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Post by colfoley on May 1, 2017 23:04:56 GMT
It doesen't make any sense for the Benefactor to be TIM. It does not match the profile at all. TIM was an ultra human nationalist who was indoctrinated into believing he could stop the Reapers and he devoted his entire resource base into defeating the Reapers, rather then cutting ties and running away like the AI and even the Benefactor wanted to do.
HOWEVER, I think they ARE related somehow. Either a lover or even a wife that was never revealed in the canon. Someone who generally shared TIMs ideology of pro human supremacy but didn't feel that one could stop the Reapers so they picked up sticks and got the hell out of dodge. And I am half convinced that this will end up being Cora's mother. It would be a great way to get Cerberus into the Andromeda Galaxy without getting Cerberus into the Andromeda Galaxy. An interesting twist on the ideology and the ethic, but with a new face and admittedly new objectives. But the only way that Jien Garson's murder makes any sense is if the Benefactor followed them to Andromeda. Which rules out Anderson, Udina, TIM, or anyone else.
Oh and something else occured to me which seems to fit. All this stuff about the people of the AI being different in Cryo Sleep. I don't know about you but that seems like intentional tampering by a Vault Tech/ Cerberus type rather then a flaw in the process. Something to cause chaos while they swooped in and took over in the background.
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Post by williefisterbut on May 2, 2017 7:18:17 GMT
The first part is off just because the timelines don't agree. TIM wasn't indoctrinated until Mass Effect 3. The Andromeda Initiative took place during Mass Effect 1 and partially during Mass Effect 2. So, he wasn't indoctrinated while making any choices about the Andromeda Initiative. Also, he might have been ultra human, but Mass Effect 2 proved he was willing to use aliens and even artificial intelligence if he deemed it necessary... like it definitely was to get the InitiativeI off the ground. So, none of those points you made rule TIM out of the picture at all.
Having said that, it was obvious that he didn't jump on the arc his self, but he definitely could have planted operatives, such as his daughter Cora Harper who was suddenly and for no reason dropped from the Asari commandos and deliberately pointed to the Andromeda Initiative. What she knows and how she could come into play is obviously still up in the air, but I think her ties will definitely come into play. The new face and new objectives you're mentioning could definitely come from his daughter.
You'll have to elaborate on the third paragraph, because I'm not sure what you're talking about.
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Post by colfoley on May 2, 2017 18:53:04 GMT
The first part is off just because the timelines don't agree. TIM wasn't indoctrinated until Mass Effect 3. The Andromeda Initiative took place during Mass Effect 1 and partially during Mass Effect 2. So, he wasn't indoctrinated while making any choices about the Andromeda Initiative. Also, he might have been ultra human, but Mass Effect 2 proved he was willing to use aliens and even artificial intelligence if he deemed it necessary... like it definitely was to get the InitiativeI off the ground. So, none of those points you made rule TIM out of the picture at all. Having said that, it was obvious that he didn't jump on the arc his self, but he definitely could have planted operatives, such as his daughter Cora Harper who was suddenly and for no reason dropped from the Asari commandos and deliberately pointed to the Andromeda Initiative. What she knows and how she could come into play is obviously still up in the air, but I think her ties will definitely come into play. The new face and new objectives you're mentioning could definitely come from his daughter. You'll have to elaborate on the third paragraph, because I'm not sure what you're talking about. the meddling in the AI and murder of Jien Garson only makes sense if the benefactor came to Andromeda. I mean i wouldn't put it past Tim to clone himself....but that'd be cheap. There is a quest where you find out that the cryo sleep caused a chemical imbalance. Making people muhaha. And Peebee makes reference to Kalinda also waking up a different person. I believe that meddling was deliberate.
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Post by dazk on May 3, 2017 2:42:18 GMT
Just doing another play through and someone mentioned Calix Corvannis as the instigator of the Revolt on the Nexus and that Sloane changed sides and took up the figure head role. Why do we never here anything else about Calix Corvannis or have I just missed other references?
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Post by formerfiend on May 3, 2017 4:30:27 GMT
The first part is off just because the timelines don't agree. TIM wasn't indoctrinated until Mass Effect 3. The Andromeda Initiative took place during Mass Effect 1 and partially during Mass Effect 2. So, he wasn't indoctrinated while making any choices about the Andromeda Initiative. Also, he might have been ultra human, but Mass Effect 2 proved he was willing to use aliens and even artificial intelligence if he deemed it necessary... like it definitely was to get the InitiativeI off the ground. So, none of those points you made rule TIM out of the picture at all. Having said that, it was obvious that he didn't jump on the arc his self, but he definitely could have planted operatives, such as his daughter Cora Harper who was suddenly and for no reason dropped from the Asari commandos and deliberately pointed to the Andromeda Initiative. What she knows and how she could come into play is obviously still up in the air, but I think her ties will definitely come into play. The new face and new objectives you're mentioning could definitely come from his daughter. You'll have to elaborate on the third paragraph, because I'm not sure what you're talking about. Don't the comics & novels imply if not outright state that TIM had been indoctrinated for something going on 20 years? And for the record I do not for one moment believe that Cora is in any way related to TIM. There's nothing in the game to suggest that's the case and plenty of other reason for her being kicked out of the commandos and scouted for the initiative. I'm pretty sure there's just someone in Bioware who's bound and determined to show that fictional characters in the same setting can have the same last name without being related to one another(see James Vega, originally James Sanders, no relation to Kahlee Sanders).
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Post by dmc1001 on May 3, 2017 23:06:21 GMT
Just doing another play through and someone mentioned Calix Corvannis as the instigator of the Revolt on the Nexus and that Sloane changed sides and took up the figure head role. Why do we never here anything else about Calix Corvannis or have I just missed other references? He died in the revolt. Sloane didn't necessarily join the exiles because she wanted to. She just made a bunch of dumb decisions. At times when she should have been advising Tann she was off doing whatever she wanted and was unreachable, either by choice or accident. That left Tann, an accountant, to make decisions without her advice. And even when she was present she was, at best, antagonistic toward the other Nexus leaders. Going to Corvannis to try to talk him down (it's what she was doing) would have worked out fine if she had just thought for one second to let ANYONE know her plan, be it Tann and Addison or any of her security staff. Hell, even an email would have worked! So when security and the krogan were sent against those who revolted, they found Sloane with them. She didn't even try to let them know what was going on. To her credit, Sloane was trying to prevent a total bloodbath, so siding with them more or less saved them and allowed for exile (or return to cryo, but they rejected that). Basically, no one understood that probably no leader could have made things good. The Nexus was damaged, the seeds for food were mostly irradiated and unuseable, they had very little power on the Nexus and all of the golden worlds were unlivable. It was a clusterfuck but because of the Scourge. The problem with the leadership is that they weren't equipped to handle an emergency - that is, in the sense that they didn't have the charisma necessary to soothe people.
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Post by dazk on May 3, 2017 23:38:34 GMT
Thanks for the explanation dmc1001. Was that in the novel? May have to buy it.
I just think the MB is probably right in front of us but using a different name and thought that maybe Corvannis may have been that person but if he's dead well that rules that out!!!!
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Post by dmc1001 on May 3, 2017 23:42:29 GMT
Thanks for the explanation dmc1001. Was that in the novel? May have to buy it. I just think the MB is probably right in front of us but using a different name and thought that maybe Corvannis may have been that person but if he's dead well that rules that out!!!! Yes, it's from the novel. Not sure the book gives any more information on the MB. I could lead you to think Spender killed Jien Garson but if that was done by the MB then Spender was obviously expendable.
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Post by obatalaryder on May 24, 2017 18:54:26 GMT
Cerberus/T.I.M. is again another red herring (or appears to be).
In the novel Nexus Uprising, after waking up from the Scourge, Sloan Kelly runs down a list of groups/peoples that could have potentially attacked the Nexus ( afer presuming it could be an attack). One of the groups that run through her mind is Cerberus.
"Had Cerberus attacked them? Pirates?"
A very, very specific group that she names, out of all the other factions she could have also named (Blue Suns, Eclipse, other mercs and criminals, etc).
It's actually the only specific name.
So from this small portion, Sloane Kelly believes that the Andromeda Initiaive could potentially be a target of Cerberus, meaning Cerberus were not (atleast in a public manner) one of the organizations that assisted the AI in their mission, and that they were maybe even actively antagonistic to their goal. Or it implies that Cerberus are just notorious for attacking stationary space stations.
Nonetheless, Cerberus as a whole have nothing to do with the Andromeda Initiative. Given their infamy, Jien/Alec would have already mentioned them in the secret logs.
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Post by dmc1001 on May 25, 2017 3:59:33 GMT
I don't know that Sloan's thinking has anything to do with who the MB is. Remember, no one knows the identity of the MB, whether it's one person or many. Also, Cerberus was funded by a great many people, including high ranking Alliance members. They're Cerberus, even if not on the public record as being members. I also doubt Sloane Kelly knows the fully extent of what Cerberus might or might not do. I suspect she'd be surprised to learn that a Cerberus ship had the following as crew/squad: a salarian, a krogan, a drell, a quarian and a turian. Like most, she probably believes they'd never work with aliens, thus thinking they could target the AI.
Now, all that said, I don't think Cerberus is behind anything here. At least, I hope not. It would kind of ruin things. Of all the things that needed to be left behind and destroyed at the end of ME3, Cerberus is right there behind the Reapers.
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Post by djbare on May 25, 2017 8:21:47 GMT
I think it's Lexi, now you'll never look at the doc in the same way again.
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Post by djbare on May 25, 2017 12:50:43 GMT
Btw, TIM was certainly indoctrinated in Mass Effect 2, there's video console in Mass Effect 3 that shows he had reaper tech implanted.
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Post by flyingsquirrel on May 31, 2017 14:23:42 GMT
Btw, TIM was certainly indoctrinated in Mass Effect 2, there's video console in Mass Effect 3 that shows he had reaper tech implanted. I don't think it was clear that was happening during ME2. I'd tend to think it didn't, actually - his face has a few marks on it throughout most of ME3 that I don't remember seeing in ME2, before the final confrontation where he clearly has had a lot of cybernetics implanted. So I suspect he started having the implants done between ME2 and ME3. Though he could have still been indoctrinated before that (I don't think you have to have implants to be indoctrinated - Dr. Kenson in Arrival doesn't). All that said, I'd prefer to the MB to be somebody other than Cerberus. We saw enough of them in the trilogy, and the political issues surrounding them could be explored through new factions developing within the AI if the writers really want to go down that route again.
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Post by MzAdventure on Jun 5, 2017 16:30:18 GMT
I'm late to the party here having only recently been able to complete the game, but it doesn't make sense to me for it to be Cerberus if only because of the inclusion of all the other races. I like the idea of it being an AI like EDI or even the geth behind it, perhaps?
I honestly wish the murder plotline wasn't included, especially as it was left unresolved. It was kinda dumb, and I'd have liked to see Jien Garson in the game.
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Post by Beerfish on Jun 6, 2017 14:12:56 GMT
Lots of interesting possibilities here. I will say I really did nto like the way the whole Jien Garson thing was carried out. It seemed like a pretty major quest for me and it just sort of ended with no resolution.
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Post by Sairys on Jun 8, 2017 3:08:08 GMT
The Shadow Broker. Not the Yagh we killed in ME2. But the Shadow Broker that captured the Yagh as a pet, and then covered his tracks when he left by making it seeem like the Yagh had killed him and taken over the show. Why fund the Iniatitve? Because he was running scared of the Reapers, and he came with the Nexus to Andromeda. Upon arrival he wanted to seize power, and had a thug of his kill Garson. What happenend after that is difficult to know, but he might have had his or her plans interrupted by the Scourge, or he might have tried using the uprising as an attempt to take over (and failed). We'll see in a DLC most likely. The Illusive Man does not have a motive, the funds or means to actually be the Benefactor at the time of ME2s end. Lazarus had drained Cerberus too much, and he would never condone alien arks. I'm seeing something similar. The original Shadow Broker setting this up, funding it, having it set up so Reyes could take out Jien after landing, and setting up bumbling Credits-Jugglar as his/her face running the show. Even in the book it was a huge surprise to everyone that they put the accountant the succession of who would be in charge in case of catastrophe ahead of Addison and Sloane. Something got switched there behind the scenes and if Jien had caught it, well there's that reason to take her out. Shadow Broker wanted his/her own person as a figure head, not someone that would give him trouble.
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Post by kalasaurus on Jun 8, 2017 10:33:06 GMT
Lots of interesting possibilities here. I will say I really did nto like the way the whole Jien Garson thing was carried out. It seemed like a pretty major quest for me and it just sort of ended with no resolution. Same. The plot was completely dropped, and Ryder never told anyone.
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Post by tjmitchem on Jun 8, 2017 12:40:38 GMT
Lots of interesting possibilities here. I will say I really did nto like the way the whole Jien Garson thing was carried out. It seemed like a pretty major quest for me and it just sort of ended with no resolution. Same. The plot was completely dropped, and Ryder never told anyone. I'm not sure who Ryder could tell. Anyone awake at the time of the murder is a potential suspect. SAM says the murderer is probably long gone, but there's no proof of that.
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Post by kalasaurus on Jun 8, 2017 12:54:30 GMT
Same. The plot was completely dropped, and Ryder never told anyone. I'm not sure who Ryder could tell. Anyone awake at the time of the murder is a potential suspect. SAM says the murderer is probably long gone, but there's no proof of that. I was thinking more along the lines of Kandros. To at least begin an investigation. edit: Was he awake at the time? I know he says he was around during the rebellion, but he wasn't actually on the Nexus for much of it. I don't think Kandros is a suspect, tbh, but I guess it's possible
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Post by xassantex on Jun 8, 2017 15:11:48 GMT
the benefactor is Miranda's dad. And he got TIM to pitch in. He was probably planning on Miranda to join but she was stuck on some zombie project which took two years. She missed her flight to Andromeda.
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Post by obatalaryder on Jun 8, 2017 22:54:53 GMT
I'm not sure who Ryder could tell. Anyone awake at the time of the murder is a potential suspect. SAM says the murderer is probably long gone, but there's no proof of that. I was thinking more along the lines of Kandros. To at least begin an investigation. edit: Was he awake at the time? I know he says he was around during the rebellion, but he wasn't actually on the Nexus for much of it. I don't think Kandros is a suspect, tbh, but I guess it's possible Kandros was awoken and assisted out of stasis by Sloane. So he's asleep during the time of Jien's murder. So unless Kandros was able to wake up, kill Jien, and then shove himself back into a stasis pod... I also suspected Kandros -- given he was sent to inflitrate the Intitiative -- but I think it's made pretty clear he's not involved.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jun 9, 2017 11:39:32 GMT
I was thinking more along the lines of Kandros. To at least begin an investigation. edit: Was he awake at the time? I know he says he was around during the rebellion, but he wasn't actually on the Nexus for much of it. I don't think Kandros is a suspect, tbh, but I guess it's possible Kandros was awoken and assisted out of stasis by Sloane. So he's asleep during the time of Jien's murder. So unless Kandros was able to wake up, kill Jien, and then shove himself back into a stasis pod... I also suspected Kandros -- given he was sent to inflitrate the Intitiative -- but I think it's made pretty clear he's not involved. Well, it's apparently "easy" to break out of your own stasis pod, because Avitus Rix managed to do so with his pod. Yea, Kandros doesn't sound like a guy that could commit murder/conspiracy.
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Post by Ahriman on Jun 9, 2017 12:51:05 GMT
I also suspected Kandros -- given he was sent to inflitrate the Intitiative -- but I think it's made pretty clear he's not involved. The task was given by Hierarchy, which in turn was very suspicious about this Initiative thing. So he's even more clear than the rest of the cast.
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Post by pipip on Jun 14, 2017 15:39:49 GMT
Reyes Vidal. He's already shown himself to be a lying, manipulative murderer, with access to lots of resources. We know very little about his background. We do know that he was on the Nexus when Garson was murdered. We've also seen that he likes to remain in the shadows and let others be his public figureheads. Plus the writers go out of their way to make sure he survives this game. Even if you try to shoot him, he gets away.
They already revealed him to be The Charlatan. No one would suspect a second reveal of him also being The Benefactor.
There have been some good theories in this thread that actually I agree with. I'm just throwing this one out there as another possibility.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jun 21, 2017 20:47:34 GMT
Reyes Vidal. He's already shown himself to be a lying, manipulative murderer, with access to lots of resources. We know very little about his background. We do know that he was on the Nexus when Garson was murdered. We've also seen that he likes to remain in the shadows and let others be his public figureheads. Plus the writers go out of their way to make sure he survives this game. Even if you try to shoot him, he gets away. They already revealed him to be The Charlatan. No one would suspect a second reveal of him also being The Benefactor. There have been some good theories in this thread that actually I agree with. I'm just throwing this one out there as another possibility. I've been wondering how much do you think Alec knew of the benefactor's thugs? Before leaving for Habitat 7, he mentions to his kids (via his logs) that if something were to happen to him there are "things you are going to find out, I hope you understand." I doubt Alec is referring to his death on 7 (could b precautionary thing if anything did happen on 7, but still doubt he was referring to 7) and considering Garson's datapad saying: "No word from Hyperion. Did they get to Alec to?" I hope its actually its a new figure, regarding Reyes, why then would they make him a potential love interest? Granted it could be Solas 2.0, bait and switch kinda thing, but still. If I had to choose between Quarian Ark dlc or Benefactor dlc (I don't see why though we won't get two dlc's to be honest), I would rather get a Benefactor dlc, it's a hell of a lot more interesting to me then the Quarian Ark.
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