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Post by Natashina on Mar 21, 2017 22:27:33 GMT
Please use spoiler tags when posting any videos or story details. This is a house rule that's in effect until the 28th. Thanks. Sorry didn't know as there was spoiler tag in the post title. It's all good. Cyonan had requested that mods keep an eye out for that. This will also give the players overseas a chance to play and beat the game before they walk into spoiler land.
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London
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Post by London on Mar 21, 2017 22:31:13 GMT
How about you just post the link to whatever your referencing. Here's what I watched: I'm referencing the sex scene between Gil and Scott. The one you said you'd seen. Edit: Sorry, I replied before your edit. Yeah, this one. Now let's look at it from a logical standpoint. Generally with all sex scene's in BioWare games you're either going to get the ass or the chest. In this one they chose to go with the latter. But holy crap, there are a lot of things going on here that I see nobody talking about. The close up of the hand slowly making its way down the chest and torso, hinting at it going further then back up again. Gil is damn tease.
The friskiness of being pushed up against the wall and then going to the bed. I'll admit that some of the angles for the kissing are awkward, but a lot of the angles in this game are awkward. Still, you do get to see a lot of the kissing not being covered by anything.
We aren't all going to like the same thing. But in my opinion this is a tastefull yet steamy scene without being vulgar. If you don't agree with that then that's all good. But what I would like to know is, and get your opinion on, is what do you think would make this scene better? What do you want to see in a m/m sex scene? RE: Nudity We don't even really get chest. The freeze frame doesn't go any lower. Meanwhile we get long shots of Cora's ass. I haven't watched PeeBees but I hear that one has actual nudity also. I find it odd there is a shot of Scott's ass in Cora's romance but not in any M/M Content.
RE: Steaminess Maybe some people will find patting Scott's chest a few times to be great foreplay or something. Still a stark contrast to the thrusting action Cora gets. Cora / Scott also got carefully animated kisses that are far hotter than the "throw an arm over the mouths" or "face mashing" we get here. In the end Scott/Gil have no real sex scene at all, just patting and oddly animated kiss before fade to black. Again I'm fine you disagree with me. I find Gil's entire arc underwhelming and contrived even outside the romance scene.
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Post by bekyuubi on Mar 21, 2017 22:39:40 GMT
Oooh, it's a movement. I didn't plan on getting the game because the score really bombed on metacritics and I found the normal-looking girls to be incredibly disappointing, but I'm reminded of ME3's ending where the devs actually made improvements to the endings. If Bioware actually caved in to this thread and did something (extensive) about it, I'll get the game.
ME3 miracle again please.
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Post by Natashina on Mar 21, 2017 22:41:41 GMT
This is the thread here on the BSN. There are threads on gamefaqs, NeoGaf, reddit, facebook, tumblr and whatever is closest to threads on Twitter.
If you ask around, someone should have the links.
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Post by Dirk on Mar 21, 2017 22:45:26 GMT
We've been heard guys!! They've had a meeting about the lack of m/m romances! This may seem small but not only are they listening but they are really thinking about how to fix this. Keep your voices loud. Also a reminder to PLEASE PLEASE be respectful to the devs. They won't listen to us if we are rude. And I've thought complaining gets nothing done. I know that there are some people sending letters to Bioware where they calmly and respectfully express their issues with m/m romance. I am going to assume a good faith here from the devs, because they could have just ignored us, but they didn't. Lets see what actions come out of this.
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Post by Natashina on Mar 21, 2017 22:52:32 GMT
It doesn't hurt that I happen to know that Ian is a registered poster and lurks on this site. He's the real deal too, and he does post occasionally. Anyone that shows up claiming to be a BW dev goes through a bit of a confirmation process. Sofa and Cyonan take care of it. It's why I always encourage civility towards the devs, no matter the level of frustration any of us are going through. We have some that lurk here, even though most rarely ever post.
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commandercryptarch
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: DFMelancholine
XBL Gamertag: dfmelancholine
PSN: DFMelancholine
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Post by commandercryptarch on Mar 21, 2017 23:08:24 GMT
...All I wanted was an asexual,cute and awkward romance/flirt with my Salarian pilot:(
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Post by zeowik on Mar 22, 2017 6:06:30 GMT
It doesn't hurt that I happen to know that Ian is a registered poster and lurks on this site. He's the real deal too, and he does post occasionally. Anyone that shows up claiming to be a BW dev goes through a bit of a confirmation process. Sofa and Cyonan take care of it. It's why I always encourage civility towards the devs, no matter the level of frustration any of us are going through. We have some that lurk here, even though most rarely ever post. I can't help but think they had to have known this would not go so well on this front. Perhaps not how strongly. It's just puzzling he even participated in the baiting hyping up Jaal so much when it would have been trivial to just shut down the false hope. My pendulum of hope/bitterness on the hope side of things wonders if they knew they screwed up a couple months ago and planned to say/do something after the explosion at release. Then again they did seem to think the "has to make sense" thing with sexual orientation for some reason having to be central to a character that isn't straight might show they just had no clue. Either way I'm glad they acknowledged it. Now it only remains to be seen what they do, if anything.
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Stay strong and queer!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy
Origin: Vythandal
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Post by Vy on Mar 22, 2017 6:19:12 GMT
Putting together a letter now. Would anyone here mind giving it a once-over after I've gone through a few drafts?
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ruffian
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Post by ruffian on Mar 22, 2017 6:41:38 GMT
The problem really comes down to a lack of quality. I think more people (Not all, of course. IMO the lack of an M/M option on the squad still wouldn't be acceptable.) would be fine with the current situation if it wasn't so obvious that less care was put into the M/M romances. Both Gil and Reyes look like any NPC you can find walking around. The 'crewmates recieved just as much care as the squadmates!' argument sort of falls apart when you realize that the non-squadmate romances are the only ones that recieved this treatment. Gil's romance is almost just as much about his female friend as it is about him, and feels rushed and not very well-thought-out. Reyes romance is IMO a little bit better, but never really goes anywhere. The M/M romances just kind of feel like an afterthought, and that's a problem.
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Post by Natashina on Mar 22, 2017 8:30:02 GMT
Putting together a letter now. Would anyone here mind giving it a once-over after I've gone through a few drafts? Sorry I didn't catch this sooner, but I'm happy to do so.
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leadintea
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Baldur's Gate
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Post by leadintea on Mar 22, 2017 8:59:46 GMT
Well... I'm disappointed, but I can't say I'm surprised. The ME team has always catered more to straight guys, and the team apparently has a 'bro' culture mentality, which, I think, explains their aversion to M/M romances. Personally, I don't really care that much about this situation, but I do think it's rather skeevy of them to force gay players to have a straight romance to get an achievement, whereas everyone else doesn't have such a restriction.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by Dirk on Mar 22, 2017 10:40:55 GMT
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Posts: 521 Likes: 1,571
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Post by Frhozen on Mar 22, 2017 10:42:57 GMT
I'm currently writing an email to Jim Sterling. Would be great if he talked about this in one of his Jimquisition videos.
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Post by flog61 on Mar 22, 2017 11:19:52 GMT
I'm currently writing an email to Jim Sterling. Would be great if he talked about this in one of his Jimquisition videos. Fab idea!
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Posts: 521 Likes: 1,571
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Post by Frhozen on Mar 22, 2017 12:15:48 GMT
FFS. My email program seems to have messed up the formatting while sending it to him (it basically merged all the paragraphs into a single huge one). Made the thing very difficult to read so I had to send it again. Hopefully he doesn't think it's spam or sth when he sees two consecutive emails with almost the same title :/.
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Wulfram
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Origin: wulfram77
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Post by Wulfram on Mar 22, 2017 12:49:11 GMT
If Bioware wanted to address this is ME:A, what would be the best course? Should they make Jaal bisexual, or would that be too much of a retcon if done now? Work on expanding and improving the existing romances? Add a new romance, which would realistically I think have to not be a companion?
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Post by farfarello on Mar 22, 2017 12:56:33 GMT
So, I just got over the whole animation thing when it was made clear that Jaal is not a romance option for my planned male Ryder playthrough. Of course then I had to spoil myselft and watch all the romances on youtube.
The Gil/ScottRyder romance is cute but thats all I'm feeling there, reminds me of the Josephine-romance in DA:Inquisition.
ScottRyder/Reyes seems to be fun and sexy and I think they have a great dynamic (mainly because of their voice-actors), also Reyes seems to be a very passionate guy and there would have been a lot of potential for more then a few kisses.
This is all very sad especially when you compare them to the Cora and Peebee romance.
Why can't Scott have Jaal?! WHY?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 521 Likes: 1,571
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Post by Frhozen on Mar 22, 2017 13:10:43 GMT
If Bioware wanted to address this is ME:A, what would be the best course? Should they make Jaal bisexual, or would that be too much of a retcon if done now? Work on expanding and improving the existing romances? Add a new romance, which would realistically I think have to not be a companion? First off, I wouldn't expect too much. Chances are they won't actually address it in any significant or meaningful way. But how could they do that if they wanted to? People seem to have differing opinions on the whole making Jaal bi thing. I personally think that it'd be okay if he was originally supposed to be bi and was written with that in mind but not so much if he was written as a 100% straight character but I've heard others say that they wouldn't want it to happen either way because it could set a bad precedent for retroactively changing characters' orientations and I can't say I entirely disagree with that point. Other than that, fleshing out the existing M/M romances would certainly be a good step, particularly adding properly animated sex scenes like some of the non-M/M romances have. Also, giving them unique faces would be great IMO but it could also upset people who like or have gotten used to the current ones. None of that really solves the big issue of there not being a gay/bi male squadmate, though, and that's a problem they probably can't solve because even if they added in a new squadmate now, he'd probably just feel tagged-on and wouldn't have the same kind of main story integration that other squadmates have. One possible option could be, if they release some story DLC, to introduce a new squadmate who's heavily integrated into that DLC's story and make him an M/M LI. But again, I wouldn't count on any of these things happening.
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Post by sevalaricgirl on Mar 22, 2017 13:48:45 GMT
Anyone think about it this way....
Straight men have 5 options, including 3 squadmates. (Usually played by straight male gamers)
Gay women have 4, possibly 5, including 2 squadmates. (Usually played by straight male gamers and some females)
Straight women have 3, including 2 squadmates. (Usually played by straight female gamers)
Gay men have 2, including 0 squadmates. (Usually played by gay male gamers)
So who is getting the kudos, the straight male games. Who's getting screwed gay male gbamers and straight female gamers and as I said before, I'll gladly give the gay guys Liam because honestly yikes.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 521 Likes: 1,571
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Post by Frhozen on Mar 22, 2017 13:55:54 GMT
Is it so unusual for female players to do M/M romances? Perhaps not so commonly on their first playthrough but still.
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Post by sevalaricgirl on Mar 22, 2017 14:07:58 GMT
Is it so unusual for female players to do M/M romances? Perhaps not so commonly on their first playthrough but still. Most females I know who play males don't do male/male romances. They do it so they can play male/female romances. They only time they play male/male is because in DAI Doruan was awesome. Honestly, all the romances in Andromeda are underwhelming. My head canon straight female Ryder is interested in Carlyle which I was hoping to get but didn't so she will not be romancing anyone. Jaal doesn't come close to Garrus. Liam is another Jacob, go figure. And yes, I did watch the romances and I am currently playing the game.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 22, 2017 14:24:50 GMT
Is it so unusual for female players to do M/M romances? Perhaps not so commonly on their first playthrough but still. Not unusual for me. I can only speak for myself, but it comes down to several factors. Whether I like a character is paramount. I'm not of the type to play out a romance "just because" or to "see them all" or "because everyone says it's great" and so on. If I don't like a character, or have any interest in them in that way, then I'm not going to romance them. The gender of the character doesn't matter to me. It so happens that, as I'm straight, I typically do go for guys. I never had an interest in Leliana, Morrigan, Merrill, Josephine, or Sera; I did do Isabela's romance, but it was "just okay." I like Cassandra quite a bit, but because Dorian exists, I have ever done her romance, in addition to the fact that her romance style, heavy on the "romance," is just not appealing to me. So, this leaves me primarily with straight and bi guys. NONE of the other male romances in DAI interested me, and I did play Cullen's on my first go 'round. I made a male character in DAI specifically to romance Dorian, because he's great; this is now my canon Inquisitor and romance for him. The process led me to discover that I have an easier time in RPing a male character, as I tend to do more of a "self insert" with a female one. I am seriously considering switching over to male as my default gender in these games. So that now leaves me with gay and bi guys. All of that aside, I think that the single gender orientations should be, more or less, designed for players of that type. If I, as a straight woman, like a particular m/m romance, that's nice and all, but I do think they should be designed for gay male players. The same is true for the lesbian romances. Of course, that's not to say that a m/m romance designed for the gay male player can't have its share of sap and sweetness; to deny that some men enjoy that would be a disservice to them.
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Post by farfarello on Mar 22, 2017 14:30:38 GMT
Is it so unusual for female players to do M/M romances? Perhaps not so commonly on their first playthrough but still. No its not. I got into Bioware Games years ago because I saw the gay romance with Zevran (Dragon Age Origins) on youtube and I was like wow a gay romace in a video game never had that before. And Bioware must be awesome that they dare to do something like this. Of course I fell in love with the story, characters and gameplay and always looked forward to the next games and I haven't been disappointed till now. I always do multiple playthroughs as male and female. Male mostly for the gay romance. As female I usually pick who I like best as a character if possible.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 521 Likes: 1,571
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Post by Frhozen on Mar 22, 2017 14:33:20 GMT
All of that aside, I think that the single gender orientations should be, more or less, designed for players of that type. If I, as a straight woman, like a particular m/m romance, that's nice and all, but I do think they should be designed for gay male players. The same is true for the lesbian romances. Of course, that's not to say that a m/m romance designed for the gay male player can't have its share of sap and sweetness; to deny that some men enjoy that would be a disservice to them. Yeah, I agree with all of that !
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