The Elder King
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 19631
Posts: 6,370 Likes: 8,285
inherit
104
0
Nov 25, 2024 21:13:35 GMT
8,285
The Elder King
6,370
August 2016
theelderking
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
19631
|
Post by The Elder King on Feb 24, 2017 9:41:35 GMT
It makes Ryder a potential Gary/Mary sue within the context of story. And a Potential Mary/Gary Sue can make any story bad. Also good characterization does involved with some limitations or flaws. Many people find a Gary/Mary Sue characters bad due to a lack of challenge and bad characterization for that said character. There is a massive differences in being capable and being a Sue level of capable. And Shepard wasnt one? I guess people would've liked, if this turns out to work exactly like in ME, that Ryder was different from Shepard in this regard.
|
|
Croatsky
N4
Amateur Reporter
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: CroGamer002
Posts: 2,288 Likes: 5,225
inherit
Amateur Reporter
2287
0
Nov 25, 2024 23:14:30 GMT
5,225
Croatsky
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
2,288
December 2016
croatsky
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
CroGamer002
|
Post by Croatsky on Feb 24, 2017 10:10:17 GMT
It makes Ryder a potential Gary/Mary sue within the context of story. And a Potential Mary/Gary Sue can make any story bad. Also good characterization does involved with some limitations or flaws. Many people find a Gary/Mary Sue characters bad due to a lack of challenge and bad characterization for that said character. There is a massive differences in being capable and being a Sue level of capable. And Shepard wasnt one? Shepard was and it was one of the biggest criticism for Shepard's character. Ryder could have escape that trope, hell he/she is set up to be a becoming a hero story not being one already. Yet, it looks like Bioware just can't help itself to not rehash it's own same plot structures.
|
|
inherit
1148
0
858
armass81
684
Aug 23, 2016 11:48:55 GMT
August 2016
armass81
|
Post by armass81 on Feb 24, 2017 10:12:13 GMT
Shepard was and it was one of the biggest criticism for Shepard's character. Ryder could have escape that trope, hell he/she is set up to be a becoming a hero story not being one already. Yet, it looks like Bioware just can't help itself to not rehash it's own same plot structures. I did not expect any more to be honest, its been pretty clear to me that theyre making Ryder baby Shepard so to speak.
|
|
Croatsky
N4
Amateur Reporter
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: CroGamer002
Posts: 2,288 Likes: 5,225
inherit
Amateur Reporter
2287
0
Nov 25, 2024 23:14:30 GMT
5,225
Croatsky
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
2,288
December 2016
croatsky
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
CroGamer002
|
Post by Croatsky on Feb 24, 2017 10:17:13 GMT
Shepard was and it was one of the biggest criticism for Shepard's character. Ryder could have escape that trope, hell he/she is set up to be a becoming a hero story not being one already. Yet, it looks like Bioware just can't help itself to not rehash it's own same plot structures. I did not expect any more to be honest, its been pretty clear to me that theyre making Ryder baby Shepard so to speak. I have low expectations and I'm already getting disappointed with story department.
|
|
inherit
2266
0
May 10, 2017 22:11:35 GMT
1,212
warbaby2
1,418
December 2016
warbaby2
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by warbaby2 on Feb 24, 2017 10:43:35 GMT
To be fair, most game protagonists - especially when they survive for several games - are basically Mary/Gary Sues... I mean, they either win or you don't play. Lara Croft, Revan, Geralt,... they can f-up occasionally due to story reasons, but in the end they always win and turn out stronger, smarter and better then anyone else.
Problem with the latest BioWare main characters is: They are practically gods from the get go, having some innate special ability that make then better then anyone from minute one of the game. Shepard at least was a veteran soldier and achieved his/her specter status through merit, not space magic. Hawke was a regular human being too... but the Inquisitor and Ryder: Chosen ones market for greatness from the start.
Cheap...
|
|
zaefkol
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
Posts: 443 Likes: 1,352
inherit
3299
0
1,352
zaefkol
443
February 2017
zaefkol
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
|
Post by zaefkol on Feb 24, 2017 11:02:02 GMT
To be fair, most game protagonists - especially when they survive for several games - are basically Mary/Gary Sues... I mean, they either win or you don't play. Lara Croft, Revan, Geralt,... they can f-up occasionally due to story reasons, but in the end they always win and turn out stronger, smarter and better then anyone else. Problem with the latest BioWare main characters is: They are practically gods from the get go, having some innate special ability that make then better then anyone from minute one of the game. Shepard at least was a veteran soldier and achieved his/her specter status through merit, not space magic. Hawke was a regular human being too... but the Inquisitor and Ryder: Chosen ones market for greatness from the start. Cheap... I liked Hawke; he's my favorite Dragon Age protagonist.
In fact, for as much flak as DA2 gets, it had a lot of really interesting concepts going for it. I loved the three act story structure, for example, and feel that if that game hadn't been rushed out it could really have worked. If they hadn't reused so many environments; if they'd fixed the annoying waves of enemies dropping in on each battle, and if they'd worked to make Kirkwall feel like a vibrant city that evolved through the years based on the events of each act and to some extent because of the player's choices, the game could have been great.
I just worry that the reception the game got from fans has scared Bioware off from making the same kind of interesting and experimental story telling choices moving forward.
Which brings me back to MEA and why I feel so many elements feel like retreads of earlier Mass Effect games and other sci-fi stories.
|
|
inherit
2266
0
May 10, 2017 22:11:35 GMT
1,212
warbaby2
1,418
December 2016
warbaby2
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by warbaby2 on Feb 24, 2017 11:10:31 GMT
In fact, for as much flak as DA2 gets, it had a lot of really interesting concepts going for it. I loved the three act story structure, for example, and feel that if that game hadn't been rushed out it could really have worked. If they hadn't reused so many environments; if they'd fixed the annoying waves of enemies dropping in on each battle, and if they'd worked to make Kirkwall feel like a vibrant city that evolved through the years based on the events of each act and to some extent because of the player's choices, the game could have been great.
I just worry that the reception the game got from fans has scared Bioware off from making the same kind of interesting and experimental story telling choices moving forward.
Which brings me back to MEA and why I feel so many elements feel like retreads of earlier Mass Effect games and other sci-fi stories.
Agreed... I also really liked the art style of DA2, pity the gameplay was so rushed. Ah well, BW is so corporate now, they have lost any ability - or will - to innovate... aside the fact they lost much of their writing and design talent and replaced it with... let's say, questionable hires.
|
|
davkar
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
Posts: 581 Likes: 984
inherit
3305
0
984
davkar
581
February 2017
davkar
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
|
Post by davkar on Feb 24, 2017 11:22:13 GMT
Maybe the credit goes to SAM, he/it is compatible with that tech. He looks like (3 min ND video) a geth with the reaper upgrades, maybe papaRyder dabbled in some forbidden sciences. And since the Remnants used (are?) these robotic squid things they could 'recognize' SAM as one of their own. Although that would imply some kind of reaper involvement in the andromeda too and I'm not sure if I want any of that baggage in this new galaxy. Nah, instant chosen one is fine. Everything is just a reused idea at this point. If the execution is good then I'll be okay with it.
|
|
The Elder King
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 19631
Posts: 6,370 Likes: 8,285
inherit
104
0
Nov 25, 2024 21:13:35 GMT
8,285
The Elder King
6,370
August 2016
theelderking
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
19631
|
Post by The Elder King on Feb 24, 2017 11:48:50 GMT
In fact, for as much flak as DA2 gets, it had a lot of really interesting concepts going for it. I loved the three act story structure, for example, and feel that if that game hadn't been rushed out it could really have worked. If they hadn't reused so many environments; if they'd fixed the annoying waves of enemies dropping in on each battle, and if they'd worked to make Kirkwall feel like a vibrant city that evolved through the years based on the events of each act and to some extent because of the player's choices, the game could have been great.
I just worry that the reception the game got from fans has scared Bioware off from making the same kind of interesting and experimental story telling choices moving forward.
Which brings me back to MEA and why I feel so many elements feel like retreads of earlier Mass Effect games and other sci-fi stories.
Agreed... I also really liked the art style of DA2, pity the gameplay was so rushed. Ah well, BW is so corporate now, they have lost any ability - or will - to innovate... aside the fact they lost much of their writing and design talent and replaced it with... let's say, questionable hires. It's not only the gameplay. The side quests, Kirkwall, the reused areas, the act 3, all the game would've benefit greatly from at least another year of development. I'm concerned about some parts of Andromeda, and I'd agree that those spoilers weren't something I like (although as I said, I much prefer this plot for the sibling and Alec then the classical one), but people are acting like Bioware in the past had some innovative or mind blowing plots or concepts for their story. They didn't. Bioware's plots/main stories where always quite conservative and generic. What they shine/shined in was the execution and storytelling of said plots. I'm not saying that they shouldn't try to improve on this regards, but it's hardly something it never happened in their games before.
|
|
inherit
2266
0
May 10, 2017 22:11:35 GMT
1,212
warbaby2
1,418
December 2016
warbaby2
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by warbaby2 on Feb 24, 2017 11:53:21 GMT
Agreed... I also really liked the art style of DA2, pity the gameplay was so rushed. Ah well, BW is so corporate now, they have lost any ability - or will - to innovate... aside the fact they lost much of their writing and design talent and replaced it with... let's say, questionable hires. It's not only the gameplay. The side quests, Kirkwall, the reused areas, the act 3, all the game would've benefit greatly from at least another year of development. I'm concerned about some parts of Andromeda, and I'd agree that those spoilers weren't something I like (although as I said, I much prefer this plot for the sibling and Alec then the classical one), but people are acting like Bioware in the past had some innovative or mind blowing plots or concepts for their story. They didn't. Bioware's plots/main stories where always quite conservative and generic. What they shine/shined in was the execution and storytelling of said plots. I'm not saying that they shouldn't try to improve on this regards, but it's hardly something it never happened in their games before. True, then again, they did screw up more and more often since ME3... the original dark energy plot wasn't mind blowing either, but at least it was somewhat original and - more importantly - it made more sense for the rest of the series... down to the friggin title! I just hope, whatever they do, they at least stick to it and tell it well...
|
|
The Elder King
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 19631
Posts: 6,370 Likes: 8,285
inherit
104
0
Nov 25, 2024 21:13:35 GMT
8,285
The Elder King
6,370
August 2016
theelderking
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
19631
|
Post by The Elder King on Feb 24, 2017 11:57:02 GMT
It's not only the gameplay. The side quests, Kirkwall, the reused areas, the act 3, all the game would've benefit greatly from at least another year of development. I'm concerned about some parts of Andromeda, and I'd agree that those spoilers weren't something I like (although as I said, I much prefer this plot for the sibling and Alec then the classical one), but people are acting like Bioware in the past had some innovative or mind blowing plots or concepts for their story. They didn't. Bioware's plots/main stories where always quite conservative and generic. What they shine/shined in was the execution and storytelling of said plots. I'm not saying that they shouldn't try to improve on this regards, but it's hardly something it never happened in their games before. True, then again, they did screw up more and more often since ME3... the original dark energy plot wasn't mind blowing either, but at least it was somewhat original and - more importantly - it made more sense for the rest of the series... down to the friggin title! I just hope, whatever they do, they at least stick to it and tell it well... Eh, for me the situation befweeb the dark energy plot and the starbrat can be summed up in 'pick your poison'. It's just a matter of picking the one I dislike less. I do agree on hoping they nailed the execution of the story. And hopefully the thing that makes Ryder special is acquired is a slightly more interesting way then Shepard did.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
3300
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 12:19:55 GMT
Maybe the credit goes to SAM, he/it is compatible with that tech. He looks like (3 min ND video) a geth with the reaper upgrades, maybe papaRyder dabbled in some forbidden sciences. And since the Remnants used (are?) these robotic squid things they could 'recognize' SAM as one of their own. Although that would imply some kind of reaper involvement in the andromeda too and I'm not sure if I want any of that baggage in this new galaxy. Nah, instant chosen one is fine. Everything is just a reused idea at this point. If the execution is good then I'll be okay with it. I also thought it might be that SAM, possibly permanently fused with our protagonist's brain, is the "special" aspect of Ryder, and because of its compatibility with Remnant tech.
|
|
inherit
2266
0
May 10, 2017 22:11:35 GMT
1,212
warbaby2
1,418
December 2016
warbaby2
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by warbaby2 on Feb 24, 2017 12:28:13 GMT
Maybe the credit goes to SAM, he/it is compatible with that tech. He looks like (3 min ND video) a geth with the reaper upgrades, maybe papaRyder dabbled in some forbidden sciences. And since the Remnants used (are?) these robotic squid things they could 'recognize' SAM as one of their own. Although that would imply some kind of reaper involvement in the andromeda too and I'm not sure if I want any of that baggage in this new galaxy. Nah, instant chosen one is fine. Everything is just a reused idea at this point. If the execution is good then I'll be okay with it. I also thought it might be that SAM, possibly permanently fused with our protagonist's brain, is the "special" aspect of Ryder, and because of its compatibility with Remnant tech. Problem there: All human pathfinder team members have those SAM implants... I still think it's genetic, which means it's either engineered or momRyders genes where special too.
|
|
SKAR
N3
Can you dig it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: SKAR5903
Posts: 397 Likes: 286
inherit
758
0
286
SKAR
Can you dig it?
397
August 2016
skar
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
SKAR5903
|
Post by SKAR on Feb 24, 2017 13:09:32 GMT
What if it ends up being something like...the Remenant is the progenitor of the Human race and thats why we can interact with the stuff rather then the Kett...at this point that wouldn't shock me either. What's that trope called? tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AdvancedAncientHumansSounds like Halo
|
|
inherit
2266
0
May 10, 2017 22:11:35 GMT
1,212
warbaby2
1,418
December 2016
warbaby2
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by warbaby2 on Feb 24, 2017 13:14:57 GMT
What if it ends up being something like...the Remenant is the progenitor of the Human race and thats why we can interact with the stuff rather then the Kett...at this point that wouldn't shock me either. What's that trope called? tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AdvancedAncientHumansSounds like Halo ...and Prometheus, and X-files, and... half of scifie stories out there. Coupled with the technological singularity plot ME3 turned out to be, they'd have gone through pretty much the biggest scifie tropes in four games.
|
|
SKAR
N3
Can you dig it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: SKAR5903
Posts: 397 Likes: 286
inherit
758
0
286
SKAR
Can you dig it?
397
August 2016
skar
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
SKAR5903
|
Post by SKAR on Feb 24, 2017 13:35:10 GMT
...and Prometheus, and X-files, and... half of scifie stories out there. Coupled with the technological singularity plot ME3 turned out to be, they'd have gone through pretty much the biggest scifie tropes in four games. I don't mind it but I hope there's a lot more to it.
|
|
inherit
1227
0
3,700
Phantom
2,668
August 2016
deathscepter
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Phantom on Feb 24, 2017 13:48:22 GMT
It makes Ryder a potential Gary/Mary sue within the context of story. And a Potential Mary/Gary Sue can make any story bad. Also good characterization does involved with some limitations or flaws. Many people find a Gary/Mary Sue characters bad due to a lack of challenge and bad characterization for that said character. There is a massive differences in being capable and being a Sue level of capable. And Shepard wasnt one? Well A solid argument can made for that with Shepard, doubly so within ME3 you can make an argument that he is a gary sue. Player Power Fantasy is a common trope within video games and within ME3, they took it to 11 with Shepard.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
2540
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 15:18:52 GMT
Unless all humans can interact with Remnant technology, otherwise, if only Ryder, then yes, that sucks. Here we go again. Gain authority by being special instead of actually earning it.
|
|
The Elder King
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 19631
Posts: 6,370 Likes: 8,285
inherit
104
0
Nov 25, 2024 21:13:35 GMT
8,285
The Elder King
6,370
August 2016
theelderking
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
19631
|
Post by The Elder King on Feb 24, 2017 15:20:15 GMT
Unless all humans can interact with Remnant technology, otherwise, if only Ryder, then yes, that sucks. Here we go again. Gain authority by being special instead of actually earning it. Something like that was bound to happen regardless though. We do know the siblings aren't the ones who were supposed to succeeed to Alec, and that we would before we 'earn' that title.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
2540
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 15:21:57 GMT
Well A solid argument can made for that with Shepard, doubly so within ME3 you can make an argument that he is a gary sue. Player Power Fantasy is a common trope within video games and within ME3, they took it to 11 with Shepard. To be fair, Shepard was about to become a spectre anyway, not because they came in contact with a prothean beacon. The visions were only the way to understand what you were up against, it wasn't the reason why you became the leader of everyone later on. That was earned. Ryder becoming pathfinder just because he/she can interact with Remnant technology (if that is indeed what happens) is horrible. Same thing I felt with the Inquisitor. PS: Of course later on, you end up earning your title, but the problem, for me at least, is the way you acquire it in the first place.
|
|
The Elder King
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 19631
Posts: 6,370 Likes: 8,285
inherit
104
0
Nov 25, 2024 21:13:35 GMT
8,285
The Elder King
6,370
August 2016
theelderking
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
19631
|
Post by The Elder King on Feb 24, 2017 15:31:07 GMT
Well A solid argument can made for that with Shepard, doubly so within ME3 you can make an argument that he is a gary sue. Player Power Fantasy is a common trope within video games and within ME3, they took it to 11 with Shepard. To be fair, Shepard was about to become a spectre anyway, not because they came in contact with a prothean beacon. The visions were only the way to understand what you were up against, it wasn't the reason why you became the leader of everyone later on. That was earned. Ryder becoming pathfinder just because he/she can interact with Remnant technology (if that is indeed what happens) is horrible. Same thing I felt with the Inquisitor. PS: Of course later on, you end up earning your title, but the problem, for me at least, is the way you acquire it in the first place. We still don't know if we become Pathfinder for that. We know that's the reason why the archon hunts us. As on Shepard, while you're right on the Spectre status, Shepard still is special because he's the only one that can hunt Saren, or so is stated, because of the visions. And even if you don't consider that, ME2 certifies that with his death and rebirth, which happens because he's the only one that can stop the Reapers.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
2540
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 15:40:03 GMT
To be fair, Shepard was about to become a spectre anyway, not because they came in contact with a prothean beacon. The visions were only the way to understand what you were up against, it wasn't the reason why you became the leader of everyone later on. That was earned. Ryder becoming pathfinder just because he/she can interact with Remnant technology ( if that is indeed what happens) is horrible. Same thing I felt with the Inquisitor. PS: Of course later on, you end up earning your title, but the problem, for me at least, is the way you acquire it in the first place. We still don't know if we become Pathfinder for that. We know that's the reason why the archon hunts us. As on Shepard, while you're right on the Spectre status, Shepard still is special because he's the only one that can hunt Saren, or so is stated, because of the visions. And even if you don't consider that, ME2 certifies that with his death and rebirth, which happens because he's the only one that can stop the Reapers. As I said. As for Shepard, it wasn't mentioned or implied anywhere that he/she was the only one that could interact with the beacons, or the only one apt to hunt Saren because of it, in fact, both Feros and Noveria you had previous reports of Saren and associates having business there, Virmire you had a report from STG, and they needed Liara to interpret the visions to go to Ilos later. The fact that Shepard was "special", as all of our protagonists end up becoming, is for badassery, not just because of some power you acquire earlier (although that may or may not help later, extending your natural abilities). That's why they were charged for hunting Saren. Imagine if Conrad Verner acquired the prothean visions instead, Shepard would merely interpret them from him and be the hero of the story anyway. That is my point. With ME2, you are resurrected because you killed a Reaper and bested the top spectre the Council had. Again, badassery, not specifically a special power acquired that made you more. Shepard is the only one that can stop the Reapers because of their skill and leadership abilities, that put fear in billion years old machines. As the Illusive Man states: "You're unique. Not just in ability or what you experienced, but in what you represent. You stood for humanity at a key moment. You're more than a soldier, you're a symbol. And I don't know if the Reapers understand fear, but you killed one, they have to respect that."
|
|
The Elder King
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 19631
Posts: 6,370 Likes: 8,285
inherit
104
0
Nov 25, 2024 21:13:35 GMT
8,285
The Elder King
6,370
August 2016
theelderking
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
19631
|
Post by The Elder King on Feb 24, 2017 15:55:05 GMT
We still don't know if we become Pathfinder for that. We know that's the reason why the archon hunts us. As on Shepard, while you're right on the Spectre status, Shepard still is special because he's the only one that can hunt Saren, or so is stated, because of the visions. And even if you don't consider that, ME2 certifies that with his death and rebirth, which happens because he's the only one that can stop the Reapers. As I said. As for Shepard, it wasn't mentioned or implied anywhere that he/she was the only one that could interact with the beacons, or the only one apt to hunt Saren because of it, in fact, both Feros and Noveria you had previous reports of Saren and associates having business there, Virmire you had a report from STG, and they needed Liara to interpret the visions to go to Ilos later. The fact that Shepard was "special", as all of our protagonists ended up becoming, is for badassery alone, not just because of some power you acquire earlier (although that may or may not help later, extending your natural abilities). That's why they were charged for hunting Saren. Imagine if Conrad Verner acquired the prothean visions instead, Shepard would merely interpret them from him and be the hero of the story anyway. That is my point. With ME2, you are resurrected because you killed a Reaper and bested the top spectre the Council had. Again, badassery, not a special power acquired that made you more. Shepard is the only one that can stop the Reapers because of their skill and leadership abilities, that put fear in billion years old machines. As the Illusive Man states: "You're unique. Not just in ability or what you experienced, but in what you represent. You stood for humanity at a key moment. You're more than a soldier, you're a symbol. And I don't know if the Reapers understand fear, but you killed one, they have to respect that." I might agree on ME (not completely, but you did earn your status) but not on ME2. The accomplishments Shepard made in ME don't justify at all resurrecting him/her, as if other people might not stop them. And many characters do mention this uniqueness of Shepard, in his personality/character, that lead people to follow him. It's not because of his accomplishments, it's just because he's special.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
2540
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 16:04:25 GMT
As I said. As for Shepard, it wasn't mentioned or implied anywhere that he/she was the only one that could interact with the beacons, or the only one apt to hunt Saren because of it, in fact, both Feros and Noveria you had previous reports of Saren and associates having business there, Virmire you had a report from STG, and they needed Liara to interpret the visions to go to Ilos later. The fact that Shepard was "special", as all of our protagonists ended up becoming, is for badassery alone, not just because of some power you acquire earlier (although that may or may not help later, extending your natural abilities). That's why they were charged for hunting Saren. Imagine if Conrad Verner acquired the prothean visions instead, Shepard would merely interpret them from him and be the hero of the story anyway. That is my point. With ME2, you are resurrected because you killed a Reaper and bested the top spectre the Council had. Again, badassery, not a special power acquired that made you more. Shepard is the only one that can stop the Reapers because of their skill and leadership abilities, that put fear in billion years old machines. As the Illusive Man states: "You're unique. Not just in ability or what you experienced, but in what you represent. You stood for humanity at a key moment. You're more than a soldier, you're a symbol. And I don't know if the Reapers understand fear, but you killed one, they have to respect that." I might agree on ME (not completely, but you did earn your status) but not on ME2. The accomplishments Shepard made in ME don't justify at all resurrecting him/her, as if other people might not stop them. And many characters do mention this uniqueness of Shepard, in his personality/character, that lead people to follow him. It's not because of his accomplishments, it's just because he's special. On the underlined part: Then you're going against the lore, because characters specifically mention this several times on ME2 and ME3 that Shepard was resurrected, for it. How don't your accomplishments justify resurrecting you? Hell, I just quoted what the Illusive Man says to him/her the moment you meet him when you ask why he brought you back! On the bold part: And yes, I'm saying exactly what you're stating, the ability to influence people to follow them is part of their own badassery, not an alien power or vision. They are special, unique, because they are skilled (and that means much more than fighting ability), it's just not some supernatural power.
|
|
The Elder King
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 19631
Posts: 6,370 Likes: 8,285
inherit
104
0
Nov 25, 2024 21:13:35 GMT
8,285
The Elder King
6,370
August 2016
theelderking
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
19631
|
Post by The Elder King on Feb 24, 2017 16:18:47 GMT
I might agree on ME (not completely, but you did earn your status) but not on ME2. The accomplishments Shepard made in ME don't justify at all resurrecting him/her, as if other people might not stop them. And many characters do mention this uniqueness of Shepard, in his personality/character, that lead people to follow him. It's not because of his accomplishments, it's just because he's special. On the underlined part: Then you're going against the lore, because characters specifically mention this several times on ME2 and ME3 that Shepard was resurrected, for it. How don't your accomplishments justify resurrecting you? Hell, I just quoted what the Illusive Man says to him/her the moment you meet him when you ask why he brought you back! On the bold part: And yes, I'm saying exactly what you're stating, the ability to influence people to follow them is part of their own badassery, not an alien power or vision. They are special, unique, because they are skilled (and that means much more than fighting ability), it's just not some supernatural power. I meant that the accomplishments made doesn't justify what Cerberus did, not that Cerberus did it for other reason. While they did it because of Shepard's actions, it's stupid to spend so many resources on a single man, no matter what he did. It's the start of Shepard becoming space Jesus. It might not be magical, but it's still not a sign of skill. It's just the classic 'Chosen One' specialness Bioware main characters often have. Is it better then being special because of magical abilities? Yes. It's still not good overall.
|
|