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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 26, 2017 15:23:22 GMT
You do realize that if the game does well, the next game would be with the exact same quality if not lower? EA is not above cynically abusing the player base and a large chunk of the BW staff who created DA:O and ME2 is gone. Some devs learn from the shortcomings of a successful game, this is not the case. And yeah, Mass Effect at this rate for me it's pretty much over (unless they hand the IP to Obsidian or something), I just want the next game will it be the new IP or DA4 to be great. I love the Bioware style RPGs when they play to their strengths. More likely that it will have to be better. Because the next game will be compared to this one, and it can't get away with its name one more time. Which is why Star Wars The Last Jedi actually has to be good, or Disney will get flak for it. Why do people always want everything handed to Obsidian? They got no experience with making a 3rd person Sci-fi RPG/shooter. You can't put anything into their hands and expect it to be good. Plus at this point they are a lower tier developer that has to rely on Kickstarter/Fig. Not that i have anything against Obsidian, really looking forward to more Pillars, but so tired of reading that people think Obsidian will solve everything. Its immature and frankly silly. As much as I loved PoE, I am rather tired of hearing "Just give every RPG franchise on the market to Obsidian! everyone else is crap!" Their games are far from perfect, and often suffer from their own overly ambitious vision for their games. KOTOR2 could have been finished, but they dreamed too big and decided to go broke on a droid planet that totally blows. New Vegas was horribly broken at release, and it was Bethesda, not Obsidian, who had to patch all of it. People want to throw flak at Bethesda for "cheating" them out of their bonus for that game, but if Obsidian had bothered to polish more, and removed some of the bugs that made up the mountain of broken shit at release, they might have gotten that 1 extra metacritic point.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 26, 2017 15:28:16 GMT
Sure, that's what we need, the only RPG with choices of protagonist and a squad in the last many years to fail, so that the companies lean their lesson. MOAR sports and mobile games! No more RPG stuff, it's too risky of an investment. If you decide to go for one, make sure it's a a fixed protagonist and a transcript of a popular novel. Preferably verbatim. Yep, we are all going be so happy with this outcome. Yep. If this game flops, EA's lesson isn't going to be ''well, we must give Bioware the time, funding and freedom to do the RPGs that they used to do!!'' It's going to be ''Why are we funding this RPG studio again, when we could make more money with more mobile games, free-to-plays, shooters and EA Sports? Be very, very careful what you wish for. Not that I think Andromeda is going to significantly flop (albeit it probably won't sell above expectations) or that EA will jettison Bioware in the event it does. But executives and investors don't think like fans, they don't want games to be ''back to the glory days'' or whatever. They want money for their investment, and that's it. Except when DA2 was a gigantic failure, as a direct result of EA's unreasonable demands, they doubled the budget and gave the DA team 5 years, instead of 18 months. EA does not treat Bioware like they've treated past developers like Maxis, Westwood etc. They have consistently given Bioware a second chance after a "bad" game.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2017 15:37:13 GMT
DA2 wasn't actually a failure sales wise and sold more than Origins. Actually, none of Bioware's games have been a flop in sales so far despite what the internet will tell you. Inquisition was their best selling game ever even.
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 26, 2017 15:40:04 GMT
Yep. If this game flops, EA's lesson isn't going to be ''well, we must give Bioware the time, funding and freedom to do the RPGs that they used to do!!'' It's going to be ''Why are we funding this RPG studio again, when we could make more money with more mobile games, free-to-plays, shooters and EA Sports? Be very, very careful what you wish for. Not that I think Andromeda is going to significantly flop (albeit it probably won't sell above expectations) or that EA will jettison Bioware in the event it does. But executives and investors don't think like fans, they don't want games to be ''back to the glory days'' or whatever. They want money for their investment, and that's it. Except when DA2 was a gigantic failure, as a direct result of EA's unreasonable demands, they doubled the budget and gave the DA team 5 years, instead of 18 months. EA does not treat Bioware like they've treated past developers like Maxis, Westwood etc. They have consistently given Bioware a second chance after a "bad" game. Because their games aren't really failures in the end. That, and the fact that BioWare is too valuable as a brand to let go at this point.
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Post by mikeymoonshine on Mar 26, 2017 15:43:06 GMT
DA2 wasn't actually a failure sales wise and sold more than Origins. Actually, none of Bioware's games have been a flop in sales so far despite what the internet will tell you. Inquisition was their best selling game ever even. True and I feel like this might do better than Inquisition just because the ME series is more popular anyway, but then again the press and buzz around the game has become incredibly negative, that has to have put off some people and the game has some very strong competition at the moment.
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Post by lyvean on Mar 26, 2017 15:45:50 GMT
Yep. If this game flops, EA's lesson isn't going to be ''well, we must give Bioware the time, funding and freedom to do the RPGs that they used to do!!'' It's going to be ''Why are we funding this RPG studio again, when we could make more money with more mobile games, free-to-plays, shooters and EA Sports? Be very, very careful what you wish for. Not that I think Andromeda is going to significantly flop (albeit it probably won't sell above expectations) or that EA will jettison Bioware in the event it does. But executives and investors don't think like fans, they don't want games to be ''back to the glory days'' or whatever. They want money for their investment, and that's it. Except when DA2 was a gigantic failure, as a direct result of EA's unreasonable demands, they doubled the budget and gave the DA team 5 years, instead of 18 months. EA does not treat Bioware like they've treated past developers like Maxis, Westwood etc. They have consistently given Bioware a second chance after a "bad" game. Yes, and they created DAI, probably the most boring RPG they have ever created, besides Andromeda. The problem is EA itself. They refuse to pay enough money or allow enough freedom for BioWare to advance. It is no secret that the first ME was the game which BioWare finally started to evolve itself from its past design template, which had become completely stale. For the first time characters felt like real characters, not like info drones. But when EA took over the series started becoming more and more action and less RPG, resulting in Andromeda. There are many changes that need to be done for BioWare to even compete with CD Projekt. Osbidian and PoE are generally boring old school rpgs, they show no advancement in writing, dialogue, etc. So, using them, is certainly not the way forward.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 26, 2017 15:48:23 GMT
Except when DA2 was a gigantic failure, as a direct result of EA's unreasonable demands, they doubled the budget and gave the DA team 5 years, instead of 18 months. EA does not treat Bioware like they've treated past developers like Maxis, Westwood etc. They have consistently given Bioware a second chance after a "bad" game. Because their games aren't really failures in the end. That, and the fact that BioWare is too valuable as a brand to let go at this point. And Maxis wasn't? They made The Sims for gods sake, the most popular and highest selling game franchise of all time until EA killed it.
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Post by lyvean on Mar 26, 2017 15:48:53 GMT
Except when DA2 was a gigantic failure, as a direct result of EA's unreasonable demands, they doubled the budget and gave the DA team 5 years, instead of 18 months. EA does not treat Bioware like they've treated past developers like Maxis, Westwood etc. They have consistently given Bioware a second chance after a "bad" game. Because their games aren't really failures in the end. That, and the fact that BioWare is too valuable as a brand to let go at this point. BioWare's brand is not too valuable. It is... valuable. The ME series, which has the most sales, has generally sold less now than the Witcher series. BioWare are valuable but nowhere near as valuable as they were. But EA also has the Star Wars rights. Spending proper money on an another space saga is not a proper business decision for them.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 26, 2017 15:54:18 GMT
Except when DA2 was a gigantic failure, as a direct result of EA's unreasonable demands, they doubled the budget and gave the DA team 5 years, instead of 18 months. EA does not treat Bioware like they've treated past developers like Maxis, Westwood etc. They have consistently given Bioware a second chance after a "bad" game. Yes, and they created DAI, probably the most boring RPG they have ever created, besides Andromeda. The problem is EA itself. They refuse to pay enough money or allow enough freedom for BioWare to advance. It is no secret that the first ME was the game which BioWare finally started to evolve itself from its past design template, which had become completely stale. For the first time characters felt like real characters, not like info drones. But when EA took over the series started becoming more and more action and less RPG, resulting in Andromeda. There are many changes that need to be done for BioWare to even compete with CD Projekt. Osbidian and PoE are generally boring old school rpgs, they show no advancement in writing, dialogue, etc. So, using them, is certainly not the way forward. I'm sorry you felt that way, as for myself, I found DAI to be the best DA game to date, by far. Trespasser finally elevated it above Origins for me. The Open World nature of the game is frankly my only serious complaint about it. Had they simply made their game areas smaller, we wouldn't have had a game full of "Go collect 100000000 elfroot" Otherwise, I found the story, the characters, the lore, etc all superior to Origins. As much as people love to suck that game off, it too is guilty of blatant padding and filler that served absolutely no narrative purpose, in addition to combat that I absolutely can no longer tolerate.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 26, 2017 15:54:26 GMT
Except when DA2 was a gigantic failure, as a direct result of EA's unreasonable demands, they doubled the budget and gave the DA team 5 years, instead of 18 months. EA does not treat Bioware like they've treated past developers like Maxis, Westwood etc. They have consistently given Bioware a second chance after a "bad" game. Yes, and they created DAI, probably the most boring RPG they have ever created, besides Andromeda. The problem is EA itself. They refuse to pay enough money or allow enough freedom for BioWare to advance. It is no secret that the first ME was the game which BioWare finally started to evolve itself from its past design template, which had become completely stale. For the first time characters felt like real characters, not like info drones. But when EA took over the series started becoming more and more action and less RPG, resulting in Andromeda. Q There are many changes that need to be done for BioWare to even compete with CD Projekt. Osbidian and PoE are generally boring old school rpgs, they show no advancement in writing, dialogue, etc. So, using them, is certainly not the way forward. This doesn't make sense. ME:A had plenty of money and plenty of time.
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 26, 2017 15:54:27 GMT
Because their games aren't really failures in the end. That, and the fact that BioWare is too valuable as a brand to let go at this point. And Maxis wasn't? They made The Sims for gods sake, the most popular and highest selling game franchise of all time until EA killed it. Maxis is still around, last I checked. Maxis in Emeryville is not. Might just see the same thing. BioWare is not going anywhere, but BioWare Montreal...
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 26, 2017 16:09:36 GMT
And Maxis wasn't? They made The Sims for gods sake, the most popular and highest selling game franchise of all time until EA killed it. Maxis is still around, last I checked. Maxis in Emeryville is not. Might just see the same thing. BioWare is not going anywhere, but BioWare Montreal... I have never been completely sure for what reason they shuttered Emeryville, it probably had some to do with SimCity, but at the same time it being only 20 min outside San Francisco I think it would be extremely expensive to live there. Going on second hand knowledge a friend of mine compares it to living in New York City. edit: Depending on numbers we won't see there might be personal changes at Montreal, but closing the entire studio I am not sure will happen unless EA is making other changes. Looking at the cost of living it is 20% less to live in Montreal then Toronto and 26% less then Vancouver. At the same Montreal has become a place for game development at the same time.
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Post by lysander on Mar 26, 2017 16:19:22 GMT
Except when DA2 was a gigantic failure, as a direct result of EA's unreasonable demands, they doubled the budget and gave the DA team 5 years, instead of 18 months. EA does not treat Bioware like they've treated past developers like Maxis, Westwood etc. They have consistently given Bioware a second chance after a "bad" game. Yes, and they created DAI, probably the most boring RPG they have ever created, besides Andromeda. The problem is EA itself. They refuse to pay enough money or allow enough freedom for BioWare to advance. It is no secret that the first ME was the game which BioWare finally started to evolve itself from its past design template, which had become completely stale. For the first time characters felt like real characters, not like info drones. But when EA took over the series started becoming more and more action and less RPG, resulting in Andromeda. There are many changes that need to be done for BioWare to even compete with CD Projekt. Osbidian and PoE are generally boring old school rpgs, they show no advancement in writing, dialogue, etc. So, using them, is certainly not the way forward. Good thing your individual subjective opinion isn't an actual metric by which to measure Inquisition's objective success. It won Game of the Year, sold great and has a huge, thriving fanbase. All this doom and gloom is completely overblown.
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Post by finoderi on Mar 26, 2017 17:22:02 GMT
DAI better than DAO? Trespasser could elevate anything? Good god... For me Trespasser became the true end of Dragon Age series. Narrative incoherence is beyond any boundaries. The whole concept of ancient god-like entity creating fade and then deciding to kill everybody for lulz is not just stupid, it's undescribable... They already did this by inventing cosmic child thad couldn't cobble two words together and here we go again. It's the most stupid abolishment of the lore I've ever seen in games.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Mar 26, 2017 17:38:22 GMT
Hopefully well enough for them to green light another game.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2017 17:59:16 GMT
DA2 wasn't actually a failure sales wise and sold more than Origins. Actually, none of Bioware's games have been a flop in sales so far despite what the internet will tell you. Inquisition was their best selling game ever even. Not true. As near as I can tell, DA2 has sold ~ 1/2 the number of copies that DAO has sold. They even announced in the forums when DA2 had sold 2M. It was financially viable because it cost much less to produce - although some of DAO's cost was the initial world-building. And Maxis wasn't? They made The Sims for gods sake, the most popular and highest selling game franchise of all time until EA killed it. Maxis is still around, last I checked. Maxis in Emeryville is not. Might just see the same thing. BioWare is not going anywhere, but BioWare Montreal... Yep - and some of the later expansions for The Sims 3 (along with promos for TS4, IIRC) featured the Maxis logo.
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Post by argentus on Mar 26, 2017 18:02:28 GMT
Please let this game flop commercially to be a cautionary tale of quantity over quality like NMS. EA and Bioware need this kind of slap in the face so the corporate checklisters actually will do something useful for a change, maybe 1 game too late. I highly doubt the game is going to flop commercially, it probably will be considered a flop by the people who go online and post about games, but that isn't the large part of the purchasing power anymore. This is a checklist game, but not an EA checklist, but a fan checklist. Look at all the features in the game and those are things that people have been saying are needed in a Mass Effect game. People wanted large worlds to roam with a rover, a lot of interactions with your squad, fluid combat, crafting system, and more. this. i'm loving the game so far. annoyed at the lack of quarians and I preferred the cover system of the originals (back to the wall instead of simply crouching next to cover) but otherwise it has so much I love.
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Post by shechinah on Mar 26, 2017 18:07:09 GMT
This is a checklist game, but not an EA checklist, but a fan checklist. Look at all the features in the game and those are things that people have been saying are needed in a Mass Effect game. People wanted large worlds to roam with a rover, a lot of interactions with your squad, fluid combat, crafting system, and more. It's certainly what I wanted and I love it
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Post by Arcian on Mar 26, 2017 18:07:17 GMT
MEA has a 74 Metacritic score, not quite good even by the "professional" reviewers standards. Did you see who gave it negative reviews? Seriously can we stop sucking the **** of reviewers who give a biased opinion? It's funny to me how before this the internet was shouting how reviews don't matter, and now they're God's gift to man. It would have a much higher metacritic review if "gamesbeat, and the daily dot"(never heard of her), hadn't given it a 50. Every other review is 70-95, which means it would be sitting at a decent 80 average. When ME3 received only positive reviews amidst the ending controversy: "Stop complaining, the reviewers are professional and they know what they're doing. Their reviews reflect the quality of the game. You're just hating on the game for no reason." The same people, after ME:A has received the most negative critic reviews of any ME game: "You can't trust these hack critics. They complain about pointless things and nitpick endlessly. The only thing that matters is your own judgment." Make up your minds, ya babies.
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Post by Camel on Mar 26, 2017 18:13:45 GMT
DA2 wasn't actually a failure sales wise and sold more than Origins. Link? What's your source?
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Post by clips7 on Mar 26, 2017 18:16:57 GMT
Yeah...I don't think we should want the game to fail. EA would just shelf the series...*Looks at Dead Space*....even if it doesn't sell well, I think it will do well enough to warrant another game....they do have the Star-Wars franchise, but I have never been a fan of Star Wars regardless of how similar the Mass Effect series might be...so if they ever cancel this series, that will be a wrap for me...
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Post by Camel on Mar 26, 2017 18:18:56 GMT
MEA has a 74 Metacritic score, not quite good even by the "professional" reviewers standards. Did you see who gave it negative reviews? Seriously can we stop sucking the **** of reviewers who give a biased opinion? It's funny to me how before this the internet was shouting how reviews don't matter, and now they're God's gift to man. It would have a much higher metacritic review if "gamesbeat, and the daily dot"(never heard of her), hadn't given it a 50. Every other review is 70-95, which means it would be sitting at a decent 80 average. IGN gave MEA a 7,7 out of 10. When IGN gives your game anything less than 9 you know you're in trouble.
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Post by joglee on Mar 26, 2017 18:33:12 GMT
Did you see who gave it negative reviews? Seriously can we stop sucking the **** of reviewers who give a biased opinion? It's funny to me how before this the internet was shouting how reviews don't matter, and now they're God's gift to man. It would have a much higher metacritic review if "gamesbeat, and the daily dot"(never heard of her), hadn't given it a 50. Every other review is 70-95, which means it would be sitting at a decent 80 average. When ME3 received only positive reviews amidst the ending controversy: "Stop complaining, the reviewers are professional and they know what they're doing. Their reviews reflect the quality of the game. You're just hating on the game for no reason." The same people, after ME:A has received the most negative critic reviews of any ME game: "You can't trust these hack critics. They complain about pointless things and nitpick endlessly. The only thing that matters is your own judgment." Make up your minds, ya babies. Reviews have always been crap. It's just one man's opinion who is paid to post his opinion.
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Post by joglee on Mar 26, 2017 18:34:55 GMT
Did you see who gave it negative reviews? Seriously can we stop sucking the **** of reviewers who give a biased opinion? It's funny to me how before this the internet was shouting how reviews don't matter, and now they're God's gift to man. It would have a much higher metacritic review if "gamesbeat, and the daily dot"(never heard of her), hadn't given it a 50. Every other review is 70-95, which means it would be sitting at a decent 80 average. IGN gave MEA a 7,7 out of 10. When IGN gives your game anything less than 9 you know you're in trouble. Lol no. You can't spell ignorance without IGN. I'm amazed how everyone is bowing down and sucking IGNs toes this time around. Than again I guess Vigil should have just given up with the Darksiders games when IGN only gave them an 8 and 7.5. So in my opinion IGN rated ME:A on par with DS 1/2...Two of my absolute favorite games. Then again IGN gave DOOM a 7.1, despite being the best entry to the series since the original. While at the same time giving Fallout 4 a 9.5, despite being the worst entrant in the series yet, gutting numerous RPG aspects and making it basically a shallow open world fps.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 26, 2017 18:37:48 GMT
DAI better than DAO? Trespasser could elevate anything? Good god... For me Trespasser became the true end of Dragon Age series. Narrative incoherence is beyond any boundaries. The whole concept of ancient god-like entity creating fade and then deciding to kill everybody for lulz is not just stupid, it's undescribable... They already did this by inventing cosmic child thad couldn't cobble two words together and here we go again. It's the most stupid abolishment of the lore I've ever seen in games. I get that you've entered the "make up bad stuff about a game I don't like" phase, but "for lulz" doesn't make any sense. It's the opposite of the truth. And technically, didn't he create the physical world rather than the Fade? I suppose it depends on how we define the pre-Veil world.
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