fatherjerusalem
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I used to think that I was cynical and a pessimist. Then I found the BSN.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by fatherjerusalem on Mar 19, 2017 4:25:07 GMT
A few things on this. One, Ethan Ralph is a cunt. Two, he didn't do his homework correctly, and has doubled down on the justification for his work. So honestly, he is perpeuating a witch hunt. Polygon and Kotkau picked up on it and bashed him down, in the process dragging that hashtag into the mix because Ralph has been GG supported for a while now. This is basically the Jennifer Hepler thing all over again, and just more proof some folks had axes to grind. I really wish this hadn't been turned into a witchhunt, but he actually is right about her position. Her twitter bio literally said "Lead Facial Animator for Mass Effect: Andromeda". Was she around long enough to be responsible for the animations we see in the game? Who knows. If she deserves any crap than it should come from her employers, not the internet at large. Now all the complaints about facial animation are going to be ruined by gamergate tier garbage. My twitter bio (if... I had twitter) could say "Lead Facial Animator for Mass Effect: Andromeda". I'm not. And just because I said so on twitter doesn't mean I am. From what I've seen, this Ralph cunt took that as absolute proof that she was solely responsible for all of the janky animations without actually... doing anything to check it out, and now that BioWare put a statement out, is doubling down on his "journalistic efforts" by accusing BioWare of lying. And regardless of whether or not she was the Lead Facial Animator, regardless of whether or not she was responsible for the janky animations or not, she absolutely - unequivocally - does not deserve the cyclone of self-entitled misogynistic bullshit that is being hurled at her.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 19, 2017 4:28:05 GMT
I swear, gamers are the worst.
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Post by Hier0phant on Mar 19, 2017 4:28:32 GMT
The whole situation is dumb. If there's going to be a witch hunt shouldn't the Inquisition be gunning for the people who gave her that position? But these are trolls though so fuck logic.
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Sarayne
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Post by Sarayne on Mar 19, 2017 4:28:55 GMT
I really wish this hadn't been turned into a witchhunt, but he actually is right about her position. Her twitter bio literally said "Lead Facial Animator for Mass Effect: Andromeda". Was she around long enough to be responsible for the animations we see in the game? Who knows. If she deserves any crap than it should come from her employers, not the internet at large. Now all the complains about facial animation are going to be ruined by gamergate tier garbage. Problem is, Lead Facial Animator is often more than one person. It's usually a team. A director often sounds off on final decisions, not a lead animator. If were to really start blaming people for things, blame BioWare as a team for doing a mediocre job, not one person who you think is not qualified. That is where the witch hunt stuff becomes a problem. It doesn't matter if hes right about the position or not, he still should have did his homework and not imply she got the job because of her sex, which he did in his article. That is yellow journalism. wait what?! Did he really imply that? People like this make me hate that I share the species with them
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Post by mikeymoonshine on Mar 19, 2017 4:31:21 GMT
Even if she was the "lead animator" she's not the one who chose to release the game to the public with the animations in that state. Anyway, I highly doubt this issue is down to one specific person.
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Post by NUM13ER on Mar 19, 2017 4:31:24 GMT
Wait was PeeBee in proper armour earlier in development? That had best not miraculously make a return in DLC...
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theflyingzamboni
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Post by theflyingzamboni on Mar 19, 2017 4:32:35 GMT
This developers fandom is embarrassing. God damn. Having known someone who worked in game development... it's not just this one. Gaming, as much as I love it, attracts a lot of shitty people. People who are more than happy to harass and threaten the devs that make the thing they allegedly love.
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Post by surelyforth on Mar 19, 2017 4:32:57 GMT
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Post by mikeymoonshine on Mar 19, 2017 4:35:29 GMT
Problem is, Lead Facial Animator is often more than one person. It's usually a team. A director often sounds off on final decisions, not a lead animator. If were to really start blaming people for things, blame BioWare as a team for doing a mediocre job, not one person who you think is not qualified. That is where the witch hunt stuff becomes a problem. It doesn't matter if hes right about the position or not, he still should have did his homework and not imply she got the job because of her sex, which he did in his article. That is yellow journalism. wait what?! Did he really imply that? People like this make me hate that I share the species with them A good chunk of the hate for this game is about politics. Like that's not an excuse to write off the actual legitimate criticism but there are a lot of people who think bioware is doing things like hiring unqualified developers because they are women or minorities. They also think bioware is making female characters unattractive for feminist reasons, excluding white people, pandering to gay people blah blah ect ect. Like maybe not all of it is completely unfounded but most of it is obvious bs.
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Post by NUM13ER on Mar 19, 2017 4:38:06 GMT
Honestly you'd think people would do a quick search for these details online. You'd also think people would attack the end product itself rather than an individual. But I guess harassing someone and immediately blaming some form of positive discrimination appears to be a far more productive means of getting your criticism across in a meaningful way. For some reason. This one went downhill pretty fast, even by internet standards.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2017 4:40:09 GMT
Frostbite isn't the best game for facial animations, what a bunch of bullshit
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 19, 2017 4:47:57 GMT
Problem is, Lead Facial Animator is often more than one person. It's usually a team. A director often sounds off on final decisions, not a lead animator. If were to really start blaming people for things, blame BioWare as a team for doing a mediocre job, not one person who you think is not qualified. That is where the witch hunt stuff becomes a problem. It doesn't matter if hes right about the position or not, he still should have did his homework and not imply she got the job because of her sex, which he did in his article. That is yellow journalism. wait what?! Did he really imply that? People like this make me hate that I share the species with them Yeah he did. Basically insinuated she either slept her way to the job or it was a SJW hiring because she was female.
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SilJeff
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Post by SilJeff on Mar 19, 2017 5:31:21 GMT
I remember seeing a topic regarding Bioware's response on this on GameFAQs and people were bashing Bioware for it saying things like "Bioware is telling consumers to **** off" and "Bioware telling fans to stop criticizing their employees for bad work" yadda yadda yadda.
I hate being considered a gamer sometimes. We are perceived as a bunch of whiny morons, and things like this kinda prove the perception correct
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midasear
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Post by midasear on Mar 19, 2017 5:35:04 GMT
Frostbite isn't the best game for facial animations, what a bunch of bullshit I've gotta agree. Facial animations were one of the few things that impressed me a bit about DA:I, and they are perfectly serviceable in Battlefield (The Renumbered!). Both were done on the same iteration of Frostbite, with earlier release dates and somewhat tighter project times. The problem is in Montreal Bioware. EA supposedly paid to develop and push out Frostbite to its development studios in part to let people share a knowledge base and toolset. Knowledge transfer to Montreal clearly did NOT happen the way it did elsewhere. /shrug I'm going to start playing ME:A next week, and I'm reasonably sure I'll enjoy it. But I'm not blind (yet...). Serious problems in the animation and cutscenes, which are pretty much the main thing that differentiates Mass Effect SP from a generic shooter, are blitheringly OBVIOUS. The suits in Redwood City can't be happy. I suspect Manveer's head will not be the only one to roll. Not that Thunder Curry is pursuing other interests and/or spending more time with his family over this issue in particular. I think Redwood City has a lot of reasons to be unhappy with Montreal.
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Post by Hier0phant on Mar 19, 2017 5:37:40 GMT
The situation gets dumber by the minute.
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abedsbrother
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Post by abedsbrother on Mar 19, 2017 5:45:02 GMT
Frostbite isn't the best game for facial animations, what a bunch of bullshit wavebend ikr It's not like DA:I and Battlefield 1 used Frostbyte... #sarcasm
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 19, 2017 5:45:05 GMT
People don't surprise me anymore. They will attack anyone and anything for the smallest reasons. Either the internet truly brings out the worst in people, or it simply brings out the worst people. I'm a solid believer in the Greater Internet Fuckwad theory. I hate the internet sometimes.
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Post by Hier0phant on Mar 19, 2017 5:50:59 GMT
This situation just saved BioWare from further derision. If they can keep bringing up this harassment campaign whenever MEA's animations are mentioned then they're good.
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Post by oniangel on Mar 19, 2017 6:04:13 GMT
My stance is that there is a problem with journalism the way it has been cultivized in gaming, and it's even worse in my own country's game journalism just comparing their article quality, the bias, the advertisement to actual journalism that isn't about gaming or multi-subject journalism that covers gaming as part of a bigger agenda, it's something that needed to be called into action (or whatever the flying fuck it means) but just not in this way. I know half of the GG crowd are just B-tards who jumped on an opportunity-bandwagon for mayhem and the real GG'ers just shot themselves in the foot by starting something akin to anarchy... oh well, I've said enough, but really, there's so much bullshit involved with everthing KIA is, let alone the entire gamergate fiasco. GG was a short lived consumer revolt with no staying power, whose corpse is continually reanimated by their political enemies in order to serve as a Scooby Dooesque boogeyman for their clickbait articles, while KIA are Reddit boy scouts who have been irrelevant for years now. Those clowns who are harassing that former Bio employee are reminiscent of the ones who attacked Hepler and seem like lone wolves . More like it was tactfully derailed by the accused(media) including one of Polygon's own editors who openly supported adultery. Still would of faded out in the long run due to the AAA industries practices being effectively accepted at this point. You and others are correct though that Bioware and others will be able to leverage these trolls behaviors against critics.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2017 6:11:05 GMT
Frostbite: BF1 (ingame) facial design: MEA facial design: Every EA studio works with the same (proprietary) animation toolkit. some people just can't admit that bioware montreal is a bunch of amateurs. literally inexcusable.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2017 6:13:01 GMT
This developers fandom is embarrassing. God damn. Having known someone who worked in game development... it's not just this one. Gaming, as much as I love it, attracts a lot of shitty people. People who are more than happy to harass and threaten the devs that make the thing they allegedly love. I think it's just fandom in general and not limited to gamers. Sports fandoms can be notoriously harsh, for instance. It is shitty behavior though, and a few asshats who get carried away ruin it for everyone else.
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mrobnoxiousuk
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Post by mrobnoxiousuk on Mar 19, 2017 6:15:39 GMT
Having known someone who worked in game development... it's not just this one. Gaming, as much as I love it, attracts a lot of shitty people. People who are more than happy to harass and threaten the devs that make the thing they allegedly love. I think it's just fandom in general and not limited to gamers. Sports fandoms can be notoriously harsh, for instance. It is shitty behavior though, and a few asshats who get carried away ruin it for everyone else. Wow those BF1 faces are almost photo realistic,colour me impressed.
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Post by Hier0phant on Mar 19, 2017 6:16:41 GMT
GG was a short lived consumer revolt with no staying power, whose corpse is continually reanimated by their political enemies in order to serve as a Scooby Dooesque boogeyman for their clickbait articles, while KIA are Reddit boy scouts who have been irrelevant for years now. Those clowns who are harassing that former Bio employee are reminiscent of the ones who attacked Hepler and seem like lone wolves . More like it was tactfully derailed by the accused(media) including one of Polygon's own editors who openly supported adultery. Still would of faded out in the long run due to the AAA industries practices being effectively accepted at this point. You and others are correct though that Bioware and others will be able to leverage these trolls behaviors against critics.Which is a damn shame too... Critic: "So BioWare let us talk about MEA's animations?" BioWare: "More importantly we need to discuss the harassment, and abuse female devs face, LGBQT, and intersectional feminism." Critic: BioWare:
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Post by projectpatdc on Mar 19, 2017 6:27:07 GMT
It's ironic how the ones who complain about any form of mediocracy typically are the ones who expect their participation trophies. This doesn't surprise me in the least considering the idiotic riots and protests in my country. Be fucking grateful that you are fortunate enough to even get to play the damn game. There are so many people out there who absolutely sci fi adventures but will never experience anything like Mass Effect mostly because people are unfortunately a product of their environment
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Post by projectpatdc on Mar 19, 2017 6:32:52 GMT
I think it's just fandom in general and not limited to gamers. Sports fandoms can be notoriously harsh, for instance. It is shitty behavior though, and a few asshats who get carried away ruin it for everyone else. Wow those BF1 faces are almost photo realistic,colour me impressed. Battlefield 1 stories are amazing as are the animations. But similar to uncharted 4 or the order 1886, the scenes, dialogue, and animations are far less and very compact compared to Mass Effect Andromeda. Battlefield 1's campaign can be beaten in 8 hours with maybe 1.5-2 hours at most showing any kind of facial animation. Mass Effect Andromeda is 70-150 hours with maybe 30 hours of facial animations and dialogue. That's a drastic difference in quantity.
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