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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2017 21:11:25 GMT
A lot of people really like Twilight. That doesn't mean it's good writing. I don't think Twitter was nearly the monstrosity that it is today when ME3 came out, but if you're writing a game for an AAA company and try to hype it up the way they did for ME3 and now for ME:A, you should probably have a thick enough skin to be able to take some people saying that your writing sucks on Twitter. Who's the snowflake now? I really, really want(ed) ME:A to be good. I wanted something to make me love the Mass Effect franchise the way I did when I first played ME (and then ME2). Sadly, from what I've seen so far (making no effort to avoid spoilers because I don't want to get excited for something that turns out to be a massive disappointment the way ME3 was), it's not looking like the epic sci-fi RPG with a deep, dynamic story that I was hoping for. :shrug: It's just a game. I pretty much assumed that the series was toast after ME3. Ok calm down I never treated anyone of snowflake, like NEVER. I said something before about that but I will have to repeat it : I was speaking about the extremists. If you just thought mass effect 3 was bad, its not a problem. you can think whatever you want about mass effect 3, you can write a novel about how bad you think it is if you wish so. As long as you don't insult the people who don't think differently than you, that is totally fine. The problem are about the extremists who see conspiracy the second someone gives a bioware game a good review, you may disagree with angry joe when he gives ME 3 an 8 out of 10. Totally fine to disagree with his score, I myself don't always agree with him, and that is fine. BUT accusing him of corruption and being paid by EA, even if he never miss them when they do something shitty : It has happened A LOT, some people cannot accept the fact that other gamer THINKS theses games are good, their only explanation for the good score is "these people are paid by a corporation to say that" the ockham razor theory never comes to their mind that MAYBE that person just thinks these products are genuinely good games. For the extremists (not the one who makes constructive criticsm) its impossible that someone sees thing differently. Well here I am, thinking all bioware games have been good since the very first mass effect (with the exception of dragon age 2) and I am certainly not paid to say that. And just to be more accurate, I SEE THEM AS GOOD GAMES, not just enjoy them, I think they are good and I am not ashamed of that. Nobody forces you to think like angry joe or projared when they both putted mass effect 3 in their top 10 games of 2012, my point was about the extremists not the people who don't think much of ME 3, and yes there is a huge differences. And I never said that people should never except criticsm on the internet, I actually never even spoke that, I spoke about the paranoid conspiracy theorist. But you apperently thought it was about you for some reasons? If you think the writing is not good in ME 3, well all right, but that was not the subject AT ALL. It was not about the criticism of the game, it was about the extremism of some people. Thinking and criticising ME 3 is not a problem and I never said it was, I actually written that not all people who disliked mass effect 3 are extremist. Now about the spoiler, you see when I was in school, I had to read an Agatha Chirstie novel and I did not wanted to do that, like REALLY NOT. You know what I did? I decided to read the last page to immediatly know who was the killer to make sure my experience would be as boring as possible. Because some people were telling me that this novel might no be as boring as the other books, but I was thick headed and I did not wanted this experiece to be good, so I sabotaged it myself by spoiling the story. When you decide to not care about spoiler, well YOU decided to spoil yourself the story, YOU decided to have no surprises with the plot, YOU decided to not have an experience where you will discover the word that is suppose to be unknown to you. You see that's the thing, some story elements are made for you to not know them before playing, if you know them before, you ruin a part of your own experience. And that is not bioware's fault if you decided that, you decided to have no surprise and therefore having a lesser experience. For exemple in mass effect 2, someone who did not watch ANY trailers would have a better experience than the ones who decided to watch all of them. Because the trailer showed grunt as a korgan companion, however you are not supposed to know that before you play, you are suppose to think that warlord okeer is going to fill that role. But since grunt appear in the marketing and not okeer, you knew okeer is not going to survive the korlus mission and his subjects will be your companion, therefore making the situation much less effective and is death predictable. Same for the archangel mission, its suppose to be a surprise that he and garrus are the same person, but since the marketing make sure to spoil that scene, the reveal is not effective at all. we identify far less with sheppard when he is asking question about archangel because the player knew who he was and therefore all the situation, all the questioning on him before he removes his mask were pointless because there is no feeling of discovery or anything. we already know what its going to lead to. Now I am not saying you would have loved mass effect andromeda even while not spoiling yourself, maybe you would have hated this game even by not watching any trailer or clip, that is possible. BUT what happen here is that because you feared dissapointment so much, you thought it was worth spoiling yourself the feeling of discovery or surprise. You decided to sacrifice a bit of your experience just to be 100% sure to not have dissapointment, and that is not bioware responsability if you decided to do that while you could have chosen to not do it. And I want you to think of this, the people who decided to not spoil themselves are probably going to enjoy this game more than you do. because they are going to discover it when they play, NOT with trailers or clips. There is going to have a sense of discovery for them, a feeling of surprise that you won't have because you decided to not care about spoiler. So if someone come with a good review of MEA, would you understand why maybe they had a better experience than you had? Think about this. I've just played both MET (twice) and DA series (still making my way through Inquisition) from this fall (2016) to now. Everything in those 6 games is known and categorized, and available on the net for looking. You get spoilers even if you are not searching for them, by just looking up how to proceed with a quest. There were some surprises, but a lot of things I picked up inadvertently because I love the "What did you do today in Game X" threads. My relationship with each of the six games was different despite similar amount of spoilers I was receiving as I've played. I found both ME1 and DA:O well-crafted solid games in Baldur's Gate mold, but by whatever reason I loved-loved-loved ME1, and DA:O was "yeah, good game". I was in love with every second of ME2, while DA2 and ME3, I had to get over the beginning sequence before getting super-attached. And, in ace of ME3, blown away. Yes, blown away despite the outrage over the game on the net. Inquisition keeps me barely interested, and, a couple of times it put me on the verge of rage-quit. I am sticking with it out of sheer stubbornness, for the rare glimpses of what I like in Bio games, and for hope that Dorian might say something. Surprise and wonder are great helpers in discovering a story, but there is more to the love affair with a work of fiction that simply not knowing what is going to happen next. Anyways, I wish everyone a great game and I hope to have a wonderful ride through the SP, and a total blast in the MP :) Let's see what Bio cooked up this time.
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Post by malgus on Mar 15, 2017 21:35:37 GMT
I've just played both MET (twice) and DA series (still making my way through Inquisition) from this fall (2016) to now. Everything in those 6 games is known and categorized, and available on the net for looking. You get spoilers even if you are not searching for them, by just looking up how to proceed with a quest. There were some surprises, but a lot of things I picked up inadvertently because I love the "What did you do today in Game X" threads. My relationship with each of the six games was different despite similar amount of spoilers I was receiving as I've played. I found both ME1 and DA:O well-crafted solid games in Baldur's Gate mold, but by whatever reason I loved-loved-loved ME1, and DA:O was "yeah, good game". I was in love with every second of ME2, while DA2 and ME3, I had to get over the beginning sequence before getting super-attached. And, in ace of ME3, blown away. Yes, blown away despite the outrage over the game on the net. Inquisition keeps me barely interested, and, a couple of times it put me on the verge of rage-quit. I am sticking with it out of sheer stubbornness, for the rare glimpses of what I like in Bio games, and for hope that Dorian might say something. Surprise and wonder are great helpers in discovering a story, but there is more to the love affair with a work of fiction that simply not knowing what is going to happen next. Anyways, I wish everyone a great game and I hope to have a wonderful ride through the SP, and a total blast in the MP Let's see what Bio cooked up this time. Sure surprise is not everything for a story, its not because you don't know anything about it before you experience it that it means you will love it. But it can still influence the experience, and I consider it to be the case in ME 2. Especially about garrus because when I saw the video of mass effect 2 before the release, I thought that it would be common knowledge in the game that archangel and him are the same person, or at least said at the beginning of his mission. The problem is the plot does not play it like that, it counts on the fact that we don't know anything about that vigilante, it plays the mystery card with that character, and it fails on that part because we already know his identiy. It's even worse for grunt, because we are not suppose to know that grunt can be tamed or reasoned with, we are suppose to have sense of dread releasing from his metal container. But since we have seen him in the marketing we know he is going to be one of our squadmates when we are not supposed to know what to except about that artificial krogan. Now mass effect 2 is still a very good game despite those spoilers, I am not saying it makes the game bad or there is no reason to play the game for that, its still fantastic. But the marketing spoiler's did influence the experience of that game in a negative way.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Mar 15, 2017 21:39:46 GMT
I get the sense that opinions regarding this game will be all over the place. Some people will say it's the greatest RPG of all time, others will say it's complete garbage and killed the Mass Effect franchise. I get the sense there won't be much in between either. I hope so Might be the kick in the ass Bioware needs to being back shepard
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2017 21:45:45 GMT
malgus I have just had a similar conversation in another thread, and I would just repeat that for some of us certain spoilers make the game that much more exciting and thrilling. It's always about knowing thyself. If you are a person that feels that wind is stolen out of your sails when you know in advance that Archangel is Garrus, absolutely, avoid the promo vids. If, it on the opposite makes you catch your breath in anticipation, go for it. I think that the person you are talking to quite intentionally manages her anticipations, so... good luck, really. It's a valid strategy.
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Post by malgus on Mar 15, 2017 21:51:54 GMT
malgus I have just had a similar conversation in another thread, and I would just repeat that for some of us certain spoilers make the game that much more exciting and thrilling. It's always about knowing thyself. If you are a person that feels that wind is stolen out of your sails when you know in advance that Archangel is Garrus, absolutely, avoid the promo vids. If, it on the opposite makes you catch your breath in anticipation, go for it. I think that the person you are talking to quite intentionally manages her anticipations, so... good luck, really. It's a valid strategy. I am curious, tell me how it makes the game more exciting if you know plot twists before they happen? especially when the game is written in a way that you are NOT supposed to know. That its counting on your surprise and you not knowing.
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 15, 2017 21:58:20 GMT
I just need to chime in here, but I have worked with Joe Vargas before...and honestly he has no clue what he is saying half the time. Most of it is catering to his fanbase vs presenting good opinions.
Hard worker though, but honestly, I wouldn't use him as a reliable or even credible critique. He is basically a nicer version of Jim Sterling.
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Post by malgus on Mar 15, 2017 22:06:40 GMT
I just need to chime in here, but I have worked with Joe Vargas before...and honestly he has no clue what he is saying half the time. Most of it is catering to his fanbase vs presenting good opinions. Hard worker though, but honestly, I wouldn't use him as a reliable or even credible critique. He is basically a nicer version of Jim Sterling. And when did you worked with him? In which context? Sorry but I would ask you to forgive my skepticism about such statements And he is just Catering to his fanbase? The guy was certainly not affraid to say his opinion even if the people would want to say something else, he defended DMC 5 as a 7 out of 10 game, and he had no problem calling the fanboys out who wanted him to shit on his game and give it a one. And you are aware his fanbase is actually very diverse with different opinion, so how he is suppose to cater to it? Its not like a playstation channel where you would except only good things to be said about playstation products on this channel. One way or an other he will say something that his community won't agree with because its very diverse.
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 16, 2017 0:23:25 GMT
I just need to chime in here, but I have worked with Joe Vargas before...and honestly he has no clue what he is saying half the time. Most of it is catering to his fanbase vs presenting good opinions. Hard worker though, but honestly, I wouldn't use him as a reliable or even credible critique. He is basically a nicer version of Jim Sterling. And when did you worked with him? In which context? Sorry but I would ask you to forgive my skepticism about such statements And he is just Catering to his fanbase? The guy was certainly not affraid to say his opinion even if the people would want to say something else, he defended DMC 5 as a 7 out of 10 game, and he had no problem calling the fanboys out who wanted him to shit on his game and give it a one. And you are aware his fanbase is actually very diverse with different opinion, so how he is suppose to cater to it? Its not like a playstation channel where you would except only good things to be said about playstation products on this channel. One way or an other he will say something that his community won't agree with because its very diverse. I worked with him primarily during the Blistered Thumbs debacle that occured between Channel Awesome and the staff writers of the time. I was brought on board to do writing and worked there from 2011-2013, volunteer basis. Joe was amicable but always a bit hot-headed, and he had no clue what he was doing or saying when it came to running the website. To be fair to him he was dealt a bad hand by Channel Awesome, who basically has no leadership whatsoever and is filled with a lot of egos. Joe was also a bit self-absorbed and way too into video content- I was primarily staff writer/contributor. After he was fired from being the EiC of Blistered Thumbs we jumped around a bit and had no support from CA heads for a whole year, before they decided to shut down the website entirely. One of the big problems I had with Joe was his over-enthusiastic take on a lot of games...which got our website into trouble a lot of the time. A lot of publishers didn't want to help or support us, and the site was not making money, so it was dead on the vine. Joe basically went to E3's as his character, instead of trying to play it straight. It hurt the website's reputation and made BT look less serious as an online games site in the eyes of a lot of dev teams...and we kind of suffered the consequences for it. It was not the most positive experience or impression I had from Joe or the rest of CA, truth be told. I admit I don't know what his community is like now, mostly because I don't care for his content. If it's as diverse as it is, good for that. He still comes across more as an entertainer over someone to take as a serious critic to me.
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Post by dreth on Mar 16, 2017 2:11:54 GMT
The internet does love it's hyperbole. It's amazing or it's garbage, no-one makes an average game anymore apparently. In truth most people are unable to separate their own personal disappointment from objective truth. Someone thinks a game would be great but it turns out to just be decent. So the "logical" response is to slam it like it was Superman 64 and give it a 0/10 user review. I don't think BioWare has made a single game I've played that could be labelled truly awful. Very True.. Even percieved failures like DA:2 or DA:I are by themselves actually good games. If you compare them to all other RPGs released at the same Time the 8-9/10 Scores where pretty justified. Sadly there are just not as many even decent RPGs in direct comparison to Dragon Age or Mass Effect. When DA2 came the two RPGs that would dominate 2011 in Witcher 2 and Skyrim where not released yet. The same happened with DA:I. Skyrim was already 3 years old..in 2014 not one really good RPG released so DA:I by itself compared to what released at the same Time.. again.. a good Game. And especially DA:I suffered immensly after just half a year later The Witcher 3 came out.. DA:I went from mostly loved to mostly hated just around the Time The Witcher 3 came out.. The Witcher 3 made all flaws DA:I had so much more visible. The Fetch Quests, the Combat System, the "Meh" Antagonist, The Big but a bit "sterile" regions.. I was the same.. before The Witcher 3 i really liked DA:I for me it was "well not Origins but alot better than DA2" .. since i played TW3 i could not finish another Playthrough of DAI as much as i wanted to.. But at least i still remember how i felt when i first played it. I loved it. I think many people forgot or denied that they liked or even loved it at first playthrough.. I still hold that "First Playthrough feeling" to DA:I's credit. And can still say its a good Game.. just not as great as it could have been. Bioware as you said has never made a truly BAD game.. The Characters, The created Universe and the Atmosphere is at least really good in EVERY Bioware game so far. It can be disapointing and not to your taste.. but its never either non existend or horrible. People are too black and white.. as you said.. its either the best Game they every played or a complete pile of trash.. most people wont say "Well it was good but not great" or "I really liked it just a few minor problems" Its truly a shame that a game like The Witcher 3 can come around, be amazing, but ruin the opinion of other games. I never played Dragon Age Inquisition. And for no particular reason. I just never did. I played DA:O back in the day and really enjoyed it. I still have my physical PC copy floating around somewhere. Everything now is Black and White. Like Anakin in the end of Star Wars EP 3. Everyone is so quick to judge a game based on other games that they love or based on the company that develops/publishes them and either love a game with the power of 10000000000 erections or hate it like a crazy Ex that stomped their dog.
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Post by malgus on Mar 16, 2017 2:42:17 GMT
I worked with him primarily during the Blistered Thumbs debacle that occured between Channel Awesome and the staff writers of the time. I was brought on board to do writing and worked there from 2011-2013, volunteer basis. Joe was amicable but always a bit hot-headed, and he had no clue what he was doing or saying when it came to running the website. To be fair to him he was dealt a bad hand by Channel Awesome, who basically has no leadership whatsoever and is filled with a lot of egos. Joe was also a bit self-absorbed and way too into video content- I was primarily staff writer/contributor. After he was fired from being the EiC of Blistered Thumbs we jumped around a bit and had no support from CA heads for a whole year, before they decided to shut down the website entirely. One of the big problems I had with Joe was his over-enthusiastic take on a lot of games...which got our website into trouble a lot of the time. A lot of publishers didn't want to help or support us, and the site was not making money, so it was dead on the vine. Joe basically went to E3's as his character, instead of trying to play it straight. It hurt the website's reputation and made BT look less serious as an online games site in the eyes of a lot of dev teams...and we kind of suffered the consequences for it. It was not the most positive experience or impression I had from Joe or the rest of CA, truth be told. I admit I don't know what his community is like now, mostly because I don't care for his content. If it's as diverse as it is, good for that. He still comes across more as an entertainer over someone to take as a serious critic to me. Ok I see your story is believable, I will still take it with a grain of salt since I know I cannot trust everything that is on the internet (I am sorry for that), but I have no problem thinking joe is a bit hot headed about what he wants to do. Now if you don't want to listen to his reviews because you don't take his opinion seriously, and you see him more as an entairtener its fine. joe may had taken bad decision in the past, but he does not change his opinion for the people that follows him, when he likes something and thinks its good, he says it no matter what the community thinks. Just like when people wanted him to destroy DMC and he said what he thinks, it was an all right game at a 7 out of 10, just like when the people were shitting on watch dogs and saying it was the worst game ever due to the downgrade, he came and said what he thought, not what people excepted, that the game was fine, not bad, not exceptional, just all right. He could have easily surf on the ubisoft or capcom hates with both of these game and the audience would have taken it, he did not. Joe never shyed away from saying what he likes or hate about the industry or particular franchise. He may had a bad behavior in the past regarding the site he was working for, not taking is opinion seriously is fine if someone disagress too many time with him. But he does not say something just to please his audience or say something positive about a game because he is paid by any corporation, considering the shits he give the industry any time they screw up. He may be a hot head, but he does not go along with the majority if he does not think like them and he is certainly not a sell out like some accuse him to be. (I know you do not accuse him of being paid by a corporation to say something positive about their game, but some people do)
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Post by SilJeff on Mar 16, 2017 3:14:56 GMT
As excited as I am for MEA, there may be a reason why the embargo is so late to lift
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Post by Madflavor on Mar 16, 2017 3:32:34 GMT
Oh it's definitely going to be a love it or hate it game. I mean the cat's outta the bag now. We have 10 hour Early Access with the Day 1 patch uploaded. There's no room to make excuses or handwave complaints anymore. We might be looking at Bioware's lowest scored game since DA2. It might actually score lower than that game. If that happens, oh man.
Best case scenario is maybe Bioware will get their heads outta their asses and realize they're not immortal anymore. If critics aren't willing to pit up with their game's shortcomings, then hopefully they'll get their asses in gear.
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Post by SofaJockey on Mar 20, 2017 10:58:22 GMT
The reviews are certainly coming in polarised with a 5-5 --> 9.5 spread.
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Post by Warrick on Mar 20, 2017 12:05:03 GMT
I disagree. The people who outright hate the game also hate Bioware and its employees. They are often gamergaters or disgruntled, witcher-worshipping ex-fans and go beyond the game to complain about Manveer Heir and Jennifer Hepler, whom they know by name.
I like to read Spanish sites because they're not into that crap. As outsiders, they receive the game like it's any other game and review it accordingly. The reaction here is lukewarm, not love/hate.
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