Have Bioware's recent actions changed your mind?

Id suspect it's Krem, in the vein of taking a wild guess. 

Could be referring to Iron Bull.  I've seen threads by other posters referring to IB as an animal.  I'm not sure why.  Sentience is not exclusive to humans.

I'll still buy Andromeda, I'm still salty about the forum closure though

Personally, I would like to see a story and a universe that didn't diminish itself trying to cram in more social political issues, and instead would just stick to telling a compelling narrative with interesting and compelling elements that draw me into this universe. I don't care about the plights of the LGTB community anymore than I care about the issues of the hetero members of society in this universe. The struggles of minorities holds no interest to me, and neither does the actions of the majority.

I miss things like the Sylvans or Awakened from Dragon Age, or the Rachni from Mass Effect etc. Non-human elements that weren't put in place specifically to talk about this trending social topic or that. I don't hate characters like Krem or Dorian, or Steve, but I do hate that the focus of the narrative shifts to cover them at the expense of those other characters and elements that had no direct correlation with our boring human issues. What political statement were the developers trying to make with the Rachni Queen? What all encompassing soapbox did the Messenger and the rest of the Awakened Darkspawn have? They didn't. There was not direct correlation between characters and elements like that, and the real world, and I liked said elements because of it. I could enjoy talking to the Grand Oak in Origins without having environmentalism bashed over my head. I could look to the Rachni and see an alien species that wasn't a shallow representation for Native Americans and their struggles. Etc.


I would like ME:A to go back to things like that. Let me enjoy the universe without having to worry that this entire setting is nothing more than a platform on which to preach about real world topics. I play these games to escape reality, if I wanted to discuss LGTB problems, or abusive parental issues than I could just turn on the news or load up Twitter.

While the Rachni Queen's story could be seen in that light, it wasn't nearly as obvious and/or slanted in presentation as was the Genophage arc for example.

That's the difference I'm getting at. The Rachni and their narrative arc were put in the universe to explore an alien species that had little in common with humans. The Krogan and the Genophage were put in specially to comment on this one talking point. The same with Krem vs. the Grand Oak or the Awakened in Dragon Age.

One's purpose is to specifically draw light to a real world issue and bring it into this fantasy universe, and the other is a non-human element that helps lend depth to a setting that doesn't revolve entirely around us humans and our politics.

Not quite for me. I can see where your coming from, but I see all of this stuff as a watering down of the universe. Sure, NPCs like Krem may have a character, but the setting overall is now less nuanced. That's where I get annoyed.


Compare DA:Origins/Awakening to DA:Inquisition. 

In the first game we had:
Near human-level intelligent dogs in the form of the Mabari.
Sylvans
Golems
Werewolves
Awakened
Dragons that possessed a high level of intelligence/cunning
Intelligent spirits and demons that could talk, reason, and manipulate people

Now look at the most recent game:
Mabari are now just common dogs wondering the countryside
Sylvans are nonexistent
Golems are nonexistent
Werewolves are nonexistent
Awakened are nonexistent
Dragons are just wild animals with wings and a breath weapon
Spirits and Demons are just mindless monsters save for 2 very specific characters (who even then are more human than anything else).

But we get to include notable examples of homosexual and transgendered characters; a human issue.


Origins was far more diverse of a setting than Inquisition was IMO. In the first game, human and human-like perceptions, politics and issues were just a small part of a much larger whole. In the most recent game practically all of those non-human elements are gone and the setting is a human centric world in bad need of an exterminator.

The same can be said of Mass Effect 1 vs. Mass Effect 3

That is like saying there are no female Dwarves in Dragon Age II. They weren't for budget reasons, but it doesn't mean they exist off-screen.


The Golems and Werewolves and Awakened are out there, the trick now is how will they be utilized. You can argue that their "use" has peaked because they have been featured already, but it doesn't mean they still don't exist.

As far as the human/non-human issues go, we still see those perceptions through Dwarves, Qunari, Elves and the like. Their struggles are decidedly non-human, especially the Elves in this case since Inquisition has set up something big for them thanks to Solas.

We see some of them caring about the Blight in Origins, but did the Werewolves really care? Or the Golems? They were means to an end, and had character but not really a stake in it, just another group of soldiers to lead to the slaughter. I guess where I disagree is that Origins is a very human-centric game in that same way, it's a predominantly human problem, with a theme of camaraderie to overcome impossible odds....the same theme that runs through Inquisition. 

We also still encounter demons and spirits that can be reasoned with. I presume you mean Solas and Cole in regards to the two that are "human-like", but we also have some smaller side-quest examples, the spirit of command comes to mind as one, as does Ishamael, Envy and Fear, who while evil serve the purpose of giving the demons and the fade character this time around) and dragons as a function still serve the same point; a high level boss fight (with their intellect being a projection, not their function.

You are right, Origins is a diverse setting, but so is Inquisition I feel, just diverse in a different way. The Orlais/Tevene/Ferelden divide, the Templar/Mage conflict, the questions about faith and spirituality, the Qun and even the role you play as a kingmaker in events beyond your borders- Thedas has character to it id argue because of that focus, just as much as it did before. Socio-political conflict has no boundary in that regard, it goes beyond human/non-human issues and transforms into complex issues of morals and choice. 

Oh brother. Now I remember why I stopped going to the original BSN two years ago. I see I shouldn't have even come here either but . . . too late. Lemme say this and then I'm outta here. I promise I won't disrupt the boards further.

Anytime we talk about including someone who's not a straight white guy, it's instantly pandering, being pc, or being a on "sjw cruisade." God forbid a minority just gets to be a part of something without the majority complaining that we have partaken in the fantasy and "ruined" the experience by forcing them to think about our unfortunate reality . . . regardless of the fact that every single plot line in the original Mass Effect revolved around racism and slavery and even sexism to a degree. It's sad that we have to disguise black people as krogan before anyone sympathizes with us (yeah I said it).

It's always about being a social justice warrior, right? Minorities can't possibly just be tired of being marginalized in pretty much all entertainment anywhere ever. If this situation was flipped and every single video game that came out was about a black lesbian, these forums would burn to the ground.

Also, being against the status quo of "white is more important and duh bestus!!!!" doesn't automatically mean you hate white people. I would love to see people of color accurately depicted and included in video games. It doesn't mean I hate white people or want to exclude them from an experience we should all be sharing. Especially in rpgs, where the protagonist is not predefined and can be fully customized. Come on.

I won't be buying the game. Which doesn't have anything to do with Bioware's "recent actions", I just think the whole premise of going to Andromeda is ridiculous, and obviously designed as such to avoid having to address the endings.

I'll probably borrow it from a friend and see how it is. I'm not having great expectations, far from it.

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I think it is the only option available to them. Besides, what's so ridiculous about it?

Besides the fact that the Reapers are the only ones who could plausibly have the tech to actually get there?