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Post by stealthfox94 on Feb 9, 2017 16:25:44 GMT
I never particularly cared for the Paragon/Renegade system. It was way to rigid and didn't allow me to play my character the way I wanted. I'm happy to see it replaced but good lord how can people complain about this???? On the Gamespot article I looked at people where talking about how it was lazy, how it would just be a worse version of Fallout 4, and how the choices would be boring.... Man some people really want this game to fail. At this point I think people who have nothing but negative things to say about this game and don't offer constructive criticism should just stay away from anything related to this game. The only constructive criticism I saw that I agree with was someone saying they hope their decisions actually have an impact to the story. I would like to see choices that actually alter the ending to the game rather than just effect what you say, ME2 did a decent job with this.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2017 16:29:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2017 16:29:36 GMT
Gamespot, Ign, and Youtube are not sites for those wanting to be constuctive go to comment.
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Post by SofaJockey on Feb 9, 2017 16:30:02 GMT
...Man some people really want this game to fail. ... It's the internet. On topic, any increase in complexity appears to be a good thing, but I'd like to see how it works out in practice.
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Post by revanshep78 on Feb 9, 2017 16:30:13 GMT
I personally am looking forward to this new dialog system. It seems to streamline what you actually MEAN to say rather than just a general idea of saying something naughty or nice. Also, I'm hoping it will be able to add more character role playing. After all this is still somewhat an RPG, right?
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Post by Sartoz on Feb 9, 2017 16:34:07 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
On paper, I prefer the new system.
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Post by stealthfox94 on Feb 9, 2017 16:37:47 GMT
I personally am looking forward to this new dialog system. It seems to streamline what you actually MEAN to say rather than just a general idea of saying something naughty or nice. Also, I'm hoping it will be able to add more character role playing. After all this is still somewhat an RPG, right? Honestly I thought Bioware actually did a better job with this for every new ME game. ME1 sometimes had this problem, when I played as femshep I "accidentally" romanced Kaiden. But in ME3 it was much more clear. I think taking a wait and see approach is the best course of action. But apparently most people don't agree with me.....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2017 16:37:50 GMT
I am not complaining, and I have liked Paragon/Renegade a fair bit.
Paragon and Renegade felt very Shepard to me, as you could see a distinctive personality emerge, with Renegade being the best take on an "evil" main character than I have previously seen.
In terms of "2 to 4" different "character voice" answers that was brought up in the article, well....
In Dragon Age 2, while it is supposed to be personality-based, I did not feel the same nuanced personality as I saw in MET's performances. My "funny/sarcastic" responses are not particularly smart alec, my goodie-goodie two shoes does not sound noble and uplifting, and my forecefull guy does not sound threatening or brooding. I hope Andromeda does a better job at both writing the texts and the VAs giving more distinctive performances than in DA2.
In a way, though, I'd have preferred the Good and Evil for player convenience, even if they have run out of creative ways to say it.... LS/DS, open palm/closed fist, Paragon and Renegade....
All things considered, I've liked SWTOR system the most, where each class had a distinctive performance and some landed itself to brutal, playful, etc dialogues better than others.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2017 16:40:01 GMT
It was only a slight variation on KoTOR's LS/DS points anyway, which is something that makes sense only against the background of Lucas's manichean universe.
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Post by urkibalurki on Feb 9, 2017 16:58:48 GMT
I never liked very much this paragon/renegade system. Why had Shepard to be either a saint or a jerk? I'm glad that the Ryder twins are more human.
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Post by deebo305 on Feb 9, 2017 17:14:54 GMT
I never particularly cared for the Paragon/Renegade system. It was way to rigid and didn't allow me to play my character the way I wanted. I'm happy to see it replaced but good lord how can people complain about this???? On the Gamespot article I looked at people where talking about how it was lazy, how it would just be a worse version of Fallout 4, and how the choices would be boring.... Man some people really want this game to fail. Just gonna chew through the fat here... The Paragon/Renegade system was by no means perfect there were plenty of times when I myself felt it constraints when I chose to not fully commit to one way or the other but as Inquisition or Fallout 4 has shown pure neutrality is by no means better. Your essentially left with a main character who sounds monotone a majority of the time and ham fisted whenever you decide to pick the option with the angry face icon. I'm not entirely sold on the all this talk from the devs about there being more "gray" options but if Ryder is just another Inquisitor then I'll be thoroughly disappointed
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Post by kumazan on Feb 9, 2017 17:25:48 GMT
People complain on the internet, that's what they do. But I like that they took paragon/renegade out. It was too rigid, and while I was OK with it being an iconic feature of the ME Trilogy, with a new start it was one of the things I expected (and wanted) them to leave behind.
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Post by derrame on Feb 9, 2017 17:31:45 GMT
Mass Effect has nothing to learn from Dragon Age i liked the apragon renegade system in the trilogy, but i'm fine if it's gone, i accept the decision of the devs in Andromeda maybe we like it more without that system it can be good too
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Post by mango1smoothie on Feb 9, 2017 17:32:30 GMT
I didn't care much for the paragon renegade system. It was fun for the trilogy, but I'm looking forward to being able to roleplay my characters to be a bit more complicated than I could with Shepard.
My canon playthrough I did go 100% paragon and 85% renegade in 1 and 2. With 60% renegade and 40% paragon in 3. In an attempt to make a more interesting character, but it was hard with the paragon renegade system. So I'm looking forward to not being restricted to a morality bar.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 9, 2017 17:33:43 GMT
So you make a thread to complain about people complaining?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2017 17:41:15 GMT
Mass Effect has nothing to learn from Dragon Age i liked the apragon renegade system in the trilogy, but i'm fine if it's gone, i accept the decision of the devs in Andromeda maybe we like it more without that system it can be good too No? From where do you think the dialogue system in Andromeda is based on? Or the feedback from Inquisition, relating to the fetch quests and open world environments?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2017 17:48:11 GMT
I am not complaining, and I have liked Paragon/Renegade a fair bit. Paragon and Renegade felt very Shepard to me, as you could see a distinctive personality emerge, with Renegade being the best take on an "evil" main character than I have previously seen. In terms of "2 to 4" different "character voice" answers that was brought up in the article, well.... In Dragon Age 2, while it is supposed to be personality-based, I did not feel the same nuanced personality as I saw in MET's performances. My "funny/sarcastic" responses are not particularly smart alec, my goodie-goodie two shoes does not sound noble and uplifting, and my forecefull guy does not sound threatening or brooding. I hope Andromeda does a better job at both writing the texts and the VAs giving more distinctive performances than in DA2. In a way, though, I'd have preferred the Good and Evil for player convenience, even if they have run out of creative ways to say it.... LS/DS, open palm/closed fist, Paragon and Renegade.... All things considered, I've liked SWTOR system the most, where each class had a distinctive performance and some landed itself to brutal, playful, etc dialogues better than others. Paragon and Renegade were never supposed to be Good and Evil. It just turned out that way because the devs decided to treat the consequences of our decisions as good and evil. One was supposed to be more compassionate, the follow the rules and big heart type, while the other was the victory at all costs type and rational approach (most of the time, mind you). They made it be pretty much black and white, and paragon got the best case scenarios, while the renegade got the worst (Not always, of course), even when the renegade was pretty much the most reasonable way to deal with a situation. You might have heard it yourself, the devs said that one reason they changed it was because people were just playing it without considering which option to pick: I'm gonna be a paragon! (Choose all the upper right options). I'm gonna be a renegade (Choose all the bottom right options). You can see this is true in a lot of youtube videos. You almost never see a player choose a different dialogue option in their playthroughs. Those of us that went the renegade approach more often than not, felt railroaded and screwed more times than it should've been. Example: the Collector Base - Giving Legion to Cerberus - Morinth - Sabotaging the Genophage - Letting the Council die in ME1
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Feb 9, 2017 17:49:39 GMT
I liked the system in ME3, where you weren't 'punished' by being locked out of persuades if you hadn't saved enough space orphanages or kicked enough space puppies.
That being said, if it's Inquisitiony, that'll be fine by me.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2017 17:51:47 GMT
I am not complaining, and I have liked Paragon/Renegade a fair bit. Paragon and Renegade felt very Shepard to me, as you could see a distinctive personality emerge, with Renegade being the best take on an "evil" main character than I have previously seen. In terms of "2 to 4" different "character voice" answers that was brought up in the article, well.... In Dragon Age 2, while it is supposed to be personality-based, I did not feel the same nuanced personality as I saw in MET's performances. My "funny/sarcastic" responses are not particularly smart alec, my goodie-goodie two shoes does not sound noble and uplifting, and my forecefull guy does not sound threatening or brooding. I hope Andromeda does a better job at both writing the texts and the VAs giving more distinctive performances than in DA2. In a way, though, I'd have preferred the Good and Evil for player convenience, even if they have run out of creative ways to say it.... LS/DS, open palm/closed fist, Paragon and Renegade.... All things considered, I've liked SWTOR system the most, where each class had a distinctive performance and some landed itself to brutal, playful, etc dialogues better than others. Paragon and Renegade were never supposed to be Good and Evil. One was supposed to be more compassionate, following the rules and big heart type, while the other was the victory at all costs type and rational approach (most of the time, mind you). And us that got the renegade approach more often than not, felt railroaded and screwed more times than it should've been. Yes, that is why I have liked the Paragon and Renegade, it was quite organic, real sort of thing. I am not sure what you mean in terms of getting screwed. I felt that Renegade Shepard actually was much more realistic, with a really good dialogue and voice-over. But, well, I dunno, I just love the Trilogy. I also never felt it was out of character to pick any option on the wheel, even if I was overall leaning to Renegade or Paragon.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Feb 9, 2017 17:56:42 GMT
theychangeditsoitsucks.jpg
But yeah, I didn't give a damn what color the options were before, I picked what I thought was best.
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Post by jastall on Feb 9, 2017 18:08:32 GMT
I'm happy Paragon and Renegade are gone. They impeded roleplaying more than anything else. Agree/disagree can bring so much more nuance to a conversation than boy scout/edgelord.
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Post by GannayevOfDreams on Feb 9, 2017 18:12:40 GMT
Those of us that went the renegade approach more often than not, felt railroaded and screwed more times than it should've been. Example: the Collector Base - Giving Legion to Cerberus - Morinth - Sabotaging the Genophage - Letting the Council die in ME1 Hmm... it's tricky stuff, lot of philosophical implications. How many acts of evil (and make no mistake, a lot of people would consider some of those actions genuinely evil) are permissible if it's in service of the "greater good"? Is there a quantifiable line? At what point do all the bad things you do invalidate the ego's belief that you're a good person? It's true that the whole Paragon/Renegade system simplifies it to an unrealistic degree. I mean, in real life it's sometimes really hard to know what the right thing to do is because you can't predict the outcome. The easiest or more obvious solution isn't always the most ethical, but you usually don't have much time to make that choice. I always chose Paragon because, in Mass Effect, I was safe in the belief that things would work out in the best way and I could always be a "good" person. It wasn't any harder to do the right thing versus doing the wrong thing, so I never had any incentive not to do the right thing. I'm using Paragon as a stand in for "right" and Renegade as a stand in for "wrong" though I understand that's a gross oversimplification and not necessarily true, in any case.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 9, 2017 18:14:21 GMT
I'm thrilled the system is gone.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2017 18:17:39 GMT
I'm thrilled the system is gone. Here's the soundtrack to that sentiment; but you'll have to do a bit of a mental exercise, and hear it as "thrill'd IT'S gone".
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2017 18:21:43 GMT
Paragon and Renegade were never supposed to be Good and Evil. One was supposed to be more compassionate, following the rules and big heart type, while the other was the victory at all costs type and rational approach (most of the time, mind you). And us that got the renegade approach more often than not, felt railroaded and screwed more times than it should've been. Yes, that is why I have liked the Paragon and Renegade, it was quite organic, real sort of thing. I am not sure what you mean in terms of getting screwed. I felt that Renegade Shepard actually was much more realistic, with a really good dialogue and voice-over. But, well, I dunno, I just love the Trilogy. I also never felt it was out of character to pick any option on the wheel, even if I was overall leaning to Renegade or Paragon. WARNING: I'm not even saying that this is what I did, but there are players that felt this way and complained long ago in the old BSN. And they were right. Ok, just some examples: Sabotage the genophage - Wrex and Eve alive - You do that and the epilogue shows you a devastated Tuchanka. Cure the genophage and the epilogue shows you a lot of happy krogan with their children rebuilding the planet. Now, assume from a renegade perspective ( even if you disagree with it) that you want to sabotage it because you don't want trillions of krogan running around in the galaxy tens of thousand of years later. You don't show this up in the epilogue (even if this is the most reasonable and likely scenario to happen) if you cured, and it doesn't show the rest of the galaxy happy instead if you sabotage it. I get why most people cure the genophage, because they can only think of Wrex and being best buddies with him, you could never betray him. But what about the long term, for everyone else? Other cases - Disable the Collector Base and pretty much anything else you do for Cerberus.You get screwed in the third game. No matter what, Cerberus will be against you - you can't even agree with the Illusive Man that controlling the reapers is the best option. If you think about it, how can you destroy such a valuable piece of information? And your squadmates will tell you that you did the wrong thing by giving him the base (even if they agree it's for the best on that conversation where you actually choose - What the??) You could study the Reapers, develop new weapons, understand your enemy. Look, there are billion years old ultra powerful machines that are coming to destroy everything you've ever known. How can destroying their piece of tech be the best outcome? The problem is, you have to give it to Cerberus and they screw with you in the third game. You can assume they'll just use it to their own ends and it turns out, they really do. Destroying it turns out to be really better (I mean, lorewise, not gameplay wise, because you only get 110 points and the game is still the same) You give Legion to Cerberus and all you get is a paycheck in ME2, he returns as an opponent in the third. You can't even use his information from Cerberus to fight better against the geth, or the reapers. Even David in Project Overlord (I know, I can never leave him with his brother, it's just not possible for me), but it's an alternative to leave him to be tortured by his brother to get information and control over the geth. None of that pays off in ME3 (And I understand completely those who felt it this way). Other example is the plot of ME2 as well. You have to recruit an expert team to destroy the Collectors, otherwise they would just keep abducting human colonists. The logical thing would be a time limit for this, the more you delay, the more they will abduct.However, the game is designed in a way that you can solve all of your squadmates personal problems and still save the day without a single casualty. The Collectors are never mentioned to have abducted more colonies during the game. If you were a renegade, you'd want to end the problem as soon as possible. Maybe you take more casualties on your team, but you'd save a lot more colonists. This never happens. You can be a totally nice person, save them all and be the best friend to all of your squadmates.Garrus loyalty mission - You convince him that Sidonis doesn't deserve to die and he actually feels better about this. In the renegade option you just take him out and Garrus would be implied to still feel guilty. Now, what if Sidonis wasn't this nice guy after all and wasn't suffering from survivor's guilt? See what I mean? What if he'd betrayed his team for money or power and was living the good life? The games were designed to always match the paragon way of being the best outcome (much more than the renegade one). That was a downer for me. Good thing there won't be this kind of thing anymore. A lot more grey, no more black and white. Apologies for the very long post, I don't even know if I was clear enough or said just a lot of nonsense. Sorry
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