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Post by NRieh on Mar 3, 2017 5:43:59 GMT
You're kidding, right? Flexibility? We've got 3 skills on a bloody long CDs (one of which has the stupid 2-button binding on pads) and a brain-dead AI. ME3 allowed 1-0 hotkeys for the K+M. ( the skill wheel for the consoles). How is a 3-button setup any more 'flexibile' than that? I was talking about level design for combat. I'm not really sure you know what this word means. Could you by chance be talking about the pretty textures and and art? Because what we\ve seen is a 100% generic linear corridor\arena player vs waves shooter, littered with 'scan this thing' time-sink and autosolving 'puzzles'. I'm not going to bring in Dishonored 2 as an example of what gameplay\mission design should look like (that's top-class masterwork), but even ME1\2 had better examples. ME2 'anomaly' missions had various non-combat designs and mechanics (e.g. old shipwreck, the foggy planet, restoring the solar shield). Another example of solid mission design from ME1 - Noveria. Within 17mins we could see (depending on what moment we start from): - social stuff (3 options to leave the port I'm aware of) - MAKO - MAKO vs geth - combat vs geth - combat vs rachni - puzzles while restoring the station - more social stuff + 2 options to proceed into labs (could be more?) If you were talking about the pure combat design - no 'cover behind anything' and 'jetpack' can fix the lack of tools, skills and squad-control. That's if we talk about the single-player, of course. Because MP had always been restricted with the tiny choice of skills, and companions AI had never been the factor. So, technically it's an improvement. The thing is - not all people see ME as a casual short-session multiplayer '4 vs waves' shooter. ME3MP was fun (if we forget about the pre-EC readiness BS), but it did not cripple ME3SP into 3-button combat. And don't even get me started about the immersion and making sense! Apparently, lill' Ryders can wield&carry as many guns as they want to (unlike the N7-trained Shepard), and that AI arsenal is more advanced than Citadel spectr-shop & Cerberus armory combined...because, heeey! We're not soldiers, we're the fucking exploration& science mission! We had not even installed any guns on our not-MAKO, and our not-Normandy does not even have PDCs! Because - it's all about the exploration, you now.  |
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Post by mizzbonjovi on Mar 3, 2017 6:08:51 GMT
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a bit underwhelmed. But then I remember the time I spent with the original trilogy, and not every single second of every single mission is action packed and shit going fubar. Plus It was on Normal difficulty, and if keeping with tradition with the original trilogy Insanity will make thins look way more hectic. I do have to say it's kinda disheartening seeing people so ready to hate Andromeda. If it wasn't PeeBee's excessive commentary it would've been the lackluster gameplay, if not that then something else. Honestly, as a Mass Effect game, I think the gameplay was incredible. Also, it's good to see the companions having a lot more banter all around than having certain checkpoints you have to reach for there to be a back and forth. All in all I see an improvement from the OT, but that's just my thoughts. I do hope however future missions aren't as hand-holdy.
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Post by panzerwzh on Mar 3, 2017 6:34:27 GMT
Lmao. Dude, I could just imagine the squad bouncing all around in there. A Krogan smashing into you at that speed..ouch. Bouncing?... Everyone inside that thing should be chunky salsa. And the pod itself should have crumpled like a beer can. Mass effect dude, not logic allowed.  |
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Post by The Elder King on Mar 3, 2017 6:35:27 GMT
It's obvious the Initative asked the Saiyajins about buildings durable pods  I didn't notice it went for a second in the lava though. |
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Post by panzerwzh on Mar 3, 2017 6:56:21 GMT
Mass effect dude, not logic allowed. ... *sigh* Obviously hoping for internal consistency and technology that makes sense is a losing battle at this point. I'm just going to point out that we didn't even see the signature blue glow of kinetic fields during the impact... From the way it looks, no mass effect shenanigans were involved. The most irony part for me is that MEA is a game about finding a new home for sentient species from milky way galaxy by gunning downs hundreds if not thousands sentient species from milky way galaxy. The whole plot falling apart right from beginning... P.S. Just finsihed my 6th playthrough of HoS, damn Gaunter O'Dimm is such a wonderful philosopher “I’m no cheat. I give folk what they want, nothing more. That they often desire unworthy things – that is entirely the fault of their rotten natures.” |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 3, 2017 6:58:56 GMT
It's obvious the Initative asked the Saiyajins about buildings durable pods I didn't notice it went for a second in the lava though. It doesn't. It just goes through the steam which causes it to reflect the light of the lava beneath. |
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Post by colfoley on Mar 3, 2017 8:48:17 GMT
*sigh* Obviously hoping for internal consistency and technology that makes sense is a losing battle at this point. I'm just going to point out that we didn't even see the signature blue glow of kinetic fields during the impact... From the way it looks, no mass effect shenanigans were involved. The most irony part for me is that MEA is a game about finding a new home for sentient species from milky way galaxy by gunning downs hundreds if not thousands sentient species from milky way galaxy. The whole plot falling apart right from beginning... P.S. Just finsihed my 6th playthrough of HoS, damn Gaunter O'Dimm is such a wonderful philosopher “I’m no cheat. I give folk what they want, nothing more. That they often desire unworthy things – that is entirely the fault of their rotten natures.” Objectives and the ideal desire of a project often does not match the execution. |
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Post by Ocelot on Mar 3, 2017 11:28:25 GMT
It's obvious the Initative asked the Saiyajins about buildings durable pods I didn't notice it went for a second in the lava though. Well, the kinetic impact itself should have done the job rather thoroughly. Withstanding heat actually makes more sense assuming that the pods are intended to survive re-entry on worlds with an actual atmosphere. I'm pretty sure those things are build to withstand obstacles like those rocks. Even at that speed. If they couldn't handle crash landings like that, then what would be the point of escape pods in generals? Did people complain about the escape pod in KOTOR when it crashed into Taris? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2017 11:47:14 GMT
I was talking about level design for combat. Because what we\ve seen is a 100% generic linear corridor\arena player vs waves shooter, littered with 'scan this thing' time-sink and autosolving 'puzzles'. I'm not going to bring in Dishonored 2 as an example of what gameplay\mission design should look like (that's top-class masterwork), but even ME1\2 had better examples. ME2 'anomaly' missions had various non-combat designs and mechanics (e.g. old shipwreck, the foggy planet, restoring the solar shield). Another example of solid mission design from ME1 - Noveria. Within 17mins we could see (depending on what moment we start from): - social stuff (3 options to leave the port I'm aware of) - MAKO - MAKO vs geth - combat vs geth - combat vs rachni - puzzles while restoring the station - more social stuff + 2 options to proceed into labs (could be more?) If you were talking about the pure combat design - no 'cover behind anything' and 'jetpack' can fix the lack of tools, skills and squad-control. That's if we talk about the single-player, of course. Because MP had always been restricted with the tiny choice of skills, and companions AI had never been the factor. So, technically it's an improvement. The thing is - not all people see ME as a casual short-session multiplayer '4 vs waves' shooter. ME3MP was fun (if we forget about the pre-EC readiness BS), but it did not cripple ME3SP into 3-button combat. And don't even get me started about the immersion and making sense! Apparently, lill' Ryders can wield&carry as many guns as they want to (unlike the N7-trained Shepard), and that AI arsenal is more advanced than Citadel spectr-shop & Cerberus armory combined...because, heeey! We're not soldiers, we're the fucking exploration& science mission! We had not even installed any guns on our not-MAKO, and our not-Normandy does not even have PDCs! Because - it's all about the exploration, you now. No, I am talking about the layout/design of the battlefield. How there are several ways to go about fighting the enemy in the aspect that I can do more than just go through one or two routes in combat. I am not talking about the abilities themselves or the graphics/textures I am talking about how we can move around a bit more in the battlefield as in we can go behind buildings to sneak up on enemies and if we don't like that there are several other ways as opposed to a couple that we can go about beating our enemies. I was only complimenting how there are different ways to approach the enemy when it comes to the enviroment. Hope this makes sense. Idk how to be any clearer. |
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Post by Ocelot on Mar 3, 2017 12:32:41 GMT
I'm pretty sure those things are build to withstand obstacles like those rocks. Even at that speed. If they couldn't handle crash landings like that, then what would be the point of escape pods in generals? Did people complain about the escape pod in KOTOR when it crashed into Taris? A metallic can capable of "withstanding" the impact is one thing, making sure that the people inside survive the impact is quite another. Realistically, considering the technology of the ME universe, it should have been much easier technologically to activate a small Eezo core and some thrusters in order to slow the descent, and touch down gently. The level on inertial compensation required to nullify the impact that was shown is rather ludicrous in comparison, not to mention that there is no advantage in having your pod hit the surface like that, nor have we seen any kind of kinetic barrier activating to absorb the impact. SW technology makes no sense anyway, so I don't really see the point in the comparison. With ME, if you accept the "big lie" of Eezo, most things are at least somewhat logical, or at least could be presented (if they actually gave a damn) in a somewhat logical fashion. I suppose it wouldn't have hurt to apply some of the stuff you mentioned. Personally, I just feel like the escape pod scene is such a minor thing that complaining about it seems a bit nitpicky. Feel free to disagree with me ofcourse. |
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Post by NRieh on Mar 3, 2017 12:39:02 GMT
No, I am talking about the layout/design of the battlefield. How there are several ways to go about fighting the enemy. It's a bit more than the trilogy in the aspect that I can do more than just go through one or two routes in combat. I am not talking about the abilities themselves or the graphics/textures I am talking about how we can move around a bit more in the battlefield as in we can go behind buildings to sneak up on enemies and if we don't like that there are several other ways as opposed to a couple that we can go about beating our enemies. Hope this makes sense. Idk how to be any clearer. ЦWell...not that I've seen the difference, but I guess you're right. The shooting corridor looks slightly less artifitial now. Not seeing too many variations or tactical approaches, though. That's still same plain 'fight the wave' corridor\arena, nothing to write home about. But may be that's just me (someone who remembers Deck 16 on a Voodoo card can hardly be impressed with what we've seen so far.)  |
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Post by Pounce de León on Mar 3, 2017 12:44:41 GMT
Well, the kinetic impact itself should have done the job rather thoroughly. Withstanding heat actually makes more sense assuming that the pods are intended to survive re-entry on worlds with an actual atmosphere. I'm pretty sure those things are build to withstand obstacles like those rocks. Even at that speed. If they couldn't handle crash landings like that, then what would be the point of escape pods in generals? Did people complain about the escape pod in KOTOR when it crashed into Taris? Drop pods exist in all kinds of fictions. Usually they are received well because you can use them so nicely to announce some badassery and awesomeness when you let them crash into something and have the survivors emerge from the dust. Maybe people nowadays are just chicken and have no concept of tough characters anymore. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2017 13:30:16 GMT
I said this in the Twitter thread, but I'll bring it up here as well.
If we were to take one loyalty mission from ME2, and only show that, we shouldn't judge or assume that it is indicative of all of what the game has to offer.
Same with this one.
It isn't even the entire mission, only a small section. Judging the entire game based on that is foolish IMO.
I'll admit what was shown wasn't as impressive as compared to BioWare's recent gameplay videos, but that still has a lot to do with the awful way it was played IMO.
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Post by armass81 on Mar 3, 2017 13:36:59 GMT
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a bit underwhelmed. But then I remember the time I spent with the original trilogy, and not every single second of every single mission is action packed and shit going fubar. Plus It was on Normal difficulty, and if keeping with tradition with the original trilogy Insanity will make thins look way more hectic. I do have to say it's kinda disheartening seeing people so ready to hate Andromeda. If it wasn't PeeBee's excessive commentary it would've been the lackluster gameplay, if not that then something else. Honestly, as a Mass Effect game, I think the gameplay was incredible. Also, it's good to see the companions having a lot more banter all around than having certain checkpoints you have to reach for there to be a back and forth. All in all I see an improvement from the OT, but that's just my thoughts. I do hope however future missions aren't as hand-holdy. Some of the loyalty missions were not that great in the trilogy either. I think the worst to me are the one in ME1 where you have Garruses where its another recycled ship in space, with zombies, Wrexs thats another recycled warehouse on some barren world with the same mooks, and worst of all Talis, which had you hunting geth and destroying bases on 5 different planets(it got tedious pretty fast). From ME2 we have lets see: Thanes one, where you pretty much just have to follow some guy around in the alleys, one fuck up and youre done. Back to loading. Grunts one thats pretty much just an endurance arena with waves of enemies. Zaeeds one, pretty boring, only funny moments are Zaeed raging. So its not like loyalty missions have not been unimpressive before. They have. Now take any of those and take all the dialogues and previous context and character knowledge away, how good are they now? Exactly. And theyre like 15-30 mins of the whole game. And that bit weve seen with the Peebees, only small part without any party dialogue or context, and a horrible player. Ofc it looks shittier than it probably is. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2017 13:55:54 GMT
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a bit underwhelmed. But then I remember the time I spent with the original trilogy, and not every single second of every single mission is action packed and shit going fubar. Plus It was on Normal difficulty, and if keeping with tradition with the original trilogy Insanity will make thins look way more hectic. I do have to say it's kinda disheartening seeing people so ready to hate Andromeda. If it wasn't PeeBee's excessive commentary it would've been the lackluster gameplay, if not that then something else. Honestly, as a Mass Effect game, I think the gameplay was incredible. Also, it's good to see the companions having a lot more banter all around than having certain checkpoints you have to reach for there to be a back and forth. All in all I see an improvement from the OT, but that's just my thoughts. I do hope however future missions aren't as hand-holdy. Some of the loyalty missions were not that great in the trilogy either. I think the worst to me are the one in ME1 where you have Garruses where its another recycled ship in space, with zombies, Wrexs thats another recycled warehouse on some barren world with the same mooks, and worst of all Talis, which had you hunting geth and destroying bases on 5 different planets( it got tedious pretty fast). From ME2 we have lets see: Thanes one, where you pretty much just have to follow some guy around in the slums, one fuck up and youre done. Back to loading. Grunts one thats pretty much just an endurance arena with waves of enemies.Zaeeds one, pretty boring, only funny moments are Zaeed raging. So its not like loyalty missions have not been unimpressive before. They have. Now take any of those and take all the dialogues and previous context and character knowledge away, how good are they now? Exactly. And theyre like 15-30 mins of the whole game. And that bit weve seen with the Peebees, only small part without any party dialogue or context, and a horrible player. Ofc it looks shittier than it probably is. You just shattered my world...  |
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 3, 2017 14:21:19 GMT
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a bit underwhelmed. But then I remember the time I spent with the original trilogy, and not every single second of every single mission is action packed and shit going fubar. Plus It was on Normal difficulty, and if keeping with tradition with the original trilogy Insanity will make thins look way more hectic. I do have to say it's kinda disheartening seeing people so ready to hate Andromeda. If it wasn't PeeBee's excessive commentary it would've been the lackluster gameplay, if not that then something else. Honestly, as a Mass Effect game, I think the gameplay was incredible. Also, it's good to see the companions having a lot more banter all around than having certain checkpoints you have to reach for there to be a back and forth. All in all I see an improvement from the OT, but that's just my thoughts. I do hope however future missions aren't as hand-holdy. Some of the loyalty missions were not that great in the trilogy either. I think the worst to me are the one in ME1 where you have Garruses where its another recycled ship in space, with zombies, Wrexs thats another recycled warehouse on some barren world with the same mooks, and worst of all Talis, which had you hunting geth and destroying bases on 5 different planets(it got tedious pretty fast). From ME2 we have lets see: Thanes one, where you pretty much just have to follow some guy around in the alleys, one fuck up and youre done. Back to loading. Grunts one thats pretty much just an endurance arena with waves of enemies. Zaeeds one, pretty boring, only funny moments are Zaeed raging. So its not like loyalty missions have not been unimpressive before. They have. Now take any of those and take all the dialogues and previous context and character knowledge away, how good are they now? Exactly. And theyre like 15-30 mins of the whole game. And that bit weve seen with the Peebees, only small part without any party dialogue or context, and a horrible player. Ofc it looks shittier than it probably is. True, and BW got mocked by the press repeatedly for some of their lazy design choices... and then they came out before this game and said: We will no longer do it like that! Three weeks before launch: First comprehensive gameplay comes out and it's exactly the same blurp again... you tell me how that looks. |
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Post by armass81 on Mar 3, 2017 14:32:53 GMT
Some of the loyalty missions were not that great in the trilogy either. I think the worst to me are the one in ME1 where you have Garruses where its another recycled ship in space, with zombies, Wrexs thats another recycled warehouse on some barren world with the same mooks, and worst of all Talis, which had you hunting geth and destroying bases on 5 different planets(it got tedious pretty fast). From ME2 we have lets see: Thanes one, where you pretty much just have to follow some guy around in the alleys, one fuck up and youre done. Back to loading. Grunts one thats pretty much just an endurance arena with waves of enemies. Zaeeds one, pretty boring, only funny moments are Zaeed raging. So its not like loyalty missions have not been unimpressive before. They have. Now take any of those and take all the dialogues and previous context and character knowledge away, how good are they now? Exactly. And theyre like 15-30 mins of the whole game. And that bit weve seen with the Peebees, only small part without any party dialogue or context, and a horrible player. Ofc it looks shittier than it probably is. True, and BW got mocked by the press repeatedly for some of their lazy design choices... and then they came out before this game and said: We will no longer do it like that! Three weeks before launch: First comprehensive gameplay comes out and it's exactly the same blurp again... you tell me how that looks. Point was previous games had these, and they did not ruin the entire game, unlike some people here and on the youtube jumping to silly conclusions seem to think. One rotten apple does not kill the tree. Ofc biting that rotten apple first also is not fun and does not give you a nice impression. |
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Post by maximusarael020 on Mar 3, 2017 14:34:26 GMT
I'm pretty sure those things are build to withstand obstacles like those rocks. Even at that speed. If they couldn't handle crash landings like that, then what would be the point of escape pods in generals? Did people complain about the escape pod in KOTOR when it crashed into Taris? A metallic can capable of "withstanding" the impact is one thing, making sure that the people inside survive the impact is quite another. Realistically, considering the technology of the ME universe, it should have been much easier technologically to activate a small Eezo core and some thrusters in order to slow the descent, and touch down gently. The level on inertial compensation required to nullify the impact that was shown is rather ludicrous in comparison, not to mention that there is no advantage in having your pod hit the surface like that, nor have we seen any kind of kinetic barrier activating to absorb the impact. SW technology makes no sense anyway, so I don't really see the point in the comparison. With ME, if you accept the "big lie" of Eezo, most things are at least somewhat logical, or at least could be presented (if they actually gave a damn) in a somewhat logical fashion. Pretty sure if you have the technology to minimize the mass of something like the Destiny Ascension or the Normandy to going faster than the speed of light, you can also minimize the mass of people within a pod to cause minimal damage upon banging around the inside. Or maybe they have something more equivalent to the stasis field Liara came into contact with in the Prothean ruins in ME1? Just holds everyone in place? We know stasis tech exists because you can use it as a power in ME3 (I know it's a biotic thing, but they can replicate it with tech using eezo). |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2017 15:20:41 GMT
Pretty sure if you have the technology to minimize the mass of something like the Destiny Ascension or the Normandy to going faster than the speed of light, you can also minimize the mass of people within a pod to cause minimal damage upon banging around the inside. Or maybe they have something more equivalent to the stasis field Liara came into contact with in the Prothean ruins in ME1? Just holds everyone in place? We know stasis tech exists because you can use it as a power in ME3 (I know it's a biotic thing, but they can replicate it with tech using eezo). It's all theoretically possible with ME technology, but it's also an idiotic way to solve this problem. Instead of finding crazy ways to deal with massive kinetic impacts, you can just gradually slow the pod by activating a few thrusters and reducing the weight of the pod. Keep in mind, the pod is tiny. I doubt it can house a large enough Eezo core for something like absorbing a massive impact, it's a lifeboat not a ship. Really, it's a way of making the landing quick and "exciting." - 2 seconds of cinematic as opposed to 5 minutes watching a replay of the lunar landing on each new planet. Either way, people are going to pick it apart and complain... So what difference does it make? It's the same sort of pod landing they did in the Omega DLC. Rule of the ME1 universe - pods crash and the people inside are strapped in (at least as it was shown during the Omega DLC) and protected somehow. So, perhaps the bit where they strap themselves in has been cut from this particular video... and lot of things were cut to avoid spoilers. |
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 3, 2017 15:23:13 GMT
True, and BW got mocked by the press repeatedly for some of their lazy design choices... and then they came out before this game and said: We will no longer do it like that! Three weeks before launch: First comprehensive gameplay comes out and it's exactly the same blurp again... you tell me how that looks. Point was previous games had these, and they did not ruin the entire game, unlike some people here and on the youtube jumping to silly conclusions seem to think. One rotten apple does not kill the tree. Ofc biting that rotten apple first also is not fun and does not give you a nice impression. All I'm saying... why give us the rotten apple first? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2017 15:29:42 GMT
Point was previous games had these, and they did not ruin the entire game, unlike some people here and on the youtube jumping to silly conclusions seem to think. One rotten apple does not kill the tree. Ofc biting that rotten apple first also is not fun and does not give you a nice impression. All I'm saying... why give us the rotten apple first? Maybe a contract was struck with IGN to produce the video awhile ago with IGN promising to make a better one than they ultimately delivered. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2017 16:10:23 GMT
Really, it's a way of making the landing quick and "exciting." - 2 seconds of cinematic as opposed to 5 minutes watching a replay of the lunar landing on each new planet. Either way, people are going to pick it apart and complain... So what difference does it make? It's the same sort of pod landing they did in the Omega DLC. Rule of the ME1 universe - pods crash and the people inside are strapped in (at least as it was shown during the Omega DLC) and protected somehow. So, perhaps the bit where they strap themselves in has been cut from this particular video... and lot of things were cut to avoid spoilers. There's exciting and there's idiotic, two different things. It's also not 2 seconds Vs. 5 minutes, all they really had to show was more or less the same thing, with the pod activating thrusters and just landing rather than smashing into the ground like a giant hammer. "Either way people are going to complain" you could also say "either way people are going to defend BW because they can do no wrong".
It's just another symptom of an existing problem, the people in charge in BW don't seem to care much about immersion.Also, "strapping themselves in" in the context of this collision is just ridiculous. Have you ever been in a car crash? A light one? Imagine an impact a hundred times stronger. Hell, I would have taken ANY consideration in regards to immersion, even just a blue glow of kinetic barriers during the impact would have been better than this... Ugh. I could continue with explanations of why this makes no sense, but there's no point, is there? You don't care, and BW obviously doesn't care. Like it or lump it - that pods crash and don't land with thrusters is in the lore from the Omega DLC. I never said that now bolded part wasn't also true. So, does it make a difference. People get "immersed" by different things and in different ways. |
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Rico01
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Post by Rico01 on Mar 3, 2017 16:17:12 GMT
Not trying to take sides here but do we know exactly when and where they cut the cut-scenes in the vid? Not saying the scene will be logical or such but could we get a bigger picture of the situation if we had the entire cut-scene and conversation instead of the heavily edited IGN video?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2017 16:18:05 GMT
Like it or lump it - that pods crash and don't land with thrusters is in the lore from the Omega DLC. And that changes the idiocy of this cut-scene how exactly? Well, some people want Bioware to be married to the old lore... but I guess that depends on whether Bioware is trying to depart from it (oh, we want to stay in the MW) or trying to adhere to it (here). Some people will complain either way. (shrug). |
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Post by Cyonan on Mar 3, 2017 16:48:33 GMT
As far as the pod thing goes, I have to imagine it had a kinetic dampener on it to prevent the people inside from being knocked around.
In Mass Effect 2 we see something even as small as a shuttle going at FTL speeds which means they have to already have kinetic dampeners for a craft that small, otherwise the people inside go splat the moment you jump to FTL.
Of course I don't expect that they'll actually go over that in the game, but that's how I imagine it has to be working.
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