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Post by commandercole5 on Mar 23, 2017 22:42:34 GMT
I like that the Jaal thing is trending on twitter right now, keep it that way
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 22:46:51 GMT
How high do you think are the chances that they'll fix this problem? I just can't imagine them to give us a further option...I even doubt that they give us Jaal. But I know I can only play the game again if they'll do something against it... : / I don't like Gil...I just don't feel him... when I met him I immediatly got that NPC vibe from him. All I want is an alien squadmate with a unique face that I can take on missions. Is it too much to ask? : ( Chances of any sort of acknowledgement beyond a passive-aggressive apology are really low. Doesn't hurt to push for better, though. Apparently, yes, it is too much to ask. After Ians statement on twitter I really hoped they'll do something against it... but the only thing they would possibly do is give us a further romance option with a character from a DLC ... But that would probably be just a little romance with less content again.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 22:53:09 GMT
DLC romance-unless it's a free new squad member that's relevant and available at least as soon as Jaal-would not be a good solution at all. It would also have to have content on par with Cora/Peebee/Jaal. I can't see how anything else would actually fix the situation.
The easiest fix is to make Jaal bi, as to my knowledge he's the one romance option that didn't actually turn down Scott, unless I missed info somewhere? (All I've seen is there's just not a turn down moment at all)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 22:54:50 GMT
DLC romance-unless it's a free new squad member that's relevant and available at least as soon as Jaal-would not be a good solution at all. It would also have to have content on par with Cora/Peebee/Jaal. I can't see how anything else would actually fix the situation. The easiest fix is to make Jaal bi, as to my knowledge he's the one romance option that didn't actually turn down Scott, unless I missed info somewhere? (All I've seen is there's just not a turn down moment at all)And since we already have humans it would also be our first alien... I would appreciate it very much.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 23, 2017 23:05:04 GMT
I hate to be 'that guy', but someone needs to point out that developing the scenes would take considerable resources and time, and with an (arguably) smaller percentage of the game's population participating in in a certain romance option, it doesn't make much fiscal sense to animate it all. Hell, look at Peebee's romance... there is no difference between Male and Female Ryder. Bioware was clearly struggling for time as it was and looking for places to cut corners, and while it may upset some... let's call them 'less understanding people', they made the right choice to cut them and put effort into other areas of the game that clearly needed it and still need it. If they hadn't made the Cora and PeeBee scenes so graphic in the first place then it wouldn't be a problem. The issue is that a ton of work went into those scenes. They could have instead dialed those scenes down and spread the cinematic love around. But they didn't. They chose to target a specific audience and it is VERY clear who that audience is.
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Post by Dirk on Mar 23, 2017 23:05:18 GMT
DLC romance-unless it's a free new squad member that's relevant and available at least as soon as Jaal-would not be a good solution at all. It would also have to have content on par with Cora/Peebee/Jaal. I can't see how anything else would actually fix the situation. The easiest fix is to make Jaal bi, as to my knowledge he's the one romance option that didn't actually turn down Scott, unless I missed info somewhere? (All I've seen is there's just not a turn down moment at all)I think it depends on how many lines Scott/Jaal romance have been recorded.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 23:08:10 GMT
DLC romance-unless it's a free new squad member that's relevant and available at least as soon as Jaal-would not be a good solution at all. It would also have to have content on par with Cora/Peebee/Jaal. I can't see how anything else would actually fix the situation. The easiest fix is to make Jaal bi, as to my knowledge he's the one romance option that didn't actually turn down Scott, unless I missed info somewhere? (All I've seen is there's just not a turn down moment at all)I think it depends on how many lines Scott/Jaal romance have been recorded. Either way it's easier to work with a character that's already in the game then to some how try to build a place for a whole new character on the squad. That was all I meant by easiest.
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Post by Dirk on Mar 23, 2017 23:09:37 GMT
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Post by flog61 on Mar 23, 2017 23:13:33 GMT
^ I wished they focused more on the actual issue - that there aren't enough romances for gay men, and the ones that exist are lower quality in some areas. Not that we specifically can't romance Jaal.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 23:21:03 GMT
^ I wished they focused more on the actual issue - that there aren't enough romances for gay men, and the ones that exist are lower quality in some areas. Not that we specifically can't romance Jaal. I know what you mean but I think Jaal has the highest chance to get included...they wouldn't create a new companion for gays with the same amount of content as the other squadmates have....Jaal already has his content, so it would be less work for them. I just think it's the most realistic possibility. And I'd prefer this to a minor DLC character.
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Post by Vicex on Mar 23, 2017 23:30:00 GMT
I hate to be 'that guy', but someone needs to point out that developing the scenes would take considerable resources and time, and with an (arguably) smaller percentage of the game's population participating in in a certain romance option, it doesn't make much fiscal sense to animate it all. Hell, look at Peebee's romance... there is no difference between Male and Female Ryder. Bioware was clearly struggling for time as it was and looking for places to cut corners, and while it may upset some... let's call them 'less understanding people', they made the right choice to cut them and put effort into other areas of the game that clearly needed it and still need it. If they hadn't made the Cora and PeeBee scenes so graphic in the first place then it wouldn't be a problem. The issue is that a ton of work went into those scenes. They could have instead dialed those scenes down and spread the cinematic love around. But they didn't. They chose to target a specific audience and it is VERY clear who that audience is. And the problem of business catering to the largest number of potential consumers is...? Sure- it might not be fair, but again.. it's not about what's fair- in the end, it's all about time and money, and Bioware/EA came to the conclusion that they could not justify the time or money to create scenes like that for every character. Better to make an 'improvement' that most players will see/enjoy (according to the developers) rather than just leave it when they clearly felt it was subpar. It's fine to be upset, but to be on a crusade over this is a bit ridiculous. You have to take into account Bioware probably did;t do this out of malice, but out of necessity due to finite time and resources. Edit: What you suggest Bioware to have done would be like having a European Car manufacture (that exclusively ships to Europe) spend the same amount of money and time developing an automatic version of a car as a manual version- despite the fact that far fewer people will use the automatic version. It just makes no sense for a company to do that, when they could invest more in perfecting the manual version that will be used far more often.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 23, 2017 23:47:40 GMT
^ The counter to that are DAI's scenes, where there was a variety, designed to fit the LI and their romance, and everyone*, including gay men, got something.
* Minus Josephine and Solas, but again "designed to fit their romances."
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Post by Artemis on Mar 23, 2017 23:49:15 GMT
^ I wished they focused more on the actual issue - that there aren't enough romances for gay men, and the ones that exist are lower quality in some areas. Not that we specifically can't romance Jaal. I tweeted the author and asked him if he misrepresented the situation purposefully or if it was accidental.
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Post by vertigomez on Mar 23, 2017 23:55:29 GMT
If they hadn't made the Cora and PeeBee scenes so graphic in the first place then it wouldn't be a problem. The issue is that a ton of work went into those scenes. They could have instead dialed those scenes down and spread the cinematic love around. But they didn't. They chose to target a specific audience and it is VERY clear who that audience is. And the problem of business catering to the largest number of potential consumers is...? Sure- it might not be fair, but again.. it's not about what's fair- in the end, it's all about time and money, and Bioware/EA came to the conclusion that they could not justify the time or money to create scenes like that for every character. Better to make an 'improvement' that most players will see/enjoy (according to the developers) rather than just leave it when they clearly felt it was subpar. It's fine to be upset, but to be on a crusade over this is a bit ridiculous. You have to take into account Bioware probably did;t do this out of malice, but out of necessity due to finite time and resources. Edit: What you suggest Bioware to have done would be like having a European Car manufacture (that exclusively ships to Europe) spend the same amount of money and time developing an automatic version of a car as a manual version- despite the fact that far fewer people will use the automatic version. It just makes no sense for a company to do that, when they could invest more in perfecting the manual version that will be used far more often. The majority has no inherent “right” to get more options than anyone else. Bioware set a certain standard. We're just asking them to maintain it and respect their fanbase.
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Post by uberlurker on Mar 23, 2017 23:59:46 GMT
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Post by Artemis on Mar 24, 2017 0:00:16 GMT
I can only imagine if teachers conducted their classrooms the way some advocate BioWare should produce and market their games: appeal only to the majority. Me: Okay, the vast majority of this class is made up of women, so all assignments will be about feminist issues; your final is about menstruation. Let's do this. Male Students: W... T... F???? Me: *loses my job*
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Post by Vicex on Mar 24, 2017 0:02:02 GMT
And the problem of business catering to the largest number of potential consumers is...? Sure- it might not be fair, but again.. it's not about what's fair- in the end, it's all about time and money, and Bioware/EA came to the conclusion that they could not justify the time or money to create scenes like that for every character. Better to make an 'improvement' that most players will see/enjoy (according to the developers) rather than just leave it when they clearly felt it was subpar. It's fine to be upset, but to be on a crusade over this is a bit ridiculous. You have to take into account Bioware probably did;t do this out of malice, but out of necessity due to finite time and resources. Edit: What you suggest Bioware to have done would be like having a European Car manufacture (that exclusively ships to Europe) spend the same amount of money and time developing an automatic version of a car as a manual version- despite the fact that far fewer people will use the automatic version. It just makes no sense for a company to do that, when they could invest more in perfecting the manual version that will be used far more often. The majority has no inherent “right” to get more options than anyone else. Bioware set a certain standard. We're just asking them to maintain it and respect their fanbase. No one is talking about rights, or even what is fair here. It seems like people here do not have a concept finite resources. Things change. No one said Bioware didn't try, but if they are going to fail to live up to unrealistic expectations held by fans, then better to disappoint the few than the many. The lack of male-male romances isn't disrespect by any means, to even imply that is absurd and makes me have less sympathy for your case. Well.. one could argue that happens, just not with sex, but with traditional students and special needs students.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 24, 2017 0:07:01 GMT
Yeah, and in DA2 and DAI they managed their resources in such a way to have those more equitable results.
Or hell, If they took some of those resources (if we're considering manpower and processing power, which both stem from $$) from Cora's and PeeBee's scenes and put them into the CC instead, I bet a whole bunch of people -- male, female, gay, straight, bi, and everything else -- would be super stoked. So there is your majority, a CC that benefits everyone, or certain scenes that benefit some.
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Post by vertigomez on Mar 24, 2017 0:09:34 GMT
No one is talking about rights, or even what is fair here. It seems like people here do not have a concept finite resources. We are, actually, talking about what is and isn't fair. Did you actually read what I posted? "We have a lot of fans, many of whom are neither straight nor male, and they deserve no less attention."I'm sorry if you feel differently. Oh no.
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Post by Dirk on Mar 24, 2017 0:11:40 GMT
Yeah, and in DA2 and DAI they managed their resources in such a way to have those more equitable results. Or hell, If they took some of those resources (if we're considering manpower and processing power, which both stem from $$) from Cora's and PeeBee's scenes and put them into the CC instead, I bet a whole bunch of people -- male, female, gay, straight, bi, and everything else -- would be super stoked. So there is your majority, a CC that benefits everyone, or certain scenes that benefit some. The moment when Cora's ass is animated better than you character's face.
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Post by Vicex on Mar 24, 2017 0:18:12 GMT
No one is talking about rights, or even what is fair here. It seems like people here do not have a concept finite resources. We are, actually, talking about what is and isn't fair. Did you actually read what I posted? "We have a lot of fans, many of whom are neither straight nor male, and they deserve no less attention."I'm sorry if you feel differently. Oh no. Perhaps I should have worded that: rights and fairness are secondary to time and resources, and thus not the issue. You need to go a step further and identify what is the issue. It's not that Bioware intentionally neglected a part of their community and lied to people by having a lack of male-male romances, it's that time/resources were not managed in a way to be able to provide the same level of experience for all players... and you know what? That's okay. Shit happens, deadlines are missed, problems arise- but you are just assuming that Bioware is out to get you. You should read the 'things change', but why have a civil discussion when you just resort to pettiness? The fact the Bioware listens at all to people who act like you is worthy of praise.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 24, 2017 0:25:35 GMT
Perhaps I should have worded that: rights and fairness are secondary to time and resources, and thus not the issue. You need to go a step further and identify what is the issue. It's not that Bioware intentionally neglected a part of their community and lied to people by having a lack of male-male romances, it's that time/resources were not managed in a way to be able to provide the same level of experience for all players... and you know what? That's okay. Shit happens, deadlines are missed, problems arise- but you are just assuming that Bioware is out to get you. What about when it consistently happens in favor of one group over another? Bioware may not be "out to get" gay players, but they are showing, by their actions, that they don't matter, that they aren't valued as players of their game and as customers.
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Post by vertigomez on Mar 24, 2017 0:25:48 GMT
Vicex Or perhaps, when time and resources are scarce and shit happens and deadlines are missed, gay content shouldn't be the first thing on the cutting room floor? Just a thought.
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Post by Vicex on Mar 24, 2017 0:34:21 GMT
Vicex Or perhaps, when time and resources are scarce and shit happens and deadlines are missed, gay content shouldn't be the first thing on the cutting room floor? Just a thought. Again, you are assuming it was the first thing cut (which is very unlikely)- that Bioware is targeting certain player. Any so-called 'evidence' I've seen saying Bioware is discriminating against gay content is circumstantial at best. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be content equal for all players, I'm just saying that development of games isn't a perfect system, and unfortunately not everyone will be satisfied to their prior expectations- despite the developer making no promises to do otherwise. Sure, they may try, but you have to be at least a little forgiving. Mass Effect Andromeda is hardly a perfect game that just had polish done for the last 6 months where there would have been no excuse to lack the content.
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Post by Vicex on Mar 24, 2017 0:38:55 GMT
Perhaps I should have worded that: rights and fairness are secondary to time and resources, and thus not the issue. You need to go a step further and identify what is the issue. It's not that Bioware intentionally neglected a part of their community and lied to people by having a lack of male-male romances, it's that time/resources were not managed in a way to be able to provide the same level of experience for all players... and you know what? That's okay. Shit happens, deadlines are missed, problems arise- but you are just assuming that Bioware is out to get you. What about when it consistently happens in favor of one group over another? Bioware may not be "out to get" gay players, but they are showing, by their actions, that they don't matter, that they aren't valued as players of their game and as customers. How? I'll admit I've only played Bioware's Star Wars and Mass Effect games, but it's really only been in fairly recent years where a major company could get away with adding such content without being restricted in countries or faced with resistance for widespread acceptance because of the publics lacking acceptance of people who are different. However, I'd argue that if Bioware didn't value gay people at all, there would be no options at all. Could they do more? Sure Should they? Absolutely. Again, you can be mad, you can express your opinion and lobby Bioware/EA, but to go as far as some people are going and thinking that Bioware does't give a care in the world or is out to get them is absurd.
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