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Post by lurkinganon on Mar 21, 2017 0:34:10 GMT
Oh I know where some of you people are from.
What's the state of /v/ now that Andromeda has been out? Is everyone having a laugh?
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Post by London on Mar 21, 2017 0:34:12 GMT
In theory, it's not OK. Of course I want more content. In practice, it's understandable. Now people here are being cynical about the F/F content being done for male gamers. I'm sorry but nothing is going to be good enough. People are attaching motivations to justify their own biases. On the female romance thing, why do you think gay women have had more romance options than gay men in every mass effect game? That's quite a lot to be coincidental. I don't think they're solely written for straight men by any means, but I'm not sure what the explanation for them receiving more romance content than gay men consistently is. I'd be highly skeptical if back in 2005 - 2007 when ME1 was in development they were intentionally reaching out to a lesbian playerbase when contemplating the FShep/Liara pairing.
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Post by Frhozen on Mar 21, 2017 0:34:13 GMT
The thing is, it's not as if the rest got quantity and we got quality. The rest got quality AND quantity. We got 2 romances that look good, neither being squadmates unlike everyone else's options. No-one's saying they didn't make ANY effort. Just not equal effort. Otherwise they would have done things like not only have sex scenes for straight/lesbian Ryders, and would have given us at least one option on the squad, like Jaal, who has the code to be bi.I'm getting really confused over what you think people should complain about or not? Do you think any of this is valid or not? I'm thinking the prima guide was wrong. From a reviewer: Yeah but there've also been many reviewers saying he is straight. It's just such a huge freaking mess at the moment.
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Post by Lorn on Mar 21, 2017 0:35:03 GMT
Let's not forget that a straight person can enjoy gay male romances. Unless that is somehow inconceivable to you. There is a difference between "can be enjoyed by" and "created for". There is? And here I was under the impression that video game content was developed to be enjoyed by the audience regardless of who that audience is. How horribly egalitarian of me...
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Post by sixsmith on Mar 21, 2017 0:35:40 GMT
I'm thinking the prima guide was wrong. From a reviewer: Yeah but there've also been many reviewers saying he is straight. It's just such a huge freaking mess at the moment. Hm. I don't know why BioWare wants to withhold this information. Just give us the official word on romances, already.
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Post by London on Mar 21, 2017 0:36:09 GMT
There is a difference between "can be enjoyed by" and "created for". There is? And here I was under the impression that video game content was developed to be enjoyed by the audience regardless of who that audience is. How horribly egalitarian of me... I don't know any company that would invest millions of dollars to create a product with no target audience in mind.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 21, 2017 0:36:38 GMT
The thing is, it's not as if the rest got quantity and we got quality. The rest got quality AND quantity. We got 2 romances that look good, neither being squadmates unlike everyone else's options. No-one's saying they didn't make ANY effort. Just not equal effort. Otherwise they would have done things like not only have sex scenes for straight/lesbian Ryders, and would have given us at least one option on the squad, like Jaal, who has the code to be bi. I'm getting really confused over what you think people should complain about or not? Do you think any of this is valid or not? It's this concept that we have less as opposed to someone having more. They sound the same, but the former has negative connotation while the latter doesn't. I'm a half-glass full kind of guy, so I suppose my perspective is different from those who think we're getting shafted. I mean.. don't get why Jaal is not bisexual, and I would jump on board with anyone who expresses disappointment about that. But when people start making assumptions about the motivations about m/m content as a whole, it stops making sense. All I'm saying is that discussion regarding the quality of the content is premature, and you're just using subjective criteria to make an objective conclusion on the state of m/m LIs. People are making the distinction between squad and crew when that distinction does not exist in the present game outside of who is fighting with you. Everyone participates in banter. The crew even has unique dialogue given their presence on the Tempest. They also get their own quests. Their own scenes. Their own dialogue. We don't know the extent yet. At the same time, they claim that others have more romance options because flings are inferior, then use those flings to justify having less. Reyes has more flirt options than most LIs on the Tempest. As a result he has more flirt dialogue than most Lis in the game. Wouldn't that constitute more romance content? It's also an interesting experiment. We have never had a major game NPC be a romance option. I wonder how it'll turn out.
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Post by flog61 on Mar 21, 2017 0:38:21 GMT
The thing is, it's not as if the rest got quantity and we got quality. The rest got quality AND quantity. We got 2 romances that look good, neither being squadmates unlike everyone else's options. No-one's saying they didn't make ANY effort. Just not equal effort. Otherwise they would have done things like not only have sex scenes for straight/lesbian Ryders, and would have given us at least one option on the squad, like Jaal, who has the code to be bi. I'm getting really confused over what you think people should complain about or not? Do you think any of this is valid or not? It's this concept that we have less as opposed to someone having more. They sound the same, but the former has negative connotation while the latter doesn't. I don't get why Jaal is not bisexual, and I would jump on board with anyone who expresses disappointment about that. When people start making assumptions about the motivations about m/m content as a whole, it stops making sense. All I'm saying is that discussion regarding the quality of the content is premature, and you're just using subjective criteria to make an objective conclusion on the state of m/m LIs. People are making the distinction between squad and crew when that distinction does not exist. At the same time, they claim that others have more romance options because flings are inferior, then use those flings to justify having less. Reyes has more flirt options than most LIs on the Tempest. As a result he has more flirt dialogue. I think saying I'm using 'subjective criteria' is unfair. I'm using the prima guide. The fact that gay Scott will apparently not be able to get an achievement is not subjective. The fact that he has the least options is not subjective, either.
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Post by ToLazy4Name on Mar 21, 2017 0:38:47 GMT
There is? And here I was under the impression that video game content was developed to be enjoyed by the audience regardless of who that audience is. How horribly egalitarian of me... I don't know any company that would invest millions of dollars to create a product with no target audience in mind. Hi, straight guy here who thought the Dorian romance in Inquisition was well-written and enjoyable. You sound very privileged when you assume content is being made specifically for you. Very uninclusive.
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Post by Lorn on Mar 21, 2017 0:38:55 GMT
There is? And here I was under the impression that video game content was developed to be enjoyed by the audience regardless of who that audience is. How horribly egalitarian of me... I don't know any company that would invest millions of dollars to create a product with no target audience in mind. Clearly your target audiences are highly specified, which is part of the problem. A reasonable target audience would be the largest group of people that would be able to enjoy the game. The only place the "make it for the straight dudes cuz the gays don't matter" occurs is in online discussions (like this one).
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Post by Dirk on Mar 21, 2017 0:41:27 GMT
Where did you guys get info on fading to black etc ? Can somebody link me? Also, I really hope Jaal is going to be bi because otherwise, embarrassing. Like, come on, bioware. It's 2017. Give gay men proper romance options. I wonder why do they deal with it much better in Dragon Age games. I mean, not perfect, but at least Dorian and Bull had proper romance scenes and they were kinda cool as characters. Is mass effect somehow... more straight? More male-oriented? Gil romance:
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Post by London on Mar 21, 2017 0:42:32 GMT
I don't know any company that would invest millions of dollars to create a product with no target audience in mind. Clearly your target audiences are highly specified, which is part of the problem. A reasonable target audience would be the largest group of people that would be able to enjoy the game. The only place the "make it for the straight dudes cuz the gays don't matter" occurs is in online discussions (like this one). So I'm sure they went to the CFO with their target audience being defined as "largest group possible" and they were like "okay sounds good to me! Here's millions of dollars! Just don't spend any of it on the gays." ME1 was decidedly uninclusive and that decision was purposeful. They have trended to more inclusion since Bioware now has a demonstrated audience for this.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 21, 2017 0:44:41 GMT
I think saying I'm using 'subjective criteria' is unfair. I'm using the prima guide. The fact that gay Scott will apparently not be able to get an achievement is not subjective. The fact that he has the least options is not subjective, either. Well it is subjective. You are deciding that squad members are more worthy than crew? DAI eliminated that precedent. If we use the Prima Guide, there isn't even a distinction for the supposed flings. For all we know, Reyes has more romance content than most of the Tempest Lis if we go by his Flirt options. Look at that page. It's huge! Puts Gil to shame and we know he has a lot of content. --- I will concede the numbers argument, but this has never been an issue and I don't get why it's starting now. We have never had more than two options and it's not like the other orientations have more options than before. The only one that does is ironically the f/f subset.
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Post by Lorn on Mar 21, 2017 0:46:17 GMT
Clearly your target audiences are highly specified, which is part of the problem. A reasonable target audience would be the largest group of people that would be able to enjoy the game. The only place the "make it for the straight dudes cuz the gays don't matter" occurs is in online discussions (like this one). So I'm sure they went to the CFO with their target audience being defined as "largest group possible" and they were like "okay sounds good to me! Here's millions of dollars! Just don't spend any of it on the gays." ME1 was decidedly uninclusive and that decision was purposeful. They have trended to more inclusion since Bioware now has a demonstrated audience for this. BioWare had a demonstrated audience for "the gays" since Jade Empire, and KOTOR if you count Juhani. However, BioWare did not have a reputation as a creator of dating simulators with slight action and roleplaying elements until much later (after ME1). The idea that they were all "Let's make this game only for the Straights because "the gays" don't matter" has been falsely attributed to them after the fact.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 21, 2017 0:47:24 GMT
Honestly I'm still in disbelief that Jaal is not a bisexual option. It would make a lot of sense given the background of his race.
Are people 100% sure about this?
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Post by Lorn on Mar 21, 2017 0:48:10 GMT
Honestly I'm still in disbelief that Jaal is not a bisexual option. It would make a lot of sense given the background of his race. Are people 100% sure about this? No.
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Post by Davrin's boobs on Mar 21, 2017 0:48:25 GMT
LOOOOL at that guy, sorry don't believe ya This day has drained me to godlike levels so I'm going to bed and I hope this freakshow ends tomorrow.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 21, 2017 0:52:37 GMT
I wish BioWare would comment on Jaal and just put it all to rest.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Ark on Mar 21, 2017 0:54:51 GMT
I wish BioWare would comment on Jaal and just put it all to rest. Agreed. Especially if the official Prima guide is giving people inaccurate information.
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Post by Lorn on Mar 21, 2017 0:54:58 GMT
I think saying I'm using 'subjective criteria' is unfair. I'm using the prima guide. The fact that gay Scott will apparently not be able to get an achievement is not subjective. The fact that he has the least options is not subjective, either. Well it is subjective. You are deciding that squad members are more worthy than crew? DAI eliminated that precedent. If we use the Prima Guide, there isn't even a distinction for the supposed flings. For all we know, Reyes has more romance content than most of the Tempest Lis if we go by his Flirt options. Look at that page. It's huge! Puts Gil to shame and we know he has a lot of content. --- I will concede the numbers argument, but this has never been an issue and I don't get why it's starting now. We have never had more than two options and it's not like the other orientations have more options than before. The only one that does is ironically the f/f subset.Which is why I focused on it in my first posts in this thread. Hell, female characters in general had more romance options in DAI, but people still had to whine about how BioWare isn't being "inclusive". The inanity of it all...
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 21, 2017 0:55:24 GMT
I'd be highly skeptical if back in 2005 - 2007 when ME1 was in development they were intentionally reaching out to a lesbian playerbase when contemplating the FShep/Liara pairing. Nobody is denying space babes, but I think you're being cynical here.
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Post by Lorn on Mar 21, 2017 0:56:53 GMT
I wish BioWare would comment on Jaal and just put it all to rest. I wish BioWare would name the actual leaf animator for MEA so all the people that harassed the woman that "claims" it was her would look more like idiots, but shockingly that will never happen.
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Post by flog61 on Mar 21, 2017 0:58:22 GMT
Ok, Jaal is officially straight.
Look at the rest of the tweets, but basically he contacted bioware and they've said Jaal should turn Scott down.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 21, 2017 0:58:30 GMT
Which is why I focused on it in my first posts in this thread. Hell, female characters in general had more romance options in DAI, but people still had to whine about how BioWare isn't being "inclusive". The inanity of it all... Well I think some people are referring to "gay-inclusive" specifically. I can understand that to some extent, but the generalization to LGBT is odd given that there are more L and B's than straights lol
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Post by Natashina on Mar 21, 2017 0:58:54 GMT
I've gotten some reports and I don't like what I see.
First off, knock it off with the insults. Now. If you can't get along with another poster, block them. We will not tolerate fighting tonight. If nothing else, take it to PM. If you want to bicker there, that's fine. Keep it out of the thread.
Secondly, any/all posts that are political will be moved by the mods. This includes references to current events in the United States. We have one thread for that and it's not this one. Keep this on topic.
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