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Post by clips7 on Feb 22, 2017 8:49:43 GMT
Wait.. the problem was not how Sara looked, it was the fact that her facial animations were unnatural and were a bit jarring because of it. How is this a thread? In the latest trailer, her animations still look unnatural and basically its 1 month til release now so the game is finished. It takes a month to prepare it for mass production around the world. So I assume if its still bad, they will have to patch it after the game releases. But I'm surprised that bioware have not fixed the issue in the latest trailer release (they could easily have shown a scene with her animations touched up instead of the one they showed about warm beaches etc). So bioware must love getting complaints since this has been brought up 2 months ago. P.S. The fans talking about how she looked i.e. nose too big etc as the OP points out, just don't know what they are talking about. They can't even recognize the issue. I agree....they really haven't shown much in terms of story dialogue or cut scenes and I can understand for sake of not spoiling anything story-wise, but i think this close to release the company is preparing for packaging and distribution. I can imagine that is what is taking place now. No way they polish things up a few days before launch then packaging and distribution plans are set. I do feel they are still doin some last minute touching up, but I think that comes to a halt when March hits... I believe most retailers have games in general at least a week before the date of the launch...Lastly is Sara or Alex Ryder's looks an issue?....Nope, but this will probably be the first time i use the editor....I didn't have an issue with maleShep/Femshep since they was modeled particularly well.
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Post by Sartoz on Feb 22, 2017 8:49:55 GMT
It's a subjective thing, but the fact we have an in-depth CC means it's a non-problem. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
In-depth CC you say? Do you have a link?
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Post by Sartoz on Feb 22, 2017 9:12:23 GMT
Too early to judge really. I'm not expecting Tomb Raider levels of animation, but honestly they need to be better than the little we've seen of her. What we've seen of Scott is frankly much better. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Either Flynn or Ian mentioned they used full facial capture and that the studio is new at this. Seems like Bio is trying to get a handle on the fine art of transferring the capture into its animation equivalent and the artists are learning the tool sets as well.... recall the "Behind the Scenes" video where PeeBee's face (aka shrek) was tweaked to smile by the artist. The tools may not have the granularity required for "fine tuning".
My take is that if the next trailer or two won't show full facial animation then Bio has abandoned the effort to polish the "warts".
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
Origin: IvorySamoan
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Feb 22, 2017 9:48:32 GMT
It's a subjective thing, but the fact we have an in-depth CC means it's a non-problem. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
In-depth CC you say? Do you have a link?
Mike Gamble tweeted regarding the character creator, also Shinobi talked about the depth/quality of it in our GAF thread. The words were something like "you can make a face better than default" or something, either way: using the new confirmed face scan tech, I'm sure it's pretty good: hopefully best in class. Can't be bothered hunting them down, feel free to look for yourself though
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Post by steamshipman on Feb 22, 2017 12:03:15 GMT
If anyone's shoehorning anything, to paraphrase you, it's the people insistently posting day after day about how the females in the game look horrid. Comparing Peebee to Shrek, saying Cora and Sara have a male facial structure and other random complaints they can come up with. Well, may be you should take into consideration what lies behind this bullshit. I risk to word it poorly but I'll try. What we actually have here? We have two sides implying pressure on each other. The more pressure goes from one side the more comes from another because 'those others still didn't get it'. Even those who were completely indifferent at first become passionate participants because topic getting wider and more thought out/wilder arguments are thrown in, invoking various 'wtf' reactions. Yes, it is a cycle. And it revolves around problem that is there. Yes for some people it's not a problem. For some it is but not big enough for that much of a noise. The thing is, so much noise doesn't come from the problem itself. For example - and I'm fully aware that I can be wrong - I do think that you said that Sara is perfect only because you have seen too much attacks on her. It is a protective reaction. Probably you simply liked her at first and when you felt the need to protect her you liked her even more - to the point when she became perfect. Something similar is going in the heads of "ugly" camp. Only they protect their comfort zone. And like you ( not every woman needs to be hot chick to exist, yes) they do have their point too. As I said they want to live through space adventure. Great experience is what they play the game for and this greatness is lessened when characters with whom they are supposed to form some kind of bond look unpleasant to them. I'll put it that way: you do a "noble" thing and protect diversity and those people do a "normal" thing - and protect their comfort with experiencing Bioware story. You think their point is of idiots and pigs and they think that your point is shallow 'diversity for the sake of diversity' and agenda. And when they see another one unconventional character and express their frustration, saying "A-ha-ha, eat this you pigs!" doesn't help either for them to accept your diversity nor for you to stop hearing those irritating "ugly!" cries. 'Patriarchal mentality' lesson stays unlearned and frustration grows.
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 22, 2017 16:27:25 GMT
...and Scott Ryder doesn't suffer from the same shortcomings (appearance-wise or technical)? Except for the weird smile, which while it may not be the greatest rendered smile I've ever seen, I like it better than the really disturbing, and very few, Shepard smiles we got. Shepard was a stern, stick in the mud. Sara has exhibited more personality in a few brief trailers than Shepard did in an entire 3 game series. They're not the most colorful or exotic designs at first glance, but that's not what makes a character or an individual anyway. I imagine in the long run I will like Sara better than I did Shepard, if the voice acting isn't too terrible. You're right about many of Shep's animations being terrible. Most of us just expected drastic improvement, though, by now. Mostly, excepting Sara's derpy expressions, the improvement does appear drastic. It's hard to compare Scott to Sara fairly. His scenes have featured more normal and serious expressions, and he's looked excellent. The same can be said for most other characters, as well. Maybe he'll look goofy when he smiles, too, but I don't think he will share Sara's issues. Her mouth is wider, and they've not adjusted for this in her emotes. It makes her look creepy, much like Shepard's infamous "rape-face".
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vanguarddoken
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I am the Adept! I casts the biotics that makes the peoples fly up!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by vanguarddoken on Feb 22, 2017 16:31:34 GMT
If there's one thing BioWare fans get used to, it's the people who genuinely believe anything that is not exactly what they want is flawed and wrong.
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 22, 2017 16:42:06 GMT
Too many fancy words only to completely miss the point. Just like Element Zero or whatever the other dude's name is. Wrote a lengthy comment to a two-sentence post that had nothing to do with him. lol That's the beauty of public discussion forums. Whenever you continue to completely miss the point, others will be there to counter-post and offer an opinion. See what I did there? You're focused on this "Biovar makes ugly grills" fight. You're right that those people exist and are obnoxious; but they aren't in this thread. Keep believing that's the issue, though, if you wish. I won't waste any time in this post, knowing that it's not sinking any further than your eyes. Next time you struggle to recall a name, or want to call someone out, though, you should tag them. It's a nice feature, complete with a directory and everything.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 16:46:33 GMT
It seems they edited the character kit. The face changed, improved in my humble opinion. I guess BW too felt that the previous version wasn't entirely ok.
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 22, 2017 16:55:19 GMT
It seems they edited the character kit. The face changed, improved in my humble opinion. I guess BW too felt that the previous version wasn't entirely ok. Scott and Sara got updated kits. You'll note Scott now has grown-up body proportions! The devs said they are still learning the tech used to create the kits; and that this accounted for the oddities in all of the kits.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Feb 22, 2017 17:08:14 GMT
After scrolling through 24 pages of whiteknighting a fictional haracter (ahahahaha!), I finally realized who Sara reminds me of, She has no semblance to Jayde Rossi, she looks like Mrs. Potato Head to me: I'm a little sad Bioware, with all their expertise, millions of dollars budget and years of development, and this is the best they can come up with for the face of their marketing campaign. UGHHHHHHH.... You aren't happy with Sara, you can do better than Bioware, fine! Go to the CC and change her to your liking. Why is this thread even has to exist... Have I ever told you the definition of... a joke?
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Post by vonuber on Feb 22, 2017 17:14:48 GMT
If there's one thing BioWare fans get used to, it's the people who genuinely believe anything that is not exactly what they want is flawed and wrong. Give it a rest will you, it's becoming tedious.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
Origin: IvorySamoan
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Feb 22, 2017 17:27:35 GMT
Never mind Sara, why can't Scott either shave that peach fuzz off his face or grow a hearty beard... ...god damn I hate his fluffy cheeks
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Post by Elsariel on Feb 22, 2017 17:36:18 GMT
UGHHHHHHH.... You aren't happy with Sara, you can do better than Bioware, fine! Go to the CC and change her to your liking. Why is this thread even has to exist... Well, yes, I can change her face however I want but that doesn't affect the facial animations which is the main thing a lot of people are worried about. It'll still look weird when she smiles if they don't fix that piece. I have faith, though, that they are going to or have already fixed it to make it look more natural so I'm not too fussed about it. Time will tell, of course.
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Post by Crim on Feb 22, 2017 18:10:09 GMT
Maybe if it reaches 25 pages, then possibly I'll be offended. Well, what do you know, page 25 is here!...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 20:11:41 GMT
It's coming from a little bit of one camp, and a little bit of another.
Those two camps being people who think the animations and textures are bad, and feel like Bioware should have a better handle of Frostbite by now, and the people who are petty assholes.
I don't really agree with the former camp. I think the animations are serviceable. Not perfect, sure, but what is? Games take a lot of time and money. BioWare just seems to have opted to put their time and money somewhere else. That's fine. It might even prove to be a good thing.
The latter camp, however, are extremely annoying and shallow people.
Just be sure you know who you're talking to before you complain about this issue. I get what you're saying, but some people just want more from their game, and there's nothing wrong with that, even if you and I are satisfied.
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Post by Cyonan on Feb 22, 2017 21:28:52 GMT
I don't really agree with the former camp. I think the animations are serviceable. Not perfect, sure, but what is? Games take a lot of time and money. BioWare just seems to have opted to put their time and money somewhere else. That's fine. It might even prove to be a good thing. The problem those of us in this camp have is that the animations are just enough to cause the uncanny valley effect for us, which makes Sara seem almost but not quite Human in her facial animations and it becomes really unsettling. It's not that they aren't perfect as much as they just hit that area where it becomes very noticeable. Though BioWare has already said that they're working on polishing up the animations.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 21:33:17 GMT
I don't really agree with the former camp. I think the animations are serviceable. Not perfect, sure, but what is? Games take a lot of time and money. BioWare just seems to have opted to put their time and money somewhere else. That's fine. It might even prove to be a good thing. The problem those of us in this camp have is that the animations are just enough to cause the uncanny valley effect for us, which makes Sara seem almost but not quite Human in her facial animations and it becomes really unsettling. It's not that they aren't perfect as much as they just hit that area where it becomes very noticeable. Though BioWare has already said that they're working on polishing up the animations. That's perfectly fine, tbh. I don't have any issue with the fact that they aren't working for you. I just don't really have that issue. Rather than looking uncanny, I mostly just see them as being stylized. They have a bit of a cartoony look to them, imho. But better is always good, so here's hoping everyone can be satisfied in the end.
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Post by Elsariel on Feb 22, 2017 21:35:00 GMT
I don't really agree with the former camp. I think the animations are serviceable. Not perfect, sure, but what is? Games take a lot of time and money. BioWare just seems to have opted to put their time and money somewhere else. That's fine. It might even prove to be a good thing. The problem those of us in this camp have is that the animations are just enough to cause the uncanny valley effect for us, which makes Sara seem almost but not quite Human in her facial animations and it becomes really unsettling. It's not that they aren't perfect as much as they just hit that area where it becomes very noticeable. Though BioWare has already said that they're working on polishing up the animations. Exactamundo!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 21:37:56 GMT
Never mind Sara, why can't Scott either shave that peach fuzz off his face or grow a hearty beard... ...god damn I hate his fluffy cheeks I'm almost 22, and I can't grow a proper beard. Comes with being a young person, tbh. I mean, ideally you'd just shave it all off, which is what I try to do, but shaving every three days is a pain in the ass. I usually don't do it for a week or two, resulting in Scott-face. Except I look worse, because I'm not a model, and my hair does grow in quite fast, so it's long and messy, but patchy. It actually looks gross. The struggle is real.
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Post by legacyshep on Feb 22, 2017 21:54:22 GMT
Never mind Sara, why can't Scott either shave that peach fuzz off his face or grow a hearty beard... ...god damn I hate his fluffy cheeks I like Scott's face. He look's a lot more 'normal' than Shepard did, like an attractive average Joe. I'm also an advocate of cheek fluff, so lay off
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Post by vonuber on Feb 22, 2017 21:59:46 GMT
For what it's worth I thought a real 'live' test (of the animations from RotR would be interesting as a comparator, taken as the idle animations instead of a cutscene:
I made her head bigger so you could see it easier. Oh, and rainbows.
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Post by theorigcylonhybrid on Feb 22, 2017 22:55:54 GMT
It feels like BioWare has gone with 'blank slate' type designs with default Ryders: it's nigh on encouraging you to use their (apparently) super in-depth character creator, which I think is a good idea. Much like DA:O, what even was the default on that game? Shepard was carefully crafted and had a very definitive look (Sheploo and Femshep in ME3 especially), Scott and Sara look generic as fuck...but I think that's ok, they are a launch pad and a middle of the road option, they are neutral personified. Wait.. the problem was not how Sara looked, it was the fact that her facial animations were unnatural and were a bit jarring because of it. How is this a thread? In the latest trailer, her animations still look unnatural and basically its 1 month til release now so the game is finished. It takes a month to prepare it for mass production around the world. So I assume if its still bad, they will have to patch it after the game releases. But I'm surprised that bioware have not fixed the issue in the latest trailer release (they could easily have shown a scene with her animations touched up instead of the one they showed about warm beaches etc). So bioware must love getting complaints since this has been brought up 2 months ago. P.S. The fans talking about how she looked i.e. nose too big etc as the OP points out, just don't know what they are talking about. They can't even recognize the issue. See, what you're doing here is speaking for everyone: the animations are a bit janky, sure...but you saying that her look isn't a problem is only speaking for yourself, many don't like the look of Sara (and Scott for that matter, I think she's better than him and his teenager looking face fuzz lol). It's a subjective thing, but the fact we have an in-depth CC means it's a non-problem. Now the fact that we can't issue power commands to teammates and control their usage in battle, now that seems like a universal problem to me (unless the AI is ridiculously good in squad). Please be good, squad AI, for the love of Fornax!And as you stated, you can change her look if you want to anything and because of that its not a problem. So what I said still stands. The facial animations however cannot be changed manually and need to be corrected through a patch. That is a real problem relative to how a customisable character looks.... The fact that that's what people are pointing out is really very dumb. It takes 2 minutes of your time to fix her appearance as opposed to a gamewide glitch in animations.
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Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
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Post by helios969 on Feb 22, 2017 23:11:21 GMT
Well, I've been debating whether I wanted to wade into the muck, but since the "discussion" warranted 25 pages I'll bite. Sara is quite lovely. Anyone that thinks otherwise must exclusively date super models or porn stars, (and no, 2D girlfriends do not count). I do think there are some issues with wonky animations, but I've noticed them with other characters. I suspect Sara was specifically targeted (by a good many) to troll for a response...and of course BSNers are quick to feed the beast. I don't know why it really matters since if you truly do not like her looks, there will be a CC to create your ideal...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 23:40:29 GMT
Sara is legitimately the most attractive character they've shown off so far, imho. Twincest pls.
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