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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 20, 2017 23:49:52 GMT
TIL a 2/4/4/3 spread is a massive downgrade from a 2/4/4/2 spread. I vote they delete Vetra from the f/f romances to restore balance. Did you read the thread? Firstly, it's 5/4/3/2. Secondly, all orientations other than gay men have at least 2 options on the squad. One of the m/m options is a fling on a planet, the other is a crewmate. Thirdly romance scenes are handled differently. I forgot that asari doctor. Woops. A squad romance isnt inherently better than crew romance. I thought DAI dispelled that nonsense. Gil communicates with you on the field unlike in DAI, has his own missions like DAI, and has his own scenes like previous games. You can't make an objective analysis of the romance construction just yet. The fling is a new concept. It has only been done once in any baseline BioWare game and that was with Kelly. Again, making a conclusion about the quantity and quality of the romance is premature. The point is, romance content is a subset of NPC content but that's where it ends. Just because a particular NPC has more content doesn't mean that they have more romance content. You should disassociate the two, especially when you can't make a conclusion just yet. Now you want to address the quantity of romance options? That's fair game. I don't get why Jaal wasn't bisexual. That's where it ends though. Any other conclusions are premature.
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Post by sageoflife on Mar 20, 2017 23:50:56 GMT
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Post by Suaimhneas on Mar 20, 2017 23:55:04 GMT
To be completely fair, m/m romances are not the only ones with fade to black, Vetra romance has it too. But I agree with you that the balance is unfair and I can't help but wonder why m/m Jaal was disabled (also read that there were already lines recorded for it?) Admittedly I understand about Vetra, but the straight dudes and lesbians who romance her have other alternatives that aren't fade to black. All the M/M options are fade to black.
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Post by Lorn on Mar 20, 2017 23:55:36 GMT
As many of you are now aware, with the Prima guide out, we now know the romance distribution for Mass Effect Andromeda. Straight men have 5 options, including 3 squadmates. Gay women have 4, possibly 5, including 2 squadmates. Straight women have 3, including 2 squadmates. Gay men have 2, including 0 squadmates. My (and many others') concerns are threefold: 1. There is evidence in the code that Jaal was originally coded as bisexual, but this was then disabled. The fact that gay men are the only group without any squadmate option is very disappointing, as we have constantly had the fewest options across the mass effect franchise. That one was originally coded as such and this was then changed is a slap in the face. In addition, that Aaryn Flynn has said the team was very 'satisfied' with the balance, when it is so inclined against gay male players, is troublesome. 2. Regardless of this imbalance, this means that, if you play as a gay man, you are unable to receive an achievement/trophy, 'Matchmaker', requiring the completion of three different romances. This is not acceptable. Preventing people's access to achievements due to the choice of their character's sexuality is not okay, and not becoming of Bioware. 3. The fact that Bioware painstakingly and meticulously animated sexual scenes for straight and lesbian pairings, but have only 'fades to black' for gay male pairings, is concerning. Beyond this, gay male kisses in the game are, unlike those of other romances, often covered with hands, arms, or by the angle of the shot, as if either they could not bear to animate it, or wished to hide it from the screen. You can make your concerns known, and the only way this will improve (clearly, as it has got *worse* since Mass Effect 3) is by speaking out. Send (RESPECTFUL) tweets and raise complaints at help.ea.com/en/mass-effect/mass-effect-andromeda/ (you can speak directly to someone from EA through text or voice with minimal delay). We need to unite and make our voices heard, because they aren't listening very hard for them. The next Mass Effect will include fairer treatment for gay men, but only if we make it clear that this is not acceptable. Thanks, and remember to be respectful to the developers when raising your complaints. What the hell, Bioware?You claim to be inclusive, yet consistently shaft the same people. For no good reason. Show, don't tell, Bioware. Show us how inclusive you are, because I for one cannot take your words seriously anymore. Absolutely pathetic. Pathetic treatment of players. And you have the gall to applaud yourselves for being "progressive". And worst of all, you say you're "satisfied" with the distribution of options. You make flimsy excuses about "realism" so you can have extremely uneven numbers in straight Scott's favour, and maybe some lesbian stuff because it's "hawt". You put huge effort into animating explicit sex scenes with female nudity, but don't give male options the same treatment? I think we all know why. I don't freaking care if it makes you uncomfortable. Deal with it. I want some consistency, some equality. I'm not even a fan of explicit scenes, but that doesn't matter. What matters is that it's the same for everyone, explicit or not. I didn't want this to happen. Today is a very sad day. Once more unto the breach, I suppose. I'm with you. To the end of the line. Lesbians are gay too, unless only MEN count, and if that's the case then your argument just gets even more hilarious.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by London on Mar 20, 2017 23:56:08 GMT
Obviously a lot of people. (edited my less reserved reply to a poster like this...) Anyway less content for me = less money from me. Waiting for this game to go on sale. What? 40% of the options straight Ryder has (if you are even willing to count non-squadmate romances equially?) 40% of $60 = $24 is the price I will wait for. In reality these lame romance scenes and reduced content means I should wait for the GOTY...err..who are we kidding. No one is voting this GOTY. Anyway, "All DLC Included" version at $20.
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Post by Lorn on Mar 20, 2017 23:56:40 GMT
Did I miss the memo that states that lesbians aren't gay? I specified that the thread was about gay Scott in the title and several times in the actual thread.. So what you're saying is, that because they catered to gays as a whole instead of just gay men BioWare isn't inclusive.
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Post by flog61 on Mar 20, 2017 23:57:36 GMT
Did you read the thread? Firstly, it's 5/4/3/2. Secondly, all orientations other than gay men have at least 2 options on the squad. One of the m/m options is a fling on a planet, the other is a crewmate. Thirdly romance scenes are handled differently. I forgot that asari doctor. Woops. A squad romance isnt inherently better than crew romance. I thought DAI dispelled that nonsense. Gil communicates with you on the field unlike in DAI, has his own missions like DAI, and has his own scenes like previous games. You can't make an objective analysis of the romance construction just yet. The fling is a new concept. It has only been done once in any baseline BioWare game and that was with Kelly. Again, making a conclusion about the quantity and quality of the romance is premature. The point is, romance content is a subset of NPC content but that's where it ends. Just because a particular NPC has more content doesn't mean that they have more romance content. You should disassociate the two, especially when you can't make a conclusion just yet. Now you want to address the quantity of romance options? That's fair game. I don't get why Jaal wasn't bisexual. That's where it ends though. Any other conclusions are premature. I understand, but I believe dataminers found 30% less romance dialogue for crewmates, and also I don't think they have missions that are as fleshed out as companion missions? And flings, while a new concept, are pretty clearly going to have less content. Also most of my points still stand, even if Gil turns out to be the best romance in the history of Bioware. If you play as a gay man you can't get an achievement, the sex scenes are muted unlike others, gay men have had the least options 4 games in a row.
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Post by flog61 on Mar 20, 2017 23:58:27 GMT
What the hell, Bioware?You claim to be inclusive, yet consistently shaft the same people. For no good reason. Show, don't tell, Bioware. Show us how inclusive you are, because I for one cannot take your words seriously anymore. Absolutely pathetic. Pathetic treatment of players. And you have the gall to applaud yourselves for being "progressive". And worst of all, you say you're "satisfied" with the distribution of options. You make flimsy excuses about "realism" so you can have extremely uneven numbers in straight Scott's favour, and maybe some lesbian stuff because it's "hawt". You put huge effort into animating explicit sex scenes with female nudity, but don't give male options the same treatment? I think we all know why. I don't freaking care if it makes you uncomfortable. Deal with it. I want some consistency, some equality. I'm not even a fan of explicit scenes, but that doesn't matter. What matters is that it's the same for everyone, explicit or not. I didn't want this to happen. Today is a very sad day. Once more unto the breach, I suppose. I'm with you. To the end of the line. Lesbians are gay too, unless only MEN count, and if that's the case then your argument just gets even more hilarious. Again, this thread is specifically about gay male Ryder. It says so in the title.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Frhozen on Mar 20, 2017 23:58:42 GMT
I'm thinking we should maybe try to contact some gaming news websites about this? I'm sure at least one or two would be interested in writing an article (even if it's just to jump on the "Mass Effect Andromeda is shit" bandwagon but hey, why not use that to our advantage?).
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 20, 2017 23:58:52 GMT
Did you just blank quote me
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Post by Vall on Mar 21, 2017 0:01:34 GMT
Lesbians are gay too, unless only MEN count, and if that's the case then your argument just gets even more hilarious. He was talking specifically about gay men romances (as he stated in his op). Unless you want to lump all gay people into the same bag, regardless of gender. Then why don't we do that with straight people too? Straight people have ridiculously many romances As many of you are now aware, with the Prima guide out, we now know the romance distribution for Mass Effect Andromeda. Straight men have 5 options, including 3 squadmates. Gay women have 4, possibly 5, including 2 squadmates. Straight women have 3, including 2 squadmates. Gay men have 2, including 0 squadmates. My (and many others') concerns are threefold: 1. There is evidence in the code that Jaal was originally coded as bisexual, but this was then disabled. The fact that gay men are the only group without any squadmate option is very disappointing, as we have constantly had the fewest options across the mass effect franchise. That one was originally coded as such and this was then changed is a slap in the face. In addition, that Aaryn Flynn has said the team was very 'satisfied' with the balance, when it is so inclined against gay male players, is troublesome. 2. Regardless of this imbalance, this means that, if you play as a gay man, you are unable to receive an achievement/trophy, 'Matchmaker', requiring the completion of three different romances. This is not acceptable. Preventing people's access to achievements due to the choice of their character's sexuality is not okay, and not becoming of Bioware. 3. The fact that Bioware painstakingly and meticulously animated sexual scenes for straight and lesbian pairings, but have only 'fades to black' for gay male pairings, is concerning. Beyond this, gay male kisses in the game are, unlike those of other romances, often covered with hands, arms, or by the angle of the shot, as if either they could not bear to animate it, or wished to hide it from the screen. You can make your concerns known, and the only way this will improve (clearly, as it has got *worse* since Mass Effect 3) is by speaking out. Send (RESPECTFUL) tweets and raise complaints at https://help.ea.com/en/mass-effect/mass-effect-andromeda/ (you can speak directly to someone from EA through text or voice with minimal delay). We need to unite and make our voices heard, because they aren't listening very hard for them. The next Mass Effect will include fairer treatment for gay men, but only if we make it clear that this is not acceptable. Thanks, and remember to be respectful to the developers when raising your complaints. What the hell, Bioware?You claim to be inclusive, yet consistently shaft the same people. For no good reason. Don't give me that crap about "making sense". Show, don't tell, Bioware. Show us how inclusive you are, because I for one cannot take your words seriously anymore. Absolutely pathetic. Pathetic treatment of players. And you have the gall to applaud yourselves for being "progressive". And worst of all, you say you're "satisfied" with the distribution of options. You make flimsy excuses about "realism" so you can have extremely uneven numbers in straight Scott's favour, and maybe some lesbian stuff because it's "hawt". You put huge effort into animating explicit sex scenes with female nudity, but don't give male options the same treatment? I think we all know why. I don't freaking care if it makes you uncomfortable. Deal with it. I want some consistency, some equality. I'm not even a fan of explicit scenes, but that doesn't matter. What matters is that it's the same for everyone, explicit or not. I didn't want this to happen. Today is a very sad day. Once more unto the breach, I suppose. I'm with you. To the end of the line. You said it better than I ever could. We will hold the line!
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N2
Posts: 213 Likes: 832
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Post by flog61 on Mar 21, 2017 0:01:43 GMT
Did you just blank quote me It was an accident xD I've edited it now.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 0:02:24 GMT
Please don't allow trolls to come in and taunt you into responding so that the thread derails and it gets closed. It's what they do best. Ignore them and they go away. Every. Single. Time.
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London
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Posts: 220 Likes: 397
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by London on Mar 21, 2017 0:02:32 GMT
I'm thinking we should maybe try to contact some gaming news websites about this? I'm sure at least one or two would be interested in writing an article (even if it's just to jump on the "Mass Effect Andromeda is shit" bandwagon but hey, why not use that to our advantage?). I wish we had a gay Anita Sarkeesian. Would make a great video series. Gay Frequencies anyone? I'm completely serious.
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Post by flog61 on Mar 21, 2017 0:03:11 GMT
I'm thinking we should maybe try to contact some gaming news websites about this? I'm sure at least one or two would be interested in writing an article (even if it's just to jump on the "Mass Effect Andromeda is shit" bandwagon but hey, why not use that to our advantage?). That's a good idea, I don't mind doing it. Does anyone have experience of doing it? I don't really know what to do..just contact them with a story idea? How? And which would be the best for it?
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Post by ToLazy4Name on Mar 21, 2017 0:04:23 GMT
Obviously a lot of people. (edited my less reserved reply to a poster like this...) Anyway less content for me = less money from me. Waiting for this game to go on sale. What? 40% of the options straight Ryder has (if you are even willing to count non-squadmate romances equially?) 40% of $60 = $24 is the price I will wait for. In reality these lame romance scenes and reduced content means I should wait for the GOTY...err..who are we kidding. No one is voting this GOTY. Anyway, "All DLC Included" version at $20. wew lad I hope you're not deciding to wait to buy the game based entirely on the fucking romance options also pls don't cuck yourself for my sake :^ )
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Post by Vall on Mar 21, 2017 0:05:26 GMT
I'm thinking we should maybe try to contact some gaming news websites about this? I'm sure at least one or two would be interested in writing an article (even if it's just to jump on the "Mass Effect Andromeda is shit" bandwagon but hey, why not use that to our advantage?). I wish we had a gay Anita Sarkeesian. Would make a great video series. Gay Frequencies anyone? I'm completely serious. Spirits, NO! She is idiotic, gives everyone bad name.
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SaraRyder
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR
XBL Gamertag: MonsterCupcakes
Posts: 122 Likes: 319
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MonsterCupcakes
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Post by SaraRyder on Mar 21, 2017 0:05:39 GMT
Seriously wtf indeed. Four games and gay guys are still waiting for a male alien to romance, and females for a human squad mate. And now there are ZERO options on the squad for M/M?? Suvi/Gil don't have face models and are fade to black. In what world is that equality? I'm so disappointed in them. In utter disbelief they went this route.
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London
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Posts: 220 Likes: 397
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by London on Mar 21, 2017 0:05:51 GMT
Obviously a lot of people. (edited my less reserved reply to a poster like this...) Anyway less content for me = less money from me. Waiting for this game to go on sale. What? 40% of the options straight Ryder has (if you are even willing to count non-squadmate romances equially?) 40% of $60 = $24 is the price I will wait for. In reality these lame romance scenes and reduced content means I should wait for the GOTY...err..who are we kidding. No one is voting this GOTY. Anyway, "All DLC Included" version at $20. wew lad I hope you're not deciding to wait to buy the game based entirely on the fucking romance options also pls don't cuck yourself for my sake :^ ) I'm willing to speak with my wallet. Also with the reviews I've read I don't feel I'm "cuck"ing myself out of anything by waiting. You on the other hand I can confirm has absolutely 0% influence over whether and/or when I purchase this.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 21, 2017 0:06:13 GMT
I understand, but I believe dataminers found 30% less romance dialogue for crewmates, and also I don't think they have missions that are as fleshed out as companion missions? And flings, while a new concept, are pretty clearly going to have less content. Also most of my points still stand, even if Gil turns out to be the best romance in the history of Bioware. If you play as a gay man you can't get an achievement, the sex scenes are muted unlike others, gay men have had the least options 4 games in a row. Well you should remember that datamining can contain incomplete and sometimes incorrect data. I agree that the fling is going to have less NPC content, but why should it necessarily have less romance content? In fact, Reyes has far more flirt dialogue than most of the Tempest NPCs. His scenes also have several romance variations. I do agree that the achievement is somewhat problematic, but why must it be attained through only one orientation? I distinctly remember that most of BioWare's previous games required you to romance everyone at least once. This is actually a more loose requirement. It seems a little nitpicky to me. Are you only going to play gay protagonists?
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Post by ToLazy4Name on Mar 21, 2017 0:06:47 GMT
wew lad I hope you're not deciding to wait to buy the game based entirely on the fucking romance options also pls don't cuck yourself for my sake :^ ) I'm willing to speak with my wallet. Also with the reviews I've read I don't feel I'm "cuck"ing myself out of anything by waiting. I meant you editing your response lad
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Mar 21, 2017 0:07:13 GMT
The thing is, Bioware needs to stop doing the bare minimum and actually do better overtime. Two m/m options as NPCs and no m/m squaddies? That's not even stagnation; that's regressing. It's a major step back, and I hope they hear our concerns regarding this matter. Many LGBT fans are really, genuinely hurt by this, and I've seen people today say they might never buy another Bioware game if they go this direction.
How do you go from the pinnacle of LGBT rep in gaming to the LGBT community feeling betrayed? This is how. If they want our trust, they have to earn it.
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Member is Online
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Quite oneirophobic
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by Dirk on Mar 21, 2017 0:08:06 GMT
I think before we make any "official" and unified moves, we should make sure that all LI options are confirmed beyond any doubt. After that we can start contacting press or write a letter to EA/Bioware where people can sign it. We'll have to make sure that we make our points clear without being rude, otherwise they will just discard them.
I am not really experienced in this, but it has been done before on the old BSN, the "Fighting for Love" thread.
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Post by Pearl on Mar 21, 2017 0:09:29 GMT
Lesbians are gay too, unless only MEN count, and if that's the case then your argument just gets even more hilarious. He was talking specifically about gay men romances (as he stated in his op). Unless you want to lump all gay people into the same bag, regardless of gender. Then why don't we do that with straight people too? Straight people have ridiculously many romances. Okay. Let's look at the numbers provided in the OP. Here we can see that straight Ryders have a combined total of 8 options. Gay Ryders have a combined total of 6. Doesn't seem like straight people have "ridiculously many" romances when compared to their gay counterparts.
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Post by flog61 on Mar 21, 2017 0:10:14 GMT
I specified that the thread was about gay Scott in the title and several times in the actual thread.. So what you're saying is, that because they catered to gays as a whole instead of just gay men BioWare isn't inclusive. No, I'm saying that it is not fair that gay men have received less content than all other groups for 4 games in a row, and the fact that they cannot get an achievement if they play as a gay male character is absurd. I'm not saying anything about gay women.
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