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Post by nolerhn on Mar 2, 2017 18:05:36 GMT
Aside from the the person playing (even though he had a massive CD penalty with 4 weapons he could at least used the jet more), I took away more positives than negatives.
Luring Ryder into the escape pod made me chuckle, I'm looking forward to how the actual cutscens play out and if you can reprimand her for that.
The level design of that mission looks solid. Seemed to be a nice mix of verticality, cover, and paths around the battle arenas to keep it interesting.
The mix of enemies seemed nice too. Perhaps you can charge the flying drones and nova something below as you fall from charging. The party AI seemed a little wonky...but the player also didn't order them around much.
The player could have showcased a lighter build so CDs didn't take forever, or had been more mobile, but otherwise I liked what I saw.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 18:15:43 GMT
Aside from the the person playing (even though he had a massive CD penalty with 4 weapons he could at least used the jet more), I took away more positives than negatives. Luring Ryder into the escape pod made me chuckle, I'm looking forward to how the actual cutscens play out and if you can reprimand her for that. The level design of that mission looks solid. Seemed to be a nice mix of verticality, cover, and paths around the battle arenas to keep it interesting. The mix of enemies seemed nice too. Perhaps you can charge the flying drones and nova something below as you fall from charging. The party AI seemed a little wonky...but the player also didn't order them around much. The player could have showcased a lighter build so CDs didn't take forever, or had been more mobile, but otherwise I liked what I saw. 1. Agreed 2. You can Ian Frazier confirmed on twitter 3. Agreed on the level design. A great step up from the trilogy. Much more flexibility in combat. 4. Hopefully there'll be lots of diversity when it comes to enemies. 5. Yea it would have been nice to see more of the powers and combos.
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Post by Rivercurse on Mar 2, 2017 18:30:16 GMT
even though he had a massive CD penalty with 4 weapons Hmm, good point. He did. I hadn't even thought about this but I was a bit worried about how long the cooldowns were. I figured he'd just levelled them wrong but this makes much more sense now.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 2, 2017 18:50:36 GMT
People, the "translation" lore thing is something they added after the fact with Bring Down The Sky when people started pondering how it was possible everyone spoke english. I hate to say it, but you're taking it too seriously if you have that complaint becuase it's never really made into a thing at any given point in the story. It's just one of many stylized elements that BioWare just so happened to try and handwave away when they realized some fans wanted it to matter. If you wanna start there you have to go past "how can we connect socially with aliens" at all or "how do Garrus and Shepard actually fuck?" Sure saves the trouble of coming up with alien languages. Imagine the first scene with a batarian and he just keeps saying 'Baba goofinah shakakan han maboogy' on a continuous loop.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 19:14:30 GMT
Imagine the first scene with a batarian and he just keeps saying 'Baba goofinah shakakan han maboogy' on a continuous loop. Jezka, jezka de sokoo, bonimakachu. Ooo, booli rah!
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Post by BansheeOwnage on Mar 2, 2017 19:18:36 GMT
I feel bad for Sara Ryder. She always gets the brunt of the facial animation complaints, whether the complaints are valid or not. The problem is we've yet to see Scott in those same scenes, so we don't know if it's just her or just the animations. I lean towards the animations, which probably means any custom character will look about the same. But mostly I feel bad because of all the comments I've seen where people thought she was talking and it was actually Peebee, and they found Sara (but actually Peebee) very annoying In hindsight, it would have been better to have Scott in this video to avoid voice confusion.
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Post by Ocelot on Mar 2, 2017 19:19:25 GMT
People, the "translation" lore thing is something they added after the fact with Bring Down The Sky when people started pondering how it was possible everyone spoke english. I hate to say it, but you're taking it too seriously if you have that complaint becuase it's never really made into a thing at any given point in the story. It's just one of many stylized elements that BioWare just so happened to try and handwave away when they realized some fans wanted it to matter. If you wanna start there you have to go past "how can we connect socially with aliens" at all or "how do Garrus and Shepard actually fuck?" Sure saves the trouble of coming up with alien languages. Imagine the first scene with a batarian and he just keeps saying 'Baba goofinah shakakan han maboogy' on a continuous loop. That's what happend in KOTOR. Every alien that spoke Huttish had the same VA and said the exact same lines over and over again Atleast Star Wars could get away with using English as Galactic Basic tho. Shame it wouldn't really work for ME, but then I never really cared about the whole "Everyone talks english" to begin with.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 2, 2017 19:27:33 GMT
They still use the alien language loops as an excuse to add filler dialogue in SWTOR. I'm so happy they just decided all aliens should speak english for Mass Effect. I do sometimes get why they felt they were finding Mass Effect's identity more by going the route of ME2 because there were some major elements going against the harder sci-fi roots of ME1 in the very same game, but I still miss how factual it was then and how downplayed the emotional aspect was back then. I think the series has lost a lot of its subtlety.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 2, 2017 19:38:05 GMT
I feel bad for Sara Ryder. She always gets the brunt of the facial animation complaints, whether the complaints are valid or not. The problem is we've yet to see Scott in those same scenes, so we don't know if it's just her or just the animations. I lean towards the animations, which probably means any custom character will look about the same. But mostly I feel bad because of all the comments I've seen where people thought she was talking and it was actually Peebee, and they found Sara (but actually Peebee) very annoying In hindsight, it would have been better to have Scott in this video to avoid voice confusion. That's because no one cares about Scott. He was voted "Most likely to die Basic AF" in his senior year.
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Post by NRieh on Mar 2, 2017 20:12:33 GMT
You're kidding, right? Flexibility? We've got 3 skills on a bloody long CDs (one of which has the stupid 2-button binding on pads) and a brain-dead AI. ME3 allowed 1-0 hotkeys for the K+M. ( the skill wheel for the consoles). How is a 3-button setup any more 'flexibile' than that?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 20:26:34 GMT
You're kidding, right? Flexibility? We've got 3 skills on a bloody long CDs (one of which has the stupid 2-button binding on pads) and a brain-dead AI. ME3 allowed 1-0 hotkeys for the K+M. ( the skill wheel for the consoles). How is a 3-button setup any more 'flexibile' than that? I was talking about level design for combat.
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Post by MarilynRobert on Mar 2, 2017 20:49:05 GMT
I don't think I'll use Peebee unless absolutely necessary. As others have said, I couldn't tell Peebee's voice from Sara's and one of them (I'm hoping it was just Peebee) talks like she's in middle school.
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 2, 2017 21:05:18 GMT
"Too high to access" ...says the chick with the jet pack. The gameplay gimmicks are strong with this one. It gets worse when you remember that they could use their suits' ME fields to lower their mass when they jump, making it even easier to jet-pack up there. I tolerate some amount of gameplay gimmicks in my games, but at least make them seem plausible rather than "This obstacle you could get over in real life is blocking you, so fight waves and waves of enemies because we want to pad out this mission!" Speaking of which, I think there were a few too many Remnant drones to fight here. It could get tedious fast. However, I'll be patient making my final opinion in this regard because they said they turned off music to be more cinematic*, so maybe with some fight music to pump me up and superior combat skills to those shown in the video I'll find it less tedious. *Can't believe they think it would be more cinematic without music. Like... do they know why stories have soundtracks, or...? Other than that: I agree with others who have stated there is way too much hand-holding for a mission that should be well past the tutorial stage. Not ideal. And I dislike Peebee even more now. Not just her cringy banter, but the fact that she lures you into her dorm/escape pod just to jettison it onto a hostile world that she knows full well Kallo doesn't think he can retrieve you from, all for selfish reasons. What the hell?
Yes, I have a big problem with someone who so casually risks other people's lives for her own gain. If this was something she did on a mission with pretty much no danger, it could be seen as funny. But onto a freaking lava planet where even from the cutscene it doesn't look like they should have survived at all, and there's a 50% chance of landing in lava? Nope. Now, I can live with Ryder keeping a cool, level head and dealing with the present problem, I really hope there is a conversation after this mission where you can get very angry at her for doing that. Or kick her off the ship permanently, since she basically volunteered for that anyway Ugh. Wish they showed someone else's mission, but at the same time, it might be better not to since I'll likely enjoy them more. I'm disappointed we still haven't really seen much of the dialogue wheel. In fact, we've only seen it once. As for gameplay, it looked okay, but was hard to judge since I had the urge to grab a controller and take over from the demo-er the whole time Lastly, something people will probably yell at me for for being "minor", but it's completely unimmersive for me: At one point, Peebee says "Voila!" In case people are unfamiliar, that's a French word and in this context it basically means "There we go!" or "Got it!". I find this unimmersive and am once again disappointed because the devs need to remember their own lore, in this case about translators in Mass Effect. Peebee, or Garrus, or Wrex, etc. are not speaking English. They're speaking in their own languages that are then translated. So there is no instance in which we should be hearing a French word come out of Peebee's mouth, because the program would translate whatever she said in an asari language into the closest English approximation. Even if she was literally speaking French, the translator would just translate that, too. I don't actually like being this negative, but I didn't find a lot in this video to get excited about, sadly. Show us dialogue! Basically, what all that comes down to: They are cheapening their own lore/universe in favor of the "novel ideas" cooked up by sub par designers and writers... just as with DAI... exactly as I expected. Better stock up on those eye drops then, I see much eye rolling in my future.
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Post by Cyonan on Mar 2, 2017 21:17:59 GMT
Due to editing of the video we can't really glean much about the story elements of the mission other than the general premise of what we're doing. That said, some random thoughts looking at the mechanics half of the video:
The voice overs felt like it was overly holding the player's hand there. I know that Ian has said they introduced a mission specific mechanic in there which does merit teaching it to the player, but I hope the other missions don't have this amount of hand holding. Especially with the shift to a more open world, I'd like to be just let loose to figure it out on my own.
The person is carrying 3 assault rifles. From what I remember it wasn't specifically noted prior to this that you could carry multiple weapons of the same type unlike previous Mass Effect games. Overall I like this change, especially given how varied in designs their weapons have gotten since the first game.
I'm still not sure I'm sold on only being able to have 3 active abilities with 4 different presets that have a cooldown for switching between them, but i'll actually have to get my hands on the game in order to get a proper feel for how that plays out. I suspect that it might be a bit too limiting to use in the middle of a fight.
Overall I don't mind the enemy design seen here, although of course I hope that the final game features a wider variety of enemies than what's been on display in the trailers up to this point. The AI hasn't seemed terribly impressive either.
The Tactical Cloak appears to be a bit more effective than what we had in ME3. When the person uses it, the Destroyer seemed to almost immediately forget about the player.
As hesitant as I was about the change to the cover system originally it looks like an improvement overall. The dynamic "anything can be cover" setup that they're using appears to have allowed them to make more natural looking combat environments rather than a series of rooms with obvious chest high walls for cover. Predictably, the ability to switch between left and right handed also looks like it will have good use in combat to make use of right/left hand advantage on cover.
On a minor note for the trailer itself I always expect when BioWare is showing something off the person will be doing stuff just for the sake of showing it off so the person playing wont always be very good. Although this was IGN playing it, and I would have hoped that they would have picked a better player for the trailer. The guy makes note that he'll have to make use of cover and squadmates to survive and then proceeds to stand out in the open half the time and never order his squadmates to do anything.
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Post by Gray Jedi on Mar 2, 2017 21:26:31 GMT
If all the loyalty missions add new mechanics i hope there not all hand holding since it takes away from the loyalty missions and will make part of them annoying and less fun imo as for the bad player i expect nothing else from ign.
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 2, 2017 21:31:32 GMT
Also, as I kinda said before: It might be a loyalty mission and therefor designed more tightly, but I literally see nothing of this new, more open and free form encounter design... the battlefields are still littered with obvious cover, enemies still come in waves until the party is allowed to move on, the enemy groups are still mixed units of normal, fast/light and mini-boss/tough enemies. All things that - according to Mac - should no longer happen... and that's what they show the public.
Yea...
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Post by vonuber on Mar 2, 2017 21:39:38 GMT
That's because no one cares about Scott. He was voted "Most likely to die Basic AF" in his senior year. I entertained myself immensely on the old BSN by asking posters who the guy was whenever they posted pictures of sheploo. Childish, but entertaining for me.
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Post by ladiesman777 on Mar 2, 2017 21:48:11 GMT
Also, as I kinda said before: It might be a loyalty mission and therefor designed more tightly, but I literally see nothing of this new, more open and free form encounter design... the battlefields are still littered with obvious cover, enemies still come in waves until the party is allowed to move on, the enemy groups are still mixed units of normal, fast/light and mini-boss/tough enemies. All things that - according to Mac - should no longer happen... and that's what they show the public. Yea... I hope theres mission opportunities to be stealthy maybe. But yea the activate the terminal and all enemies notice and try to kill you reminds me of Destiny....
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 2, 2017 21:57:03 GMT
Also, as I kinda said before: It might be a loyalty mission and therefor designed more tightly, but I literally see nothing of this new, more open and free form encounter design... the battlefields are still littered with obvious cover, enemies still come in waves until the party is allowed to move on, the enemy groups are still mixed units of normal, fast/light and mini-boss/tough enemies. All things that - according to Mac - should no longer happen... and that's what they show the public. Yea... I hope theres mission opportunities to be stealthy maybe. But yea the activate the terminal and all enemies notice and try to kill you reminds me of Destiny.... Or, ME2-3, because - aside from the waiting for a thing doing a thing - that was literally the same loyalty mission as Mordin's... and Jacob's... and Tali's... and... you get my meaning. To be fair, I don't see that working in an open world setting, but as far as story missions go, not much seams to have changed.
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Post by Cyonan on Mar 2, 2017 21:57:40 GMT
Also, as I kinda said before: It might be a loyalty mission and therefor designed more tightly, but I literally see nothing of this new, more open and free form encounter design... the battlefields are still littered with obvious cover, enemies still come in waves until the party is allowed to move on, the enemy groups are still mixed units of normal, fast/light and mini-boss/tough enemies. All things that - according to Mac - should no longer happen... and that's what they show the public. Yea... I hope theres mission opportunities to be stealthy maybe. But yea the activate the terminal and all enemies notice and try to kill you reminds me of Destiny.... To be fair a lot of games use the "activate and defend location" thing, not just Destiny. Although with stealth I'd only really want it if there were actual good stealth mechanics in the game, which I suspect there wouldn't be. Without good stealth mechanics, I imagine that any sort of "stealthy approach" would just boil down to activating tactical cloak and running by the enemy as they can't see you. I expect stealth will mostly just be to gain an advantageous position to ambush the enemy from when starting combat.
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Post by panzerwzh on Mar 2, 2017 22:07:33 GMT
If all the loyalty missions add new mechanics i hope there not all hand holding since it takes away from the loyalty missions and will make part of them annoying and less fun imo as for the bad player i expect nothing else from ign. Eh, what new mechanics have been added into this 17 mins video excatly? Overwhelmingly irritating voice support, endless pew pew pew or the cheapen version of witcher sense? BW tends to dancing around any issue with lazy and ludicrous excuses now.
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 2, 2017 22:12:14 GMT
I hope theres mission opportunities to be stealthy maybe. But yea the activate the terminal and all enemies notice and try to kill you reminds me of Destiny.... To be fair a lot of games use the "activate and defend location" thing, not just Destiny. Although with stealth I'd only really want it if there were actual good stealth mechanics in the game, which I suspect there wouldn't be. Without good stealth mechanics, I imagine that any sort of "stealthy approach" would just boil down to activating tactical cloak and running by the enemy as they can't see you. I expect stealth will mostly just be to gain an advantageous position to ambush the enemy from when starting combat. With everything the devs promised, I kinda was expecting the much more modern approach of: There is your goal, these are your tools/options, find a way to accomplish your goal... that vid was 2005 level design in action... the latest. ...and on new mechanics: Yea, activating something - then defend/wait for that something to open the way for you is not a "new mechanic"... heck, it's not even a mechanic in general, it's called level design.
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Post by anacronian on Mar 2, 2017 22:17:19 GMT
I feel bad for Sara Ryder. She always gets the brunt of the facial animation complaints, whether the complaints are valid or not. The problem is we've yet to see Scott in those same scenes, so we don't know if it's just her or just the animations. I lean towards the animations, which probably means any custom character will look about the same. But mostly I feel bad because of all the comments I've seen where people thought she was talking and it was actually Peebee, and they found Sara (but actually Peebee) very annoying In hindsight, it would have been better to have Scott in this video to avoid voice confusion. Don't feel bad for Sara Ryder... See's A Freaking Fictional Character!!!
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Post by panzerwzh on Mar 2, 2017 22:20:19 GMT
To be fair a lot of games use the "activate and defend location" thing, not just Destiny. Although with stealth I'd only really want it if there were actual good stealth mechanics in the game, which I suspect there wouldn't be. Without good stealth mechanics, I imagine that any sort of "stealthy approach" would just boil down to activating tactical cloak and running by the enemy as they can't see you. I expect stealth will mostly just be to gain an advantageous position to ambush the enemy from when starting combat. With everything the devs promised, I kinda was expecting the much more modern approach of: There is your goal, these are your tools/options, find a way to accomplish your goal... that vid was 2005 level design in action... the latest. ...and on new mechanics: Yea, activating something - then defend/wait for that something to open the way for you is not a "new mechanic"... heck, it's not even a mechanic in general, it's called level design. Sadly a poor example for level design as well. Even Halo ODST has much interesting firefight design than the video.
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Hey Conrad, I slept with your sister.
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Post by Rivercurse on Mar 2, 2017 22:22:10 GMT
I feel bad for Sara Ryder. She always gets the brunt of the facial animation complaints, whether the complaints are valid or not. The problem is we've yet to see Scott in those same scenes, so we don't know if it's just her or just the animations. I lean towards the animations, which probably means any custom character will look about the same. But mostly I feel bad because of all the comments I've seen where people thought she was talking and it was actually Peebee, and they found Sara (but actually Peebee) very annoying In hindsight, it would have been better to have Scott in this video to avoid voice confusion. Don't feel bad for Sara Ryder... See's A Freaking Fictional Character!!! People kinda care about characters around here. I'd steer clear of the characters and romance sub forum if this is your viewpoint.
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