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Post by Sartoz on Feb 18, 2017 14:26:43 GMT
<abbr title="Feb 18, 2017 9:09:27 GMT -5" class="o-timestamp time" data-timestamp="1487426967000">8, 2017 9:09:27 GMT -5</abbr> KamenRyder said: I'm also in the camp that Sara Ryder looks off but I'm not crying about it since I'm never gonna play default for neither of the siblings (did this for MET as well). I'm not sure what it is about Sara in game but I do find Fryda Wolff and Jayde Rossi attractive. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
I'm of the opinion that the original crude facial animation added to the "something is off" argument. Certainly my eye focused on her face because I knew something didn't fit but could not, at the time, articulate what it was. The video tech today is no where near manipulating the number of facial muscles that come into play when a person's face smiles, frowns, shows physical pain, looks stone cold or when a fulminating look pins you to the wall. Facial animation is in its infancy and it shows (imo). Bio still has time to fix these small issues before game launch. Just you wait until you see the size of the patch! ...
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Feb 18, 2017 14:31:04 GMT
Race.... Is make believe. Human race. Period. Everything else is trying to explain a coloring book to retarded children. Skin color is skin color, and it varies. My parents are both "white" of mostly "European" descent. My skin is slightly olive toned, but darker than my Mother's. My sister is almost Native American looking in the color of her skin, and my Dad looks like a typical white dude. Take a DNA test, find out how many "races" have fucked each other in the past to make your stupid ass... Like me, and everyone else, you are a mutt and talkinh about different "races" of human beings is, quite frankly, below the intellect of the BSN. Mostly. My complaint about Sara is the stupid face she makes disarming that gun. It looked like a damned cartoon, and was immersion breaking as hell.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 14:40:55 GMT
Race.... Is make believe. Human race. Period. Everything else is trying to explain a coloring book to retarded children. Skin color is skin color, and it varies. My parents are both "white" of mostly "European" descent. My skin is slightly olive toned, but darker than my Mother's. My sister is almost Native American looking in the color of her skin, and my Dad looks like a typical white dude. Take a DNA test, find out how many "races" have fucked each other in the past to make your stupid ass... Like me, and everyone else, you are a mutt and talkinh about different "races" of human beings is, quite frankly, below the intellect of the BSN. Mostly. My complaint about Sara is the stupid face she makes disarming that gun. It looked like a damned cartoon, and was immersion breaking as hell.Do you want something more serious and less "What's Up Doc?" It works ok for me as it expresses personality. There may have been a tweet this was being changed. Reminds me of this video.
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Post by Reznore on Feb 18, 2017 14:46:28 GMT
Nobody in their right mind would disarm someone that way anyway. Unless you want to be shot at point blank. It's an action movie scene, she might as well look silly doing that because it is frankly silly.
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Post by jastall on Feb 18, 2017 14:54:53 GMT
I find the automatic defense of people for Sara Ryder's looks to be no better really. I don't remember complaining about her in particular, but then I'm not really impressed with the faces and the animations we have seen of the rest of the human characters either. (funnily enough Drack and Vetra actually look better than Wrex and Garrus, and I'm talking here in terms of quality rather than subjective aesthetics) This is less of a case of Sara being "ugly", and more of a case of Bioware not doing a particularly impressive job with the new engine. That's a reasonable stance, I have no problem with it and partly agree. I think it's mostly the eyes, to be honest. Somehow Bioware isn't very good at them, so especially in stills they enhance the uncanny valley. That, and the sometimes overly glossy skin. It looks better in motion, but in screenies and .gifs it tends to look mediocre at best. However, there has been a vocal number of people who go beyond ''I don't like the face/faces'' into ''lol biower only does ugly gurls cause feminist agenda''. I think the OP was targeted more at these people, even if they did paint with too broad a brush initially.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 18, 2017 14:57:58 GMT
Nobody in their right mind would disarm someone that way anyway. Unless you want to be shot at point blank. It's an action movie scene, she might as well look silly doing that because it is frankly silly. Well. It IS feasible to disarm someone in a similar scenario, just not in the way they animated it. THIS way will get you killed. However a properly trained individual can pull something like this off, assuming the guy with the gun doesn't do the smart thing and simply stands out of grab range. Well, the idiocy of the turian is well established even if they managed to animate that disarm scene right.
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Post by amleth on Feb 18, 2017 15:00:24 GMT
Ok firstly her face looks totally uncanny valley, I'm not saying ugly, I'm saying it looks entirely off. Also who the hell thinks it's a good idea to shove a gun in someone's face like that? They were built as ranged weapons you know...
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Post by Reznore on Feb 18, 2017 15:01:21 GMT
Well. It IS feasible to disarm someone in a similar scenario, just not in the way they animated it. THIS way will get you killed. However a properly trained individual can pull something like this off, assuming the guy with the gun doesn't do the smart thing and simply stands out of grab range. With also guards right behind pointing their guns at her ? What she's doing in that scene is pointless and worse suicidal. I'm not saying it's terrible it's like the ME2 over the top renegade interrupts , you click and you giggle.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 15:03:41 GMT
Not trying to sound dramatic, but I really feel like it's getting outta hand. If Sara isn't a decent looking woman, then people need to start telling me just what the hell is, because I would date the shit outta this girl. The reason why I'm getting a tad bit offended by all this though, is because I'm looking at people pick apart little things like "Her nose is too big!" and "Her mouth has weird proportions, and her eyes look derpy." I mean jesus christ if people ever wonder why women obsess over their looks in our society, then here ya go. I'm not here to argue whether or not she looks amazing, but she absolutely doesn't look bad in the true sense of the word, so I don't know why people always gotta exaggerate. Furthermore it's funny that these same people complaining conveniently ignore the fact you can customize the look of your character. Something that's existed in Mass Effect since....um...the first game. Almost 10 years ago. Far as I'm concerned the Sara = Ugly thing is just a shitty meme at this point that people are just hoping on. I think a large part of why people are finding her unattractive is the weird animations. The quality of the facial animations in this game appear to be rather bad, and for whatever reason it seems worse with Sara than Scott. I can't recall any clips yet where Scott has had a weird or unsettling expression, but we've now seen several with Sara, including in the recent gameplay trailer. I think the realistic face paired with animations that are 'off' is triggering uncanny valley. It reminds me of some of the reaction to Miranda in ME2. Hardly anyone would argue that Yvonne Strahovski isn't a beautiful woman, but there were moments in ME2 were Miranda suffered from uncanny valley. As a result there were some players who found her unattractive and were quite vocal about it.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 18, 2017 15:08:06 GMT
The whole game seems to have a somewhat cartoony look, some more than others... but everything from color palate, to body proportions, to some of the faces give me that feel. To me, BioWare games always had a fair dose of cartoonish sensibilities in the way the whole thing was designed. Frankly, I love them more for it. I think people are just looking at the default Shepard which looked great for it's time and far from cartoonish. But tbh, any of the custom made shepards looked like Gumby and Clayface got weird and had a child. They were so bad compared to the faces I've seen designed for DA:I. I'm happy with the new faces, and I think they are leaps and bounds better than many games available.
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Post by Amirit on Feb 18, 2017 15:09:32 GMT
Not trying to sound dramatic, but I really feel like it's getting outta hand. If Sara isn't a decent looking woman, then people need to start telling me just what the hell is, because I would date the shit outta this girl. The reason why I'm getting a tad bit offended by all this though, is because I'm looking at people pick apart little things like "Her nose is too big!" and "Her mouth has weird proportions, and her eyes look derpy." I mean jesus christ if people ever wonder why women obsess over their looks in our society, then here ya go. I'm not here to argue whether or not she looks amazing, but she absolutely doesn't look bad in the true sense of the word, so I don't know why people always gotta exaggerate. Furthermore it's funny that these same people complaining conveniently ignore the fact you can customize the look of your character. Something that's existed in Mass Effect since....um...the first game. Almost 10 years ago. Far as I'm concerned the Sara = Ugly thing is just a shitty meme at this point that people are just hoping on. I suspect you did not really read all those "hate" posts (why bother, haters are going hate, right?). Let me break it down for you with bullet points: - BW took a gorgeous supermodel as Sara's face-model. Here goes your argument about "BW is trying to mimic RL and totally not obsessed with the looks".
- In game the resulting face looks like an insulting caricature of the original model.
- That horror has a complementary unnatural animation.
- Yet, in some light (character skill selection, or what was that screen in the first combat demonstration video) she does resembles original model and looks good.
- HENCE BW for years is unable to get normal lighting for their cut-scenes and GUILTY of transforming beautiful faces into unnatural caricatures.
- Once again - BW takes beautiful faces (choosing fully conscious beauty over "every day face") and unable to duplicate that beauty, making caricature look instead of natural or beautiful.
- People do hate unprofessional-ism and have all the rights to compare scanned faces in BW game with not scanned but hand-made, like Leliana, for example, where "magically" lighting become normal and faces do look natural.
- Logical question - why scan super models and pay them big money if you are incapable to duplicate their faces anyway and only waste money and upset gamers?
Again and again - that "hate" is about inability of BW to handle ingame visuals, nothing else. And the point of "make your own protagonist" is mute, since whatever you make with CC will look horrible with ingame lighting, yet, there is no such thing as "magic mirror" or "Black Emporium" in ME. So, people foresight hours of reloading with re-watching introduction (always the case in BW games) only to get a decent looking protagonist and have every reason to be upset about it.
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Post by laudable11 on Feb 18, 2017 15:15:06 GMT
Why did they do such a good job with broRyder's face and did an 'eh' job with femRyder's face? She ain't ugly at all. It just seems like they did a less than great job of capturing the face model's appearance.
Also: why be offended so easily?
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Post by elanor on Feb 18, 2017 15:15:34 GMT
It's because we've seen only Scott in cinematics and he looks good there. If they show him in game footage I'm pretty sure there will be complaining too. I like how Sara looks. And what is this about with gun scene. You talk like it's only her behaviour and Scott will not have the option to act like this. And as far I can remember when we play we can choose what to do, so I don't see why the hate on poor female character.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 18, 2017 15:17:18 GMT
It's because we've seen only Scott in cinematics and he looks good there. If they show him in game footage I'm pretty sure there will be complaining too. I like how Sara looks. And what is this about with gun scene. You talk like it's only her behaviour and Scott will not have the option to act like this. And as far I can remember when we play we can choose what to do, so I don't see why the hate on poor female character. The people that are complaining are referring to cinematics, I think. The dialogue is still cinematic. the gun scene is a problem for both Ryders, I don't think people are referring only to Sara for the disarm scene.
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Feb 18, 2017 15:19:31 GMT
To be fair, Sara and Scott both look a bit shit. Lucky for us, character creation is a thing
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Post by Reznore on Feb 18, 2017 15:22:21 GMT
Why did they do such a good job with broRyder's face and did an 'eh' job with femRyder's face? She ain't ugly at all. It just seems like they did a less than great job of capturing the face model's appearance. Also: why be offended so easily? Bro Ryder face is probably going to suffer too somewhat. His face was a tiny bit weird and showed the same kind of stretching on the mouth/nose area in the trailer when they confront the Khett ship.That very constipated rage face. Problem with the mouth when talking was also seen on Peebee during some demo. Let's face it animations aren't that good , but after a couple hours of playing the game , most people will get used to it and barely notice it.
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Post by DoomsdayDevice on Feb 18, 2017 15:27:05 GMT
I think what makes her look extra bad is the animation. I was just watching the latest combat trailer, and it had a bit of footage with Sara, and the facial animation is just so bad. It makes all the characters look weird, and her especially.
I don't have exceptionally high standards, but I think she does look bad. Same as with femshep in ME3. Femshep looks fantastic in the concept art, but in game her face is just wrong.
As for Ryder, I really, really do understand what people mean when they say she looks derpy. Because she really, really does. But I feel like it's mostly the animation. The model of her face reacts in a weird way to the sub-par facial animation. She looks weird in every single second of footage I've seen.
None of the character models look fantastic, but Sara really is the weirdest of what we've seen.
I don't understand how Bioware can be failing at this, since there have been such great facial models in the trilogy, (though ME3 femshep was really bad), but the facial animation seems to have become worse instead of better.
Not that I really care all that much, because I always make a custom character anyway, but I really do understand all the complaints.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 18, 2017 15:29:09 GMT
In case anyone forgot what Shepard looked like before the final release of the original game....the gameplay footage was worse
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 18, 2017 15:30:25 GMT
In case anyone forgot what Shepard looked like before the final release of the original game.... It's a bit different. They brought Mark Vanderloo after that and the demo shown where he had that face.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 15:40:39 GMT
In case anyone forgot what Shepard looked like before the final release of the original game....the gameplay footage was worse Concept art Shepard sort of looks like a young Julius Caesar with a shaved head:
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 18, 2017 15:43:21 GMT
In case anyone forgot what Shepard looked like before the final release of the original game.... It's a bit different. They brought Mark Vanderloo after that and the demo shown where he had that face. Well they did a good job finding a face model (Mark) to look like their original design! Still, i think it's safe to say the game looks absolutely incredible compared to when the series first debuted.
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Post by KR96 on Feb 18, 2017 15:47:52 GMT
I'm not sure if I agree with the claim that these complaints are offensive. People are entitled to their opinion in this case, if they would've liked Sara to look better than she does now, they're free to say so. If you feel the complete opposite, then you're entirely free to say that as well. I'm personally not invested in this discussion, since it's a ridiculous discussion to begin with as you can easily change her appearance if you're not happy with her default look, but I'm perfectly fine with people expressing their opinion on whether or not they like her look.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Feb 18, 2017 15:50:51 GMT
Caleston, otherwise known as Therum.. And Ashley.. dat voice. haha
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Post by Croatsky on Feb 18, 2017 15:54:38 GMT
I like how she looks.
She looks like a normal human being, without falling off generic like FemShep in ME1 and ME2 nor as a fashion model in ME3.
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Post by linksocarina on Feb 18, 2017 15:55:01 GMT
This is really a thing still?
Next you will tell me PeeBee, Liam and Cora look horrible! I get that people have preferences or can be critical of visual looks and what not for characters, but I do got to ask...do you want every character to be the same in terms of looks?
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