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Post by KaiserShep on May 16, 2017 3:22:39 GMT
No I'm not. I've never said the game is perfect. For the record no game in the history of games has ever truly earned a 5/5, 10/10 etc.. that requires it to be perfect. Why do I say this? This is why. The way games are judged is way over the fucking map. Games with hardly any bugs or very minimum but have parts that can offend, require thinking etc get low grades. Games with sometimes game breaking bugs get perfect scores. (Looking at you Witcher 3.) So I tend to not be a sheep, go with the flow etc.. and make up my own mind. Sorry, you are dead wrong Ultima IV and Ultima VII are both 10/10 games. So are Chrono Trigger, Vandal Hearts, and Final Fantasy Tactics. I would rate ME2 as a 9/10 and it could have been a 10/10 if they'd have just fixed the borked cover save system.
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Post by gel214th on May 16, 2017 3:37:15 GMT
Fallout 4 despite it faults, has a very active player base right now. Even a game as old as skyrim still is pretty active. Fallout 4 has an active player base as well, partly because of player access to Mods. Those have added new types of gameplay and fun to that game that will keep me going back for a long time....at least until the next Fallout. That sort of longevity isn't part of EA's business model, though.
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Post by alanc9 on May 16, 2017 3:51:47 GMT
It's never been obvious that such longevity produces much revenue, so I can see why EA isn't really into it.
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Post by abaris on May 16, 2017 7:20:57 GMT
Fallout 4 has an active player base as well, partly because of player access to Mods. Those have added new types of gameplay and fun to that game that will keep me going back for a long time....at least until the next Fallout. That sort of longevity isn't part of EA's business model, though. That's something I take into account when buying any Bethesda game. That the modding community will iron out the worst flaws and bugs, and provide content that should have been in the game in the first place.
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Post by gel214th on May 16, 2017 9:47:21 GMT
It's never been obvious that such longevity produces much revenue, so I can see why EA isn't really into it. The original Skyrim was still a top seller on Steam. Years later there are still screenshots on almost every online forum showcasing new shaders, new player made armor and graphics. If the game was a one and done it would never still be in public consciousness the way it is now. If it did not contribute to sales and revenue Bethesda would not have doubled down and focused on an easy way to get mods to players. People flocked to Skyrim Special Edition in droves, many of them had never actually deleted the original and the ease of getting those mods and "new" content contributed to Skyrim SE sales. They sold almost 1 million units retail in the first week! if ME:A could be modded most of the negativity on this board would not be here, powers would be buffed, guns would be adjusted and the conversation would be around what were the best mods. We would have "Realism" Mods and conversion mods. There would be a buzz, and excitement rather than the general gloom that seems to be in every other post. Players would create mod packs to make the game what they wanted it to be. Customer engagement is even more important for ME:A because of multiplayer. New things to do in Single Player means more people available to hop over to multiplayer matches. I didn't play ME:A for multiplayer, but I tried it due to my engagement in the Single Player game. You can never make enough DLC to offset the loss in excitement and reach of an active player modding community. Cyberpunk 2077 will be on the market when EA is ready to push it's next Mass Effect. Check reviews, read what people are saying and then say that supporting mods on PC does not factor into revenue. That will be a head to head of two very different approaches to sales, development, and the relationship with the customer between Projekt and EA. If I were on the EA board, or a shareholder I would be asking questions about the approach at this point, comparing Witcher 3, Dragon Age Inquisition, DA:O and Skyrim.
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Fen'Harel Faceman
N7
GIF Addict
Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on May 16, 2017 9:52:46 GMT
It's never been obvious that such longevity produces much revenue, so I can see why EA isn't really into it. The original Skyrim was still a top seller on Steam. Years later there are still screenshots on almost every online forum showcasing new shaders, new player made armor and graphics. If the game was a one and done it would never still be in public consciousness the way it is now. If it did not contribute to sales and revenue Bethesda would not have doubled down and focused on an easy way to get mods to players. Witcher 3 has a strong modding community as well and that also has helped the game's bottom line and fanbase grow, and it has helped to keep the title top of mind. 470,000 customers downloaded a mod and endorsed it, that activity has an impact and factors into a customer's purchase. Keeping your customer engaged in your title for years has a direct impact on your sales for your next title. If they play it, and shelve it by the time your next game or sequel comes around you need to spend more money to re-engage your customer. People flocked to Skyrim Special Edition in droves, many of them had never actually deleted the original and the ease of getting those mods and "new" content contributed to Skyrim SE sales. They sold almost 1 million units retail in the first week! if ME:A could be modded most of the negativity on this board would not be here, powers would be buffed, guns would be adjusted and the conversation would be around what were the best mods. We would have "Realism" Mods and conversion mods. There would be a buzz, and excitement rather than the general gloom that seems to be in every other post. Players would create mod packs to make the game what they wanted it to be. Customer engagement is even more important for Customer engagement is even more important for ME:A because of multiplayer. New things to do in Single Player means more people available to hop over to multiplayer matches. I didn't play ME:A for multiplayer, but I tried it due to my engagement in the Single Player game. You can never make enough DLC to offset the loss in excitement and reach of an active player modding community. You can never make enough DLC to offset the loss in engagement and reach of an active player modding community. You can't practically make enough DLC to offset that loss. I think there's still an active Neverwinter Nights modding scene as well.
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Post by abaris on May 16, 2017 9:56:03 GMT
Yet it has become considerably harder to mod anything that's related with quest design. Because of fully voiced games. Skyrim modding lived because they were able to redo entire quests and to add new ones. That's not even the case with FO4. There are a lot of great mods out there, but next to no new quests or revised quests. That would be the same with MEA. Cringeworthy dialogue or lackluster quests would be a no go, short of redoing entire quests with new voice actors. Sometimes that even happens with other games, but it's extremely rare.
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Post by cloud9 on May 16, 2017 10:15:56 GMT
Please let this game flop commercially to be a cautionary tale of quantity over quality like NMS. EA and Bioware need this kind of slap in the face so the corporate checklisters actually will do something useful for a change, maybe 1 game too late. I highly doubt the game is going to flop commercially, it probably will be considered a flop by the people who go online and post about games, but that isn't the large part of the purchasing power anymore. This is a checklist game, but not an EA checklist, but a fan checklist. Look at all the features in the game and those are things that people have been saying are needed in a Mass Effect game. People wanted large worlds to roam with a rover, a lot of interactions with your squad, fluid combat, crafting system, and more. And that's exactly what I wanted all of the above but they've failed to deliver.
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Post by cloud9 on May 16, 2017 11:07:53 GMT
People posting that a financial failure for a product will encourage said company to deliver a better product seems to live in some sort of alternative reality. Financial failures 99% of times leads to the shutting down of the production of said product and NOT in its own improvement. I would like people to realize that ME is the only AAA action RPG that offers a party based sci-fi game with romances. If this game get shut down, we won't have an alternative to it. I really really don't understand what these hateful "fans" thinks when they are happy about a supposed disappointment with the franchise they are fans of. It's EA we are talking about...you get this? No ME profit = No future ME game Get it? I'd seriously suggest people to reconsider what they are wishing for. If every game gets progressively worse, I'd rather not have any more "bioware"games at all. What is the POINT of getting 1% of the experience you look for in these games? It might as well simply not exist. It's that simple. For me, 80% of andromeda I can't stand, especially the combat/gameplay. And, besides the romances (which are done soo poorly, and written worse than rule34 fanfiction), what else is left in andromeda? That resembles a bioware game? I'll tell you. NOTHING. Party-based? Really? Fallout 4 has more depth to it's companion system than Andromeda. And trust me, there will be alternatives. If you haven't noticed, while bioware dumbs their unique stuff like dialogue wheel, romance, choice and so on, other big studios like bethesda and CD PROJEKT RED seem to silently adopt them in their own games. Even Call of Duty at some point hilariously took some elements, which is actually kinda funny. To put it simple, if bioware won't give us what we want, others will. EDIT:Also, I wanted to add about your ridiculous statement, that "the notion of financial failure for a product will encourage said company to deliver a better product seems to live in some sort of alternative reality", apparently you've missed the situation with CoD: Infinite warefare. What happened with that game? The studio wanted to try something different (ironicly it reminded me of mass effect 3, with the ship and the stuff). That was actually the only time CoD peaked my interest. But what happened? There was a massive fan uproar and boycott, (oviously the CoD crowd/fanbase hates any sort of change as well). Which lead to what? Activision is now giving them a WWII game.
So, you are telling me, that the casual CoD crowd can bring their "beloved" franchise to it's roots (even though I disagree with them, but I can respect them for it), but we the Bioware fans cant? We are suppose to accept the dumbing down of our favorite franchise to nothing more than a generic Gears of war clone, and be happy about it? AND EVEN DEFEND IT (biodrones)? This level of masochism and stupidity is something I will never understand.Or perhaps you are saying that Bioware doesn't care as much for it's well being as much as Activision cares for it's money maker? Think about that. I agree what you said about BioWare should listen to their fans and if they do they'll never be in this position that they're in in the first place.
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Post by abaris on May 16, 2017 11:45:41 GMT
I agree what you said about BioWare should listen to their fans and if they do they'll never be in this position that they're in in the first place. For me the caompanions Bioware provided were always the Unique Selling Point for buying their games. That's where they utterly failed this time round. I could excuse everything else, since it's fun to explore, but if talking to your squad turns into a chore rather than an enjoyment, there's something wrong. I only disagree with what one of the members you quoted said. FO4s companions are even more bland than these. They have next to no personality and their romance options are laughable, since you can build yourself a mixed harem by romancing each and every possible option at the same time with any gender. These days I often find myself taking a generic robot with me, since they can at least pack some punch, rather than one of the ingame companions.
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Post by sherlockholmes on May 16, 2017 13:19:25 GMT
I agree what you said about BioWare should listen to their fans and if they do they'll never be in this position that they're in in the first place. For me the caompanions Bioware provided were always the Unique Selling Point for buying their games. That's where they utterly failed this time round. I could excuse everything else, since it's fun to explore, but if talking to your squad turns into a chore rather than an enjoyment, there's something wrong. I only disagree with what one of the members you quoted said. FO4s companions are even more bland than these. They have next to no personality and their romance options are laughable, since you can build yourself a mixed harem by romancing each and every possible option at the same time with any gender. These days I often find myself taking a generic robot with me, since they can at least pack some punch, rather than one of the ingame companions. I agree about the squadmates. In the KOTORs, you could talk to your squadmates almost any time and even assume control of them. With the MEs, that gradually devolved until in ME:A where there is a complete discontinuity. I've said this elsewhere, but for me, they should either re-introduce communication within the squad or get rid of it altogether. To get back to the topic, just thought I'd add this. EA stock was trading at $15 when ME:A was first conceived 5 years ago. Last time I checked, it was around $90. Also, I found it interesting, if Wiki can be believed, their biggest moneymaker is FIFA, hauling in $650 million. Astonishing! I've never played FIFA so don't know how complex it is, but it would seem to me this is a cash cow for them in terms of development. You don't have to create a world populated with alien creatures and undergo moral dilemmas in soccer.
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Post by fiannawolf on May 16, 2017 16:41:52 GMT
This is just a personal guess but I think EA wanted them to hit the 2-3 million copies sold. Since ME3 hit 1.7? Let me go look... www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=Mass+effect+3Ahh, ok, so just the 360 sales alone hit 1.9 Interesting.
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Post by sdzald on May 16, 2017 17:31:52 GMT
The problem starts with "listening to your fan base." If that is how you base a game then there is a good chance you are going to fail. You have to know your own product and what actually makes it popular, not what a vocal group of people are saying on fan sites.
MET was one of my favorite game series of all time. Sure I would post things I would love to see in the game, like more open world and exploring, better combat a better paragon/renegade system. However when I really think about the game, those are not the kind of things that made me love this series.
What I loved about MET was the character interaction, the characters became my friends. I like them ALL, even the ones I 'hated' I disliked not because they were poorly written but because they seemed real enough to me to hate.
With MEA there is only one I care about at all, Drak, the rest I want off my ship, they are boring, juvenile, and totally unbelievable and by the way that includes the main character Ryder. How can I have fun playing an ME game, no matter how good the open world is, how good the exploring is, how good the combat is, if I can't stand ANY of the freaking characters?
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Post by griffith82 on May 16, 2017 17:35:06 GMT
I highly doubt the game is going to flop commercially, it probably will be considered a flop by the people who go online and post about games, but that isn't the large part of the purchasing power anymore. This is a checklist game, but not an EA checklist, but a fan checklist. Look at all the features in the game and those are things that people have been saying are needed in a Mass Effect game. People wanted large worlds to roam with a rover, a lot of interactions with your squad, fluid combat, crafting system, and more. And that's exactly what I wanted all of the above but they've failed to deliver. Well I'm about 6 hours in and I've got all that. Strange.
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Post by alanc9 on May 16, 2017 17:50:53 GMT
It's never been obvious that such longevity produces much revenue, so I can see why EA isn't really into it. The original Skyrim was still a top seller on Steam. Years later there are still screenshots on almost every online forum showcasing new shaders, new player made armor and graphics. If the game was a one and done it would never still be in public consciousness the way it is now. If it did not contribute to sales and revenue Bethesda would not have doubled down and focused on an easy way to get mods to players. People flocked to Skyrim Special Edition in droves, many of them had never actually deleted the original and the ease of getting those mods and "new" content contributed to Skyrim SE sales. They sold almost 1 million units retail in the first week! What percentage of original Skyrim buyers, on all platforms, bought during the extended shelf-life period? A reasonable guess would do. Note that we can't really use Bethesda's following this strategy as proof that the strategy works, any more than EA's not following the strategy is proof that the strategy doesn't work.I should have been clearer above about this. I think that EA figures modding is not worth the hassle for the incremental revenue, as opposed to thinking it's an outright money loser. (EA would have fairly large costs to try this strategy since Frostbite isn't built for it.)
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Post by malgus on May 16, 2017 17:54:31 GMT
This is just a personal guess but I think EA wanted them to hit the 2-3 million copies sold. Since ME3 hit 1.7? Let me go look... www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=Mass+effect+3Ahh, ok, so just the 360 sales alone hit 1.9 Interesting. THose are the sales as of now, which means 5 years of sales for ME 3, while andromeda barely had 3 weeks of sales listed on vgchartz, and by the way the digital sales have been getting bigger since 2012 less people buy physical disk right now. As much as I like vgchartz, we can only have an idea of the physical sales, but its less important that it used to be.
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Post by cypherj on May 16, 2017 18:04:19 GMT
This is just a personal guess but I think EA wanted them to hit the 2-3 million copies sold. Since ME3 hit 1.7? Let me go look... www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=Mass+effect+3Ahh, ok, so just the 360 sales alone hit 1.9 Interesting. EA said they expected the game to sell three million copies in the first week. Since there was no mention of ME:A on the quarterly earnings call I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that didn't happen. Those were lofty expectations anyway IMHO, even if they game launched without any major issues.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: Obadaya
XBL Gamertag: ObadiahPearce
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Post by Obadiah on May 16, 2017 18:27:29 GMT
I woulda bought a physical copy for PC if I found one somewhere.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2017 18:31:16 GMT
It's never been obvious that such longevity produces much revenue, so I can see why EA isn't really into it. Well - it does tend to keep people engaged with the game and world for a much longer period of time. That can translate into additional revenue in a couple of ways: 1) DLCs more attractive for a longer period of time. Otherwise, a lot of people will have moved on to different things before all of the DLCs drop. That can also apply to other products generated by the franchise - books, comics, apparel, and the like. 2) Less turnover between titles in a series. I feel like I read somewhere that roughly 50% of the people who buy one series title do not buy the next one - retaining those customers (instead of having to find replacements) can help keep sales strong and reduce marketing costs. 3) Also, that longer-term engagement can help increase the tail, so to speak. If I know someone is still playing a game a couple of years after its release, I'm more likely to be interested in trying it. What percentage of original Skyrim buyers, on all platforms, bought during the extended shelf-life period? A reasonable guess would do. Note that we can't really use Bethesda's following this strategy as proof that the strategy works, any more than EA's not following the strategy is proof that the strategy doesn't work.I should have been clearer above about this. I think that EA figures modding is not worth the hassle for the incremental revenue, as opposed to thinking it's an outright money loser. (EA would have fairly large costs to try this strategy since Frostbite isn't built for it.) Yes, they've said in the past that it would be quite costly to offer formal support of modding. They use pricey third party software in their development, and licensing it for inclusion in whatever modding kit they might release would be quite costly, if it's even possible. As I understand it, not only is FB not built for modding, it actively tries to prevent it. This is largely due to MP, where some players will try to 'cheat' the system and/or gain advantages over other players.
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