mrobnoxiousuk
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Post by mrobnoxiousuk on Mar 19, 2017 6:44:56 GMT
Wow those BF1 faces are almost photo realistic,colour me impressed. Battlefield 1 stories are amazing as are the animations. But similar to uncharted 4 or the order 1886, the scenes, dialogue, and animations are far less and very compact compared to Mass Effect Andromeda. Battlefield 1's campaign can be beaten in 8 hours with maybe 1.5-2 hours at most showing any kind of facial animation. Mass Effect Andromeda is 70-150 hours with maybe 30 hours of facial animations and dialogue. That's a drastic difference in quantity. Mate,you are making assumptions on 70-150 hours and 30 odd hours of facial animation(you may well be right,but you are guessing). Please use facts and do not give in to the hyperbole monster.
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Post by beelzebub on Mar 19, 2017 6:46:51 GMT
Every EA studio works with the same (proprietary) animation toolkit. some people just can't admit that bioware montreal is a bunch of amateurs. literally inexcusable. Those BF1 shots are pre-rendered. The ones in-game are not as nice.
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Post by projectpatdc on Mar 19, 2017 6:57:46 GMT
Battlefield 1 stories are amazing as are the animations. But similar to uncharted 4 or the order 1886, the scenes, dialogue, and animations are far less and very compact compared to Mass Effect Andromeda. Battlefield 1's campaign can be beaten in 8 hours with maybe 1.5-2 hours at most showing any kind of facial animation. Mass Effect Andromeda is 70-150 hours with maybe 30 hours of facial animations and dialogue. That's a drastic difference in quantity. Mate,you are making assumptions on 70-150 hours and 30 odd hours of facial animation(you may well be right,but you are guessing). Please use facts and do not give in to the hyperbole monster. Right but you have to consider the fact that Mass Effect Andromeda has more Dialouge than ME2 and ME3 combined. That's an insane amount compared to any other games ever made. With the insane difference in quantity, I can excuse a dip in quality especially if it's going to be patched. And the 70-150 hours came from those reviewers who have talked about how large the game is. Considering how frequent the dialogue was in ME2 and ME3, 30+hours of dialogue is not a bad guess. gamerant.com/mass-effect-andromeda-dialogue-925/
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2017 7:00:43 GMT
Every EA studio works with the same (proprietary) animation toolkit. some people just can't admit that bioware montreal is a bunch of amateurs. literally inexcusable. Those BF1 shots are pre-rendered. The ones in-game are not as nice. Maybe, here's an ingame bf4 shot (2013) on an older fb version still looks much better (eyes, complexion, etc.)
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Post by mrobnoxiousuk on Mar 19, 2017 7:01:29 GMT
Mate,you are making assumptions on 70-150 hours and 30 odd hours of facial animation(you may well be right,but you are guessing). Please use facts and do not give in to the hyperbole monster. Right but you have to consider the fact that Mass Effect Andromeda has more Dialouge than ME2 and ME3 combined. That's an insane amount compared to any other games ever made. With the insane difference in quantity, I can excuse a dip in quality especially if it's going to be patched. And the 70-150 hours came from those reviewers who have talked about how large the game is. Considering how frequent the dialogue was in ME2 and ME3, 30+hours of dialogue is not a bad guess. gamerant.com/mass-effect-andromeda-dialogue-925/You will excuse me if i no longer believe anything they say in regards to things like that,Mike Gamble boasted about the animation being the very pinnacle of the artistry that is animation.
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Post by projectpatdc on Mar 19, 2017 7:04:14 GMT
Right but you have to consider the fact that Mass Effect Andromeda has more Dialouge than ME2 and ME3 combined. That's an insane amount compared to any other games ever made. With the insane difference in quantity, I can excuse a dip in quality especially if it's going to be patched. And the 70-150 hours came from those reviewers who have talked about how large the game is. Considering how frequent the dialogue was in ME2 and ME3, 30+hours of dialogue is not a bad guess. gamerant.com/mass-effect-andromeda-dialogue-925/You will excuse me if i no longer believe anything they say in regards to things like that,Mike Gamble boasted about the animation being the very pinnacle of the artistry that is animation. Yeah, no worries. I understand that even if the game was the biggest ever made, crap animations are still crap animations for some people. You'll either like the game or not, and both are completely fine.
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Post by MattMan031 on Mar 19, 2017 7:05:36 GMT
Frostbite: BF1 (ingame) facial design: MEA facial design: Every EA studio works with the same (proprietary) animation toolkit. some people just can't admit that bioware montreal is a bunch of amateurs. literally inexcusable. And most people will admit that these are two different studios doing their own thing.
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MattMan031
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Post by MattMan031 on Mar 19, 2017 7:07:32 GMT
I've said it before and I'll say it again: the current situation between BioWare fans.
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mrobnoxiousuk
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Post by mrobnoxiousuk on Mar 19, 2017 7:10:39 GMT
You will excuse me if i no longer believe anything they say in regards to things like that,Mike Gamble boasted about the animation being the very pinnacle of the artistry that is animation. Yeah, no worries. I understand that even if the game was the biggest ever made, crap animations are still crap animations for some people. You'll either like the game or not, and both are completely fine. Size is not always indicative of quality,i can forgive small errors in a video game,we are only human after all,however i am a paying customer and i have a right to expect a certain level of quality,it's not a ridiculously high bar that i set for them to clear but it is there none the less. I had alot of fun playing the early access,but the bugs,animation glitches and weird eyelashes that came away from eyeballs could be jarring at times.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2017 7:17:29 GMT
And most people will admit that these are two different studios doing their own thing. my point is that frostbite is not the limiting factor despite some ignorant claims in this thread.
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Post by projectpatdc on Mar 19, 2017 7:23:14 GMT
Yeah, no worries. I understand that even if the game was the biggest ever made, crap animations are still crap animations for some people. You'll either like the game or not, and both are completely fine. Size is not always indicative of quality,i can forgive small errors in a video game,we are only human after all,however i am a paying customer and i have a right to expect a certain level of quality,it's not a ridiculously high bar that i set for them to clear but it is there none the less. I had alot of fun playing the early access,but the bugs,animation glitches and weird eyelashes that came away from eyeballs could be jarring at times. Ha fair enough. Their baby is beautiful but it has ugly eyes.
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Post by MattMan031 on Mar 19, 2017 7:32:19 GMT
And most people will admit that these are two different studios doing their own thing. my point is that frostbite is not the limiting factor despite some ignorant claims in this thread. Well to be fair I'm still a bit jaded by this tweet a bit more than that. Seriously Origins and the first ME's CC had deeper customization than whatever hell Flynn was on about.
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Post by roseofquartz on Mar 19, 2017 7:44:52 GMT
A few things on this. One, Ethan Ralph is a cunt. Two, he didn't do his homework correctly, and has doubled down on the justification for his work. So honestly, he is perpeuating a witch hunt. Polygon and Kotkau picked up on it and bashed him down, in the process dragging that hashtag into the mix because Ralph has been GG supported for a while now. This is basically the Jennifer Hepler thing all over again, and just more proof some folks had axes to grind. I remember the Hepler incident. Poor woman. I enjoyed her writing too but even if you didn't, that in no way justified the threats sent to her. Honestly, some people are just arseholes.
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Post by BadgerladDK on Mar 19, 2017 7:47:59 GMT
A few things on this. One, Ethan Ralph is a cunt. Two, he didn't do his homework correctly, and has doubled down on the justification for his work. So honestly, he is perpeuating a witch hunt. Polygon and Kotkau picked up on it and bashed him down, in the process dragging that hashtag into the mix because Ralph has been GG supported for a while now. This is basically the Jennifer Hepler thing all over again, and just more proof some folks had axes to grind. I remember the Hepler incident. Poor woman. I enjoyed her writing too but even if you didn't, that in no way justified the threats sent to her. Honestly, some people are just arseholes. Yeah, what a shitshow that was. The ideas that sparked the whole thing were completely terrible, and I'm glad she was a writer and not a gameplay designer, but damned if she didn't get put through the wringer.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2017 7:52:06 GMT
A few things on this. One, Ethan Ralph is a cunt. Two, he didn't do his homework correctly, and has doubled down on the justification for his work. So honestly, he is perpeuating a witch hunt. Polygon and Kotkau picked up on it and bashed him down, in the process dragging that hashtag into the mix because Ralph has been GG supported for a while now. This is basically the Jennifer Hepler thing all over again, and just more proof some folks had axes to grind. I remember the Hepler incident. Poor woman. I enjoyed her writing too but even if you didn't, that in no way justified the threats sent to her. Honestly, some people are just arseholes. She wrote some of my favourite things when it comes to Dragon Age. Her leaving was a huge loss, and she is sorely missed. Again this is why we can't have nice things.
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Post by fenris on Mar 19, 2017 8:02:52 GMT
Am I the only one who's had a problem with the facial animation since DA:I? I mean, in MET and DA2 they had SUCH EXCELLENT FACIAL EXPRESSIONS! I'm not being sarcastic. I LOVED how they did the expressions in DA2 (and to some extent in DA:O) and in the original ME games. I don't know if it's the new engine or what causes this, but their new facial expressions are horrible. The faces are like statues, barely moving. I think Iron-Bull and Dorian are probably the only companions in DA:I that I've seen with anything other than a smile to break their stone faces. All the others had maybe a smile once in a while, which never reached beyond their mouths.
So facial animation problems aren't new to me in newer bioware games. This hasn't changed since DA:I.
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Post by Legenlorn on Mar 19, 2017 9:13:59 GMT
Genuine question here - was this gamergate thing really like this facial dev attack ? I found out about it last year and thought the complaints were legit but reading this thread I get the impression it was another witch hunt.
Also could we refrain from generalisations please? Im pretty sure not 100% of gamers took part in this attack nor 50%. It was just a group of people. We here are gamer so are we responsible as well? No. Just keep that in mind. Thx
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Post by roseofquartz on Mar 19, 2017 9:54:19 GMT
I remember the Hepler incident. Poor woman. I enjoyed her writing too but even if you didn't, that in no way justified the threats sent to her. Honestly, some people are just arseholes. Yeah, what a shitshow that was. The ideas that sparked the whole thing were completely terrible, and I'm glad she was a writer and not a gameplay designer, but damned if she didn't get put through the wringer. Her idea wasn't a terrible one, it was just one a lot of gamers don't like hearing. God forbid you add a feature/mechanic that would make your product easier/more accessible to those who do not have the skill or interest that 'real gamers' have. Not what the topic is about, but to relate, i honestly don't think 'one person' is to blame for animation. Lack of resources/funding could easily chalk up to it, so that's a collective problem. And let's face it, EA hasn't been the best company in the world.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 19, 2017 11:36:50 GMT
Honestly you'd think people would do a quick search for these details online. You'd also think people would attack the end product itself rather than an individual. But I guess harassing someone and immediately blaming some form of positive discrimination appears to be a far more productive means of getting your criticism across in a meaningful way. For some reason. This one went downhill pretty fast, even by internet standards. implying there is such a thing as positive discrimination...lol
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Post by SofaJockey on Mar 19, 2017 11:53:26 GMT
No wonder BioWare has a 'War Room' in their office ahead of launch... I'll be pleased when the full reviews drop. (can't remember exactly what time, tonight or in the morning?)
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Post by FireAndBlood on Mar 19, 2017 11:57:18 GMT
Am I the only one who's had a problem with the facial animation since DA:I? I mean, in MET and DA2 they had SUCH EXCELLENT FACIAL EXPRESSIONS! I'm not being sarcastic. I LOVED how they did the expressions in DA2 (and to some extent in DA:O) and in the original ME games. I don't know if it's the new engine or what causes this, but their new facial expressions are horrible. The faces are like statues, barely moving. I think Iron-Bull and Dorian are probably the only companions in DA:I that I've seen with anything other than a smile to break their stone faces. All the others had maybe a smile once in a while, which never reached beyond their mouths. So facial animation problems aren't new to me in newer bioware games. This hasn't changed since DA:I. I agree, people didn't notice how bad DAI facial animations were due the games stylized art direction, MEA on the other hand is going for a photo realistic look which makes the bad facial animations stand out more along with the poor skin and hair texture.
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Post by tziwen on Mar 19, 2017 12:18:39 GMT
That's internet: Giving the opportunity to uneducatedd people to comment on those subjects.
I don't know Jack and i'm not educated on matters such as cuisine and physics for exemple. But since i've the internet i say what i believe as fact and make people as ignorant as i am agree with me! Wonderfull
A Lead facial animation has to work with a specific tool, a team, budget, deadlines, presure, a game director, a producer, a creative director. He or she may have to compromise so much and rush things so badly... Whatever the qualifications and talent.
It seems you guys ignore how it is in real life. I'm surprised. Compagnies are looking for something acceptable or cheap. Not top notch or even good. And don't throw me the witcher 3: Bigger budget, huge downgrade, they cut fees on the world creation and character design (thanks you lovely novelist) fewer important character models (only one mâin face avaiillable for the the hero) and so many patches at launch... Jeeeeez.
What costs the most in a videogame development: It's the story and the characters. 2 things the witcher had tje job done for free (thanks the novels once more) so yeah they had more time and budget for facial animations.
Be real guys, be real
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Mar 19, 2017 12:35:18 GMT
Disgusting behaviour and to be honest, expected since so many fucktards are fanning the flames with this shit. If you've jumped on the hate bandwagon and revelled in exciting the riot, you human, you are a blight on galactic purity! Thanks.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Mar 19, 2017 12:42:03 GMT
A few things on this. One, Ethan Ralph is a cunt. Two, he didn't do his homework correctly, and has doubled down on the justification for his work. So honestly, he is perpeuating a witch hunt. Polygon and Kotkau picked up on it and bashed him down, in the process dragging that hashtag into the mix because Ralph has been GG supported for a while now. This is basically the Jennifer Hepler thing all over again, and just more proof some folks had axes to grind. I really wish this hadn't been turned into a witchhunt, but he actually is right about her position. Her twitter bio literally said "Lead Facial Animator for Mass Effect: Andromeda". Was she around long enough to be responsible for the animations we see in the game? Who knows. If she deserves any crap than it should come from her employers, not the internet at large. Now all the complaints about facial animation are going to be ruined by gamergate tier garbage. Exactly. What makes some people on the internet think they have the right to be judge, jury and executioner of people who aren't good at their jobs?
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Mar 19, 2017 12:42:20 GMT
It's ironic how the ones who complain about any form of mediocracy typically are the ones who expect their participation trophies. This doesn't surprise me in the least considering the idiotic riots and protests in my country. Be fucking grateful that you are fortunate enough to even get to play the damn game. There are so many people out there who absolutely sci fi adventures but will never experience anything like Mass Effect mostly because people are unfortunately a product of their environment I cannot make any sense out of this rambling mess. However, don't tell me what to be grateful for; it assumes you know anything about me, which you don't beyond our shared affinity for some Biower products.
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