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Post by asherax on Mar 31, 2017 13:42:58 GMT
@ OP, the ME3 MP has changed over time as well. i played ME3MP from the beginning and it started out similar. the main difference between ME3 and ME:A is that staying in one position/"camping" is more challenging and that you have to level your characters with cards AND each character instead of the class. at the release of ME3, the multiplayer was quite similar, they had the exact same missions (the others came with the dlcs), they had probably 5-6 different characters per class and the weapons didnt deal any damage until you leveld them. its basically the same now, until you level your stuff you wont be as effective. More or less my sentiment as well. ME3 MP had a couple of balance patches as well, and it only started to get "easy" once people got a few rare weapons to rank VII or up. And every time people got to that milestone, they'd release a new weaponpack with slightly harder maps and slightly better weaponry as well, to start collecting again  And no, you simply can't get the balance "right" on the first attempt, playtesters tend to play for an entire day, or even several weeks, and become more proficient at the game as a whole. And playtesters are a different breed from regular gamers like us. So all they can do during development, is to get it "as right as possible", and after release go though the telemetry of the actual players to see what needs fixing. And quite some fixes might not be as straightforward as you might hope. It's very possible, that instead of increasing the damage on, say, an Avenger, they instead reduce its base recoil while slightly nerfing the recoil reduction on its mods. Doesn't make the Avenger with a recoil mod any worse, but it does improve all Avengers with other mods. Was the same in ME3 MP as well. Weapons turning out not ideal, both weapons and mods receiving minor tweaks, and the flavor-of-the-month weapons and mods changing all the time. Save |
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Post by Coda on Mar 31, 2017 13:43:42 GMT
So do I, but is was just as unbalanced and buggy as MEAMP is. I already posted the answer to this btw  But muh Carnifex  Muh Falcon. And muh Firebase White desk |
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Post by penguinfetish on Mar 31, 2017 13:45:12 GMT
memory leaks on console was a thing as i recall. [X] Console peasants PC was doing just fine at the time But today, even on PC it's not going well. I wouldn't say that 9GB of ram usage is a memory leak, but the game still performs like crap. And you don't really notice it until you want to start sniping. That i can agree with. Between hitboxes and this weird input lag when im off host, sniping is a task sometimes, particularly with the harder hitting snipers that arent so forgiving. |
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Post by asherax on Mar 31, 2017 13:49:46 GMT
I get the comparison the ME3 launch, but this is 2017, 5 years later. Should we not be starting at the point we left off? You nailed it m8 No, since we have new weapons, powers and mechanics. If this game started with the exact same weapons, powers and mechanics we had at the end of ME3MP, and nothing else, then yes, they could've made an exact copy. But, they can't, because some stuff was added, other stuff got deleted, and as a result, everything needed a re-balance. Save |
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Post by turianrebel212 on Mar 31, 2017 13:57:20 GMT
Just tried my Sniper Black Widow Infiltrator on silver not being host..... First off,the hit Reg is so off, but then I remember it's a Frostbite game and act accordingly. When you're not the host and you try and snipe in this game things get... Interesting. Wow.
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Post by leafspring on Mar 31, 2017 14:00:30 GMT
But it's not an unfair standard because it's still the same game series made by the same company, so there's absolutely no excuse for it to be worse than me3mp. Disagree. That's like knocking every Tarantino flick besides Pulp Fiction, or every Pink Floyd album besides Dark Side of the Moon, because they're not as good as the very best (and utterly awesome) thing that artist ever made. You're comparing a subjective creative process with objective improvements achieved by insights in how a game mode like this should work and what it needs. Creating visceral feedback, a good user experience and having proper weapon/power/etc. balancing is not a creative process, it's something you learn how to achieve. To stick with your metaphor - it's like learning to play guitar and writing song. You might not always write exceptional songs but once you learned how to play guitar properly, you can be expected to remain at that level of ability. And anything less does warrant criticism, especially when people pay a lot of money to listen to your playing. |
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Post by Beerfish on Mar 31, 2017 14:16:26 GMT
Without reading this whole thread, MEa was going to be a step down from ME3 no matter what, that for me was a given the moment we knew there was going to be mea, not because Bioware went out of their way to make it worse but because they by good design or fluke they hit the ball out of the park at their 1st at bat.
As I fully expected there are things in mea that I like a lot and of course things I do not like. The fate long term of mea will be reliability and increased stability.
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Post by CHRrOME on Mar 31, 2017 14:20:44 GMT
Just tried my Sniper Black Widow Infiltrator on silver not being host..... First off,the hit Reg is so off, but then I remember it's a Frostbite game and act accordingly. When you're not the host and you try and snipe in this game things get... Interesting. Wow. I doubt the engine itself has anything to do. Is their network coding that sucks. And I agree, sniping off host is so weird. Hitboxes are a joke and it seems like half your shots don't even register, and the typical "in one second I'm at full health the next I'm dead" BS happens too. This is way I'm so against P2P for this game, because they can't make this system work. |
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Post by gethadept on Mar 31, 2017 14:52:55 GMT
It`s not perfect, and I do agree that it`s quite underwhelming compared to final version of ME3 MP.
However, compare to initial version of ME3 MP, MEA MP is way better.
I can tell that they learned a lot of things from ME3 MP and implemented many changes to MEA MP.
Current MEA MP feels repetitive and underwhelming, but I think we still have chance for a greater experience and let dev have some time while we enjoy the game.
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Post by hieroglyph on Mar 31, 2017 14:55:23 GMT
So let's take a basic example of how far back MEAMP has taken us. ME3MP introduced hazard maps and it was so influential that even the SP portion of Andromeda uses this idea. Yet for the MP there isn't a hazardous map anywhere to be seen. Keep in mind that MEAMP has one less map at launch than ME3MP as well. So MEAMP doesn't even match ME3MP at launch, let alone capitalize on one of its more entertaining ideas that even the SP uses.
Also, there is no exp bonus for selecting a random map or enemy faction. I mean this is about as basic as you can get in terms of features here.
Sure, the balance will hopefully come in future patches, but please do not pretend that MEAMP outpaces ME3MP at launch in any way except RNG bloat.
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Post by hieroglyph on Mar 31, 2017 15:32:19 GMT
No, since we have new weapons, powers and mechanics. If this game started with the exact same weapons, powers and mechanics we had at the end of ME3MP, and nothing else, then yes, they could've made an exact copy. But, they can't, because some stuff was added, other stuff got deleted, and as a result, everything needed a re-balance. SaveThis would be fine if they didn't purposely bloat the weapon counts at release. So instead of needing to rebalance 25-30 weapons, they need to rebalance 47. And let's be honest, only 4-5 are truly viable on Gold so this is a daunting task all because they wanted to sell loot boxes. I have no pity for stupidity and BioWare deserves all the criticism they get for this. |
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Post by neocodex and 23 others on Mar 31, 2017 16:50:12 GMT
No, since we have new weapons, powers and mechanics. If this game started with the exact same weapons, powers and mechanics we had at the end of ME3MP, and nothing else, then yes, they could've made an exact copy. But, they can't, because some stuff was added, other stuff got deleted, and as a result, everything needed a re-balance. SaveThis would be fine if they didn't purposely bloat the weapon counts at release. So instead of needing to rebalance 25-30 weapons, they need to rebalance 47. And let's be honest, only 4-5 are truly viable on Gold so this is a daunting task all because they wanted to sell loot boxes. I have no pity for stupidity and BioWare deserves all the criticism they get for this. And it's not a fucking miracle to balance the weapons. It's so goddamn easy. Simple logic. They do deserve all the critisim for this. The current balance state is disgusting considering how little effort it would take to fix it. And by that I mean a complete overhaul, which can be done in 1 day of work or less, by 1 person. |
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Post by reyzaburrel on Mar 31, 2017 23:10:00 GMT
Were not living in 2012. There is no excuse for this. It's clear that they didn't care. Not excusing it, I'm saying that OP is probably looking at ME3MP through rose-tinted glasses, because that game's launch was a mess too. And what does the year have to do with how much devs should care about a product? MEAMP launched with far more content, so what exactly shows that they don't 'care'? 1. I am the OP and from what you're stated, you're basically saying, "well since ME3 MP launch was bad, this is acceptable."No sir, it's not acceptable. |
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Post by hobocommand3r on Mar 31, 2017 23:54:24 GMT
People saying you can't compare mea to me3 after dlc are missing the point. This game currently feels like a step back even compared to me3 at launch in many ways. In more ways than it feels like they made improvements anyway. Disagreed. Everything does feel very low powered, but I think it's a matter of time for weapons to get buffed, and the powers do become significantly better as you level up, otherwise, what's the point of leveling up. Everything else I like better, less waves, no pizza, character aesthetics, freedom of movement. One thing that I do not see yet, and hope it's coming, is more character diversity, as of now there is simply zero alien characters I like, and in ME3MP the moment I started there were tons of character cards I really wanted and kept wanting. I happen to not be a fan of Krogans and Asari, and Angara just does not feel as tempting as Batarians and Drells were, and as hilarious as Volus and Vorcha. Definately agree with this. I'm liking the angarans but I'm not a big fan of krogans either, I only use the merc cause flamethrower. I haven't touched a single turian because I have no interest in turbocharge. I miss drell in particular but also geth and vorcha, the batarian soldier was great as well. Maybe geth wouldn't fit in lore wise and maybe not vorcha either but would it really be more lore breaking than stuff like asari adepts outmeleeing krogan berserkers on gold? And would anyone care if the classes were fun to play? This game is missing a lot of diversity at the moment and feels a bit empty. not enough maps (why don't they add the apex map to normal mp allready), not enough unique powers, not enough useable guns, not many races and since combos are shit atm that pretty much makes 50% of the classes not viable at the moment unless you enjoy gimping yourself. |
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Post by Coda on Apr 1, 2017 0:20:12 GMT
Not excusing it, I'm saying that OP is probably looking at ME3MP through rose-tinted glasses, because that game's launch was a mess too. And what does the year have to do with how much devs should care about a product? MEAMP launched with far more content, so what exactly shows that they don't 'care'? 1. I am the OP and from what you're stated, you're basically saying, "well since ME3 MP launch was bad, this is acceptable."No sir, it's not acceptable. What's unacceptable about it? We got more of everything at launch than we did in ME3MP. More kits, weapons, maps, mods, and gear on top of new mechanics on a new engine (i.e. they couldn't carry code over). It suffers from very similar problems as ME3MP's launch did (balance, mostly), and as far as I'm concerned, has the same level of potential for growth as I saw in ME3MP. The game also came out 10 days ago, so any possible fix that may or may not be on the way couldn't have possibly been finished/tested/certified. So if Me3MP launched in a similar state, you can't really say that its a step down. And since I was fine with ME3MP at launch, I'm fine with this, provided the post-launch support is roughly the same quality. |
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Post by Darks1te on Apr 1, 2017 0:33:11 GMT
Just tried my Sniper Black Widow Infiltrator on silver not being host..... First off,the hit Reg is so off, but then I remember it's a Frostbite game and act accordingly. When you're not the host and you try and snipe in this game things get... Interesting. Wow. Thats why i'm just shooting 360 no scope with my raptor X. |
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Post by hieroglyph on Apr 1, 2017 1:06:04 GMT
1. I am the OP and from what you're stated, you're basically saying, "well since ME3 MP launch was bad, this is acceptable."No sir, it's not acceptable. What's unacceptable about it? We got more of everything at launch than we did in ME3MP. More kits, weapons, maps, mods, and gear on top of new mechanics on a new engine (i.e. they couldn't carry code over). It suffers from very similar problems as ME3MP's launch did (balance, mostly), and as far as I'm concerned, has the same level of potential for growth as I saw in ME3MP. The game also came out 10 days ago, so any possible fix that may or may not be on the way couldn't have possibly been finished/tested/certified. So if Me3MP launched in a similar state, you can't really say that its a step down. And since I was fine with ME3MP at launch, I'm fine with this, provided the post-launch support is roughly the same quality. The problem is that repeating the same mistakes is rarely beneficial. Also, as I noted previously, having more of those things makes balancing the game that much more difficult. The fact that there was no MP beta for Andromeda does not bode well for future support either. The lack of community events is problematic as well. These are all things that were hugely successful with ME3MP, so not having them at launch points towards mismanagement at best, a money grab at worst. |
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Post by triggerlips on Apr 1, 2017 1:08:41 GMT
After going back to ME3 Multiplayer tonight I realised everything in it is better, even the graphics which says something when it is Five years older.
Those biotic booms etc 100 times better than anything in Andromeda.
Am giving up on Andromeda for a while, have tried hard to love it, maybe too hard, and I suspect many others are the same. Will look back in a few weeks see if anything has changed
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Post by turianrebel212 on Apr 1, 2017 1:15:35 GMT
After going back to ME3 Multiplayer tonight I realised everything in it is better, even the graphics which says something when it is Five years older. Those biotic booms etc 100 times better than anything in Andromeda. Am giving up on Andromeda for a while, have tried hard to love it, maybe too hard, and I suspect many others are the same. Will look back in a few weeks see if anything has changed ME3 is better that's for sure. Graphically I think Andromeda is better. But it's not huge. ME3 still looks good and plays excellent. |
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Post by cato on Apr 1, 2017 1:48:15 GMT
1. I am the OP and from what you're stated, you're basically saying, "well since ME3 MP launch was bad, this is acceptable."No sir, it's not acceptable. What's unacceptable about it? We got more of everything at launch than we did in ME3MP. More kits, weapons, maps, mods, and gear on top of new mechanics on a new engine (i.e. they couldn't carry code over). It suffers from very similar problems as ME3MP's launch did (balance, mostly), and as far as I'm concerned, has the same level of potential for growth as I saw in ME3MP. The game also came out 10 days ago, so any possible fix that may or may not be on the way couldn't have possibly been finished/tested/certified. So if Me3MP launched in a similar state, you can't really say that its a step down. And since I was fine with ME3MP at launch, I'm fine with this, provided the post-launch support is roughly the same quality. No we didn't. I understand that you're relatively unconcerned with the state of Andromeda compared to ME3 at launch but we absolutely don't have more of everything. We got the same number of difficulties; fewer playable species; same number of enemy factions; fewer maps; same number of enemy unit types; fewer powers; and on a more subjective level - less balance. What we've got more of in Andromeda are guns, mods, characters and consumables/ equipment. Notice how all that extra stuff can only be accessed through the store. |
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Post by joren123 on Apr 1, 2017 2:29:06 GMT
While I felt ME:A wasn't quite as bad as people make it out to be, I also felt I wasn't simply having as much fun as I was during ME3. It wasn't up until a few days ago that I figured out why. The fact of the matter is, I hate sniping. Yet at the same time, if I want to have any sort of progression, that is the only viable form of damage. Yes, some of the snipers are OP, but the vast majority of the guns AND powers are lackluster, deal no real damage or have no real viability.
Things like backlash. I like the idea of it. Remember the N7 paladin? Is this not technically what we asked for? To be able to move with his shield. Now we can, except now its the shield itself that breaks when it gets sneezed on. With final evolutions omnishield could take about 8000 damage? Backlash can only absorb like...600?
Now on this part I could be wrong, but what made biotics so strong in ME3 was that the explosions did %age damage. So the higher the difficulty or hp pool, the better damage it would do. Here in ME:A that isn't the case, so all the combos give the feeling of tickling damage. This all lends to the idea of there not being any viable alternatives to sniping.
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Post by Spectr61 on Apr 1, 2017 4:17:54 GMT
Without reading this whole thread, MEa was going to be a step down from ME3 no matter what, that for me was a given the moment we knew there was going to be mea, not because Bioware went out of their way to make it worse but because they by good design or fluke they hit the ball out of the park at their 1st at bat. As I fully expected there are things in mea that I like a lot and of course things I do not like. The fate long term of mea will be reliability and increased stability. This. They definitely caught lightning in a bottle with ME3MP. It's still very viable even today. Let's hope they patch the hell out of MEAMP, starting with the a aforementioned reliability and stability. I fear these may be a bridge too far though. Plus, the MEAMP Krogan headbutt is good and all, but I really miss the ME3 elbow of doom. And the sounds. |
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Post by mindfane on Apr 2, 2017 3:41:08 GMT
Sound direction is also pretty bad. Most of the time, I couldn't identify where a certain sound is coming from. Even though ME3 mp used a very old engine, directional sound was petty good. I don't think its an issue with an engine, because other frostbite powered games (Battlefield) are usually pretty good in this area.
Perhaps it is related to the bad net code. Frostbite is very good with a dedicated server, but when it comes to P2P, it is not as good as Unreal Engine.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Apr 2, 2017 3:46:58 GMT
This is actually much better, ME3's MP tried to rip-off Gears' horde mode and turned out very generic, barely any twist to it. It was pretty mediocre, but MEA's? I find myself playing it much more. It's not really a huge improvement, it's not special, but the jump-jets add an unique flavour to the experience, and makes the mode have some identity, has me hooked, surprisingly. Still barely original regardless.
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Post by hobocommand3r on Apr 2, 2017 4:04:01 GMT
The biggest problem in this game for me at the moment is a lack of variety. For example, variety between the characters within a certain class.
The soldiers in me3 actually had a lot of variety. Batarian, turian, krogan and Human all had very different kits. Meanwhile in this every soldier basically has turbocharge and frags or flak cannon. So creative. That's a big issue I have with the game right now. Many of the classes are so generic and uncreative that they aren't fun to play. If you wanna level for example havoc trooper, turian soldier and human soldier to 20 they are all so similar in playstyle that it gets really tedious. If you've played one you've kinda played them all. Meanwhile if you did human, turian and batarian or krogan in me3 they were very different and had very different playstyles.
Or take the adepts. In this game they all just have very basic powers and similat prime + detonate abilities on a normal cooldown. While in me3 you had the drell that had aoe reave + cluster nuking, the human adept played more like the adepts in this game, the asari adept could be played pretty differently with stasis bubble and a high powered gun, or you could support the team with armor debuffs and biotic explosions. Now I'm not saying every biotic in this game is the same but there were bigger differences in playstyle between the adepts in me3, especially if you also include later addition like the justicar and fury.
The amount of variation between the soldiers in me3 compared to how similar the soldiers/troopers are in this is a perfect example actually of what's wrong with the class balancing at the moment. Currently I only enjoy maybe 5 characters, the others are so boring. In me3 at launch there were a much larger variety of fun characters. Well at least they were more different from each other. In this game every asari has lance and 2 have throw, why so little variety? Why does every engineer have the same turret (they could have used combat drone or a more geth turret type of turret as well) why does every trooper type have turbocharge? Why couldn't one of them at least get inferno greandes instead of multiple having frags? If adrenaline rush was op it should have just been tweaked, it would have been better than just taking it out and giving them the same ability as turians. Where's the variety and creativity?
Now add to this that powers are generally underperforming and on a low cooldown and gameplay basically end up with 80% gunplay or melee and your powers and build doesn't matter all that much unless you're an infiltrator or a greande spam class. While in 3 powers did more so build mattered more and in turn lead to more variety in gamplay and you had much more distinct differences in playstyle between the various classes. Which was fun. Using one of the same 3-4 guns 80% of the game every game because my powers barely make a difference is a lot less fun.
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