery and watch your Quiz make out with Solas in their happy ending.* *Not a Solasmancer. I would 100% support the above proposition. Seriously, even accomplishing ONE of those things is fantastic. I would totally consider stopping a crazed elf and ending slavery to be better than stopping the Mageocracy. Mages are not all evil, and eventually there will be a cultural backlash and a big government shakedown (as is common in all governments). Plus, I always play as a mage, because Magic is fun, and also in real life I have all the physical prowess and agility of an arthritic flamingo so magic is where it's at for me- I think if you play as a mage, you know very well what could happen to you if Tevinter becomes more like the South, where mages are basically prisoners, and so you'd be more willing to work on the government a little less than the other two things. I'm not saying that's GOOD or moral, but it would make more sense. My Tevinter mage Juno is basically going to be the female version of Dorian; she's there for the entertainment, food, and hot guys.* *I'll make her grow up eventually, it'll be a work in progress.
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Heimdall
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∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
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Post by Heimdall on Apr 14, 2018 23:00:06 GMT
I think ending the Mageocracy and ending slavery should be off the table. Those are huge and drastic changes to Tevinter that would be next to impossible for the society to absorb while at war with the Qunari.
I also don’t really want another kingmaker plot, that might just be me.
We can support movement in the right direction though, like helping Dorian’s faction gain more influence and pushing for more power for the Soporati (I vaguely remember there being an elected Soporati house in the Tevinter government, though it’s basically powerless)
Anyway, my planned Tevinter character is a qunari mage who views his youthful abduction by Tevinter slavers as the best thing that ever happened to him given what his life would have been like as a Saarebas. I think it’s going to be fun playing as a Tevinter nationalist character.
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Nyralim
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Post by Nyralim on Apr 15, 2018 16:54:43 GMT
Just putting some thoughts out on the 'entire Tevinter has to end slaverly and etc.' That is no easy feat to accomplish to a culture that is 100% reliant on this system for decades. Its entire society would collapse on itself without some means of a good (meaning a working) replacement. And that is just from an economic perspective, the concept of slavery they employ is used throughout their entire society. That is going to take some mighty persuasion.
Also talking about changing the entire empire. I can't really think of something what Tevinter should turn into without it being 'Generic empire #526. Take away the stuff that is bad, slavery, mages in power and old empire (the information we have as an outsider no less), would Tevinter still be Tevinter in the end? What should it be and does this coincide with what we want? Should it even be the same?
If they in the end are going to pick the 'change route', then it has to something decent while still being a doable transition and without losing its identity on what or who Tevinter really is.
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Post by Ieldra on Apr 25, 2018 18:14:06 GMT
If they in the end are going to pick the 'change route', then it has to something decent while still being a doable transition and without losing its identity on what or who Tevinter really is. So, let's talk about what's part of Tevinter's identity. I have a few suggestions: (1) I think the magocracy is crucial. I can see a Tevinter where individual mages are a little more serious about serving their country rather than themselves only, but not a Tevinter that isn't ruled by the mageborn. Also, a magocracy isn't any worse than any other system of governance on Thedas, assuming that the tacit acceptance of human sacrifice is a thing of the past. (2) I also think that Tevinter is a land of mad ambition. Its social climate will always be somewhat harsh, with or without slavery. Tevinter will push the envelope in any endeavor. There will be no half measures, even at risk of disaster. Voices urging restraint will have a hard time. Dorian said he sees his countrymen and -women as passionate, whatever they choose to do. I can see that. The mageborn must be more restrained by necessity, but that only means a slower and more controlled burn. This is what made the Seven, but also what made Tevinter the most advanced nation on Thedas, the only one with even a remote hope of standing against the qunari. Tevinter - it's a land of audacious plans, disastrous failures and miraculous successes, and the people responsible are admired, not feared or despised, even in failure. The magisters have not hesitated to kill their slaves for their ambitions, but I can see another generation being equally ready to entertain mad risks for themselves. Of course, like anywhere else, the majority will want to just live their lives and be left in peace, but that's not what captures the public imagination. No story ends with the hero retreating into their much-earned peaceful life. It's either immortality or doom, or whatever other existential duality is the fashion of the year. (3) There will always be an appreciation of its own long history. Where Fereldans take pride in their relative freedom, Orlesians in their style, the people of Tevinter will take pride in its long and successful history. Disowning their history? Not for them. There is probably more, but I'll have to think about it more. What does everyone think of this so far?
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Post by Sifr on Apr 27, 2018 8:24:06 GMT
There is probably more, but I'll have to think about it more. What does everyone think of this so far? 4) Even if the push for an abolitionist movement were successful in Tevinter, thus granting freedom to anyone born into slavery or abducted from foreign lands, it's quite easily to imagine that their role in society would instead be taken by the Servus Publicus (state-owned slaves). In that case, many former slaves might also opt to sell themselves into indentured servitude, in order to make ends meet and support their families. Some might not see this as any different than how things were before, but unlike slavery, people are given a choice to enter indentured servitude, can determine how long their contracts are for, are legally defined as employees and not property, while also being guaranteed legal protection by the state. This is not a perfect solution however. Despite the newfound freedoms granted to them, most ex-slaves will continue to inhabit the lowest level of Tevinter society and continue to work the same miserable jobs that they did before. Some might also feel that simply replacing "slave" with "servant" means that the institution of slavery hasn't truly been abolished, so much as given a fresh coat of paint and rebranded under a new name. Sadly, it seems far to realistic for the Magisterium to do this under the guise of championing progressive reforms, while in reality, doing everything possible to maintain as much of the status quo as they can. Even if slaves gained their freedom, I doubt the Imperium would ever let them gain any real power.5) Regardless of how successful (or not) reformists are, I suspect the class system will likely endure, given how deeply ingrained it seems to be within the Tevinter society. As Ieldra noted, Tevinters are extremely ambitious people who constantly are trying to one-up each other, so it's fitting that they have a class system that reflects this. Many Soporati spend generations hoping to produce magical child that could ascend their family into the Laetan class, which earns them higher social standing. The Altus similarly spend generations attempting to produce the perfect mage who might someday become Archon, while competing with each other to earn the Archon's favour, so he might bestow them with the rank of Magister. That's why I don't think that even with societal changes, their class system would disappear overnight (not unless something drastic happens). Perhaps some ranks are added, removed or the lines between them become blurred, but I don't imagine Tevinters will ever stop competing to socially outdo each other.
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Post by Ieldra on Apr 30, 2018 17:34:11 GMT
There is probably more, but I'll have to think about it more. What does everyone think of this so far? 4) Even if the push for an abolitionist movement were successful in Tevinter, thus granting freedom to anyone born into slavery or abducted from foreign lands, it's quite easily to imagine that their role in society would instead be taken by the Servus Publicus (state-owned slaves). In that case, many former slaves might also opt to sell themselves into indentured servitude, in order to make ends meet and support their families. Some might not see this as any different than how things were before, but unlike slavery, people are given a choice to enter indentured servitude, can determine how long their contracts are for, are legally defined as employees and not property, while also being guaranteed legal protection by the state. This is not a perfect solution however. Despite the newfound freedoms granted to them, most ex-slaves will continue to inhabit the lowest level of Tevinter society and continue to work the same miserable jobs that they did before. Some might also feel that simply replacing "slave" with "servant" means that the institution of slavery hasn't truly been abolished, so much as given a fresh coat of paint and rebranded under a new name. Sadly, it seems far to realistic for the Magisterium to do this under the guise of championing progressive reforms, while in reality, doing everything possible to maintain as much of the status quo as they can. Even if slaves gained their freedom, I doubt the Imperium would ever let them gain any real power.
Of course not. It's a magocracy, and that's unlikely to change - but there's a difference between oppression and reserving all big political decisions, even if it's only because too much internal strife weakens you to external threats. Given reasonable opportunity, free people contribute more to prosperity and collective achievement. IIRC Calpernia said that in DAO. So maybe the war is a chance. Tevinter needs everything it has in this war. As for the magisterium, I think a significant part of it must be replaced for *any* reform to take place. The class system is not linked to people being ambitious. A class system is defined by a lack of social mobility, and while a class system is the inevitable endpoint for any society not specifically designed to avoid it, in Tevinter the main factor which limits mobility is magic, not ambition. That is likely to remain, and consequently, so will the attempts by the soporati to breed a mageborn child. However, apart from the socially relevant distinction between the mageborn and those without magic, I don't think Tevinter's social stratification is part of its identity. Tevinter can be Tevinter without slavery.
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theascendent
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by theascendent on May 2, 2018 11:38:25 GMT
I am curious about the politics of Tevinter, we know about Dorian and Mae's faction the Lucerini, but I wonder what are the rest of Tevinter politics like.
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Post by vertigomez on May 5, 2018 1:00:50 GMT
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Post by Nightscrawl on May 5, 2018 1:42:47 GMT
That series with Mae is amazing, and I really like the older Dorian.
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Post by Fredward on May 5, 2018 6:47:51 GMT
Ooh damn Merrill is working that aesthetic, didn't realize I wanted to see more menacing/regal looking elves until now.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 7, 2018 21:44:15 GMT
Older Dorian is awesome. It really makes me miss his character. I really hope we get to see him in the next game, but more so with the Inquisitor around than anything.
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Post by vertigomez on May 9, 2018 20:30:25 GMT
That series with Mae is amazing, and I really like the older Dorian. Mae's story breaks my heart, because she's so strong as an individual but she keeps losing the ones whose support means the most. Ooh damn Merrill is working that aesthetic, didn't realize I wanted to see more menacing/regal looking elves until now. Well, with the way Solas was dressed at the end of Trespasser, you might get your wish! Seriously though, I'd love an Arlathan flashback with haughty elven nobles wearing fancy sparkly magical clothes. Older Dorian is awesome. It really makes me miss his character. I really hope we get to see him in the next game, but more so with the Inquisitor around than anything. I'm sure we'll see him! I just hope nothing happens to him. My heart can't take that kinna stress.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 12, 2018 20:23:40 GMT
Well, with the way Solas was dressed at the end of Trespasser, you might get your wish! Seriously though, I'd love an Arlathan flashback with haughty elven nobles wearing fancy sparkly magical clothes. I was rather hoping we would get that in Tevinter with the Magisters. Then was disappointed to discover that the typical colour of high ranking people in Tevinter society is black. I assume that is why Dorian wore white, to show he doesn't conform. Still it is all rather clichéd. I really thought that with the hotter climate we could expect some exotic colours to go with the passionate zest for life of the Tevinter psyche (according to Dorian). Still the designers for Alexius and Felix clearly hadn't heard about Tevinter favouring dark colours, so I live in hope.
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Post by vertigomez on May 12, 2018 21:00:02 GMT
Well, with the way Solas was dressed at the end of Trespasser, you might get your wish! Seriously though, I'd love an Arlathan flashback with haughty elven nobles wearing fancy sparkly magical clothes. I was rather hoping we would get that in Tevinter with the Magisters. Then was disappointed to discover that the typical colour of high ranking people in Tevinter society is black. I assume that is why Dorian wore white, to show he doesn't conform. Still it is all rather clichéd. I really thought that with the hotter climate we could expect some exotic colours to go with the passionate zest for life of the Tevinter psyche (according to Dorian). Still the designers for Alexius and Felix clearly hadn't heard about Tevinter favouring dark colours, so I live in hope. It's a bit cliched, but I'm in love with that somber gothic Tevinter aesthetic so I'm cool with it. I imagine there'll be rich fabrics to make up for the lack of color. Velvet. Lots of embellishments, since part of Tevinter is inspired by India, etc. I think Par Vollen has a handle on the bright colors; turquoise and red especially. What I meant by Arlathan was that I'd like to see elves in finery, though I suppose we could run into an aspiring magister who's an elf...
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Yermogi
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Post by Yermogi on May 15, 2018 3:09:06 GMT
Pic spam. {snip} Tevinter-esque Merrill I CLAIM THIS OUTFIT IN THE NAME OF MY MAGE JUNO. Seriously- GORGEOUS. I LOVE that outfit. PLEASE can we have gorgeous clothes like this for our characters, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.
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Post by vertigomez on May 15, 2018 18:21:29 GMT
Pic spam. {snip} Tevinter-esque Merrill I CLAIM THIS OUTFIT IN THE NAME OF MY MAGE JUNO. Seriously- GORGEOUS. I LOVE that outfit. PLEASE can we have gorgeous clothes like this for our characters, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE. Most of my characters happily dress like hobos but I appreciate this post all the same. 🤣
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Post by vertigomez on May 17, 2018 0:28:03 GMT
More art. The artist's OC- Calpernia-
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midnight tea
Twitter Guru
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Post by midnight tea on May 17, 2018 14:03:51 GMT
Well, with the way Solas was dressed at the end of Trespasser, you might get your wish! Seriously though, I'd love an Arlathan flashback with haughty elven nobles wearing fancy sparkly magical clothes. Coming back to that a bit - in the Evanuris pamphlet about Solas we hear him described as one coming in "humble guises". And he's the guy wearing this on his murals, nevermind the golden leggings from Trespasser: I am at this point convinced that most fancy elves of yore were wearing impossible anime/Final Fantasy-ish gear. Which, btw, Dorian's outfit - especially the Trespasser one - reminded me tiny a bit too.
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Post by vertigomez on May 17, 2018 14:51:02 GMT
Well, with the way Solas was dressed at the end of Trespasser, you might get your wish! Seriously though, I'd love an Arlathan flashback with haughty elven nobles wearing fancy sparkly magical clothes. Coming back to that a bit - in the Evanuris pamphlet about Solas we hear him described as one coming in "humble guises". And he's the guy wearing this on his murals, nevermind the golden leggings from Trespasser: I am at this point convinced that most fancy elves of yore were wearing impossible anime/Final Fantasy-ish gear. Which, btw, Dorian's outfit - especially the Trespasser one - reminded me tiny a bit too. Oh, I wouldn't be surprised at all. Just look at Archon Radonis! Given how many influences Tevinter pulled from the ancient elves, and that both are magic-based societies, I'd expect elaborate enchanted clothing with an emphasis on rank and class, that sort of thing. The upper echelons of society in Arlathan probably had, like..... Fade-spun wonder-cloth that they just magicked into existence. Meanwhile among the dwarves the focus is on metalworks and precious jewels and the qunari have all their elaborate knotwork and religious imagery. Someone talk to me about Thedosian fashion, I'm desperate. Oh! And here's Garrett Hawke, rocking looks from all over Thedas... including Tevinter. 😍
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sumerian Physics on May 17, 2018 20:35:34 GMT
Hey guys.
It's a video game. It's a role playing video game.
If I want to RP as a goody two shoes Divinity Sent Great Emancipator - I should have that option.
If I want to single-handedly change the consciousness of a Nation, in my fantasy role playing video game, I should have that option.
What I love most about the Dragon Age is how BIG everything is. The scope and scale of the events are monumental, mythical. Beyond legendary. Divine.
In Inquisition, the player character brazenly toys with the idea of achieving Godhood.
Yet some of you think changing one country is a step too far? BAH. I ain't hearing none of that. I am going to CLEANSE Tevinter
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Post by vertigomez on May 17, 2018 21:08:04 GMT
Hey guys. It's a video game. It's a role playing video game. If I want to RP as a goody two shoes Divinity Sent Great Emancipator - I should have that option. If I want to single-handedly change the consciousness of a Nation, in my fantasy role playing video game, I should have that option. What I love most about the Dragon Age is how BIG everything is. The scope and scale of the events are monumental, mythical. Beyond legendary. Divine. In Inquisition, the player character brazenly toys with the idea of achieving Godhood. Yet some of you think changing one country is a step too far? BAH. I ain't hearing none of that. I am going to CLEANSE Tevinter I think we've been playing different games. Most of our "big, world-changing" decisions are swept under the rug for the sake of telling a somewhat linear story, and also because DA isn't a series where the good guys always win. Which, I mean.... have goals bro but I don't think they're going to amount to much.
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Post by Sumerian Physics on May 17, 2018 21:14:10 GMT
Hey guys. It's a video game. It's a role playing video game. If I want to RP as a goody two shoes Divinity Sent Great Emancipator - I should have that option. If I want to single-handedly change the consciousness of a Nation, in my fantasy role playing video game, I should have that option. What I love most about the Dragon Age is how BIG everything is. The scope and scale of the events are monumental, mythical. Beyond legendary. Divine. In Inquisition, the player character brazenly toys with the idea of achieving Godhood. Yet some of you think changing one country is a step too far? BAH. I ain't hearing none of that. I am going to CLEANSE Tevinter I think we've been playing different games. Most of our "big, world-changing" decisions are swept under the rug for the sake of telling a somewhat linear story, and also because DA isn't a series where the good guys always win. Which, I mean.... have goals bro but I don't think they're going to amount to much. I didn't say anything about "decisions" I specifically used the word "events". Regardless of whether or not you feel your specific decisions amount to a whole lot in the games, Dragon Age is the last series I'd expect to downplay an angle like emancipation of an entire country. Like I mentioned, the Inquisitor's story is damn near about becoming a peer of Gods. But Khaleesi level antics is a bridge too far? Uh, sure thing
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Post by vertigomez on May 17, 2018 21:20:33 GMT
I think we've been playing different games. Most of our "big, world-changing" decisions are swept under the rug for the sake of telling a somewhat linear story, and also because DA isn't a series where the good guys always win. Which, I mean.... have goals bro but I don't think they're going to amount to much. I didn't say anything about "decisions" I specifically used the word "events". Regardless of whether or not you feel your specific decisions amount to a whole lot in the games, Dragon Age is the last series I'd expect to downplay an angle like emancipation of an entire country. Like I mentioned, the Inquisitor's story is damn near about becoming a peer of Gods. But Khaleesi level antics is a bridge too far? Uh, sure thing I personally don't see the Inquisitor as being anything like a peer of the gods (maybe a dwarven Warden in DAO, considering they become a Paragon...), but to each their own. We'll see what happens in the game.
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Post by Sumerian Physics on May 17, 2018 21:32:17 GMT
I didn't say anything about "decisions" I specifically used the word "events". Regardless of whether or not you feel your specific decisions amount to a whole lot in the games, Dragon Age is the last series I'd expect to downplay an angle like emancipation of an entire country. Like I mentioned, the Inquisitor's story is damn near about becoming a peer of Gods. But Khaleesi level antics is a bridge too far? Uh, sure thing I personally don't see the Inquisitor as being anything like a peer of the gods (maybe a dwarven Warden in DAO, considering they become a Paragon...), but to each their own. We'll see what happens in the game. Considering Fen'Harel is your frenemy I would say that makes the Inquisitor literally a peer of the Gods. But we'll see what happens
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Twitter Guru
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Post by midnight tea on May 17, 2018 21:36:26 GMT
I didn't say anything about "decisions" I specifically used the word "events". Regardless of whether or not you feel your specific decisions amount to a whole lot in the games, Dragon Age is the last series I'd expect to downplay an angle like emancipation of an entire country. Like I mentioned, the Inquisitor's story is damn near about becoming a peer of Gods. But Khaleesi level antics is a bridge too far? Uh, sure thing I personally don't see the Inquisitor as being anything like a peer of the gods (maybe a dwarven Warden in DAO, considering they become a Paragon...), but to each their own. We'll see what happens in the game. Not like people always have a choice. Most of Inquisition was about Inky dealing with their accidental demigodhood and responsibilities thrown at their back with it, even if they protested loudly that they're not holy, magical or even particularly lucky. Solas himself seems to have had something of a similar problem, despite coming from the world where there were a lot of overpowered people. I think the idea is (and I wouldn't be surprised that it'd be extended to DA4, given implications of straightforward continuation of the storyline) that we are supposed to ponder the concept of divinity and what it means/could mean, even if people making the biggest, most consequential decisions aren't gods per se.
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