linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 24, 2016 12:40:15 GMT
In yet another... questionable... decision in a series of questionable decisions piled on a mediocre PC port, Square Enix added the option to buy in game currency and skill points ("Praxis kits") to Deus Ex: MD. Now, micro-transactions in a single player game are a bitter enough pill to swallow on their own, however, it seems that there's something that makes Square Enix look even greedier in this case: One would assume that if you bought something in-game with Real Money, that it would become available to you again in the next play through - meaning that this 5 praxis kit "booster pack" would be used as a permanent boost for creating new saves in the game, rather than a one time affair... Guess what? Nope. You pay your real world money, for a one time boost in skill points or credits. If you want another "boost" in your next play through, you are welcome to pay again. Oh, by the way, that was true even for any pre-order / "season pack" in-game bonuses as well, but according to some reviews on Steam they may have changed that due to consumer reaction. I don't remember any other game in recent memory that did something similar. Oh wait, that's not really true, is it? There was also Dead Space 3, and DS3 belongs to ( drum roll) our beloved overlords - EA. If you don't remember or didn't play Dead Space 3, the game had a store that allowed you to buy scrap packages and scrap collection boosters (to upgrade weapons) with real world money. So what is the connection to ME:A? Simple. The success or failure of this greedy Square Enix initiative, may influence EA to return to the grand ideas they had for Dead Space 3. P.S. Public Service Announcement:
After I heard about this travesty, I immediately went and used Cheat Engine on Deus Ex: MD, and in a few minutes I managed to give Jensen half a million credits and two hundred Praxis Kits. And I am far from an advanced user of this program, this was done by using a very basic check with the program. (i.e. enter your current amount of credits / praxis kits, either add or subtract from that amount by buying / selling something or using praxis, enter the new amount to the program and search, repeat until you find a single address or a few addresses, then you just need to change the correct one to whatever amount you want.) So if you feel the need to cheat (let's not play with company-speak like "boost") and you are fortunate enough to play on PC, don't give Square Enix your cash for nothing when you have quite a few programs out there that can achieve the same result for free. There is a caveat to all of this, and that is how intrusive the packs are. One thing I should note with Dead Space 3, which was a fear that never materialized, was that it was not necessary to buy any scrap at all. In fact, you found most of the scrap quite easily in-game without even using the transactions. I can't speak for Deus Ex, but I do have to say, and this is an old argument I guess, but, does the option of microtransactions in-game really become egregious when they are optional portions of the game? |
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Post by Ieldra on Aug 24, 2016 12:44:07 GMT
There is a caveat to all of this, and that is how intrusive the packs are. One thing I should note with Dead Space 3, which was a fear that never materialized, was that it was not necessary to buy any scrap at all. In fact, you found most of the scrap quite easily in-game without even using the transactions. I can't speak for Deus Ex, but I do have to say, and this is an old argument I guess, but, does the option of microtransactions in-game really become egregious when they are optional portions of the game? Apparently this is completely optional, and of course if it is, it does not present a problem as such. What I fear is that this serves as a door-opener for more intrusive designs. So yes, gamers should cry out loud about how much they don't like it. |
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 24, 2016 12:53:05 GMT
There is a caveat to all of this, and that is how intrusive the packs are. One thing I should note with Dead Space 3, which was a fear that never materialized, was that it was not necessary to buy any scrap at all. In fact, you found most of the scrap quite easily in-game without even using the transactions. I can't speak for Deus Ex, but I do have to say, and this is an old argument I guess, but, does the option of microtransactions in-game really become egregious when they are optional portions of the game? Apparently this is completely optional, and of course if it is, it does not present a problem as such. What I fear is that this serves as a door-opener for more intrusive designs. So yes, gamers should cry out loud about how much they don't like it. Two things though. First, thats a full on slippery slope argument and I never agreed with it. Not to mention it implies all microtransactions are intrusive...which it is not the case of course for every game out there, that depends on game design over the feature. Two, they can cry as they see fit, that's fine, but I ask what alternative strategy would you suggest then for game developers to make revenue then, because let's face it, this is so companies can keep making games. My only thought is to just finally bite the bullet and raise game prices to match current inflation, so we're talking close to $70-$80 bucks. |
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 24, 2016 13:07:20 GMT
Two things though. First, thats a full on slippery slope argument and I never agreed with it. Not to mention it implies all microtransactions are intrusive...which it is not the case of course for every game out there, that depends on game design over the feature. Two, they can cry as they see fit, that's fine, but I ask what alternative strategy would you suggest then for game developers to make revenue then, because let's face it, this is so companies can keep making games. My only thought is to just finally bite the bullet and raise game prices to match current inflation, so we're talking close to $70-$80 bucks. Slippery slope is hardly a fallacy when it comes to how corporations make money, they seek the path of least resistance, and they exploit it. Simple as that. As for how companies can make money: Well, I doubt EA is starving, and as to your question - not like that. If you provide no solution, then I argue that's part of the problem in of itself. That is not how business works of course, if you are doing something your customers don't like, you fix it, but you do so in a way where you keep the status quo. The status quo right now is simple- companies need money. It's not a question of how much or whose starving, it's a question of how to you keep pace with a demand that is outpacing them? |
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Post by Ieldra on Aug 24, 2016 13:42:26 GMT
The status quo right now is simple- companies need money. It's not a question of how much or whose starving, it's a question of how to you keep pace with a demand that is outpacing them? Need is subjective to a large degree. Do they need more money than selling the game will give them? It's more that they *want* more money. Always. I don't blame them for that - I want more money, too, after all - but gating an easier game mode behind more money comes acrosss as immoral to me, and raises the question of where this will end. I can always stop playing of course. Playing games, while really nice, is hardly the most important thing in my life, but as a matter of preference, I'd rather not stop. Oh, and personally, I wouldn't mind a 20% raise in game prices overall all that much. Game production for AAA titles has become significantly more complex while prices remained almost stable for quite some time. Perhaps the pressure to make only blockbusters would lessen a bit if that happened. |
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Post by Sartoz on Aug 24, 2016 13:48:42 GMT
<<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>
I don't like the idea of SP micro$transactions.
EA loves to boast in their quarterly financial statements how much money they make via "extra content". To me, it means that EA gives the game studios a mandate to design the games with this revenue stream in mind. The studio, in turn will design the game to "encourage" the player to execute these micro$transactions.
Thus, I expect Bio to bow to EA's "extra content" revenue stream directive (see DA:I). The question is how well Bio will implement this "feature" to avoid massive player discontent ( a possible reason for the BSN being nuked?). With the possibility of a game mechanic of SP-to-MP crossover, a "boost" micro$transaction that gives the SP player a better chance at survival or obtaining better gear in Horde mode is conceivable.
We will have to wait and see until the game comes out.
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Gileadan
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 24, 2016 13:55:12 GMT
It's apparently some the big AAA studios that seem to need more money, so maybe they should just cut down their budgets and/or team size according to the expected sales of their product. Dev studios that delay games for six months or an entire year are clearly having problems, and maybe those problems should be taken care of before charging their customers extra for the longer development time.
It's still quite possible for studios to be successful with games that aren't even sold at full AAA price. For example, the two minor Steam surprise hits "Warhammer: The End Times - Vermintide" (by Fatshark, Stockholm) and "Battlefleet Gothic: Armada" (by Tindalos Interactive, Paris) sold well enough for both studios to change their development schedule to producing additional content for their current games instead of taking on the next project.
Then there's games like "Path of Exile", which, at least during the time I played it, was financed completely by selling cosmetic content.
Another DLC approach is that of Sega, who basically sell you more little content slices as time goes on. More factions to play in Total War: Warhammer and Company of Heroes 2, for example, which I find quite okay.
It gets obnoxious in CoH2 though, where you can buy dozens of camo skins for vehicles (purchased separately for each of the three weight classes), which is okay with me since it's completely optional and can also drop as loot after a match. And then there are so-called Commanders, essentially a skill tree for your army to level up along during a match. Here it gets a bit iffy in my opinion, since many special abilities and some vehicles are unique to some commanders and will never be available to you unless you buy that commander for cash. Want to field a Ferdinand heavy tank destroyer in the game? Better buy the commander who can call it in.
But ultimately my advice would be: don't pour big budgets into mediocre titles. No business on earth can afford that unless they've got a total monopoly going.
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 24, 2016 16:12:32 GMT
The status quo right now is simple- companies need money. It's not a question of how much or whose starving, it's a question of how to you keep pace with a demand that is outpacing them? Need is subjective to a large degree. Do they need more money than selling the game will give them? It's more that they *want* more money. Always. I don't blame them for that - I want more money, too, after all - but gating an easier game mode behind more money comes acrosss as immoral to me, and raises the question of where this will end. I can always stop playing of course. Playing games, while really nice, is hardly the most important thing in my life, but as a matter of preference, I'd rather not stop. Oh, and personally, I wouldn't mind a 20% raise in game prices overall all that much. Game production for AAA titles has become significantly more complex while prices remained almost stable for quite some time. Perhaps the pressure to make only blockbusters would lessen a bit if that happened. Part of the reason for the "gating" and DLC and microtransactions is the lack of a 20% increase id say- people barely want to spend $60 on a game now, imagine spending close to $80 on it before taxes in the U.S, or even higher in places like the U.K and Brazil, folks would riot against that for sure. Production costs are estimated to be close to $25-$30 million on average now I believe, and for a game to be successful it needs to make back that budget at $60 a pop in the AAA space, so roughly 2.5-3 million copies on average, after you break down costs and divide it up. The thing is, most games even at that price and that budget, are going to at best break even. Most studios recoup or absorb that cost through other means or divisions. The anomalies are Call of Duty or GTA, they had budgets close to $500 million I believe at one point, including marketing, but they are as close as you get to a blockbuster, raking in that amount nine times out of then. So the numbers look impressive, but the costs is so damn high to hit those numbers it's actually not making as much bank as people believe. There are a few trends that have been beneficial due to this, DLC and Digital sales give more money to developers and producers, so they are constantly used and pushed hard for sales and revenue- it also keeps teams going longer because of the service model of support, Patches and new content for a year or so after release. Microtransactions is just another one of those trends to recoup costs, and studios try anything they can to show that service model, even though many argue it's anti-consumer. |
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Post by straykat on Aug 24, 2016 16:49:17 GMT
It's gamers' faults for it even coming to this.
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Post by straykat on Aug 24, 2016 17:11:11 GMT
It's gamers' faults for it even coming to this. But... I thought that " gamers are dead"... Leigh Alexander probably eating beans and rice atm.... Seriously though, there's always going to be parasites, but gamers a whole aren't a very empowered bunch.. we open doors for greater and greater parasites, just by not voting with our wallets. I say collectively "we", even if I'm not particularly guilty  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2016 17:36:07 GMT
Two things though. First, thats a full on slippery slope argument and I never agreed with it. Not to mention it implies all microtransactions are intrusive...which it is not the case of course for every game out there, that depends on game design over the feature. Two, they can cry as they see fit, that's fine, but I ask what alternative strategy would you suggest then for game developers to make revenue then, because let's face it, this is so companies can keep making games. My only thought is to just finally bite the bullet and raise game prices to match current inflation, so we're talking close to $70-$80 bucks. Slippery slope is hardly a fallacy when it comes to how corporations make money, they seek the path of least resistance, and they exploit it. Simple as that. As for how companies can make money: Well, I doubt EA is starving, and as to your question - not like that. I'm sorry, but hackers show great disrespect for the developers already by riding their mods on the coat-tails of popular games... essentially "stealing" away the ideas and art of the originators of that game and "monetizing" it for their own benefit by attracting internet users to their own websites... where advertising revenue goes to the modder or hacker. I'm not one who is inclined to purchase microtransactions from a developer but I'm even less inclined to support a modder enabling that same "idea" through a hack. I'd rather play the game as the developer originally intended it to be played... even if that means that some things are in very short supply. |
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 24, 2016 17:44:14 GMT
It's gamers' faults for it even coming to this. But... I thought that " gamers are dead"... Certainly not dead. Just arrogant at times. |
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Post by straykat on Aug 24, 2016 17:46:01 GMT
Certainly not dead. Just arrogant at times. Arrogant AND bad with their money.  |
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 24, 2016 17:48:48 GMT
Certainly not dead. Just arrogant at times. Arrogant AND bad with their money. Well, even that I don't necessarily agree with. People over-estimate the power of their "wallets" in that regard. It goes back to the whole Pareto Principle where 80% of your outcomes is done through 20% of the people. It doesn't really matter who is buying what, what matters is people are buying. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 24, 2016 17:53:05 GMT
If you don't like/want the stuff, don't buy it. There, a simple solution to a simple problem.
As long as their isn't anything exclusive to the microtransactions, I have absolutely no issues with the practice.
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Post by straykat on Aug 24, 2016 17:54:28 GMT
Arrogant AND bad with their money. Well, even that I don't necessarily agree with. People over-estimate the power of their "wallets" in that regard. It goes back to the whole Pareto Principle where 80% of your outcomes is done through 20% of the people. It doesn't really matter who is buying what, what matters is people are buying. I don't think these things would exist if they didn't see how gamers are in this respect. They're taking advantage of an easy exploitable market. They'll keep pushing the boundaries too, and I don't know when enough is finally enough. Other type of consumers seem to fight back more, quicker. I don't know why it's this way, but it is. Could be that many gamers still live off of their parent's credit cards, so don't value the money in the first place. Or maybe a lot are single college aged dudes, with disposable cash.. ruining it for everyone else. |
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 24, 2016 18:22:41 GMT
Certainly not dead. Just arrogant at times. Being an opinionated consumer does not make one arrogant. Having a platform on a gaming website and thinking that this entitles one to judge a huge diverse crowd and paint them with one brush - does. You're right. Although again, opinionated doesn't always mean you can say what you want. I take umbrage to that more than anything else. |
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 24, 2016 18:50:08 GMT
You're right. Although again, opinionated doesn't always mean you can say what you want. As long as you don't threaten anyone - yes you absolutely can say what you want. It's called the freedom of speech. Not exactly true, actually. The harm principle is kind of dead at this point. Legally in the U.S at least, you actually have the right to threaten someone, even though you shouldn't under the constitution in some instances. Although the court case that involved it referred to political speech over general hate speech, many cite Brandenburg v Ohio now because of it. It also is a loose interpretation of harm. General rule of that is what you refer too, as long as you don't threaten anyone, but even then it's not absolute. So it's up to people to basically make those judgement calls with the law. For example, calling someone a bitch on racist on twitter is harassment, but not harmful to some. One can argue that saying you should kill someone is. Ultimately though context is important in all instances, because folks judge speech differently, despite this belief that it's always free. Plus we have limitations on speech through censuring, censorship and all that, but most of this is a willing exchange for security anyway, so it should be square. |
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 24, 2016 19:27:34 GMT
Not exactly true, actually. The harm principle is kind of dead at this point. Legally in the U.S at least, you actually have the right to threaten someone, even though you shouldn't under the constitution in some instances. Although the court case that involved it referred to political speech over general hate speech, many cite Brandenburg v Ohio now because of it. It also is a loose interpretation of harm. General rule of that is what you refer too, as long as you don't threaten anyone, but even then it's not absolute. So it's up to people to basically make those judgement calls with the law. For example, calling someone a bitch on racist on twitter is harassment, but not harmful to some. One can argue that saying you should kill someone is. Ultimately though context is important in all instances, because folks judge speech differently, despite this belief that it's always free. Plus we have limitations on speech through censuring, censorship and all that, but most of this is a willing exchange for security anyway, so it should be square. I'm not going to go into the intricacies of "harm". (Unless you mean that consumers shouldn't criticize a product because it "harms" the company and their stock value?... I don't think you meant to go that far into the Orwellian) And, I don't support idiots who throw around death threats on the internet. But aside from that, almost everything should be under "free speech". Even nastiness that I don't agree with. Of course, this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, which is criticizing a company for acting like a bull in a china shop and letting greed win over common sense. No, I don't mean that. Sorry, going into teacher mode in two days, this is more or less the first few lessons we got to cover. I guess I got a bit carried away. I still disagree with Square Acting like a Bull in a China Shop though. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 24, 2016 19:28:02 GMT
Of course, this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, which is criticizing a company for acting like a bull in a china shop and letting greed win over common sense. So...super careful then? Because that's how bulls actually act in china shops. |
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 24, 2016 19:41:32 GMT
Ubisoft refer to these as 'time savers'.
The problem comes when their beneficial use in game necessitates their purchase (Elder Scrolls Online horses anyone?).
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 24, 2016 19:43:14 GMT
Ubisoft refer to these as 'time savers'. The problem comes when their beneficial use in game necessitates their purchase (Elder Scrolls Online horses anyone?). I haven't played Deus Ex, but is buying this thing necessary Laughing Man? |
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Nov 17, 2024 22:23:52 GMT
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Hanako Ikezawa
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August 2016
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 24, 2016 19:48:30 GMT
Ubisoft refer to these as 'time savers'. The problem comes when their beneficial use in game necessitates their purchase (Elder Scrolls Online horses anyone?). I haven't played Deus Ex, but is buying this thing necessary Laughing Man? As someone who has completed the game without buying a single microtransaction, the answer is no they are not necessary for beating Deus Ex: Mankind Divided. |
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Mad Hermit
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Aug 11, 2016 16:33:09 GMT
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straykat
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Aug 10, 2016 11:00:20 GMT
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Post by straykat on Aug 24, 2016 20:11:33 GMT
I don't think these things would exist if they didn't see how gamers are in this respect. They're taking advantage of an easy exploitable market. They'll keep pushing the boundaries too, and I don't know when enough is finally enough. Other type of consumers seem to fight back more, quicker. I don't know why it's this way, but it is. Could be that many gamers still live off of their parent's credit cards, so don't value the money in the first place. Or maybe a lot are single college aged dudes, with disposable cash.. ruining it for everyone else. I fail to see how a backlash over bad business practices and general sloppiness is "ruining it for everyone". I'm not living out on anyone else's credit card, hell, I helped my parents financially in the past. I will be open to the idea of higher quality products for higher prices, not psychological manipulation and greedy price gouging. I mean, who do you think a "package" of few skill points (in a SP game!) for 2-5 Euro is targeting? Logical adults? Why do you think I'm talking about you? lol.. Nothing wrong with pointing out these practices, but I'm just saying who's ultimately allowing the situation.. and allowing it to get worse. |
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kizanare
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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kizanare
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kizanare
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by kizanare on Aug 24, 2016 20:29:01 GMT
Eh... I don't know... on some level
I definitely think there is something to the notion that gamers don't necessarily value sheer monetary numbers... there aren't really very many like "billionaire" gamers or anything, sure, you have like Hiroshi Yamauchi of Nintendo and/or like the ID software guys Romero etc... and I'm sure many gamers would not mind a ton of money.
And yet lots of completely established, etc, people like Shigeru Miyamoto just take their regular salary as if they never... you know what I mean?
But then again, if there are gamers who I don't know, are super... I honestly saw a thread of "gamer setups" in neogaf and holy smokes a lot of those people were clearly freaking loaded, and honestly, if they want to just buy the smack out of any tiny DLC for a franchise, well then...
I think a lot of people just aren't comfortable with the notion that "they" are greedy, in a sense, for the franchise, they have to have the LE, they have to have the this, the that, their attachment is so strong, and things like the DLC bring this out.
But ultimately? If you take out a person's comfort there, I think the Gekko principle applies.
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