The Twilight God
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Post by The Twilight God on Mar 7, 2017 16:28:49 GMT
Im starting to get tilted by all the people saying that the Ai makes no sense and that the purpose for it existing is poorly thought out. I honestly don't understand why people are saying this. The purpose, at least on an official level, is for exploration and colonisation. BOTH of these were primary reasons for expeditions in Human history and will be primary reasons for us to leave Earth at some point in our far future so how the fuck does it not make sense for the Ai to exist within the ME universe? I don't understand why so many people feel as though Cerberus must be involved or that there HAS to be some ulterior motive behind Ai's existence. Believe it or not, but exploration and colonisation are good enough reasons each on their own for an expedition like this. Not everything has to be some super secret plot at universal domination. It's Reaper related or it's stupid. It's that plain and simple.
No corporation, government or private donor is going to sink billions (trillions?) into a one way trip with no financial or material returns. No investors, shareholders, etc. except maybe Asari or Krogan (ha!) could ever hope to benefit from this. But this isn't an asari thing. It's a human thing and the council hoped on board with it. This colonization effort is either in response to the Reaper threat, which coincides with its inception date, because the ME comics inform us that people knew about Reapers before Eden Prime. Or it's just a mind numbingly stupid excuse to avoid the ME3 fiasco. The thing is, the people who knew about it on the human end were of the Cerberus persuasion. Hence a presumed Cerberus connection.
In addition to no financial or material gains, what the Initiative does not claim to have discovered anything new in Andromeda. It has the same minerals that exist in the Milky Way. Why wouldn't it. It's no more exotic in Andromeda than it is in any other unexplored part of the Milky Way. So you explain to me why all these financial donors are flushing huge amounts of cash down the toilet to leave the galaxy and colonize Andromeda when clearly, if they can detect new worlds in a new galaxy they could easily detect such worlds in this galaxy, get relatively immediate returns for less expense, time, manpower, etc. It is completely absurd for the Ai to not be a Reaper contingency.
It's Reaper related or it's dumb. That's just an objective fact. And I do not mean this to be insulting, but I really see no other way to put this: You'd have to be a complete moron to think otherwise.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 16:33:32 GMT
... and you may be surprised, but not everyone on earth knew about the Apollo space program when it was first being developed... and a entire Galaxy with Billions upon Billions of people strewn across it is Earth on mega-steriods... so a project, even if it is the Apollo space program on steroids, would very likely not be known about by everyone in the galaxy. Which is why I said on steroids. Humans, asari, salarians, turians, krogan, and quarians AT LEAST cooperated on it. Even if it's purely a civilian project, this would be like major businesses from the UK, US, Russia, China and France, and several other nations all assisting Elon Musk to build a colony ship to Proxima Centauri. Would everyone on the planet be aware of it? No. But it should be common knowledge among the nations lending support. Not necessarily "common knowledge" even among the nations lending support. Lots of governments are doing things their populations are completely unaware of. We also don't have much indication yet that it is the governments of any nation lending support to this. So far, in fact, it sounds like a private venture... a bunch of very wealthy wingnuts getting together to make their dream come true. As I said, there have always been people standing on the dock when any such venture sets sale saying "you're nuts" - so count yourself among that crowd. It doesn't mean that "crazy" ventures haven't set sail before. You're already playing that role. Fine. The game venture is sailing regardless. Crazy or not... if you're going to play this game, you've joined it... and it still can be a pretty good story... even if it's a story about lunatic exploration ventures. |
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Post by SofNascimento on Mar 7, 2017 16:44:05 GMT
"the Ai makes no sense and that the purpose for it existing is poorly thought out"
That's about it, really.
They just wanted a new Mass Effect game.
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Arcian
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Post by Arcian on Mar 7, 2017 16:49:24 GMT
Im starting to get tilted by all the people saying that the Ai makes no sense and that the purpose for it existing is poorly thought out. I honestly don't understand why people are saying this. The purpose, at least on an official level, is for exploration and colonisation. BOTH of these were primary reasons for expeditions in Human history and will be primary reasons for us to leave Earth at some point in our far future so how the fuck does it not make sense for the Ai to exist within the ME universe? I don't understand why so many people feel as though Cerberus must be involved or that there HAS to be some ulterior motive behind Ai's existence. Believe it or not, but exploration and colonisation are good enough reasons each on their own for an expedition like this. Not everything has to be some super secret plot at universal domination. It's quite easy. Less than 1% of the Milky Way's stars have been explored by Citadel-affiliated species by the time the Ai leaves. It makes no fiscal or logical sense to explore another galaxy 2.5 million light years away when they haven't even explored 1% of their own galaxy. That's why people think there's an ulterior motive. They are part of the people staying behind in the Milky Way... but THIS story isn't about them. It's about the group of people who "want to leap ahead like that." That's just it, though, it ISN'T part of the people staying behind. It never was. This technology has been around for at least a decade, and nothing has been done with it, except building these massive ships bigger than dreadnoughts that apparently nobody noticed. ODSY engines would revolutionize space travel. Colonies would no longer be required to be within a couple dozen light years from a relay. You could plop down a flag virtually anywhere! The Reapers would never be able to harvest the galaxy, because people could get in a ship and ftl anywhere in the galaxy and be completely untrackable. This is phenonemal technology, almost on par with the Lazarus Project...and yet like the Lazarus Project, nobody notices or cares. Super MAC's standard mode of operation, pull stuff out of ass when convenient, then pretend like the stuff never existed after their convenience has ended. |
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Mar 7, 2017 16:53:32 GMT
Which is why I said on steroids. Humans, asari, salarians, turians, krogan, and quarians AT LEAST cooperated on it. Even if it's purely a civilian project, this would be like major businesses from the UK, US, Russia, China and France, and several other nations all assisting Elon Musk to build a colony ship to Proxima Centauri. Would everyone on the planet be aware of it? No. But it should be common knowledge among the nations lending support. Not necessarily "common knowledge" even among the nations lending support. Lots of governments are doing things their populations are completely unaware of. We also don't have much indication yet that it is the governments of any nation lending support to this. So far, in fact, it sounds like a private venture... a bunch of very wealthy wingnuts getting together to make their dream come true. As I said, there have always been people standing on the dock when any such venture sets sale saying "you're nuts" - so count yourself among that crowd. It doesn't mean that "crazy" ventures haven't set sail before. You're already playing that role. Fine. The game venture is sailing regardless. Crazy or not... if you're going to play this game, you've joined it... and it still can be a pretty good story... even if it's a story about lunatic exploration ventures. SpaceX launching unmanned supply rockets to the ISS gets covered on the evening news. How would a serious multi-national attempt to colonize another planet be covered? This isn't (just) a case of "you're nuts" this is a case of a project being so vast in scope, touching so many people, businesses, and even governments, and having so many resources poured into it, that it should have been quite well known. |
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 7, 2017 17:02:20 GMT
I don't understand why so many people feel as though Cerberus must be involved or that there HAS to be some ulterior motive behind Ai's existence. Believe it or not, but exploration and colonisation are good enough reasons each on their own for an expedition like this. Not everything has to be some super secret plot at universal dominati It's Reaper related or it's stupid. It's that plain and simple.
No corporation, government or private donor is going to sink billions (trillions?) into a one way trip with no financial or material returns. No investors, shareholders, etc. except maybe Asari or Krogan (ha!) could ever hope to benefit from this. But this isn't an asari thing. It's a human thing and the council hoped on board with it. This colonization effort is either in response to the Reaper threat, which coincides with its inception date, because the ME comics inform us that people knew about Reapers before Eden Prime. Or it's just a mind numbingly stupid excuse to avoid the ME3 fiasco. The thing is, the people who knew about it on the human end were of the Cerberus persuasion. Hence a presumed Cerberus connection.
I'll disagree slightly with this. I can see reasons for a private donor to get behind such a project. Building your own civilization beyond the reach of the Citadel has some appeal. There's plenty of SF precedent too. DuQuesne walking out of "Doc" Smith's Skylark series comes to mind; he finally realizes that conquering Earth is worthless and just goes off to another galaxy to found his own damn civilization. The difference is that DuQuesne commands the technology and resources to self-fund such a project by that point. It's hard to imagine a private person, or even a small partnership, being able to fund the AI. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 17:08:55 GMT
Im starting to get tilted by all the people saying that the Ai makes no sense and that the purpose for it existing is poorly thought out. I honestly don't understand why people are saying this. The purpose, at least on an official level, is for exploration and colonisation. BOTH of these were primary reasons for expeditions in Human history and will be primary reasons for us to leave Earth at some point in our far future so how the fuck does it not make sense for the Ai to exist within the ME universe? I don't understand why so many people feel as though Cerberus must be involved or that there HAS to be some ulterior motive behind Ai's existence. Believe it or not, but exploration and colonisation are good enough reasons each on their own for an expedition like this. Not everything has to be some super secret plot at universal domination. It's quite easy. Less than 1% of the Milky Way's stars have been explored by Citadel-affiliated species by the time the Ai leaves. It makes no fiscal or logical sense to explore another galaxy 2.5 million light years away when they haven't even explored 1% of their own galaxy. That's why people think there's an ulterior motive. That's just it, though, it ISN'T part of the people staying behind. It never was. This technology has been around for at least a decade, and nothing has been done with it, except building these massive ships bigger than dreadnoughts that apparently nobody noticed. ODSY engines would revolutionize space travel. Colonies would no longer be required to be within a couple dozen light years from a relay. You could plop down a flag virtually anywhere! The Reapers would never be able to harvest the galaxy, because people could get in a ship and ftl anywhere in the galaxy and be completely untrackable. This is phenonemal technology, almost on par with the Lazarus Project...and yet like the Lazarus Project, nobody notices or cares. Super MAC's standard mode of operation, pull stuff out of ass when convenient, then pretend like the stuff never existed after their convenience has ended. ... and the standard mode of operation for the people around here who have a clear "grudge" against "super Mac" is to tear apart every stinking little pickyune detail of a story they haven't even seen yet and whine and snivel about people calling them for the "premature complainers" they are... and this has been going on for 5 years now. Regardless, this story is taking place in Andromeda. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 17:13:44 GMT
Not necessarily "common knowledge" even among the nations lending support. Lots of governments are doing things their populations are completely unaware of. We also don't have much indication yet that it is the governments of any nation lending support to this. So far, in fact, it sounds like a private venture... a bunch of very wealthy wingnuts getting together to make their dream come true. As I said, there have always been people standing on the dock when any such venture sets sale saying "you're nuts" - so count yourself among that crowd. It doesn't mean that "crazy" ventures haven't set sail before. You're already playing that role. Fine. The game venture is sailing regardless. Crazy or not... if you're going to play this game, you've joined it... and it still can be a pretty good story... even if it's a story about lunatic exploration ventures. SpaceX launching unmanned supply rockets to the ISS gets covered on the evening news. How would a serious multi-national attempt to colonize another planet be covered? This isn't (just) a case of "you're nuts" this is a case of a project being so vast in scope, touching so many people, businesses, and even governments, and having so many resources poured into it, that it should have been quite well known. ... and was your Shepard listening to news coverage 24/7 instead of fighting the Reapers? In addition - A very common complaint by Canadians is that almost nothing that happens in Canada is covered by American news networks. Canadian visiting the US for periods of time often come hope completely unaware of huge things in Canada that have happened while they've been gone. If the news coverage of such an advanced nation of it's very friendly neighbors affairs is so bad... what makes you think the Galactic News Network should just happen to be running every single relevant news story in the galaxy as Shepard strolls buy on his/her way to a shopping kiosk on the Citadel? |
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 7, 2017 17:17:23 GMT
Does Shepard knowing about the AI change anything?
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Mar 7, 2017 17:19:55 GMT
SpaceX launching unmanned supply rockets to the ISS gets covered on the evening news. How would a serious multi-national attempt to colonize another planet be covered? This isn't (just) a case of "you're nuts" this is a case of a project being so vast in scope, touching so many people, businesses, and even governments, and having so many resources poured into it, that it should have been quite well known. ... and was your Shepard listening to news coverage 24/7 instead of fighting the Reapers? The AI started in 2176. Shepard never even heard of the Reapers until 2183. And Shep had plenty of time to catch up on the news while locked up for six months in 2185. You know, when the arks LAUNCHED! |
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Mar 7, 2017 17:21:52 GMT
Does Shepard knowing about the AI change anything? What's more important is the galaxy in general knowing about it. But Shep potentially knowing about it could have (and probably should have) affected his/her attitude towards the Reaper War. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 17:27:11 GMT
... and was your Shepard listening to news coverage 24/7 instead of fighting the Reapers? The AI started in 2176. Shepard never even heard of the Reapers until 2183. And Shep had plenty of time to catch up on the news while locked up for six months in 2185. You know, when the arks LAUNCHED! So... maybe he did know about them. Did he have a real cause to speak about it in the game... especially if it had nothing to do with escaping the Reapers? Also, even when we're playing Shepard, we're not privy to every conversation he/she has during the time span of the game. We know nothing about what Shepard did during those 6 months of confinement. I didn't see a news net terminal in his/her quarters. He/she was certainly prevented from being able to communicate with Cerberus... and he/she does clearly tell the VS that he/she has been "out of the loop" - enough to not even know about his/her (potentially) former LI's promotion. |
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 7, 2017 17:32:58 GMT
It's quite easy. Less than 1% of the Milky Way's stars have been explored by Citadel-affiliated species by the time the Ai leaves. It makes no fiscal or logical sense to explore another galaxy 2.5 million light years away when they haven't even explored 1% of their own galaxy. That's why people think there's an ulterior motive. Super MAC's standard mode of operation, pull stuff out of ass when convenient, then pretend like the stuff never existed after their convenience has ended. ... and the standard mode of operation for the people around here who have a clear "grudge" against "super Mac" is to tear apart every stinking little pickyune detail of a story they haven't even seen yet and whine and snivel about people calling them for the "premature complainers" they are... and this has been going on for 5 years now. Regardless, this story is taking place in Andromeda. Oh come on, it's not like Mac the Hack hasn't proven what an awful writer he is... numerous times. Fact is: The killed the MW as a setting for Mass Effect, but they want to continue to use it to make money, so they simply set it in a new galaxy - as a bad writing team would - and slowly populate it with everything the people liked about the original, and nothing - NOTHING - we have been show up until now is giving off a more flattering feeling as this. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 17:41:14 GMT
... and the standard mode of operation for the people around here who have a clear "grudge" against "super Mac" is to tear apart every stinking little pickyune detail of a story they haven't even seen yet and whine and snivel about people calling them for the "premature complainers" they are... and this has been going on for 5 years now. Regardless, this story is taking place in Andromeda. Oh come on, it's not like Mac the Hack hasn't proven what an awful writer he is... numerous times. Fact is: The killed the MW as a setting for Mass Effect, but they want to continue to use it to make money, so they simply set it in a new galaxy - as a bad writing team would - and slowly populate it with everything the people liked about the original, and nothing - NOTHING - we have been show up until now is giving off a more flattering feeling as this. ... am I saying in that that he's a great writer? No. Have I denied what is allegedly his "mode of operation" - No. I'm saying that people here keep complaining about details in a story that they haven't even read yet. In fact, they were complaining about these same things back 5 years ago... long before any parts of the story had been revealed. They continue to ASSUME they know what's been written, when in reality they have no way of actually knowing that. They are prejudging (and prejudicing) the story merely because they hate Mac... and, as I said in my first post, they'll just continuing to heap the hate on regardless of how Bioware might eventually explain this move... and the bottomline is still... the move is taking place. This story will take place in Andromeda, period, end of story. FIN. Mac's detractor's lost that battle years ago. So... the continued heaping of hate on the AI makes about as much sense as the initiative itself (and that's my answer to the OP's question). |
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The Twilight God
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Post by The Twilight God on Mar 7, 2017 17:47:36 GMT
It's Reaper related or it's stupid. It's that plain and simple.
No corporation, government or private donor is going to sink billions (trillions?) into a one way trip with no financial or material returns. No investors, shareholders, etc. except maybe Asari or Krogan (ha!) could ever hope to benefit from this. But this isn't an asari thing. It's a human thing and the council hoped on board with it. This colonization effort is either in response to the Reaper threat, which coincides with its inception date, because the ME comics inform us that people knew about Reapers before Eden Prime. Or it's just a mind numbingly stupid excuse to avoid the ME3 fiasco. The thing is, the people who knew about it on the human end were of the Cerberus persuasion. Hence a presumed Cerberus connection.
I'll disagree slightly with this. I can see reasons for a private donor to get behind such a project. Building your own civilization beyond the reach of the Citadel has some appeal. You mean like Terminus Space? |
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 7, 2017 17:50:31 GMT
Oh come on, it's not like Mac the Hack hasn't proven what an awful writer he is... numerous times. Fact is: The killed the MW as a setting for Mass Effect, but they want to continue to use it to make money, so they simply set it in a new galaxy - as a bad writing team would - and slowly populate it with everything the people liked about the original, and nothing - NOTHING - we have been show up until now is giving off a more flattering feeling as this. ... am I saying in that that he's a great writer? No. Have I denied what is allegedly his "mode of operation" - No. I'm saying that people here keep complaining about details in a story that they haven't even read yet. In fact, they were complaining about these same things back 5 years ago... long before any parts of the story had been revealed. They continue to ASSUME they know what's been written, when in reality they have no way of actually knowing that. They are prejudging (and prejudicing) the story merely because they hate Mac. Meh, I don't hate Mac... I don't know him. I just think the got put in a position in the franchise he shouldn't be in... and that was already the case back during ME3's development. ...and yes, pre-judging the game for what we don't know yet is useless. Judging it by what we already know, however, is sensible... and going by what we know combined with what we can pull from the trilogy, it doesn't look good for even the premise of MEA to really work. Don't get me wrong, I hope everything will be unraveled in the game... the actual reason behind the Ai above all else... but I highly doubt it. |
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Post by Iakus on Mar 7, 2017 17:51:56 GMT
The AI started in 2176. Shepard never even heard of the Reapers until 2183. And Shep had plenty of time to catch up on the news while locked up for six months in 2185. You know, when the arks LAUNCHED! So... maybe he did know about them. Did he have a real cause to speak about it in the game... especially if it had nothing to do with escaping the Reapers? Also, even when we're playing Shepard, we're not privy to every conversation he/she has during the time span of the game. We know nothing about what Shepard did during those 6 months of confinement. I didn't see a news net terminal in his/her quarters. He/she was certainly prevented from being able to communicate with Cerberus... and he/she does clearly tell the VS that he/she has been "out of the loop" - enough to not even know about his/her (potentially) former LI's promotion. ODSY engines would be handy for escaping Reapers, yes. |
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Post by laxian on Mar 7, 2017 17:56:00 GMT
Im starting to get tilted by all the people saying that the Ai makes no sense and that the purpose for it existing is poorly thought out. I honestly don't understand why people are saying this. The purpose, at least on an official level, is for exploration and colonisation. BOTH of these were primary reasons for expeditions in Human history and will be primary reasons for us to leave Earth at some point in our far future so how the fuck does it not make sense for the Ai to exist within the ME universe? I don't understand why so many people feel as though Cerberus must be involved or that there HAS to be some ulterior motive behind Ai's existence. Believe it or not, but exploration and colonisation are good enough reasons each on their own for an expedition like this. Not everything has to be some super secret plot at universal domination. Because it's not adding up - hell, the people on the A.I. (except for the leadership, the people still in cryo and the pathfinder-team) seem to agree with this! Something is fishy! For example: Why look for ressources in Andromeda (the Milkyway still has enough of those! Remember 1% or less was explored, there are still unopened relays (!)) Why is the A.I. fractured/shattered (something must be going on and I bet the leadership is trying to keep us in the dark!) greetings LAX |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 17:58:07 GMT
So... maybe he did know about them. Did he have a real cause to speak about it in the game... especially if it had nothing to do with escaping the Reapers? Also, even when we're playing Shepard, we're not privy to every conversation he/she has during the time span of the game. We know nothing about what Shepard did during those 6 months of confinement. I didn't see a news net terminal in his/her quarters. He/she was certainly prevented from being able to communicate with Cerberus... and he/she does clearly tell the VS that he/she has been "out of the loop" - enough to not even know about his/her (potentially) former LI's promotion. ODSY engines would be handy for escaping Reapers, yes. Maybe handy... but was there a definite purpose for him/her to actually have that specific conversation while on camera during the ME Trilogy? No, there wasn't. You KNOW this is a retcon... it unavoidably has to be a retcon. You can continue fight it all you want... but regardless of any explanation, genius or not, that Bioware can possibly give... it's not going to appear in the ME Trilogy. You are ultimately just wasting your time arguing that it "should be" there.. The game is going to Andromeda. The retcon is is place. Nothing will change that. |
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Post by Psychevore on Mar 7, 2017 18:03:29 GMT
We're talking about a universe in which the cooperation of virtually all intelligent species culminated into the completion AND deployment of a super weapon that could destroy an armada of giant mecha Space Cthulhus that boasted a flawless win record of galactic genocide... covertly, without the giant mecha space Cthulhus knowing.
Also the same universe wherein which one secret organisation of space racists can raise a man from death AND rebuild and improve one of the most advanced ships known in the galaxy in a flash of time
Oh.. and clone this space Jesus too. In adult form too to boot.
If the Andromeda Initiative is too much weirdness for you... then, dayumn.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 18:05:01 GMT
Oh.. and clone this space Jesus too. In adult form too to boot. wait, what? when was that? |
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Post by Psychevore on Mar 7, 2017 18:05:49 GMT
Oh.. and clone this space Jesus too. In adult form too to boot. wait, what? when was that? Citadel DLC. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 18:06:26 GMT
wait, what? when was that? Citadel DLC. oh, ok; I never got that. |
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Post by Psychevore on Mar 7, 2017 18:08:37 GMT
oh, ok; I never got that. 'The culprit behind Commander Shepard's identity theft is a rogue Cerberus-made clone of the Commander.' |
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Post by Wulfram on Mar 7, 2017 18:13:39 GMT
Its the 600 year trip that really hurts the "exploration and colonisation" justification for me. It means that the return on investment is going to be terrible even if everything works out awesomely, and it means you're chucking 100,000 civilians off into the unknown with no means of helping them
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