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Post by melbella on Mar 7, 2017 4:41:40 GMT
Oh man, I don't think I've been ninja'd by both of them (well, all 3 it sounds like now ) in a single game. No idea what could have caused that mix-up. I wonder how that's going to import?
You've played ME2 so this isn't a spoiler - whoever you pick as your romance is the one Shepard tells to get to the escape pods. If you don't have a romance active then it defaults to Liara.
I forget - do you have Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC? Liara romance is better with that. Otherwise you see her about as much as you do the one on Horizon in ME2.
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Post by dragontartare on Mar 7, 2017 4:47:49 GMT
Oh man, I don't think I've been ninja'd by both of them (well, all 3 it sounds like now ) in a single game. No idea what could have caused that mix-up. I wonder how that's going to import?
You've played ME2 so this isn't a spoiler - whoever you pick as your romance is the one Shepard tells to get to the escape pods. If you don't have a romance active then it defaults to Liara.
I forget - do you have Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC? Liara romance is better with that. Otherwise you see her about as much as you do the one on Horizon in ME2. I don't have it yet. I was thinking of getting it for when I romance Liara for real. This next time through ME2 and ME3 will be to fix what I didn't like my first time through, so Shepard is going back to Garrus. She's still the same Shepard, too. I'll have to create a very different one for Liara, otherwise it'll be like I'm "cheating" on Garrus I talked to Kaidan and Ashley after "breaking up" with Liara. I got nothing romantic from Ashley as far as I could tell, and Kaidan told me he hopes it'll work out with me and Liara, so maybe I didn't actually break up? It'll just be a surprise! Yippee!
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Mar 7, 2017 7:47:55 GMT
I played around with the dialogue a lot, so I guess that's why I never had any "accidental" romance issues that seems to be a big problem for a lot of people? Other than the bug, that is... But it's probably the better call to go with Liara over Kaidan, that way there's no awkward weirdness with him later on. Liara, on the other hand, well... not much of a real difference there I guess either way. Does anybody know if/when you can turn her away at some point, does that "end" the romance or would it still import? You've played ME2 so this isn't a spoiler - whoever you pick as your romance is the one Shepard tells to get to the escape pods. If you don't have a romance active then it defaults to Liara. That was my understanding too, but it might not be true. In my last playthrough with a single mShep Kaidan was always the one at the beginning of ME2, not Liara. I don't think it's a bug, so maybe the game just realized that Kaidan and my Shepard were meant to be together. (I might have... also... brought Kaidan with me... everywhere in ME1. For science. :ulikeit: Could that have any effect?) In any case, I think it makes more sense to see Kaidan/Ashley at the beginning of 2 than Liara if there was no romance.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 9:25:22 GMT
I played around with the dialogue a lot, so I guess that's why I never had any "accidental" romance issues that seems to be a big problem for a lot of people? Other than the bug, that is... But it's probably the better call to go with Liara over Kaidan, that way there's no awkward weirdness with him later on. Liara, on the other hand, well... not much of a real difference there I guess either way. Does anybody know if/when you can turn her away at some point, does that "end" the romance or would it still import? You've played ME2 so this isn't a spoiler - whoever you pick as your romance is the one Shepard tells to get to the escape pods. If you don't have a romance active then it defaults to Liara. That was my understanding too, but it might not be true. In my last playthrough with a single mShep Kaidan was always the one at the beginning of ME2, not Liara. I don't think it's a bug, so maybe the game just realized that Kaidan and my Shepard were meant to be together. (I might have... also... brought Kaidan with me... everywhere in ME1. For science. :ulikeit: Could that have any effect?) In any case, I think it makes more sense to see Kaidan/Ashley at the beginning of 2 than Liara if there was no romance. Liara is next to impossible to turn away once you select her over either Kaidan or Ashley during the argument.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 7, 2017 12:22:31 GMT
You've played ME2 so this isn't a spoiler - whoever you pick as your romance is the one Shepard tells to get to the escape pods. Unfortunately that doesn't happen if the player has a ps3. I romanced Ashley and it was the asari my Shepard told to get to the escape pod yep
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Post by dragontartare on Mar 7, 2017 14:01:38 GMT
Interesting. So telling her that I understand her hesitation and having her respond that we should maybe wait until this is all over isn't a breakup? So Liara is going to lose her virginity to a Shepard who isn't going to be staying with her. I feel so dirty I guess I can headcannon that some time between the two games, they just decided it wasn't working out. But Liara stays smitten anyway because she has a permanent crush on every Shepard. I will need to actually romance her for real once I fix "Laura's" world state in order to assuage my guilt Is there any significant difference between a Liara romance with a female vs. male Shepard? Also completely changing topics, does having Wrex alive this time mean I won't get to have Grunt at my party in 3? Because I like Grunt better, but I don't want Wreav leading the krogan again.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 14:43:19 GMT
Interesting. So telling her that I understand her hesitation and having her respond that we should maybe wait until this is all over isn't a breakup? So Liara is going to lose her virginity to a Shepard who isn't going to be staying with her. I feel so dirty I guess I can headcannon that some time between the two games, they just decided it wasn't working out. But Liara stays smitten anyway because she has a permanent crush on every Shepard. I will need to actually romance her for real once I fix "Laura's" world state in order to assuage my guilt Is there any significant difference between a Liara romance with a female vs. male Shepard? Also completely changing topics, does having Wrex alive this time mean I won't get to have Grunt at my party in 3? Because I like Grunt better, but I don't want Wreav leading the krogan again. Correct... you haven't broken up with her. Also, keep in mind that people can change their minds about waiting when the "end of the world as we know it" is in sight. ME2 - I recommend you Play LotSB (Lair of the Shadow Broker) DLC, after you commit to your ME2 romance. IMO, it's actually one of the better done "cheating" scenarios in this game. If you play it a very specific way... you won't have to head canon anything. If you really don't want to cheat, then the option also exists to play LotSB before committing to your ME2 LI and cooling the relationship with Liara at that time for other reasons. As far as I know, there is no significant differences in the actual romance. Dialogue does change, particularly since MaleShep can "fling" cheat on her with more people generally than FemShep can, and MaleShep does not have an unavoidable LI death scenario (i.e. cannot romance Thane). No, Wrex will be on Tuchanka as leader of Clan Urdnot; and if you do ask him to join you, he will refuse (nicely refuse - you are good friends). His leadership style is much, much different than Wreav's (and this may influence what you do about the genophage... and that may influence what ultimately happens between you and Wrex in ME3). Also, there are different factors that determine whether or not Grunt survives on Utuku in ME3. However, if they both survive in ME3, both will be at your Citadel DLC party.
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Post by dragontartare on Mar 7, 2017 17:18:33 GMT
Interesting. So telling her that I understand her hesitation and having her respond that we should maybe wait until this is all over isn't a breakup? So Liara is going to lose her virginity to a Shepard who isn't going to be staying with her. I feel so dirty I guess I can headcannon that some time between the two games, they just decided it wasn't working out. But Liara stays smitten anyway because she has a permanent crush on every Shepard. I will need to actually romance her for real once I fix "Laura's" world state in order to assuage my guilt Is there any significant difference between a Liara romance with a female vs. male Shepard? Also completely changing topics, does having Wrex alive this time mean I won't get to have Grunt at my party in 3? Because I like Grunt better, but I don't want Wreav leading the krogan again. Correct... you haven't broken up with her. Also, keep in mind that people can change their minds about waiting when the "end of the world as we know it" is in sight. ME2 - I recommend you Play LotSB (Lair of the Shadow Broker) DLC, after you commit to your ME2 romance. IMO, it's actually one of the better done "cheating" scenarios in this game. If you play it a very specific way... you won't have to head canon anything. If you really don't want to cheat, then the option also exists to play LotSB before committing to your ME2 LI and cooling the relationship with Liara at that time for other reasons. As far as I know, there is no significant differences in the actual romance. Dialogue does change, particularly since MaleShep can "fling" cheat on her with more people generally than FemShep can, and MaleShep does not have an unavoidable LI death scenario (i.e. cannot romance Thane). No, Wrex will be on Tuchanka as leader of Clan Urdnot; and if you do ask him to join you, he will refuse (nicely refuse - you are good friends). His leadership style is much, much different than Wreav's (and this may influence what you do about the genophage... and that may influence what ultimately happens between you and Wrex in ME3). Also, there are different factors that determine whether or not Grunt survives on Utuku in ME3. However, if they both survive in ME3, both will be at your Citadel DLC party. Hmm...So when I choose Garrus in 2, the game will treat this as cheating on Liara even though she isn't in the vanilla game for 2? I know in 3, I had to reaffirm that I was still interested in Garrus; the game didn't seem to make assumptions about that. If the game is going to act like I'm cheating, then I may take your advice about Shadow Broker so I can avoid the cheating scenario. Is it fairly obvious how to cool the relationship with Liara in the DLC? This Shepard has turned out to be almost pure Paragon, so cheating would not be in character for her (but breaking up and picking someone else would be fine).
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 7, 2017 17:54:38 GMT
Dammit, I can't choose. I feel bad for both of them, especially because I know that Garrus is going to win in ME2 no matter who I choose now. Why did you both have to ninjamance me, huh? Why? Actually, it would be interesting to do the romance and see if you still feel the same way about needing it to be Garrus in ME2. Mind you, I always choose Kaidan, so I get it, but my choices are far fewer than yours, particularly across three games.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 7, 2017 17:56:34 GMT
Hmm...So when I choose Garrus in 2, the game will treat this as cheating on Liara even though she isn't in the vanilla game for 2? I know in 3, I had to reaffirm that I was still interested in Garrus; the game didn't seem to make assumptions about that. Play Lair of the Shadow Broker and choose not to continue things with Liara. Then there will be no cheating involved.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 18:08:33 GMT
Correct... you haven't broken up with her. Also, keep in mind that people can change their minds about waiting when the "end of the world as we know it" is in sight. ME2 - I recommend you Play LotSB (Lair of the Shadow Broker) DLC, after you commit to your ME2 romance. IMO, it's actually one of the better done "cheating" scenarios in this game. If you play it a very specific way... you won't have to head canon anything. If you really don't want to cheat, then the option also exists to play LotSB before committing to your ME2 LI and cooling the relationship with Liara at that time for other reasons. As far as I know, there is no significant differences in the actual romance. Dialogue does change, particularly since MaleShep can "fling" cheat on her with more people generally than FemShep can, and MaleShep does not have an unavoidable LI death scenario (i.e. cannot romance Thane). No, Wrex will be on Tuchanka as leader of Clan Urdnot; and if you do ask him to join you, he will refuse (nicely refuse - you are good friends). His leadership style is much, much different than Wreav's (and this may influence what you do about the genophage... and that may influence what ultimately happens between you and Wrex in ME3). Also, there are different factors that determine whether or not Grunt survives on Utuku in ME3. However, if they both survive in ME3, both will be at your Citadel DLC party. Hmm...So when I choose Garrus in 2, the game will treat this as cheating on Liara even though she isn't in the vanilla game for 2? I know in 3, I had to reaffirm that I was still interested in Garrus; the game didn't seem to make assumptions about that. If the game is going to act like I'm cheating, then I may take your advice about Shadow Broker so I can avoid the cheating scenario. Is it fairly obvious how to cool the relationship with Liara in the DLC? This Shepard has turned out to be almost pure Paragon, so cheating would not be in character for her (but breaking up and picking someone else would be fine). Depends on when you do LotSB... If you do it before you commit to Garrus... LotSB offers an opportunity in a conversation near the end of it to suggest you officially become "just friends" (In fact, this specific situation can be the line mentioned by Liara when you meet her on the Citadel in ME3.) It can be somewhat the result of an argument or it can be more like a mutual agreement for the greater benefit (i.e. she intends to become the Shadow Broker, after all). Which way it goes depends on the conversation options you select and what you do (i.e. whether or not you use certain interrupts) during earlier conversations within LotSB.
If you miss that opportunity, then there is a second opportunity to break up after you invite Liara to have drinks on board the ship.
If you decide to do LotSB after you commit to Garrus... Your cheating will only be mentioned specifically within LotSB. The dialogue in your cabin will change depending on whether or not you break up with Garrus between doing the LotSB mission and inviting Liara to the cabin. If you do break it off with the ME2 LI between those two events, you can repair your relationship with Liara at that point.
Otherwise it's sort of basically ignored in the vanilla game. She will, however, mention the fact that you and Garrus became close at the beginning of ME3, and will ask about whether you're willing to continue on in a relationship with her. Telling her yes at that point does not lock you out of renewing your relationship with Garrus nor does it lock you into a relationship with Liara. If, however, you tell Liara at that point that you are unwilling to continue on in a relations, you will be locked out of the romance path with her at that point. That is, her meeting on the Citadel will not offer the "or more than friends" dialogue option and there will not be any "lovey dovey" talk within your regular conversations on Normandy in ME3. There is some "lovey dovey" talk if you're in a relationship with her.
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Post by dragontartare on Mar 7, 2017 18:13:08 GMT
Dammit, I can't choose. I feel bad for both of them, especially because I know that Garrus is going to win in ME2 no matter who I choose now. Why did you both have to ninjamance me, huh? Why? Actually, it would be interesting to do the romance and see if you still feel the same way about needing it to be Garrus in ME2. Mind you, I always choose Kaidan, so I get it, but my choices are far fewer than yours, particularly across three games. Yes, it will still be Garrus, because this is the same Shepard that I already played 2 and 3 with. I am just fixing up her world state. Liara will get her own Shepard in a new PT later.
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Post by dragontartare on Mar 7, 2017 18:20:07 GMT
Hmm...So when I choose Garrus in 2, the game will treat this as cheating on Liara even though she isn't in the vanilla game for 2? I know in 3, I had to reaffirm that I was still interested in Garrus; the game didn't seem to make assumptions about that. If the game is going to act like I'm cheating, then I may take your advice about Shadow Broker so I can avoid the cheating scenario. Is it fairly obvious how to cool the relationship with Liara in the DLC? This Shepard has turned out to be almost pure Paragon, so cheating would not be in character for her (but breaking up and picking someone else would be fine). Depends on when you do LotSB... If you do it before you commit to Garrus... LotSB offers an opportunity in a conversation near the end of it to suggest you officially become "just friends" (In fact, this specific situation can be the line mentioned by Liara when you meet her on the Citadel in ME3.) It can be somewhat the result of an argument or it can be more like a mutual agreement for the greater benefit (i.e. she intends to become the Shadow Broker, after all). Which way it goes depends on the conversation options you select and what you do (i.e. whether or not you use certain interrupts) during earlier conversations within LotSB.
If you miss that opportunity, then there is a second opportunity to break up after you invite Liara to have drinks on board the ship.
At least I have options. It's too bad one of those options isn't a save editor to erase the ninjamance in the first place I don't really look forward to hurting her. (Or can I start 2, then open the save in the ME2 save editor to erase the romance, then continue playing? I don't actually know how the save editor works.) I still haven't gone to Virmire in this game, so I have some time to think about it.
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Mar 7, 2017 18:22:00 GMT
Liara is next to impossible to turn away once you select her over either Kaidan or Ashley during the argument. Not even later? I know when ME1 romances get locked they're harder to break than the rest of the series, but there is one point where you can turn them away, I just don't know if it "ends" the romance or not. Or does this not come up with Liara, with or without the confrontation? It has been a long time since I've romanced her, and the one time I got stuck with her I loaded an earlier save to avoid it, so I don't know otherwise.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 18:27:24 GMT
Depends on when you do LotSB... If you do it before you commit to Garrus... LotSB offers an opportunity in a conversation near the end of it to suggest you officially become "just friends" (In fact, this specific situation can be the line mentioned by Liara when you meet her on the Citadel in ME3.) It can be somewhat the result of an argument or it can be more like a mutual agreement for the greater benefit (i.e. she intends to become the Shadow Broker, after all). Which way it goes depends on the conversation options you select and what you do (i.e. whether or not you use certain interrupts) during earlier conversations within LotSB.
If you miss that opportunity, then there is a second opportunity to break up after you invite Liara to have drinks on board the ship.
At least I have options. It's too bad one of those options isn't a save editor to erase the ninjamance in the first place I don't really look forward to hurting her. (Or can I start 2, then open the save in the ME2 save editor to erase the romance, then continue playing? I don't actually know how the save editor works.) I still haven't gone to Virmire in this game, so I have some time to think about it. One way around the ninja-mance is to go back to a save before the argument and choose Kaidan... then unfortunately arrange to have Kaidan die on Virmire. I know also that it is readily possible to piss Ashley off before the romance scene and not have it culminate in a love scene... but I've been told this doesn't actually undo the romance flag in the game... probably because the "closeness" has some sort of effect on Ashley's attitude towards you in ME3... that may alter whether or not you have to shoot her, etc. I don't know if you can similarly piss off Kaidan.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 18:30:32 GMT
Liara is next to impossible to turn away once you select her over either Kaidan or Ashley during the argument. Not even later? I know when ME1 romances get locked they're harder to break than the rest of the series, but there is one point where you can turn them away, I just don't know if it "ends" the romance or not. Or does this not come up with Liara, with or without the confrontation? It has been a long time since I've romanced her, and the one time I got stuck with her I loaded an earlier save to avoid it, so I don't know otherwise. I've used renegade dialogue with Liara in ME1 just before the love scene and not been able to turn her away. I've also tried to piss her off at the lockers with a lot of renegade dialogue... so far without success. I have managed to turn Ashley away and to piss her off at the lockers such that she did not come to the cabin at all; but if the opportunity to do the same with Liara exists... I haven't found it yet. Some of it might depend on the players P/R scores or relative "balance" of them. Don't know.
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Post by Darth Dennis on Mar 7, 2017 20:21:41 GMT
Not even later? I know when ME1 romances get locked they're harder to break than the rest of the series, but there is one point where you can turn them away, I just don't know if it "ends" the romance or not. Or does this not come up with Liara, with or without the confrontation? It has been a long time since I've romanced her, and the one time I got stuck with her I loaded an earlier save to avoid it, so I don't know otherwise. I've used renegade dialogue with Liara in ME1 just before the love scene and not been able to turn her away. I've also tried to piss her off at the lockers with a lot of renegade dialogue... so far without success. I have managed to turn Ashley away and to piss her off at the lockers such that she did not come to the cabin at all; but if the opportunity to do the same with Liara exists... I haven't found it yet. Some of it might depend on the players P/R scores or relative "balance" of them. Don't know. I don't know why you couldn't turn away Liara before the final scene. I remember choosing a 'What? Now?' sort of line, and she went away. Maybe it was a neutral option that got rid of her - it would be just like Bioware to do something counter-intuitive like that.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 20:28:17 GMT
I've used renegade dialogue with Liara in ME1 just before the love scene and not been able to turn her away. I've also tried to piss her off at the lockers with a lot of renegade dialogue... so far without success. I have managed to turn Ashley away and to piss her off at the lockers such that she did not come to the cabin at all; but if the opportunity to do the same with Liara exists... I haven't found it yet. Some of it might depend on the players P/R scores or relative "balance" of them. Don't know. I don't know why you couldn't turn away Liara before the final scene. I remember choosing a 'What? Now?' sort of line, and she went away. Maybe it was a neutral option that got rid of her - it would be just like Bioware to do something counter-intuitive like that. Possibly. Do you know whether or not successfully turning her away at that point remove the romance flag for going forward?
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Post by melbella on Mar 7, 2017 20:41:58 GMT
I don't know why you couldn't turn away Liara before the final scene. I remember choosing a 'What? Now?' sort of line, and she went away. Maybe it was a neutral option that got rid of her - it would be just like Bioware to do something counter-intuitive like that. Possibly. Do you know whether or not successfully turning her away at that point remove the romance flag for going forward? Don't know about Liara but it doesn't for Kaidan. The game (and he in 2 and 3) assumed things went on as if he'd stayed. I guess at that point you're locked in whether you like it or not.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 7, 2017 21:09:18 GMT
Possibly. Do you know whether or not successfully turning her away at that point remove the romance flag for going forward? Don't know about Liara but it doesn't for Kaidan. The game (and he in 2 and 3) assumed things went on as if he'd stayed. I guess at that point you're locked in whether you like it or not. AFAIK, it's the same for all three. You can turn them away but the romance remains flagged as positive. That makes sense IMO, just because you don't feel like hopping into bed with them before the big battle doesn't mean you break up (though I will admit, getting into the romances is a bit weird in ME1 in the first place and you might just not notice )) ). IIRC, at least for Liara, sending her away is indeed the neutral option. Wasn't that the case for all of them? Paragon is "I would like nothing better." Neutral: "Woot? You crazy? Go away!" Renegade: "Come here baby!" Paraphrased of course.
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Post by dragontartare on Mar 8, 2017 0:53:37 GMT
Ok, after reading all this and reading about the ME2 save editor, I've decided to play the remaining romance scenes in ME1 in whatever way best fits my Shepard's personality, then try to legitimately break up with Liara in Shadow Broker (playing it as early as possible in ME2). And if that doesn't work for some reason, it looks like I should be able to use the ME2 save editor mid-game to change the romance flag. I hope I'm not misunderstanding that.
How early in ME2 can I play Shadow Broker?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2017 1:18:43 GMT
Ok, after reading all this and reading about the ME2 save editor, I've decided to play the remaining romance scenes in ME1 in whatever way best fits my Shepard's personality, then try to legitimately break up with Liara in Shadow Broker (playing it as early as possible in ME2). And if that doesn't work for some reason, it looks like I should be able to use the ME2 save editor mid-game to change the romance flag. I hope I'm not misunderstanding that. How early in ME2 can I play Shadow Broker? It opens up when you go to Illium, which is right after you do Horizon. You won't be able to romance Garrus until after he gives you his loyalty mission and you actually complete it, so it's quite easy to do LotSB before then. Once on Illium, I usually do 2 missions there before doing LotSB. This enables me to get all of Liara's sidequests done before LotSB... because after doing LotSB, Liara no longer "resides" on Illium.
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Post by dragontartare on Mar 8, 2017 3:26:21 GMT
So, the Alliance sends some probes armed with nuclear warheads into turian space, and now it's my problem! Thanks, Hackett!
At least this planet has a pretty sky.
Edit: Well, shit. I'm glad I had oodles of omnigel, because I still suck at manual bypasses.
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Post by dragontartare on Mar 8, 2017 5:22:41 GMT
I've found the asari writings, found all five geth outposts, did missions for Wrex, Garrus, and Tali, and most of what I have left are UNC things that I probably won't finish. Unless I find out I've skipped something vital, I will be doing Virmire tomorrow. And...I'm actually thinking of letting Ashley live instead of Kaidan I know Ashley is racist/speciesist/whatever, but she's also more interesting than Kaidan, and I feel like my goody-two-shoes Shepard could have some interesting times with her when she reappears in ME3. I don't know. I'll think about it, and my decision may even change when I'm in the middle of things tomorrow, depending on the actual context of the decision. I hope it's not something too blatant like the "Here Lies the Abyss" decision in DAI, when you're clearly sending one person to their death. But maybe it'll be exactly like that. Feel free to leave your non-spoilery opinions on which one should live, if you like
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Post by melbella on Mar 8, 2017 5:29:22 GMT
Opinion only - Kaidan's content is better than Ashley's in ME3.
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