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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 13, 2017 2:05:52 GMT
There's a difference between knowing a place exists and actually visiting it though. A lot of the planets and systems in the game are far different from the long-range telemetry gathered in the Milky Way indicated, either as a result of the Scourge, other unexplained stellar phenomena or the data being found to be inaccurate. Just because a map (or star chart) tells you something, doesn't mean it's true. Early Spanish explorers believed that California was an island not connected to the mainland of North America, leading it to being depicted that way on maps for centuries, despite how many people pointed out no-one had actually ever circumnavigated it. It was only in the late 18th century that the matter was finally settled, after an expedition traversed the region and finally disproved the theory beyond all doubt. That's why Ryder exploring and surveying Heleus is so important, regardless of whether someone else (native, Kett or exiles) actually got there first. Until Ryder showed up, the Initiative had barely explored two nearby star systems, with most of their knowledge of the Cluster being based on outdated information and telemetry collected from the Milky Way. Except that's not why SAM is important. SAM is important because SAM can interact with Remnant technology. SAM doesn't explore or chart planets, SAM just activates vaults and do fetch quests. Fixed.
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Post by SofNascimento on Apr 13, 2017 2:08:59 GMT
Except that's not why SAM is important. SAM is important because SAM can interact with Remnant technology. SAM doesn't explore or chart planets, SAM just activates vaults and do fetch quests. Fixed. I find changing what other people said is extremely inelegant. I do not approve.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 13, 2017 2:14:10 GMT
I find changing what other people said is extremely inelegant. I do not approve. I dont think anyone has ever accused ne of being elegant in the first place, Frank. ;p
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 2:19:14 GMT
So, I don't know if this was discussed already. The 'helius Cluster' is puzzling me a bit. I understood that it was jsut one group of stars, like hades Gamma cluster in the MW.. But none of the MW clusters has its own black hole.. this suggests helius is really a dwarf galaxy or something. Does this make sense? Or did Bioware really mean cluster, but someone decided having a black hole there was cool? Heleus is part of the Andromeda galaxy, the cluster is just near (or includes) a black hole. The black hole in the game however is different from the supermassive blackhole that is at the center of the Andromeda galaxy, that the rest of the stuff within Andromeda is orbiting. The one in/near Heleus is presumably a lot less massive. Galaxies can have multiple black holes within them. At least 35 have been found so far in Andromeda and the Milky Way is thought to have as many as 100 million. Andromeda may have more, since it is larger and contains more stuff than the Milky Way.
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Post by Sifr on Apr 13, 2017 2:23:19 GMT
Except that's not why Ryder is important. He/She is important because she can interact with Remnant technology. You don't explore or chart planets, you just activate vaults and do fetch quests. I never said that's the only reason why Ryder was important, only that exploration is an important job. Exploring, surveying and charting planets was intended to be the primary role of the Pathfinder and we do see Ryder carry out this task in the game, even if the situation with the Kett and Remnant vaults takes priority. As pointed out before, no-one else in the Initiative was actively exploring the cluster before the Hyperion arrived, after many research teams found themselves victims of the Scourge or Kett ambushes. We often hear from Suvi and Kallo when entering new systems that many are largely unknown, rarely visited or lie well off the beaten path. The Tempest itself also seems to be one of the few actual ships equipped for long-range travel around the cluster. Most everyone else seems to rely on smaller shuttlecraft to ferry passengers or cargo between habitable worlds or colonial outposts. Even if Ryder isn't physically stepping foot on every single planet in Heleus, even an brief orbital survey or dropping a few probes will gather important research for scientists back in the Nexus, data that they can pour over for years to come. Planetary flybys by probes were one of the main ways that we first gained a better understanding of our own solar system. This is why Dr Aridana tasks us with visiting and scan 50 worlds. While obviously a fetch quest, it's a good example of one that works because it fits the lore and setting. Not only does the information gathered help the Nexus scientists, but lets their schoolchildren build a more accurate orrery for a class project. It may not be as exciting as activating Remnant vaults, but it's important to get to know the lay of the land if you're new to the neighbourhood.
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Solona Amell
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Post by Elsariel on Apr 13, 2017 2:42:45 GMT
So, I don't know if this was discussed already. The 'helius Cluster' is puzzling me a bit. I understood that it was jsut one group of stars, like hades Gamma cluster in the MW.. But none of the MW clusters has its own black hole.. this suggests helius is really a dwarf galaxy or something. Does this make sense? Or did Bioware really mean cluster, but someone decided having a black hole there was cool? I think it's a mystery why the black hole is there to begin with. Don't you send a probe out there and they say it's unusual and mysterious or something? I have a feeling it'll come into play later.
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warlorejohn
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Chemo stoped working, no chemo left for my cancer type.
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Post by warlorejohn on Apr 13, 2017 2:56:07 GMT
It's a small black hole about as small as Deuteronomy 12 solar masses meaning 12 times the mass of our sun you can scan it but not probe it
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peabuddie
N2
You did good, kid.
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Post by peabuddie on Apr 13, 2017 4:25:41 GMT
Oh man, where do I start?!? I mean, I kinda like the game on it's own but they should have made this a new IP or a reboot or a parallel universe or something because it just doesn't fit into the ME universe as we knew it at all (and I say this despite the fact that I usually despise reboots and parallel universes and that sort of thing). Let's start with the premise: Why go to Andromeda? In 2185 1% of the Milky Way is explored. You don't need to be 600 years in cryo and take the most stupid-ass risk in history to get a fresh start or satisfy your inner urge to explore at that point. I am not through the game yet and maybe there is some secret reason (I am just saying: reapers) that would make this more believable but even if there is, the whole "fresh start/pioneer spirit" thing seems to be motivation for most low level people you can ask and that already makes no sense. This by the way is also a problem while playing because to me, all those people in the AI aren't brave, they are simply stupid. For example, when we arrive at the Nexus and are supposed to be like "Oh noooo, this can't be happening!!!", I was outright laughing at them thinking "You idiots!!! This was so completely unnecessary and stupid, you deserve what you got." (and if I think my own protagonist is stupid, it doesn't help with identification wither(. Then, there is the technology they used: An ODSY drive would have made a HUGE difference for the original trilogy plot. Not only could the Milky Way people have outmaneuvered the reapers to some extent, who clearly don't have that technology. The bigger problem is that even the faint possibility to cross dark space and travel to other galaxies makes the reapers' cycle of extinction scheme a complete and utter joke. "Yea, we'll keep the Milky Way in check with the cycles and if synthetics develop in other galaxies, where they are a couple of billion years ahead of us in development because we just hibernate and do the same shit all over again every 50.000 years without progress, I am sure it'll be fine" It's even more BS now than it used to be. And Shepard doesn't even mention this (well, it wasn't retconned yet at the time, right?). Tech Nr. 2: SAM. SAM is a complete and utter violation of council rules on A.I. but all four council races built one without the council stepping in? Did they keep it secret? Oh, I am sure the council didn't mind them building "SAM nodes" into their dreadnought sized ARK ships without supervision or control. Governments usually don't care, right? Oh and what about a bunch of private investors building a space station almost as big as the Citadel itself just like that within 10 years that is also capable of flying to another galaxy? I am sure that was easy. Timelines: When the Andromeda Initiative was founded, humans had interstellar space flight for just over 20 years. and first contact happened 15 years before. Yet, a private human businesswoman has the cloud to start the most ambitious undertaking in the history of at the very least this reaper cycle (if not all cycles) as a multilateral cooperative endeavor evolving almost all MW species. She did this despite the fact that the other species and their galactic economies are millenia older and more advanced? I mean, the ME timeline was always shoddy at best but this brings it to a whole other level. They take Krogan to Andromeda and try to cure the genophage (by trying to run gene therapy during cryosleep, which is complete BS on its own but ok). I mean, I am sure the salarians and turians on the initiative were thrilled about that idea, right? I could go one for ages like this, those are just some points from the top of my head. While I do agree that the Asari male thing is just stupid and takes away from the species' interest factor, at least they just decided to call themselves something different, I can worl with that even if I think it was unnecessary and stupid. I do not buy some of the fundamental premises of this setup though and while I do really like the game itself, I'll never be able to play it without some measure of contempt because of those issues. I am not entirely through the story yet but if they don't come up with something absolutely amazing at some point, calling this Mass Effect is a bit of a farce. Timelines: When the Andromeda Initiative was founded, humans had interstellar space flight for just over 20 years. and first contact happened 15 years before. Yet, a private human businesswoman has the cloud to start the most ambitious undertaking in the history of at the very least this reaper cycle (if not all cycles) as a multilateral cooperative endeavor evolving almost all MW species. She did this despite the fact that the other species and their galactic economies are millenia older and more advanced? I mean, the ME timeline was always shoddy at best but this brings it to a whole other level THIS. So much this. It would take years! decades even to build the arks and a Citadel type of environment. The citadel! something they literally just found out about in this generation. Not even one human generation had passed after having found the Citadel . Impossible to even suspend belief on that one. Not to mention the ENORMOUS amount of money and labor it would take to build all of these things. That kind of money moving around the economy not noticed by any financial regulators and institutions. No way. No one noticed all the traffic going back and forth to wherever they built this stuff? Traffic control, customs just so many ways that this kind of project could not stay hidden for long. This is Fantasy alright, in the most strict meaning of the word.
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peabuddie
N2
You did good, kid.
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Post by peabuddie on Apr 13, 2017 4:29:06 GMT
Maybe it's because you're an anthropocentric dick that you feel like that? What? I second this, What?
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whanzephruseke
N2
The fic must flow.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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The fic must flow.
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Post by whanzephruseke on Apr 13, 2017 4:29:53 GMT
Meh, all bugs in the universal translator. And we know that thing is bugged, as it repeatedly refuses to translate 'Keelah selai' Because there is no English equivalent. It is not translatable, only explainable.
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peabuddie
N2
You did good, kid.
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You did good, kid.
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Post by peabuddie on Apr 13, 2017 4:31:23 GMT
It's not like humans ever invent additional genders or identities to make themselves feel special from the rest, right? Ugh, they even added the "I'm so sorry for using wrong gender pronouns" thing with that angara. Ugh, what's next? "Krogan lives matter?"Hey! Krogan lives DO matter!
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whanzephruseke
N2
The fic must flow.
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The fic must flow.
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Post by whanzephruseke on Apr 13, 2017 4:34:42 GMT
First of all, it seems that the Nexus does have access to larger weapons than personal firearms - the colonies are protected by some larger guns. At the very least mount whatever you have available on the Nexus. After all, the Nexus requires protection much more than the colonies, as it contains the largest group.
Second, the Nexus has the manufacturing capabilities needed in order to stay self sufficient given enough recourses are available, they can produce habitats and the machinery required to survive in harsh conditions, they couldn't have brought everything from the MW because they didn't know the exact conditions they will face, and if they ran out of a certain part or machine without the ability to replace it, they are fucked.
And I do remember finding a large amount of mineral deposits all over the cluster. Hell, you have quite a few asteroid fields out there, that should provide more than adequate resources.
If I can manufacture in the Tempest an Isharay, essentially a miniature plasma cannon used for sniping, I'm sure all the scientists on the Nexus can figure something out in order to produce some larger weapons based on whatever type of tech they choose. After meeting the Kett, producing means of protection should have become part of the survival effort. You need food, air, water, but just as essentially - you also need weapons if you want to survive the Kett.
I'll mention again the idiocy of using something like a remnant drive core to power your colony toasters as opposed to using it for what it was intended - protecting a space ship.
These efforts should have started immediately after the magnitude of the Kett threat became apparent, meaning rather early on. The Nexus doesn't need to become a Death Star in two days, but the problem is that you don't see anyone doing ANYTHING to make it tougher and help it survive a likely attack by the Kett.
When Kesh tells Drack that if the Kett find them they will fight, she is speaking out of her ass. They don't have the means to fight in space. The Kett can just blow them up at their leisure if they encounter any resistance. The ability to wage guerilla warfare via the APEX teams only exists when the enemy is unable to find you and just wipe out your bases their with their space/air superiority.
There is a fine line between realism and game feature. The ability to craft a gun at your ship is a game feature. Extrapolating that to game realism should not be done. I'll use extreme examples: In game realismReal time travel time. Remember the ME1 elevator music? Weren't those fun? Therefore changing it to game feature introduces fast travel and loosely speaking, 2-minute travel time between clusters. Brings us back to the topic at hand, the probability of the Nexus having a factory/industrial/manufacturing section is highly unlikely. In game featureCrafting weapons and armor is a game feature. Question: Does a soldier go to war only with a pistol? He is then tasked to upgrade his pistol later on to pistol X. If he meets the quartermaster at the camp where he is deployed, he can buy rifle 1. If you find that humorous then why wouldn't you do the same for the crew of the Tempest? Why would anyone deploy them ill-equipped? Therefore this process of gearing up is an RPG game feature. The idea of bringing a 'factory' component itself is highly unlikely. I can think of two scenarios. A) Settlers. Lets say in todays context you wish to settle in a new continent. Do your settlers bring along assembly line stuff to setup buildings to produce war machines? You can bring some military crew to protect your settlers, that I agree is viable. Conquerors. Same scenario but you wish to take over a continent via military force. Do you again bring the same said assembly line setup? Highly unlikely. You bring military personnel & equipment, equipment that is built back 'home'. Therefore in conclusion I speculated that the Nexus' voyage is of the Settlers type but even if I was wrong, they would have hyperspaced in several dreadnaughts for protection's sake. Minifacturing capabilities using omni-tools are explained in-depth via codices, both in the original trilogy and in Andromeda; Ryder's ability to craft weapons and such using only a blueprint and the necessary raw materials is completely consistent with the lore (one of the few things that is, sadly).
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peabuddie
N2
You did good, kid.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
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You did good, kid.
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Post by peabuddie on Apr 13, 2017 4:49:35 GMT
They put "Krem" into DAI. That alone is enough to understand their purpose and reasoning for the stuff they do. Not only that, but there is no reason for "Hainly Abrams" in Prodromos to talk about being a man...being "Stephan" back in the Milky Way and then coming to Andromeda to be a female because its who He was on the inside. There is also the Angara message boards on Aya talking about the marriage of two Angaran males. There is also the Asari pronoun usage crap that didn't start until this game. If it weren't for this "lets represent the fringe elements" of society in the real world going on then this most likely would not have happened. You don't see this in the beginning golden era days of RPGs and video gaming. Its only become a prevalent issue in recent years. Yet, the hypocrisy of it all is that they don't represent the incestuous people out there. They exist. It is a fact. Yet, you don't see it. Why? Because society at large thinks its morally repugnant. Not so much homosexuality anymore. That shows a clear agenda. Its obvious to any objective analysis of the situation at hand. Seeing how Bioware/EA is a company who's goal is to sell games, i'd say they include these elements to attract and please their main demographic rather than some "agenda"... If they really wanted to push an agenda they'd make these elements a main part of the story rather than the optional side content they are, a lot of which is so minor most people won't even notice it's there, if anything it's pandering to people who think it's super important to include. Is culture reflected in art or does art define culture? Why yes, yes it does.
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whanzephruseke
N2
The fic must flow.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by whanzephruseke on Apr 13, 2017 4:52:58 GMT
Hi, actual linguist here, and the asari pronouns dialogue from the Nexus gave me a conniption fit. I think it's cool that certain asari might think of themselves as male or gender neutral because of contact with other species, but gendered pronouns don't/wouldn't exist in asari language, and it doesn't matter what pronoun an angara or a human or a turian or a reaper uses to refer to them, because they would all be translated as non-gendered. Of course the asari understand the concept of gender; it's just completely irrelevant re pronouns in their language, just as it is in many IRL human languages. The entire conversation isn't just anthro-centric, it's Anglo-centric. Why do you hurt me like this, BioWare? As for the angaran first contact scene, see my long rant here.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Apr 13, 2017 5:33:08 GMT
Hi, actual linguist here, and the asari pronouns dialogue from the Nexus gave me a conniption fit. I think it's cool that certain asari might think of themselves as male or gender neutral because of contact with other species, but gendered pronouns don't/wouldn't exist in asari language, and it doesn't matter what pronoun an angara or a human or a turian or a reaper uses to refer to them, because they would all be translated as non-gendered. Of course the asari understand the concept of gender; it's just completely irrelevant re pronouns in their language, just as it is in many IRL human languages. The entire conversation isn't just anthro-centric, it's Anglo-centric. Why do you hurt me like this, BioWare? As for the angaran first contact scene, see my long rant here. It's always confusing for me when people say that because Asari have no gender or are monogendered that there would be no Asari word for different genders. First of all, we don't know that all life on their planet is mono or a-gendered, so they could potentially have had names for those genders for tens of thousands of years or more. But the most damning thing is that we KNOW that they have had contact with species with multiple genders, and so it makes sense that they would come up with words for them in the Asari language. Just because they hadn't seen them before doesn't mean they wouldn't come up with a word. If a society evolved in a desert with no large bodies of water and then encountered, through migration or whatever, a lake or an ocean, it's not like they would say "Well damn. We have no words to explain what this is. Guess we'll forever be guessing if someone means a glass of water or a whole landscape of water."
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whanzephruseke
N2
The fic must flow.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by whanzephruseke on Apr 13, 2017 5:43:50 GMT
Hi, actual linguist here, and the asari pronouns dialogue from the Nexus gave me a conniption fit. I think it's cool that certain asari might think of themselves as male or gender neutral because of contact with other species, but gendered pronouns don't/wouldn't exist in asari language, and it doesn't matter what pronoun an angara or a human or a turian or a reaper uses to refer to them, because they would all be translated as non-gendered. Of course the asari understand the concept of gender; it's just completely irrelevant re pronouns in their language, just as it is in many IRL human languages. The entire conversation isn't just anthro-centric, it's Anglo-centric. Why do you hurt me like this, BioWare? As for the angaran first contact scene, see my long rant here. It's always confusing for me when people say that because Asari have no gender or are monogendered that there would be no Asari word for different genders. First of all, we don't know that all life on their planet is mono or a-gendered, so they could potentially have had names for those genders for tens of thousands of years or more. But the most damning thing is that we KNOW that they have had contact with species with multiple genders, and so it makes sense that they would come up with words for them in the Asari language. Just because they hadn't seen them before doesn't mean they wouldn't come up with a word. If a society evolved in a desert with no large bodies of water and then encountered, through migration or whatever, a lake or an ocean, it's not like they would say "Well damn. We have no words to explain what this is. Guess we'll forever be guessing if someone means a glass of water or a whole landscape of water." Of course they have words for different genders; they just don't have gendered pronouns. Even among IRL human languages, gendered pronouns are mostly just a quirk specific to Romance languages and a few others. Add to this that pronouns take many, many generations to change at all, and even then, the only change you really see is certain pronouns falling out of use and becoming archaic as the language naturally simplifies its pronouns. Pronouns are also (almost) never borrowed from other languages.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Apr 13, 2017 5:48:05 GMT
It's always confusing for me when people say that because Asari have no gender or are monogendered that there would be no Asari word for different genders. First of all, we don't know that all life on their planet is mono or a-gendered, so they could potentially have had names for those genders for tens of thousands of years or more. But the most damning thing is that we KNOW that they have had contact with species with multiple genders, and so it makes sense that they would come up with words for them in the Asari language. Just because they hadn't seen them before doesn't mean they wouldn't come up with a word. If a society evolved in a desert with no large bodies of water and then encountered, through migration or whatever, a lake or an ocean, it's not like they would say "Well damn. We have no words to explain what this is. Guess we'll forever be guessing if someone means a glass of water or a whole landscape of water." Of course they have words for different genders; they just don't have gendered pronouns. Even among IRL human languages, gendered pronouns are mostly just a quirk specific to Romance languages and a few others. Add to this that pronouns take many, many generations to change at all, and even then, the only change you really see is certain pronouns falling out of use and becoming archaic as the language naturally simplifies its pronouns. Pronouns are also (almost) never borrowed from other languages. Why wouldn't they have gendered pronouns? They wouldn't make some up for the gendered species they encountered? Heck, we've come up with new pronouns in just the last decade. HE/SHE HIM/HER HIS/HER zie zim zir sie sie hir ey em eir ve ver vis
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Archangel
N3
had to be me...someone else might have gotten it wrong.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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had to be me...someone else might have gotten it wrong.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Archangel on Apr 13, 2017 5:59:08 GMT
I'm just waiting till they give us an alien species with a culture that frowns on progessive ideals like homosexuality and interspecies relations. I mean even here on earth in some advanced societies they still see these things as "unnatural" or "unacceptable". It's being overly optimistic to think with all the different species in both galaxies they would all have ideals such as ours. Then again I mean I haven't seen anything about salarians or Krogan being so open but i honestly can't remember. Turians are logical considering the strong military and strong bonds between soldiers, Asari is irrelevant being monogendered, and of course us humans. If they have a race like that they will be portrayed as backwards and / or irredeemably evil and Ryder will have a quest to enlighten them with his progressive views...
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by whanzephruseke on Apr 13, 2017 6:15:57 GMT
Of course they have words for different genders; they just don't have gendered pronouns. Even among IRL human languages, gendered pronouns are mostly just a quirk specific to Romance languages and a few others. Add to this that pronouns take many, many generations to change at all, and even then, the only change you really see is certain pronouns falling out of use and becoming archaic as the language naturally simplifies its pronouns. Pronouns are also (almost) never borrowed from other languages. Why wouldn't they have gendered pronouns? They wouldn't make some up for the gendered species they encountered? Heck, we've come up with new pronouns in just the last decade. HE/SHE HIM/HER HIS/HER zie zim zir sie sie hir ey em eir ve ver vis 1) They don't stick: no one uses them because they feel unnatural, so they never make it into the lexicon. Just because I can decide that phones are now called "ditles" or something doesn't mean that other people will understand me when I say "Hold on, I think my ditle is ringing." (And even that would have a better chance of being accepted into the lexicon than a new pronoun would.) The language centers of our brain just cannot accept that there is a need for pronouns in addition to what it already has stored. When was the last time you used an archaic pronoun like "whom" in a situation that felt natural? 2) There is no need to make new pronouns because there is nothing wrong with using the non-gendered ones for bi-gendered species. It would not even occur to them to do so unless they were proficient in alien languages, but even then, would an English speaker's knowledge that Spanish assigns gendered endings to the words for inanimate objects, for example, compel them to incorporate that feature into their own language? Let's say the asari pronoun is "blah." When speaking about an asari: "I talked to Liara yesterday. Blah's so smart!" When speaking about a human male: "I talked to Joker yesterday. Blah's so funny!" No problem.
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Post by sauron001 on Apr 13, 2017 6:25:26 GMT
I'm just waiting till they give us an alien species with a culture that frowns on progessive ideals like homosexuality and interspecies relations. I mean even here on earth in some advanced societies they still see these things as "unnatural" or "unacceptable". It's being overly optimistic to think with all the different species in both galaxies they would all have ideals such as ours. Then again I mean I haven't seen anything about salarians or Krogan being so open but i honestly can't remember. Turians are logical considering the strong military and strong bonds between soldiers, Asari is irrelevant being monogendered, and of course us humans. If they have a race like that they will be portrayed as backwards and / or irredeemably evil and Ryder will have a quest to enlighten them with his progressive views...
Which is a shame really... It isn't realistic just like everyone being overtly nice in this game isn't realistic. Species and or races would always have issues with certain things and definitely disagree even when we find common ground. We would just avoid the topics or focus on the positive. Differing opinions isn't bad. Cultural norms are a thing and usually don't mesh when mixed with another. Like you said though, that would more than likely be the case if it happened or they push it so far to an extreme that we have no choice but to morally question it. Like the "indentured servants" quest on Thessia.
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Post by Ahriman on Apr 13, 2017 6:46:41 GMT
That's just part of another problem. All systems are already known, all planets (non-spoiler subforum) are already found, all aliens are already met. "Exploration". There's a difference between knowing a place exists and actually visiting it though. A lot of the planets and systems in the game are far different from the long-range telemetry gathered in the Milky Way indicated, either as a result of the Scourge, other unexplained stellar phenomena or the data being found to be inaccurate. Just because a map (or star chart) tells you something, doesn't mean it's true. Early Spanish explorers believed that California was an island not connected to the mainland of North America, leading it to being depicted that way on maps for centuries, despite how many people pointed out no-one had actually ever circumnavigated it. It was only in the late 18th century that the matter was finally settled, after an expedition traversed the region and finally disproved the theory beyond all doubt. That's why Ryder exploring and surveying Heleus is so important, regardless of whether someone else (native, Kett or exiles) actually got there first. Until Ryder showed up, the Initiative had barely explored two nearby star systems, with most of their knowledge of the Cluster being based on outdated information and telemetry collected from the Milky Way. Uhm, have you read their descriptions? They are all already visited by exiles/Nexus when we scan them. That's what I was talking about.
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Post by Elsariel on Apr 13, 2017 12:31:10 GMT
There's a difference between knowing a place exists and actually visiting it though. A lot of the planets and systems in the game are far different from the long-range telemetry gathered in the Milky Way indicated, either as a result of the Scourge, other unexplained stellar phenomena or the data being found to be inaccurate. Just because a map (or star chart) tells you something, doesn't mean it's true. Early Spanish explorers believed that California was an island not connected to the mainland of North America, leading it to being depicted that way on maps for centuries, despite how many people pointed out no-one had actually ever circumnavigated it. It was only in the late 18th century that the matter was finally settled, after an expedition traversed the region and finally disproved the theory beyond all doubt. That's why Ryder exploring and surveying Heleus is so important, regardless of whether someone else (native, Kett or exiles) actually got there first. Until Ryder showed up, the Initiative had barely explored two nearby star systems, with most of their knowledge of the Cluster being based on outdated information and telemetry collected from the Milky Way. Uhm, have you read their descriptions? They are all already visited by exiles/Nexus when we scan them. That's what I was talking about. I've read them all. Not all of them were actually visited. If I recall correctly, some of them had only been viewed by long range by either the Exiles or from the Milky Way. Especially the far out ones that you explore mid_end game.
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Post by Sifr on Apr 13, 2017 21:30:51 GMT
Uhm, have you read their descriptions? They are all already visited by exiles/Nexus when we scan them. That's what I was talking about. As Elsariel noted above, the Nexus' data was woefully out of date and based on long-range scans from the Milky Way. Following the Uprising and their initial colonies being attacked the Kett, the Nexus hadn't the power, resources or personnel to send more teams out to explore Heleus until the Hyperion showed up. Many systems were only briefly visited by Exiles hoping to exploit their natural resources, home to abandoned mining posts or stations left behind after the Kett drove their inhabitants out of the system or were worlds not travelled to or abandoned by the Angara centuries ago. Some of the worlds have so little information about them (and what's known is often woefully incorrect), they're still referred to solely by their catalogue numbers, because neither the Nexus, Exiles or even the Angara have visited those systems enough to give the planets actual names. It doesn't matter if someone else had already been there before Ryder, that doesn't detract from Ryder still exploring the cluster and doing important work by bothering to gather information. Their travels allowed the Nexus to get a better and up-to-date picture of the cluster, rather than relying on information that was more than a half-millennia old. Not to mention, the information gathered by Ryder's exploration and Angaran star charts was vitally important in working out the location of Merdian. The only way they were even able to figure out where it had ended up by comparing the Cluster in the present, with how the Cluster looked 600 years ago prior to the Scourge. If the Tempest hadn't bothered to take readings while travelling between systems, they'd never have been able to work that out.
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 13, 2017 21:43:47 GMT
Ok, this may actually not be an inconsistency because I think I might have missed something there twowards the end of the plot. So if someone knows how this is supposed to work, please let me know. Here is the issue (don't read unless yuo have finished the main plot): So the Nexus people are super worried in the beginning of the game (and also later, at least Drack is) that the Kett will find the Nexus. Because if they do, people say that they'll have no chance against the Kett's overwhelming numbers and the Nexus really has no defenses as such, yadda yadda. Thing is, through Ryder, the Archon does find the Nexus. He goes there to commandeer the Hyperion (which is docked at the Nexus) and kidnap the Ryder sibling. At this point, he also is still traveling with his entire armada apparently. So why is the Nexus still around and basically in the same condition as before the ending, after you do the Meridian mission? I mean, the Archon had to board the station to get to the Hyperion anyway, I assume. Why wouldn't he conquer it or take it out? Was he in such a hurry? If so, why? Didn't he still assume that Protagonist Ryder is dead at this point? I don't get it but as I said, it's very possible I missed something. Thoughts are welcome.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Apr 13, 2017 23:45:04 GMT
^ Ditto. I thought I missed something too and then I just didn't bother to go figure it out after the whole bang up job ended because I figured I wouldn't find any answers. The devs put in potatoes when you expect tomatoes. Fine, I'll take your potatoes and lobed them out the window.
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