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Post by Ocelot on Feb 27, 2017 10:17:39 GMT
As someone who had no problem whatsoever with the DA I approval system this is a rather curious decision. It just feels cheep whenever you put a 'bar' to how much someone likes or dislikes you and then especially how you can do artificial things to improve or detract from that bar. DA:I had a bar too. Its just invisible. The maximum affection you could get with a companion was a 125 points. Slightly approves gave 1 point, Approves gave 5 points and Greatly Approves gave 20 points. All they did was making it annoying to track where you stood with a companion. They should have kept the ME system if they wanted to make it feel more "real".
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 27, 2017 10:36:51 GMT
I don't see how ME's system felt more real, since companion reactivity was pretty much nonexistent unless that companion was about to get killed as a result of their disagreement with a decision, which happens like…..3 times potentially in the entire series.
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Rico01
N2
Master of low standards
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
Posts: 198 Likes: 170
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Master of low standards
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Post by Rico01 on Feb 27, 2017 10:41:34 GMT
I think this has both pros and cons. The more I think about it the more I dislike it. While I can understand the positives putting a number on relationships makes it too artificial for my taste. Such a system feels easily manipulated as well. I'd prefer a hidden system where I have to guess and become amazed, just like real life.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 10:50:39 GMT
I do understand what people are saying about the approval system in DAI, however, I think it worked like they intended, because you got the impressions from your conversations with them rather than looking at stats. I was very surpried, when it turned out that Vivienne and Sara still liked me, but the system seemed to make the relationships occur more naturally.
One thing I can't help wonder about if the system in MEA is going to work like in SWTOR. It basically just says as a sidenote "You have begun a relationship with Lana", and then it tracks things like "Lana appreciated your trust in this situation", which is a way to keep track of your choices and how they affected the ones around you.
I also wonder if it will only accur ones a relationship is established or if it will be a gradually thing. For example "Liam thinks you are hilarious and would like to spend some more time together", "Kallo seems nervous around you since flirting with him, but is still very pleased when you come by for a chat," or "Vetra continues to give you cold stares - you might want to keep your distance,"
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ryerye17
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Biotic God
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
XBL Gamertag: UnrealSteak2197
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Post by ryerye17 on Feb 27, 2017 11:23:49 GMT
I don't understand. Inquisition had a number system -- it was just hidden. And instead of saying Cassandra + 5, it was Cassandra approves.
There was still a hidden approval bar, whose value goes up and down.
It is a lot more useful to have one now, rather than having a piece of paper to manually count each time it moves.
If you don't like seeing an approval bar...hey gee willikers, I wonder if you can just ignore it?
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Legion Rebuilt
An interesting update has occurred. More data must be accumulated...
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Post by lightdrago3 on Feb 27, 2017 11:28:57 GMT
Thank god, someway to track my relationship. I don't like gusessing, and since I'm playing on console, I want be able to check the values. This is some good piece of info.
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Post by ProbeAway on Feb 27, 2017 11:31:09 GMT
As someone who had no problem whatsoever with the DA I approval system this is a rather curious decision. It just feels cheep whenever you put a 'bar' to how much someone likes or dislikes you and then especially how you can do artificial things to improve or detract from that bar. I get that, but IRL it's much easier to get a feel for how much a person likes you or approves of the things you say and do. In game you just don't get the same cues. I appreciate Bioware's efforts to make the approval system more organic by making the approval stats invisible. However in the end I just found my choices about who to take where and what to say at certain points were being influenced by the desire to not lock any character content off through disapproval. I suppose if there was no risk of losing companions it would have been less of an issue. I look at it a bit like a health bar. That's another product of the fact that you need visual cues in a game to tell you that something important is changing (ie your health is getting low).
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Post by Ocelot on Feb 27, 2017 12:03:29 GMT
I don't see how ME's system felt more real, since companion reactivity was pretty much nonexistent unless that companion was about to get killed as a result of their disagreement with a decision, which happens like…..3 times potentially in the entire series. Hence why I quoted "Real". Both systems are flawed. Its always going to feel artificial in a way. But atleast this way I can keep track of things, instead of wasting my time having to redo the entire playthrough because I screwed up with a companion.
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Post by davkar on Feb 27, 2017 12:22:26 GMT
My issue with the DAI system was the gifting. They 'removed' it because it's easy in DAO/2, yet it was still there. Blackwall was beeping constantly for some reason (some empress died or something ) then I took him to warden souvenir hunt and he was super friendly. I think a TT type 'Clementine will remember that' system would fit the BW games. I want breaking/difficult to fix points in the main story, relationships. Say we sacrifice half the asari arc then I expect PB to be at least a little bit pissed. Not a *shrug* "you killed my people, but our date is still on ".
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 13:55:38 GMT
As someone who had no problem whatsoever with the DA I approval system this is a rather curious decision. It just feels cheep whenever you put a 'bar' to how much someone likes or dislikes you and then especially how you can do artificial things to improve or detract from that bar. It sounds like they're planning a section of the Codex called "The Journey So Far" that will include this relationship meter/bar. I don't think it will be something you'll see unless you go looking for it. For myself, who often breaks from playing a game midway for a period of time, it will be a great place to find reminders of what I've been doing from a roleplay perspective in that game. For the MET, I resorted to keeping notes regarding what dialogue choices I had made in order to help me keep my PC in character over an intermittent playthrough that would sometimes take me several months to complete. To be able to call up a Codex that will tell me what I've done so far and how my PC is relating to certain others in the game will be a tremendous help to me. I suspect it will feel "more organic" than the continual making of notes that I (and others, I suspect) do currently. Whether or not it becomes a source that encourages the artificially manipulation of the course of the game is really up to the individual player... It is a single-player game after all. Players who don't want to use it for anything, I'm sure, will be able to just not look at it... just like some players don't read the codex at all now.
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Post by sgtreed24 on Feb 27, 2017 13:56:44 GMT
Well that's nice. I'm kind of hoping we'll also have some way to know when a specific squad member has new dialogue. I would be down for this. It does take some of the discovery away... but it's rather annoying going down a level on the normandy to talk to Garrus and all he says is, "Can it wait for a bit? I'm in the middle of some calibrations." Then says it the next two times you go there as well. Makes your Shepard like a creepy stalker or something lmao
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Post by Korra Ryder on Feb 27, 2017 14:18:02 GMT
i heard that MEA allows you to gift items to companions, that's cool. not sure exactly what details of that feature in the game. then again you're gonna end up a creeping stalker lol
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Rico01
N2
Master of low standards
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Master of low standards
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Post by Rico01 on Feb 27, 2017 14:20:40 GMT
i heard that MEA allows you to gift items to companions, that's cool. not sure exactly what details of that feature in the game. then again you're gonna end up a creeping stalker lol
NOOOOOOO!!!
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 27, 2017 14:40:07 GMT
i heard that MEA allows you to gift items to companions, that's cool. not sure exactly what details of that feature in the game. then again you're gonna end up a creeping stalker lol
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Post by rras1994 on Feb 27, 2017 14:42:17 GMT
I'm wondering if it will be like in SWTOR with the new KOTFE/KOTET expansions. It keeps track of important decision and how the character feels about them in the companion menu. You don't have a number but it does affect how a character will react further down the road like for example if you made a few decisions that a certain character agreed with before (ahem *Koth*) they will believe you if you lie to them about ahat happened in chapter 11 and he doesn't leave and remains with the alliance. I actually think that system would work quite well. There should be certain events that if you choose, it won't matter if you were nice to them, cus that would be crossing a red line for them. Like I imagine if you made a decision that would badly harm the Angaraans, should lead to a bad reaction from Jaal even if you had a good relationship before.
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Post by kingjuly on Feb 27, 2017 14:42:46 GMT
I dont really like the visible relationship bars. I know they're there to make the system easier to understand but it kinda turns relationships into a minigame rather than something natural.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 14:46:22 GMT
I dont really like the visible relationship bars. I know they're there to make the system easier to understand but it kinda turns relationships into a minigame rather than something natural. Then just don't open that part of the Codex... Out of sight, out of mind.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 27, 2017 14:49:19 GMT
I dont really like the visible relationship bars. I know they're there to make the system easier to understand but it kinda turns relationships into a minigame rather than something natural. Then just don't open that part of the Codex... Out of sight, out of mind.
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Post by kingjuly on Feb 27, 2017 14:50:14 GMT
I dont really like the visible relationship bars. I know they're there to make the system easier to understand but it kinda turns relationships into a minigame rather than something natural. Then just don't open that part of the Codex... Out of sight, out of mind. I mean I know that, obviously, it doesn't make it any less dumb though. Im not tearing the idea apart and I'll probably just end up using it like everyone else, it just seems kinda weird.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 14:54:24 GMT
Then just don't open that part of the Codex... Out of sight, out of mind. I mean I know that, obviously, it doesn't make it any less dumb though. Im not tearing the idea apart and I'll probably just end up using it like everyone else, it just seems kinda weird. How is enabling people to figure out where they left off in a game they may have not played for awhile a dumb idea?... particularly when it seems clear that they are burying the meter inside a Codex that the player can optionally open to make use of it. Just because you have no self-control doesn't mean that I shouldn't be allowed to have some in-game conveniences.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 27, 2017 14:54:50 GMT
Depends on what other information is on that page. I'll need to see it to judge how annoying this feature is going to be.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by kingjuly on Feb 27, 2017 14:58:55 GMT
I mean I know that, obviously, it doesn't make it any less dumb though. Im not tearing the idea apart and I'll probably just end up using it like everyone else, it just seems kinda weird. How is enabling people to figure out where they left off in a game they may have not played for awhile a dumb idea?... particularly when it seems clear that they are burying the meter inside a Codex that the player can optionally open to make use of it. Just because you have no self-control doesn't mean that I shouldn't be allowed to have some in-game conveniences. I mean, you didnt have to jump to insulting me immediately. Usually that takes some time. As for what you said, Its not so much that I lack self control but rather it takes away incentive to show how people feel about you by their dialogue. It should be easy to tell if someone likes you or not. Are they cold and distant? They probably dont like you. Are they happy to talk on and on, are they friendly? They probably like you. To me thats a better system then using a meter. If they manage to have both systems in game, then I wont really care that much.
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Solona Amell
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Post by Elsariel on Feb 27, 2017 14:59:22 GMT
What the hell is wrong with giving gifts to companions? Am I going to regret asking this question?
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 27, 2017 15:01:44 GMT
But atleast this way I can keep track of things, instead of wasting my time having to redo the entire playthrough because I screwed up with a companion. Well, you could simply .... not do that. Just play your character and see what happens. I suspect that wanting a meter and disliking having a meter probably correlates strongly with different fundamental approaches to RP. Come to think of it, don't you have to be playing a serious douchebag to screw up a DAI companion relationship? Part of the problem here is the companion quests, which are almost as bad as DA:O gifts.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 27, 2017 15:03:03 GMT
What the hell is wrong with giving gifts to companions? Am I going to regret asking this question? In theory, nothing, but the DA:O implementation was awful. It trivialized the entire approval mechanic.
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