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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 17:13:16 GMT
The problem isn't even the missing achievement in the first place. This could be changed relatively easily by reducing the default task from 3 to 2 love interests. But that does not solve the problem that the m/m romances have less depth, bad kiss scenes, no real sex and no face model and that we have no single alien and squadmate.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 23, 2017 17:21:54 GMT
This is rather missing the point that not everyone wants to romance outside of their own sexuality (as the player). Of course gay players can make multiple characters, just like everyone else; they can romance Jaal on a femRyder, but that should not be a requirement for an achievement when that is not the case for others. Gay players should not have to jump trough those hoops. Everyone should have to jump through hoops it's an achievement that implies you need to earn it...I need to learn how to play better if I ever want to beat it on insane. That is pretty hard for me... it shouldnt all have to be perfectly catered its okayto roleplay a bit and I played 1,2 and 3 and the sex scenes were never nearly as risqué as dragon age so you don't even have to be as nervous about that.... Can you really not understand that the straight players do NOT have to romance outside of their sexuality for this? THEY do not have to jump through hoops. That is why it is a problem. If I were going to be playing MEA I wouldn't be earning the achievement either way, as I tend to pick a LI and stick with them across multiple plays. It doesn't actually affect me. But it does affect all of the gay players who do want to go for the achievement and are expected to romance outside of their sexuality. I have no idea what your remark about the sex scenes has to do with anything. We're not talking about the ME trilogy or DA games, we're talking about MEA, where two of the sex scenes involving women are practically porn, the most graphic sex scenes across both franchises to date.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 17:25:47 GMT
Well I didn't know that the scenes were that bad because I've been avoiding the spoiler section, and I was just trying to make you feel better by pointing out that everyone has to jump through hoops to get all the achievements because he whole point is working for them not just being given them
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 23, 2017 17:33:33 GMT
Again, the straight players do not have to romance outside their sexuality.
I'll just keep repeating it until you acknowledge it.
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Post by vertigomez on Mar 23, 2017 17:47:09 GMT
Just leaving this here. Confused what those ME News tweets meant. The Mass Effect news twitter posted a link to a DLC survey to see what people would be interest in, and a bunch of people evidently wrote in that they wanted a "bi patch" to make more LIs bi-sexual. Strictly speaking I'm not against such a patch, but I would hope that it did more than just that as the main feature of the patch. The game is in such a state of disarray from a technical standpoint right now that they need those fixes in there too. Apparently somebody also wrote in "if this is the future of Mass Effect just stop making them" which is just petty. If anybody wants to fill out the form you can find it here: docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdUNy7DhsFINgOW2A7V0rk_fVUHDp_OCvCOw2bsEFwjOpLcVg/viewformYou'll need a Google account to fill it out(since it's on Google Docs), but it includes an option for "other" as well as a text field so you can fill in exactly what you mean by other. So if you want more romance content, you can let them know there.
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Post by Artemis on Mar 23, 2017 17:47:13 GMT
BTW: What preset did you use for your avatar? He looks quite great and I don't think it's either preset 1 or 4? It was six, took a lot of work tho. If I can get him onto that archive site I will but it hasn't worked for me so far. Preset six works best for young cute Ryder, but sadly he has the WORST wrinkles/pock marks when he smiles/makes faces in cut scenes :| You really can make a cute Ryder though; here's mind: LINKGreat thread. I have tweeted out links to two LONG messages from gay fans about the unequal treatment of gay male fans in ME:A, although that was before the #MakeJaalBi hashtag came into effect. However, that hashtag I think has become the unofficial stand bearer, so we're a bit stuck with it. You can use the hashtag to become part of the conversation and simply link to a longer explanation. (This is probably going to be such an outdated response now because I got interrupted in the middle of it and went to lunch >.<)
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Post by mikeymoonshine on Mar 23, 2017 20:26:08 GMT
It was six, took a lot of work tho. If I can get him onto that archive site I will but it hasn't worked for me so far. Preset six works best for young cute Ryder, but sadly he has the WORST wrinkles/pock marks when he smiles/makes faces in cut scenes :| You really can make a cute Ryder though; here's mind: LINKThis is true he does have a bunch of wrinkles sometimes when he smiles in cutscenes, tho it doesn't happen very often like it's not every time he smiles. I'm not an expert on how this stuff works but I think for the more cinematic scenes more detailed textures are loaded or something? Cos for those he looks fine whatever expression he makes but yeah in a few of them he gets crows feet and facial lines lol which looks bad.
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Post by duskwanderer on Mar 23, 2017 20:39:21 GMT
Did you even see the topic you're a part of. That's all this is. That's what the complaining of Jaal is all about. I'd say you haven't been paying attention. And the part about Cora's hair...wow. You actually said that. What have you been listening to? I've yet to hear a single person say that. Dude, the 'Feminist haircut SJW Cora' stuff has been all over reddit, youtube and this very forum. Either your speaking with little experience of what's been going on or you're feigning ignorance in an attempt to devalue the issues we have. Oh, I've heard of it. But what I've heard was "That hairstyle is for lesbians and non-traditionals! How dare this straight (censored) take it!" But I understand. You don't want to admit your side is raising hysteria over a trivial issue. I would do it too, in your place.
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Post by duskwanderer on Mar 23, 2017 20:40:10 GMT
Did you even see the topic you're a part of. That's all this is. That's what the complaining of Jaal is all about. I'd say you haven't been paying attention. And the part about Cora's hair...wow. You actually said that. What have you been listening to? I've yet to hear a single person say that. Complaining about Jaal is complaining about lacking game feature. Game feature "romance" is lacking in m/m romances in both numbers and animation quality compared to m/f romances for example. It's not Pokemon. You don't "gotta catch `em all!"
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Post by duskwanderer on Mar 23, 2017 20:43:05 GMT
Did you even see the topic you're a part of. That's all this is. That's what the complaining of Jaal is all about. I'd say you haven't been paying attention. And the part about Cora's hair...wow. You actually said that. What have you been listening to? I've yet to hear a single person say that. I haven't been paying attention? Go to any of the numerous "the women are all ugly" threads that we had here. There were lots of complaints about her "feminist hair". I've seen those. That has nothing to do with what we are discussing. Saying that Cora is ugly does not preclude the fact that SJW's are upset a straight woman has a certain hairstyle.
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Post by Panda on Mar 23, 2017 20:44:42 GMT
Complaining about Jaal is complaining about lacking game feature. Game feature "romance" is lacking in m/m romances in both numbers and animation quality compared to m/f romances for example. It's not Pokemon. You don't "gotta catch `em all!" Usually you don't though devs added some polyamorous options I think. Usually you just catch one that has good content. There wasn't one this time in m/m romances, that's the problem.
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Post by London on Mar 23, 2017 20:52:54 GMT
I haven't been paying attention? Go to any of the numerous "the women are all ugly" threads that we had here. There were lots of complaints about her "feminist hair". I've seen those. That has nothing to do with what we are discussing. Saying that Cora is ugly does not preclude the fact that SJW's are upset a straight woman has a certain hairstyle. You literally said one post before, in this very chain, that you've never seen this. I have seen people interested in Cora for F/F option but I haven't seen anyone in that group conclude that her hairstyle makes her a lesbian. I have seen people in the other camp do so.
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Post by flog61 on Mar 23, 2017 20:53:42 GMT
Dude, the 'Feminist haircut SJW Cora' stuff has been all over reddit, youtube and this very forum. Either your speaking with little experience of what's been going on or you're feigning ignorance in an attempt to devalue the issues we have. Oh, I've heard of it. But what I've heard was "That hairstyle is for lesbians and non-traditionals! How dare this straight (censored) take it!" But I understand. You don't want to admit your side is raising hysteria over a trivial issue. I would do it too, in your place. Oh my gosh, you seriously think the complaints over Cora's haircut were gays angry that she stole their haircut? For the love of... Also the fact that you're calling it my 'side' shows how childish your conception of the situation is. There are no sides, it's not you vs the gays.
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Post by London on Mar 23, 2017 20:54:34 GMT
Oh, I've heard of it. But what I've heard was "That hairstyle is for lesbians and non-traditionals! How dare this straight (censored) take it!" But I understand. You don't want to admit your side is raising hysteria over a trivial issue. I would do it too, in your place. Oh my gosh, you seriously think the complaints over Cora's haircut were gays anry that she stole their haircut? For the love of... Also the fact that you're calling it my 'side' shows how childish your conception of the situation is. There are no sides, it's not you vs the gays. How you summarized this literally made me laugh. So true.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Mar 23, 2017 21:36:41 GMT
There are no sides, it's not you vs the gays. Words to live by, for everybody on this issue. It's not "straights vs gays" or even "gays vs BioWare" and it's certainly not "SJWs vs anti-SJWs". A portion of the fanbase is unhappy with the romance options given to them and would like to express some grievances about that to the developers. The best way to do that is through calm, collected discourse, organization, planning and execution through the proper channels. Debate about the validity of said grievances can occur, but don't draw lines in the sand over it and certainly don't let things get personal or rule-breaking. Disagreement is not a fight and there need not be "winners" or "losers". Just a friendly reminder/suggestion.
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Post by duskwanderer on Mar 23, 2017 21:57:07 GMT
It's not Pokemon. You don't "gotta catch `em all!" Usually you don't though devs added some polyamorous options I think. Usually you just catch one that has good content. There wasn't one this time in m/m romances, that's the problem. Not liking something is not the same as not having it. I think this is what I mean when I say that people will never be satisfied.
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Post by duskwanderer on Mar 23, 2017 21:58:42 GMT
I've seen those. That has nothing to do with what we are discussing. Saying that Cora is ugly does not preclude the fact that SJW's are upset a straight woman has a certain hairstyle. You literally said one post before, in this very chain, that you've never seen this. I have seen people interested in Cora for F/F option but I haven't seen anyone in that group conclude that her hairstyle makes her a lesbian. I have seen people in the other camp do so. Then you haven't been paying attention. Maybe you don't wish to. It's true, I hadn't seen it before. So I looked and took a read. It doesn't change anything. A complaint that Cora is ugly has nothing to do with the fact that lesbians whine about a straight woman having that hairstyle.
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Post by duskwanderer on Mar 23, 2017 22:02:40 GMT
Oh, I've heard of it. But what I've heard was "That hairstyle is for lesbians and non-traditionals! How dare this straight (censored) take it!" But I understand. You don't want to admit your side is raising hysteria over a trivial issue. I would do it too, in your place. Oh my gosh, you seriously think the complaints over Cora's haircut were gays angry that she stole their haircut? For the love of... Also the fact that you're calling it my 'side' shows how childish your conception of the situation is. There are no sides, it's not you vs the gays. That's what they've been saying. I find it as silly as those college rants about white women wearing hoop earrings. And there is a side, just not how you framed it. There are those who say there is a legitimate grievance, and there are those who say it is not. It is not a legitimate grievance to complain that you can't get an achievement by playing a solely gay person. If you want to get an achievement, sometimes you have to do things you wouldn't normally do. Check any Valve game. Did you complain when people who didn't like any romance option couldn't get the achievement? I doubt it.
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Post by Dirk on Mar 23, 2017 22:10:29 GMT
It's not Pokemon. You don't "gotta catch `em all!" Usually you don't though devs added some polyamorous options I think. Usually you just catch one that has good content. There wasn't one this time in m/m romances, that's the problem. Yep. I think how m/m romance in ME:A lacks both quantity and quality has been discussed in length in the romance thread. So I guess I'll make a list - 2 for m/m options, while there are 5 for m/f, 4 for f/f, and 3 for f/m. - Lesser number of flirts and dialogues with Gil. Gil does not have much content. - Fade-to-blace and non-explicit scene for Gil. Non-explicit scene for Reyes. The opposite is the case for Cora, Peebee, and Jaal (no m/m here). - Poor animation quality of Scott/Reyes romance scene, compared to Sara/Reyes. - No m/m options on squad mates. - The whole space baby thing with Gil.
- The achievement requires 3 romance, while there are only 2 m/m options. I probably miss some concerns here but I am too tired to dig into hundreds of pages in the romance thread.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 22:15:04 GMT
Usually you don't though devs added some polyamorous options I think. Usually you just catch one that has good content. There wasn't one this time in m/m romances, that's the problem. Yep. I think how m/m romance in ME:A lacks both quantity and quality has been discussed in length in the romance thread. So I guess I'll make a list - 2 for m/m options, while there are 5 for m/f, 4 for f/f, and 3 for f/m. - Lesser number of flirts and dialogues with Gil. Gil does not have much content. - Fade-to-blace and non-explicit scene for Gil. Non-explicit scene for Reyes. The opposite is the case for Cora, Peebee, and Jaal (no m/m here). - Poor animation quality of Scott/Reyes romance scene, compared to Sara/Reyes. - No m/m options on squad mates. - The whole space baby thing with Gil.
- The achievement requires 3 romance, while there are only 2 m/m options. I probably miss some concerns here but I am too tired to dig into hundreds of pages in the romance thread. and no alien romance again : ( oh and no face model...both Reyes and Gil look like they've been created with the character editor.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 23, 2017 22:16:17 GMT
Oh my gosh, you seriously think the complaints over Cora's haircut were gays angry that she stole their haircut? For the love of... Also the fact that you're calling it my 'side' shows how childish your conception of the situation is. There are no sides, it's not you vs the gays. That's what they've been saying. I find it as silly as those college rants about white women wearing hoop earrings. And there is a side, just not how you framed it. There are those who say there is a legitimate grievance, and there are those who say it is not. It is not a legitimate grievance to complain that you can't get an achievement by playing a solely gay person. If you want to get an achievement, sometimes you have to do things you wouldn't normally do. Check any Valve game. Did you complain when people who didn't like any romance option couldn't get the achievement? I doubt it. The problem isn't that the number for the achievement exists, it's that straight players do not have to play outside their sexuality to get it.
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Post by zeowik on Mar 23, 2017 22:22:08 GMT
Usually you don't though devs added some polyamorous options I think. Usually you just catch one that has good content. There wasn't one this time in m/m romances, that's the problem. Not liking something is not the same as not having it. I think this is what I mean when I say that people will never be satisfied. Jaal's files suggest he was going to be bi but even despite that they promised you could find out quickly and be told by the NPC they aren't interested. They lied. Gil has a character editor face that is a fact. There are no squad m/m potential romance interests. That is a fact. Sex scenes are exclusively in places that may titillate straight males and incidentally straight women and lesbians. Male nudity is played for laughs which is fine but it puts a spotlight on the disparity. They strung people along teasing Jaal on Twitter for months both male and female devs. That teasing combined with the lie about being turned down early after meeting NPCs is ridiculous. You should at least acknowledge there is more to this considering the facts.
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Post by Vicex on Mar 23, 2017 22:34:34 GMT
I hate to be 'that guy', but someone needs to point out that developing the scenes would take considerable resources and time, and with an (arguably) smaller percentage of the game's population participating in in a certain romance option, it doesn't make much fiscal sense to animate it all.
Hell, look at Peebee's romance... there is no difference between Male and Female Ryder.
Bioware was clearly struggling for time as it was and looking for places to cut corners, and while it may upset some... let's call them 'less understanding people', they made the right choice to cut them and put effort into other areas of the game that clearly needed it and still need it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 22:35:49 GMT
How high do you think are the chances that they'll fix this problem? I just can't imagine them to give us a further option...I even doubt that they give us Jaal. But I know I can only play the game again if they'll do something against it... : / I don't like Gil...I just don't feel him... when I met him I immediatly got that NPC vibe from him. All I want is an alien squadmate with a unique face that I can take on missions. Is it too much to ask? : (
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Post by Vy on Mar 23, 2017 22:39:11 GMT
How high do you think are the chances that they'll fix this problem? I just can't imagine them to give us a further option...I even doubt that they give us Jaal. But I know I can only play the game again if they'll do something against it... : / I don't like Gil...I just don't feel him... when I met him I immediatly got that NPC vibe from him. All I want is an alien squadmate with a unique face that I can take on missions. Is it too much to ask? : ( Chances of any sort of acknowledgement beyond a passive-aggressive apology are really low. Doesn't hurt to push for better, though. Apparently, yes, it is too much to ask.
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