kastrenzo
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Post by kastrenzo on Mar 13, 2017 3:47:58 GMT
Indifferent. It's cool that it's there. But I wouldn't have been upset if it wasn't.
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Post by Typhons Bioheat on Mar 13, 2017 5:36:57 GMT
I hate and loathe profile switching. By this I don't mean that I hate the idea of switching skills within the same profile - For example, an Adept switching between their biotic sets of powers is perfectly fine with me.
However, I despise the idea that the protagonist can just change their profiles from Soldier to Vanguard to Infiltrator to Engineer on the fly just like that - Its absurd and preposterous to the extreme. You can't just change your profile from a Biotic to Tech to Combat to hybrids - Developing your skills is something that takes a long and arduous training.
All that does is result in the creation of a Gary Stu / Mary Sue characters and the destruction of the lore.
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Post by derrame on Mar 13, 2017 5:46:33 GMT
i dont understand how it works :s
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Post by Blackheart on Mar 13, 2017 7:10:55 GMT
I don't like it at all. I'm all for having more freedom to chose what powers you want (since there was always at least one power I didn't like for each class in trilogy), but this is not the way to go, this is too much. Being able to shape shift mid combat is not mass effect for me. I hope at leas, that difficulty and enemy AI are scaled appropriately for this. I would like insanity to be harder game than ME3 insanity.
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Post by Ocelot on Mar 13, 2017 7:55:06 GMT
I like it alot.
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Post by NRieh on Mar 13, 2017 8:31:01 GMT
That they can, but it means that biotics are being forced on us. Which is not good. It's like making all the Wardens and Hawkes 'talented mages with rogue&combat skills'. To me choice of class, playstyle and skills had always been important, it's huge part of RP (or what's left of it).
Yet, it's the only way to make sense out of this system (that's if we exclude the 'space-magical AI implants' kind of explanations)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2017 8:41:53 GMT
Since it won't force me to use it and i can still play straight up classes, i don't mind it. What bothers is that there is no making a choice anymore. To me RPG's have always been about choices and that includes choosing a class and mastering that class. Now you can learn everything, and be the master of all, which makes no sense to me. There is a place where you stop streamlining and enter dumbing down, and considering Mass Effect was already pretty streamlined, this is closer to the latter.
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Croatsky
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Post by Croatsky on Mar 13, 2017 8:46:53 GMT
I am uncertain, I need to play the game first to have an opinion on it.
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Post by isaidlunch on Mar 13, 2017 8:51:06 GMT
My main issue is being able to switch profiles in combat with the favorites system.
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Post by Croatsky on Mar 13, 2017 8:53:14 GMT
I don't like it, because the player's "class" will have no part when it comes to story. I really liked the little comments your crew sometimes made acknowledging that you're a biotic, it was cool. Plus I thought we'd see more of class specific interrupts like in the Omega DLC. But now I doubt it. IMO There is no uniqueness when it comes to classes anymore. In entire ME trilogy your class abilities were mentioned wooping couple of times and one time it was in a terrible DLC. I don't see where you're getting this.
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Post by FireAndBlood on Mar 13, 2017 10:11:37 GMT
I'll have to try it first before I make a decision but I think it's a step in the right direction. Classes in a single player game is an archaic concept as far as I am concerned and should go the way of 2D platformers and isometric games.
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Mar 13, 2017 10:15:08 GMT
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Post by Typhons Bioheat on Mar 13, 2017 11:20:26 GMT
I'll have to try it first before I make a decision but I think it's a step in the right direction. Classes in a single player game is an archaic concept as far as I am concerned and should go the way of 2D platformers and isometric games. Classes are unique and can help a character be themselves, have defined traits as well as providing a sense of believability and groundedness. Otherwise, all you have is a Gary Stu / Mary Sue Borg like blob, which is just a dull power fantasy jerk-off. Just like how it is practically impossible for the average engineer in real life to essentially morph into an endurance athlete on the fly or into a weapons expert at the press of a button, it should be practically impossible for Ryder to switch profiles on the fly or to switch profiles anywhere at anytime. Moreoover, no one is good at anything and everything at anytime. No one. Even exceptional polymaths are not pro fighters or superb athletes simultaneously and vice versa. Therefore,the class system is in no way an archaic concept.
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Post by 10k on Mar 13, 2017 11:33:05 GMT
In entire ME trilogy your class abilities were mentioned wooping couple of times and one time it was in a terrible DLC. I don't see where you're getting this Well obviously you didn't play the games thorough enough. Samantha traynor, Kelly and more throughout the series had small dialogue mentioning the player being a biotic or not. And in the Omega DLC if you were an engineer you were able to save the colonist faster than any class. That's where I'm getting this, I played the games. Did you?
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Post by fromthealps on Mar 13, 2017 11:57:42 GMT
Not sure how it works, but this sounds extremely exploitable and tedious to me. I'll reserve judgement until I've played the game, but I am not looking forward to this feature.
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Post by boyaki on Mar 13, 2017 12:02:28 GMT
I'll have to try it first before I make a decision but I think it's a step in the right direction. Classes in a single player game is an archaic concept as far as I am concerned and should go the way of 2D platformers and isometric games. Classes are unique and can help a character be themselves, have defined traits as well as providing a sense of believability and groundedness. Otherwise, all you have is a Gary Stu / Mary Sue Borg like blob, which is just a dull power fantasy jerk-off. Just like how it is practically impossible for the average engineer in real life to essentially morph into an endurance athlete on the fly or into a weapons expert at the press of a button, it should be practically impossible for Ryder to switch profiles on the fly or to switch profiles anywhere at anytime. Moreoover, no one is good at anything and everything at anytime. No one. Even exceptional polymaths are not pro fighters or superb athletes simultaneously and vice versa. Therefore,the class system is in no way an archaic concept. I do agree the limited class system is outdated. But it has been a long time and Andromeda just won't admit it is still a class system. Hopefully it has been a long time since we give up the "you are a wizard, you cannot possibly handle a sword". That is why we added in the first place hybrid class, because a class limited to only one domain in neither enjoyable for everyone neither a realist option "Sentinel, Vanguard, Infiltrator", they are proficient in two domain but are not the better in each domain than a soldier, an adept or a technician. We also added multi-class, once again a way to reflect the complexity of our world and it is basicly what Andromeda do. There is no logic in having no cross skill between combat/tech/biotic. Kaidan use biotic and tech, but he is still a soldier and carry a weapon, yet his class does not specify that. And a soldier using special equipement like a flamethrower or turret does not make him a technician. Let's say a theorical full soldier level 6 is 100% combat Then a theorical infiltrator level 6 is 50% combat 50% tech A real character like Kaidan, using mainly tech and biotic has still combat training so he is in fact something around 45% biotic, 35% tech and 20% combat (it is a arbitrary setting, i won't argue over it) And that is what the new system is trying to emulate. A Pathfinder could be 100% combat, or 50% tech and biotic or 33% everything. That system offer more liberty than the arbitrary limitation of the classes : "how you are going to fight vorchas and want to equip in consequence ? Too bad you are an adept, soldier have so few skill we decided to give them monopole over ammunition type without valid class reason". If switching profile allows more versatility for its user it does not make the best gun user, the best biotic user or the best tech user. Spending point in one tree does prevent you to spend that point in another.
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Post by mmoblitz on Mar 13, 2017 13:33:58 GMT
Too early to tell, but not thrilled with the concept. I prefer your locked behind one style. That gave me reasons to do multiple play-throughs. With this system I worry about re-playability. I know it's optional to do that. I would play Adept first since that as my favorite in the series and just specialize in that, picking nothing else. I'm curious if those type of players are going to punished for doing so? In other words, is the game designed as such that you are "encouraged" to spec into other areas or else you will find it very difficult to proceed in the game if not, impossible?
I have never like melee in games and I won't play a game that doesn't have ranged options. I played Adept and Infiltrator in the me series and none of the others. I tried them, but didn't care for them. I'm hearing with the limited powers getting into melee is going to be unavoidable and hence the profile setups so you can have melee abilities that you can switch to. This ties into the "encouraged" type of game play I think will make it difficult for those of us who do not like that type of combat.
In a nutshell, with that system I worry about re-playability and a "encouraged" combat style. I guess only time will tell.
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Post by mmoblitz on Mar 13, 2017 13:49:42 GMT
Classes are unique and can help a character be themselves, have defined traits as well as providing a sense of believability and groundedness. Otherwise, all you have is a Gary Stu / Mary Sue Borg like blob, which is just a dull power fantasy jerk-off. Just like how it is practically impossible for the average engineer in real life to essentially morph into an endurance athlete on the fly or into a weapons expert at the press of a button, it should be practically impossible for Ryder to switch profiles on the fly or to switch profiles anywhere at anytime. Moreoover, no one is good at anything and everything at anytime. No one. Even exceptional polymaths are not pro fighters or superb athletes simultaneously and vice versa. Therefore,the class system is in no way an archaic concept. I do agree the limited class system is outdated. But it has been a long time and Andromeda just won't admit it is still a class system. Hopefully it has been a long time since we give up the "you are a wizard, you cannot possibly handle a sword". That is why we added in the first place hybrid class, because a class limited to only one domain in neither enjoyable for everyone neither a realist option "Sentinel, Vanguard, Infiltrator", they are proficient in two domain but are not the better in each domain than a soldier, an adept or a technician. We also added multi-class, once again a way to reflect the complexity of our world and it is basicly what Andromeda do. There is no logic in having no cross skill between combat/tech/biotic. Kaidan use biotic and tech, but he is still a soldier and carry a weapon, yet his class does not specify that. And a soldier using special equipement like a flamethrower or turret does not make him a technician. Let's say a theorical full soldier level 6 is 100% combat Then a theorical infiltrator level 6 is 50% combat 50% tech A real character like Kaidan, using mainly tech and biotic has still combat training so he is in fact something around 45% biotic, 35% tech and 20% combat (it is a arbitrary setting, i won't argue over it) And that is what the new system is trying to emulate. A Pathfinder could be 100% combat, or 50% tech and biotic or 33% everything. That system offer more liberty than the arbitrary limitation of the classes : "how you are going to fight vorchas and want to equip in consequence ? Too bad you are an adept, soldier have so few skill we decided to give them monopole over ammunition type without valid class reason".If switching profile allows more versatility for its user it does not make the best gun user, the best biotic user or the best tech user. Spending point in one tree does prevent you to spend that point in another. This is where the companions you bring with you comes into the picture. You bring those that complement your weakness. You have more control over your companions. Now you have very little control over them and since your now going to be a "jack-of-all-trades" there is very little reason to even bring them with you unless you just need meat shields. Similar to how the companions were in DAI. Just there to distract the enemy while you did all the work. They had no other purpose. This to me takes away from the RPG concept in order to give more focus on the combat portion of the game. Looking more like what Bethesda did with FO4. Streamline the RPG and give more focus to combat.
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Post by FireAndBlood on Mar 13, 2017 15:15:13 GMT
I'll have to try it first before I make a decision but I think it's a step in the right direction. Classes in a single player game is an archaic concept as far as I am concerned and should go the way of 2D platformers and isometric games. Classes are unique and can help a character be themselves, have defined traits as well as providing a sense of believability and groundedness. Otherwise, all you have is a Gary Stu / Mary Sue Borg like blob, which is just a dull power fantasy jerk-off. Just like how it is practically impossible for the average engineer in real life to essentially morph into an endurance athlete on the fly or into a weapons expert at the press of a button, it should be practically impossible for Ryder to switch profiles on the fly or to switch profiles anywhere at anytime. Moreoover, no one is good at anything and everything at anytime. No one. Even exceptional polymaths are not pro fighters or superb athletes simultaneously and vice versa. Therefore,the class system is in no way an archaic concept. Ryder is a trained soldier, not a pro fighter nor a superb athlete, he is using all the abilities available to him through his military training, the profile system are stat boosts nothing more, Ryder is not actually switching classes. The class system gave us idiotic concepts such as Shepard being unable to use more than two weapons effectively if he wasn't a soldier, which makes no sense since Shepard is supposed to be N7. If you want Ryder to be limited to one class then by all means do so in your playthrough, choose the adept profile and only use biotic abilities, choose an engineer profile and use only tech and so on and so forth, BioWare is not preventing you from doing so.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 13, 2017 15:38:14 GMT
In practice, how much do profiles matter? From what I saw in the trailers, if you don't put points into biotic abilities you can switch Ryder to a biotic profile, but she'll suck at it.
(Assuming you can use such a profile without spending the points first, that is.)
The question will be how the point allocation works. In the TES games it's pretty efficient to just be good at everything. We'll see if that's the case with ME:A.
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Post by cribbian on Mar 13, 2017 16:00:15 GMT
I'll probably not use it much, if at all.
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Post by boyaki on Mar 13, 2017 16:48:10 GMT
I have to disagree. I never believe that companion choice matter in term of gameplay. I do 99% of the work alone and most of the class are already equiped with enough ability to deal with each enemy type. Also that philosophy would prevent you from ever bringing a squadmate with the same specialization that you have which does not seem a very good approach.
Now you talk about being a jack of all trade, but being a jack of all trade is one build you are not forced to have. Creating an explorer profile require you to have points everywhere, that is not easy to come by. From what it seem a jack of all trade is more a close combat profile than a "I can do everything i want" and seems to seriously lack damage. When you look at the infiltrator bonus profile it seems to be the only way to be an efficient sniper, and those profiles are not very co-friendly. Squadmate could cover your overall weak spot like melee fighting or biotic CC or burst damage. After All Drack bloodrage make him easily a most effective brawler than you could hope to be. Explorer profile require a lot of ability, which in turn encourage you to change profile to use all those ability. The infiltrator bonus profile (huge bonus to sniper rifle, headshot and precision) require to work a sniper rifle, and those are heavy weighted. And even as a 100% jack of all trade, you cannot cover all ability. Even if you have biotic combo at your disposal they will be way weaker than the adept profile.
Example : Adept rank 1 (only need 10 points invested) +15% Biotic Force, Aoe Damage and radius +20% Biotic Effect duration and combo radius Biotic echoes : Biotic combo can create additional explosion
Explorer rank 2 (need 8 point invested in each category) +7% weapon damage +7 Damage resistance +20% tech cd speed, biotic damage, power restoration and defense quicker dodge
An explorer profile level 2 require you to have 8 point in biotic, so almost as much as adept 1 but it is way less efficient at biotic than adept. At the same level I could be Adept 2 (just up every bonus by 5%). Not only I am considerably more efficient at biotic abilies by simple passive bonus provided my profile, but I have also stronger ability because I have 24 point instead of 8. An adept could further augment his ability by taking biotics passive the explorer could not afford (those require a lot of biotic abilities). With mod and 4 piece of armor the adept focused player will not be slightly be stronger than the explorer in biotic there would be no competion. for example the biotic passive offensive (level 3 => 6 point) +14% biotic damage, cd reduction and combo detonation, That is a huge bonus fpor a level 3 ability.
The Jack of All Trade (33% everywhere) does not seem to be a good build. The explorer profile seems a good deal for those hoping for combat and give access to all hybrid for alternate gameplay but is really bad at each core domain. Thinking a character could be a soldier and a adept and a technician is getting the wrong idea. Passive bonus are too great to be ignored and they structure the class.
Personnaly my build will be like 60% biotic, 30% soldier and 10% tech. Adept 6 for combo hell. Vanguard 5 for some melee gameplay, Soldier 4 for solo dps and Explorer 3 for using special gear. Overall I play a quick burst biotic with some melee abilities. Even with 4 profile I don't see how I could introduce a sniper specialisation or anything using tech. I do need some damage, so i cannot invest too much point in tech. My armor would further improve my biotic abilities so taking most tech abilities would be useless, maybe tech armor. I don't consider that build to be a jack of all trade.
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Post by deebo305 on Mar 13, 2017 17:04:32 GMT
Profile switching is really no big deal in hindsight, its really just a natural progression of removing small limitations. For example, why shouldn't an Adept be able to Charge or an Infiltrator be able to use Overload. Certain limits were dumb in all honesty
Granted in Andromeda Ryder can potentially be maxed out in everything but how many players will really grind to level 100+ just to max out every profile? Very few quite honestly
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Post by boyaki on Mar 13, 2017 17:12:26 GMT
Is it possible through ? I mean without NG+
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Post by midnightwolf on Mar 13, 2017 18:51:49 GMT
Honestly, I've no clue. Since I've been avoiding reading about such things.....I'd rather wait to find out such things for my self.
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