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Post by amoebae on Feb 21, 2017 6:02:36 GMT
The thing about comparing poor Sara to Lara is that Ryder's animations have to work for a lot more faces than just the one, since Sara's probably going to be pretty customizable... And if she isn't, someone (me) will riot. There are other presets that are based on face scans that are morphable, so yes we can customise Sara. However, we cannot edit the default Sara in any way.
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 21, 2017 6:06:24 GMT
The thing about comparing poor Sara to Lara is that Ryder's animations have to work for a lot more faces than just the one, since Sara's probably going to be pretty customizable... And if she isn't, someone (me) will riot. Yeah, the occasional attempts to compare BioWare games to Uncharted, Tomb Raider and the like, always ring hollow. Apples and oranges. Still, it's important that we let them know when we see something hinky. The immediate gripes about Sara's animations in December elicited prompt promises of improvements. The reaction to her dead-eye, corpsified character kit image got us new character kit images, and explanations as to why the initial effort kinda sucked. Tactful criticism, as most has been on this BSN, is vital.
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Post by PillarBiter on Feb 21, 2017 11:21:57 GMT
Neither Sara nor Cora look attractive to me. But that's personal and nobody's bussiness to judge.
My Scott is going to go on a dry run if no hot chicks are in the game :/ Unless he can hump Drack. Can't wait to bump quads.
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Post by vonuber on Feb 21, 2017 17:41:07 GMT
Different strokes for different folks....For me Sara wasn't ugly, she just looked weird in certain angles. Even in the latest vid with her laughing...something looked just off. Again maybe this is just an issue with the Frostbite engine itself and the skill level of the artists, but in "Rise of the Tomb Raider"...i know different game/developer....this version of Lara is not a sexy bombshell. She is animated extremely well, facial animations are amazing and even tho most of the game's sources was used on her, even her side characters was animated well....so it's not an issue of her being ugly, it's just something weird there is going on that i personally can't put my finger on... My current favourite video game character, this version of Crofty.
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 21, 2017 17:53:47 GMT
Different strokes for different folks....For me Sara wasn't ugly, she just looked weird in certain angles. Even in the latest vid with her laughing...something looked just off. Again maybe this is just an issue with the Frostbite engine itself and the skill level of the artists, but in "Rise of the Tomb Raider"...i know different game/developer....this version of Lara is not a sexy bombshell. She is animated extremely well, facial animations are amazing and even tho most of the game's sources was used on her, even her side characters was animated well....so it's not an issue of her being ugly, it's just something weird there is going on that i personally can't put my finger on... My current favourite video game character, this version of Crofty. I never played RotTR. That's some incredible work they've done. I know most here love being able to model their protagonist's face and choose the sex. I, though, would happily RP a character whose appearance is predetermined in exchange for visuals like that. They're immersive in their own right. Maybe I'd not prefer it all of the time, but sometimes such a game would be a real treat. RPG fans are very locked in on what an RPG must include and allow, though, so most include largely the same, repackaged features.
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Post by vonuber on Feb 21, 2017 18:34:49 GMT
I never played RotTR. That's some incredible work they've done. You're missing out. The plot is bobbins but as a game it's fantastic; looks (on pc anyway) incredible.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 21, 2017 18:50:25 GMT
The thing about comparing poor Sara to Lara is that Ryder's animations have to work for a lot more faces than just the one, since Sara's probably going to be pretty customizable... And if she isn't, someone (me) will riot. Yeah, the occasional attempts to compare BioWare games to Uncharted, Tomb Raider and the like, always ring hollow. Apples and oranges. Still, it's important that we let them know when we see something hinky. The immediate gripes about Sara's animations in December elicited prompt promises of improvements. The reaction to her dead-eye, corpsified character kit image got us new character kit images, and explanations as to why the initial effort kinda sucked. Tactful criticism, as most has been on this BSN, is vital. I think it's probably a fair point to state that anything the fans recognize, BioWare is likely already aware of. Part of the reason BioWare was trying to avoid showing any dialogue conversations is because they knew they were far from finished. Animation polish is always one of the last things the studio does right before launch. Given that the process has become far more sophisticated and taxing with each game, it really shouldn't be too surprising that they are still working on ironing out flaws. I think a lot of these criticisms would have more weight if these issues continue to persist post-launch. Of course, in my personal opinion, there are a lot more important things to worry about in this game rather than whether or not Sara's smile is being animated perfectly or not. At some point it becomes a matter of how much folks are willing to nitpick about what are arguably the smallest details.
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Post by SofNascimento on Feb 21, 2017 19:03:59 GMT
She looks perfectly normal but I forget she's not super model enough for the Bio fans........ But she's a model! That's the funniest part in all of this. Both Ryders are the likeness of real life models. So Bioware definitely wants both of them to look attractive and appealing.
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 21, 2017 19:07:04 GMT
I never played RotTR. That's some incredible work they've done. You're missing out. The plot is bobbins but as a game it's fantastic; looks (on pc anyway) incredible. I played the intital Tomb Raider reboot, and came away thinking that it had the best action gameplay mechanics I'd ever encountered. I repeatedly referenced it when members here expressed concern about MEA's new cover mechanics. I can imagine everything only got smoother. I know the visuals certainly look incredible. I wish MEA featured a bit more scrambling (TR style), and a bit less jet-packing, to be honest. They have to compete with popular shooter titles though, so I get it.
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 21, 2017 19:11:31 GMT
Yeah, the occasional attempts to compare BioWare games to Uncharted, Tomb Raider and the like, always ring hollow. Apples and oranges. Still, it's important that we let them know when we see something hinky. The immediate gripes about Sara's animations in December elicited prompt promises of improvements. The reaction to her dead-eye, corpsified character kit image got us new character kit images, and explanations as to why the initial effort kinda sucked. Tactful criticism, as most has been on this BSN, is vital. I think it's probably a fair point to state that anything the fans recognize, BioWare is likely already aware of. Part of the reason BioWare was trying to avoid showing any dialogue conversations is because they knew they were far from finished. Animation polish is always one of the last things the studio does right before launch. Given that the process has become far more sophisticated and taxing with each game, it really shouldn't be too surprising that they are still working on ironing out flaws. I think a lot of these criticisms would have more weight if these issues continue to persist post-launch. Of course, in my personal opinion, there are a lot more important things to worry about in this game rather than whether or not Sara's smile is being animated perfectly or not. At some point it becomes a matter of how much folks are willing to nitpick about what are arguably the smallest details. I agree that they generally know their business far better than we do. It's still important for them to know their customers' priorities and concerns, though. BioWare has generally proven to be a company eager to please. Honestly, they're probably too eager to please, in many cases, to the detriment of all; but the customer awareness is good.
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Post by vonuber on Feb 21, 2017 19:14:24 GMT
played the intital Tomb Raider reboot, and came away thinking that it had the best action gameplay mechanics I'd ever encountered. I repeatedly referenced it when members here expressed concern about MEA's new cover mechanics. I can imagine everything only got smoother. I know the visuals certainly look incredible. I wish MEA featured a bit more scrambling (TR style), and a bit less jet-packing, to be honest. They have to compete with popular shooter titles though, so I get it. The sequel improves on every aspect, even to the removal of the quick time events that plagued the previous game. Even the rapelling is better, you can do a great jump & axe throw to reach higher ledges, or as you drop off something to swing Tarzan style. Plus that hair; can't forget the hair.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 21, 2017 19:20:10 GMT
I think it's probably a fair point to state that anything the fans recognize, BioWare is likely already aware of. Part of the reason BioWare was trying to avoid showing any dialogue conversations is because they knew they were far from finished. Animation polish is always one of the last things the studio does right before launch. Given that the process has become far more sophisticated and taxing with each game, it really shouldn't be too surprising that they are still working on ironing out flaws. I think a lot of these criticisms would have more weight if these issues continue to persist post-launch. Of course, in my personal opinion, there are a lot more important things to worry about in this game rather than whether or not Sara's smile is being animated perfectly or not. At some point it becomes a matter of how much folks are willing to nitpick about what are arguably the smallest details. I agree that they generally know their business far better than we do. It's still important for them to know their customers' priorities and concerns, though. BioWare has generally proven to be a company eager to please. Honestly, they're probably too eager to please, in many cases, to the detriment of all; but the customer awareness is good. I agree. I only thought it was worth mentioning because folks literally keep hounding BioWare about it. They've known about the animation issue (specifically with Sara) since they first released the gameplay trailer at The Game Awards in December. I've seen Mac Walters and Aaryn Flynn openly address it several times either on Twitter or in interviews in the last two months. At some point continuously bringing it up is just beating a dead horse and potentially taking away attention from other issues that may also be plaguing the game.
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Post by theorigcylonhybrid on Feb 21, 2017 22:02:50 GMT
Wait.. the problem was not how Sara looked, it was the fact that her facial animations were unnatural and were a bit jarring because of it. How is this a thread? In the latest trailer, her animations still look unnatural and basically its 1 month til release now so the game is finished. It takes a month to prepare it for mass production around the world.
So I assume if its still bad, they will have to patch it after the game releases. But I'm surprised that bioware have not fixed the issue in the latest trailer release (they could easily have shown a scene with her animations touched up instead of the one they showed about warm beaches etc). So bioware must love getting complaints since this has been brought up 2 months ago.
P.S. The fans talking about how she looked i.e. nose too big etc as the OP points out, just don't know what they are talking about. They can't even recognize the issue.
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Post by Crim on Feb 22, 2017 4:19:34 GMT
21 pages of offensiveness. That's rather offensive. I'm offended. Does it offend anyone? Maybe if it reaches 25 pages, then possibly I'll be offended.
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DragonEffect
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Pathfinding my way through life.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Pathfinding my way through life.
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Post by DragonEffect on Feb 22, 2017 5:37:59 GMT
I hate these kind of complaints too because they can get super annoying ,especially since it is something that wont affect gameplay. As a woman, seeing people insisting that default Sara is ugly kinda makes me think "If she is ugly ,then they think Jayde Rossi is ugly and if Jayde Rossi is ugly then...what does that make me?" and upon that dreadful realization I start to feel bad BUT then again I remember that people in general, tend to judge the looks of what they see on a screen -whether it be a video game character or even a celebrity- way harsher than they would judge a 'real person' because that is how the brain works for some reason, I know I am guilty of that too.Standards in real life and standards in make believe are different ,it is like our brains start functioning differently because we examine looks from different kind of lenses. When you read 'ugly' just translate that to 'unattractive'. This is the way of thinking from internet crowd. They don't tend to see spectrum, only +, - and 'meh'. And for them to express their opinion in a heavy exaggerated way is like to make 'a stronger point'. Like: "She is ok." "What?!" Thinks that she is definitely not ok and tries to show that to his opponent with exaggeration. "Just look, she is ugly!".It's kinda stupidly badly worded but opinion itself is still there. And I did find her face unpleasant too. "So what?" someone can say. Like this: Let them complain. The thing that should least matter in a female character is her beauty or her looks. She's not a model. She's an astronaut on a mission of high scientific value. Why should her being more or less beautiful value or devalue her as a character? The truth is that the beauty factor shouldn't even be taken into account. Ignore their complaints. These are people stuck in the 19th century, when women were still forced to be beautiful to be valued and loved as human beings. To even be considered women in the first place. Hasn't our society evolved to establish that calling a woman ugly or a whore is no longer a valid form of criticism? That this spans from a patriarchal mentality based on the oppression of women? So there you have it. A bunch of primitive men - and women, too, because some of them are still brainwashed by this harmful philosophy - are using the same old prejudiced arguments to try and devalue the character. The character is ugly is their eyes? Such a pity. As if the character was created to satisfy their personal standards of beauty. Or their sexual fetishes. It WASN'T. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Here's why. People want this game because they want to live through that epic space adventure. Want to feel the awe, to interact with interesting extraordinary people, to survive against impossible odds. And main characters is someone they can relate to. If I may put that that way, main character is just a platform for player to project himself into fictional reality. And this is kinda hard thing to do is you find that platform unpleasant. Saying that those who criticize femRyder's look demand her to be hot space babe is exactly the same as saying that she is ugly - both extremes are wrong. People just want to have positive impression of her, not immediate errection. It doesn't necessary have to do anything with gender politics of gender prejudice etc. Let's take, I don't know, NFS Underground game for example. Player has basic cars and as the progression goes he can decorate the hell out of them. Does he do that because he ehh... hates basic cars because of their looks and his harmful philosophy? I would think that he just wants to drive a cool car - in game! As for being able to customize femRyder looks - people hype and invest their feelings in the game already. Siblings faces in promotional videos are faces of ME:A. And if unpleasant protagonist is already associated with future playthroughs there sure will be exaggerated outcry. And since this game is promising us great adventure, why not make it easier to relate ? To teach a lesson about patriarchal mentality? My god, this is AAA game about exploration, isn't it? I can not say anything about Bioware and their intentions. But you, DragonEffect, precisely want to shoehorn your 'enlightenment' down people throat at the expense of their enjoyment. And since shoehorning never works naturally or gracefully, at the expense of the story writing too. Too many fancy words only to completely miss the point. Just like Element Zero or whatever the other dude's name is. Wrote a lengthy comment to a two-sentence post that had nothing to do with him. lol I was expressing my opinion freely. Sara's ok. She looks nice to me. Be it animation, facial structure, whatever. She's perfect. And yet some people have been whining for days, page after page about it, even before the game is out. And not only here. There's another thread where a mod had to step in because a few members wouldn't stop bickering. This reminds me of the typical behavior you used to find on the old BSN official forum. Too much complaining from some people about some irrelevant thing or another. If anyone's shoehorning anything, to paraphrase you, it's the people insistently posting day after day about how the females in the game look horrid. Comparing Peebee to Shrek, saying Cora and Sara have a male facial structure and other random complaints they can come up with. Curiously, there are people who find that sort of opinion to be nothing other than bullshit. Like me, for instance. If my opinion of disagreement bothers you, you can always do as Cassandra says: Deal With It. You're a grown adult. I'm sure you can cope with the fact not everyone thinks just like you. Or that not everyone will buy the argument of a few crazy malcontents just because they repeat it incessantly.
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N3
Raising Hell with the Flavor XX
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
Origin: IvorySamoan
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Feb 22, 2017 5:46:11 GMT
It feels like BioWare has gone with 'blank slate' type designs with default Ryders: it's nigh on encouraging you to use their (apparently) super in-depth character creator, which I think is a good idea. Much like DA:O, what even was the default on that game? Shepard was carefully crafted and had a very definitive look (Sheploo and Femshep in ME3 especially), Scott and Sara look generic as fuck...but I think that's ok, they are a launch pad and a middle of the road option, they are neutral personified. Wait.. the problem was not how Sara looked, it was the fact that her facial animations were unnatural and were a bit jarring because of it. How is this a thread? In the latest trailer, her animations still look unnatural and basically its 1 month til release now so the game is finished. It takes a month to prepare it for mass production around the world. So I assume if its still bad, they will have to patch it after the game releases. But I'm surprised that bioware have not fixed the issue in the latest trailer release (they could easily have shown a scene with her animations touched up instead of the one they showed about warm beaches etc). So bioware must love getting complaints since this has been brought up 2 months ago. P.S. The fans talking about how she looked i.e. nose too big etc as the OP points out, just don't know what they are talking about. They can't even recognize the issue. See, what you're doing here is speaking for everyone: the animations are a bit janky, sure...but you saying that her look isn't a problem is only speaking for yourself, many don't like the look of Sara (and Scott for that matter, I think she's better than him and his teenager looking face fuzz lol). It's a subjective thing, but the fact we have an in-depth CC means it's a non-problem. Now the fact that we can't issue power commands to teammates and control their usage in battle, now that seems like a universal problem to me (unless the AI is ridiculously good in squad). Please be good, squad AI, for the love of Fornax!
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havox
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Post by havox on Feb 22, 2017 6:40:26 GMT
After scrolling through 24 pages of whiteknighting a fictional haracter (ahahahaha!), I finally realized who Sara reminds me of, She has no semblance to Jayde Rossi, she looks like Mrs. Potato Head to me: I'm a little sad Bioware, with all their expertise, millions of dollars budget and years of development, and this is the best they can come up with for the face of their marketing campaign.
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faerlyte
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I'm never here, but sometimes I am. >_>
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: Faerlyte
PSN: Faerlight
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Post by faerlyte on Feb 22, 2017 6:53:16 GMT
...and Scott Ryder doesn't suffer from the same shortcomings (appearance-wise or technical)? Except for the weird smile, which while it may not be the greatest rendered smile I've ever seen, I like it better than the really disturbing, and very few, Shepard smiles we got. Shepard was a stern, stick in the mud. Sara has exhibited more personality in a few brief trailers than Shepard did in an entire 3 game series.
They're not the most colorful or exotic designs at first glance, but that's not what makes a character or an individual anyway. I imagine in the long run I will like Sara better than I did Shepard, if the voice acting isn't too terrible.
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The Forum Elf
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Post by Dobby on Feb 22, 2017 6:54:44 GMT
She is a bit funny looking.
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Post by slimgrin on Feb 22, 2017 6:58:49 GMT
Too early to judge really. I'm not expecting Tomb Raider levels of animation, but honestly they need to be better than the little we've seen of her. What we've seen of Scott is frankly much better.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 22, 2017 7:02:04 GMT
...and Scott Ryder doesn't suffer from the same shortcomings (appearance-wise or technical)? Except for the weird smile, which while it may not be the greatest rendered smile I've ever seen, I like it better than the really disturbing, and very few, Shepard smiles we got. Shepard was a stern, stick in the mud. Sara has exhibited more personality in a few brief trailers than Shepard did in an entire 3 game series. They're not the most colorful or exotic designs at first glance, but that's not what makes a character or an individual anyway. I imagine in the long run I will like Sara better than I did Shepard, if the voice acting isn't too terrible. I don't personally have a problem with Sara's appearance. She's attractive, in my opinion. That being said, I absolutely agree Sara's smile is miles ahead of Shepard's smile. His smile is so horrible you have to laugh at it.
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faerlyte
N2
I'm never here, but sometimes I am. >_>
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: Faerlyte
PSN: Faerlight
Posts: 66 Likes: 162
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Post by faerlyte on Feb 22, 2017 7:10:07 GMT
...and Scott Ryder doesn't suffer from the same shortcomings (appearance-wise or technical)? Except for the weird smile, which while it may not be the greatest rendered smile I've ever seen, I like it better than the really disturbing, and very few, Shepard smiles we got. Shepard was a stern, stick in the mud. Sara has exhibited more personality in a few brief trailers than Shepard did in an entire 3 game series. They're not the most colorful or exotic designs at first glance, but that's not what makes a character or an individual anyway. I imagine in the long run I will like Sara better than I did Shepard, if the voice acting isn't too terrible. I don't personally have a problem with Sara's appearance. She's attractive, in my opinion. That being said, I absolutely agree Sara's smile is miles ahead of Shepard's smile. His smile is so horrible you have to laugh at it. Nothing like a pedo smile to brighten up your day XD. I don't have a problem with her either. She looks like a real person. Real people have flaws, imagined or otherwise. Nothing wrong with that.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 22, 2017 7:12:30 GMT
I don't personally have a problem with Sara's appearance. She's attractive, in my opinion. That being said, I absolutely agree Sara's smile is miles ahead of Shepard's smile. His smile is so horrible you have to laugh at it. Nothing like a pedo smile to brighten up your day XD. I don't have a problem with her either. She looks like a real person. Real people have flaws, imagined or otherwise. Nothing wrong with that. Lol! That is so wrong yet so true! If BioWare wanted to make a game about a pedo, it seems they already have ample experience in the animation department for that.
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ApocAlypsE
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Posts: 858 Likes: 951
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Nov 22, 2024 14:16:53 GMT
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ApocAlypsE
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August 2016
apocalypse
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Feb 22, 2017 8:38:34 GMT
After scrolling through 24 pages of whiteknighting a fictional haracter (ahahahaha!), I finally realized who Sara reminds me of, She has no semblance to Jayde Rossi, she looks like Mrs. Potato Head to me: I'm a little sad Bioware, with all their expertise, millions of dollars budget and years of development, and this is the best they can come up with for the face of their marketing campaign. UGHHHHHHH.... You aren't happy with Sara, you can do better than Bioware, fine! Go to the CC and change her to your liking. Why is this thread even has to exist...
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Aug 28, 2022 17:57:53 GMT
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Dazzle
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August 2016
dazzlingduchess
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
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Post by Dazzle on Feb 22, 2017 8:46:53 GMT
After scrolling through 24 pages of whiteknighting a fictional haracter (ahahahaha!), I finally realized who Sara reminds me of, She has no semblance to Jayde Rossi, she looks like Mrs. Potato Head to me: I'm a little sad Bioware, with all their expertise, millions of dollars budget and years of development, and this is the best they can come up with for the face of their marketing campaign. UGHHHHHHH.... You aren't happy with Sara, you can do better than Bioware, fine! Go to the CC and change her to your liking. Why is this thread even has to exist... Honey, I think you're getting a little worked up over what's really not all that serious a thread. Some people here like Sara but worry about the animations, some people think she's perfect, some people don't like how Sara looks and worry that their CC skills aren't up to par, and some People are just plain trolls. Please don't have a coronary.
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