[CSI: Nexus] The Jien Garson murder case

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[CSI: Nexus] The Jien Garson murder case Apr 22, 2017 22:21:20 GMT Hrungr likes this

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Post by MegaIllusiveMan on Apr 22, 2017 22:21:20 GMT

Apr 3, 2017 0:38:44 GMT Hrungr said:

My money's on SAM being the Benefactor.

SAM was already partially complete by the time we hear from "The Benefactor". The fact that TB hides behind rotating set of different voices & faces is what first made me wonder. Being an AI, it could rapidly accumulate the wealth it needed (which we've seen an AI do already in ME), would explain it's interest in, well, improving itself, and would comprehend the threat the Reapers posed. And as it was still early in it's development, it's "humanity" is still an evolving state. It orchestrated Jian's death as she began to question TB, which in turn could jeopardize the entire Initiative project should the truth be learned.

SAM could employ others to work on its behalf and is the answer to the question why TB never revealed themselves after arriving in Andromeda.

Holy shit, that actually makes a lot of sense.

When I read about the female voice, I was like "Isn't SAM VA female, but they changed it and synthetized it a bit?"
Turns out it is

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[CSI: Nexus] The Jien Garson murder case Apr 22, 2017 22:31:18 GMT

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Post by MegaIllusiveMan on Apr 22, 2017 22:31:18 GMT

Apr 22, 2017 13:32:58 GMT Maeljin said:

I haven't read the book, so I don't if she was even awake at the time, but there's something off about Addison... (and please, no jokes about The Face)

I started another playthrough yesterday and after establishing the outpost on Eos if you take a more negative attitude with her and then answer using the logical (I think? The one that is usually in the upper right corner anyhow) choice, she averts her gaze and says in an almost remorseful tone 'I know what I came here to be, like she's alluding to something else altogether.

Not saying she's the killer or the Benefactor, but she knows more than she's letting on.
OR most likely it's just that I don't like her character and thus am reading into things in the hopes of getting a chance to take her down a notch or ten hahah.

Yeah, through the game you learn more about these things, but I don't think she may be refering to them.

Krogan leaving, Spender, the Three Sabers incident and Dr.Zoe's child. That pretty much solves the "She knows more than she's letting on"

Haven't read the book yet, but it's obvious the benefactor is on Andromeda. My bet s/he is still aboard the Nexus and wasn't part of the exiles or the rebellion.

Sorry for my bad English, I'm a potato

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[CSI: Nexus] The Jien Garson murder case Apr 22, 2017 23:09:02 GMT

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Post by MegaIllusiveMan on Apr 22, 2017 23:09:02 GMT

I don't quickly discard TIM being the benefactor despite being indocrinated. Since his indocrination happened 2186, if he was the benefactor, the Reapers could've come up with a plan to stop the AI from happening, thus explaining the delay on the other Arks.

Altough, it could still be Scourge problems and I highly doubt it could be TIM, since I am almost 100% whoever was the benefactor wanted a ticket for Andromeda.
-Or it could be Cerberus all over. "Cerberus is an idea, and an idea can't be killed" (even after 600 years and in another galaxy)
But then again, another Cerberus plot would cause a major rampage, so not happening :lol:

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[CSI: Nexus] The Jien Garson murder case Apr 23, 2017 7:39:41 GMT ArabianIGoggles and MegaIllusiveMan like this

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Post by Maeljin on Apr 23, 2017 7:39:41 GMT

Apr 22, 2017 22:31:18 GMT MegaIllusiveMan said:

Apr 22, 2017 13:32:58 GMT Maeljin said:

I haven't read the book, so I don't if she was even awake at the time, but there's something off about Addison... (and please, no jokes about The Face)

I started another playthrough yesterday and after establishing the outpost on Eos if you take a more negative attitude with her and then answer using the logical (I think? The one that is usually in the upper right corner anyhow) choice, she averts her gaze and says in an almost remorseful tone 'I know what I came here to be, like she's alluding to something else altogether.

Not saying she's the killer or the Benefactor, but she knows more than she's letting on.
OR most likely it's just that I don't like her character and thus am reading into things in the hopes of getting a chance to take her down a notch or ten hahah.

Yeah, through the game you learn more about these things, but I don't think she may be refering to them.

Krogan leaving, Spender, the Three Sabers incident and Dr.Zoe's child. That pretty much solves the "She knows more than she's letting on"

Haven't read the book yet, but it's obvious the benefactor is on Andromeda. My bet s/he is still aboard the Nexus and wasn't part of the exiles or the rebellion.

Yeah, I know it's just wishful thinking on my part hahah. She is quite incompetent.
In general I'd like more options/interactions with the leaders; especially opportunities to clearly disagree with them.
I mean the first interaction with Addison? Your dad just died and she plays a grammar Nazi? I would've gone ballistic hahah.

Back on topic, I'm starting to lean the SAM theory more and more.
The only motives for the murder I can think of on the top of my head are: power play (boooooriiiiinggggg) or concealing who/what they are (i.e. an AI). Yaghs can't exactly sneak around and any other race we know wouldn't cause panic simply by being what they are.

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[CSI: Nexus] The Jien Garson murder case Apr 23, 2017 13:28:13 GMT Maeljin likes this

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Post by MegaIllusiveMan on Apr 23, 2017 13:28:13 GMT

Apr 23, 2017 7:39:41 GMT Maeljin said:

Apr 22, 2017 22:31:18 GMT MegaIllusiveMan said:

Yeah, through the game you learn more about these things, but I don't think she may be refering to them.

Krogan leaving, Spender, the Three Sabers incident and Dr.Zoe's child. That pretty much solves the "She knows more than she's letting on"

Haven't read the book yet, but it's obvious the benefactor is on Andromeda. My bet s/he is still aboard the Nexus and wasn't part of the exiles or the rebellion.

Yeah, I know it's just wishful thinking on my part hahah. She is quite incompetent.
In general I'd like more options/interactions with the leaders; especially opportunities to clearly disagree with them.
I mean the first interaction with Addison? Your dad just died and she plays a grammar Nazi? I would've gone ballistic hahah.

Back on topic, I'm starting to lean the SAM theory more and more.
The only motives for the murder I can think of on the top of my head are: power play (boooooriiiiinggggg) or concealing who/what they are (i.e. an AI). Yaghs can't exactly sneak around and any other race we know wouldn't cause panic simply by being what they are.

SAM and Addison as the Benefactor confirmed

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[CSI: Nexus] The Jien Garson murder case Apr 24, 2017 1:28:01 GMT

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Post by MarilynRobert on Apr 24, 2017 1:28:01 GMT

Apr 22, 2017 13:32:58 GMT Maeljin said:

I haven't read the book, so I don't if she was even awake at the time, but there's something off about Addison... (and please, no jokes about The Face)

I started another playthrough yesterday and after establishing the outpost on Eos if you take a more negative attitude with her and then answer using the logical (I think? The one that is usually in the upper right corner anyhow) choice, she averts her gaze and says in an almost remorseful tone 'I know what I came here to be, like she's alluding to something else altogether.

Not saying she's the killer or the Benefactor, but she knows more than she's letting on.
OR most likely it's just that I don't like her character and thus am reading into things in the hopes of getting a chance to take her down a notch or ten hahah.

It was very noticeable to me, when reading the book, that we get to read part of the book from the viewpoints of various lead book characters but we never read anything from Addison's viewpoint. That made me suspect her even more although I do think she is being set up to look like the obvious murderer so probably she isn't the murderer.

I could see it being Reyes or a SAM...hope we do find out who did it in the future, although I could see Jien still being alive too.

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[CSI: Nexus] The Jien Garson murder case Apr 24, 2017 3:28:22 GMT MarilynRobert and Vall like this

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Post by dazk on Apr 24, 2017 3:28:22 GMT

During my first play through my "guess" was Reyes was either the benefactor or complicit in the murder of Jien Garson and second time through it still felt right. The quote where he says "I wanted to be someone" on his reasons for coming to Andromeda and the way he operates in general seem to allude it would at least be possible he was involved or the instigator. However I still can't see a really obvious reason for killing her.

The SAM theory, I just can't see it but people have put some plausible reasons as to how but the "why" is still too unclear.

Did Sam want Alec to be in charge of the whole show once in Andromeda? Even if so why kill Garson? She supported Alec's AI development and they seemed to have been communicating as trusted allies. Just doesn't make sense.

I am hoping that the Quarian Ark problem is a tied into figuring out who TB is and why Garson was murdered.

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[CSI: Nexus] The Jien Garson murder case Apr 24, 2017 5:12:59 GMT Seven Zettabytes, Vall, and 3 more like this

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Post by NRieh on Apr 24, 2017 5:12:59 GMT

The SAM theory, I just can't see it but people have put some plausible reasons as to how but the "why" is still too unclear.

Did Sam want Alec to be in charge of the whole show once in Andromeda? Even if so why kill Garson?

Alec did not know the true identity of this 'person', and as much as he was attached to SAM - I doubt he'd love the idea of him being THAT advanced (basically, toying with his own creator and lying to him). It would be hard to accept something like that in their own head, even for Alec.

Garson could be close enough and\or too nosy ( I don't think she had actually revealed him).

It's just I can't put any solid logic behind the TB being human\humans (or any 'normal' species).

Another theory is not much of a theory itself (it's a crazy one) but that would be...
...a 'Renegade Reaper'
- Has all the benefits of an advanced AI
- Knows about the Reapers coming
- Is interested in preserving the species instead of wiping them out
- May REMEMER about the Andromeda \ have something to do with the 'Geth space-magical telescope'
- Has all the reasons to stay hidden
- We've had 'heretics' among the geth already, so..why not?

In case of emergency use your imagination.

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[CSI: Nexus] The Jien Garson murder case Apr 24, 2017 5:22:24 GMT via mobile

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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 24, 2017 5:22:24 GMT

Apr 13, 2017 17:05:58 GMT Fogg said:

Decent theory on Reddit:

Been thinking about Kadara, and the fact that the game pushes you very hard into thinking the Collective and Reyes are the cut-and-dry best option for everyone. When I see a clean 'this is the Right Choice', I smell a narrative trap. So what could Reyes' dark secret be?

Well, we know the following things:

Reyes Vidal has been awake for a long time, but we don't know for how long.

Reyes came to Andromeda - in his words - to "be somebody".

The only time we see Cerberus show up in ME:A is on Kadara, with a couple of scientists performing mind control experiments on a group of aliens.

The name of Reyes' gang, "The Collective", ties in with the nature of the Cerberus scientists' experiments.

The 'benefactor' is probably the Illusive Man. There isn't much to go on here, but small things like Cora Harper sharing a surname and the human SAM being the most advanced in the Initiative hint at it, albeit gently.

The Collective is far from a group of happy-clappy superfriends. We see what they did to the Outcast operative behind a hidden wall in Kadara, and we know they're cultivating fungi to make poison.

In the novel, "Nexus Uprising", we see that Sloane Kelly had great respect for Jien Garson.

What if Reyes Vidal is the Illusive Man's agent, and the murderer of Jien Garson? What if Sloane found out that the leader of the Collective was responsible, even if she didn't know that leader's exact identity?

Perhaps the Illusive Man intended for the Andromeda Initiative to be a fresh start for Cerberus, a fallback plan for if Milky Way civilisation was successfully harvested.

Jien Garson would never have supported a human supremacist civilisation, so she had to go, after which Reyes Vidal would pull strings in the shadows to the Illusive Man's ends.

The Scourge disaster threw all the plans out the window, but Reyes is a smart guy, and he's just adapting the timetable to take advantage of the chaos.

Getting on the human ark's good side would be critical to his agenda, and how better to do that than to cosy up with the human Pathfinder?

Would love to hear any counterarguments and/or supporting details that I've missed.

Why would the illusive man be involved? He would be long dead before they even arrived.

After 5 years and $40 million they give you a Mass Effect beta demo to prepare for Anthem. Sold at full price featuring never to be resolved cliffhangers. BioWare is over Pyjaks.

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[CSI: Nexus] The Jien Garson murder case Apr 24, 2017 6:30:21 GMT MarilynRobert and dazk like this

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Post by Maeljin on Apr 24, 2017 6:30:21 GMT

Apr 24, 2017 1:28:01 GMT MarilynRobert said:

Apr 22, 2017 13:32:58 GMT Maeljin said:

I haven't read the book, so I don't if she was even awake at the time, but there's something off about Addison... (and please, no jokes about The Face)

I started another playthrough yesterday and after establishing the outpost on Eos if you take a more negative attitude with her and then answer using the logical (I think? The one that is usually in the upper right corner anyhow) choice, she averts her gaze and says in an almost remorseful tone 'I know what I came here to be, like she's alluding to something else altogether.

Not saying she's the killer or the Benefactor, but she knows more than she's letting on.
OR most likely it's just that I don't like her character and thus am reading into things in the hopes of getting a chance to take her down a notch or ten hahah.

It was very noticeable to me, when reading the book, that we get to read part of the book from the viewpoints of various lead book characters but we never read anything from Addison's viewpoint. That made me suspect her even more although I do think she is being set up to look like the obvious murderer so probably she isn't the murderer.

I could see it being Reyes or a SAM...hope we do find out who did it in the future, although I could see Jien still being alive too.

Yeah, not getting into her mind, so to speak, is a red flag.

I reckon the murder mystery is definitely dlc or even sequel material. Garson still being alive crossed my mind as well, but again I can't come up with a reason for her framing her own death.... AAargh, I want answers already! :pinched:

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[CSI: Nexus] The Jien Garson murder case Apr 24, 2017 11:29:02 GMT

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Post by Fogg on Apr 24, 2017 11:29:02 GMT

Apr 24, 2017 5:22:24 GMT zipzap2000 said:

Apr 13, 2017 17:05:58 GMT Fogg said:

Decent theory on Reddit:

Why would the illusive man be involved? He would be long dead before they even arrived.

He dedicated his life to a pro human cause. He might want to invest in a back up plan for when the Reapers succeed, even if he won't witness it himself.

[CSI: Nexus] The Jien Garson murder case

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[CSI: Nexus] The Jien Garson murder case Apr 24, 2017 11:37:02 GMT via mobile

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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 24, 2017 11:37:02 GMT

Apr 24, 2017 11:29:02 GMT Fogg said:

Apr 24, 2017 5:22:24 GMT zipzap2000 said:

Why would the illusive man be involved? He would be long dead before they even arrived.

He dedicated his life to a pro human cause. He might want to invest in a back up plan for when the Reapers succeed, even if he won't witness it himself.

Still dont see it.

After 5 years and $40 million they give you a Mass Effect beta demo to prepare for Anthem. Sold at full price featuring never to be resolved cliffhangers. BioWare is over Pyjaks.

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[CSI: Nexus] The Jien Garson murder case Apr 24, 2017 12:37:25 GMT via mobile

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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Apr 24, 2017 12:37:25 GMT

Apr 24, 2017 6:30:21 GMT Maeljin said:

Apr 24, 2017 1:28:01 GMT MarilynRobert said:

It was very noticeable to me, when reading the book, that we get to read part of the book from the viewpoints of various lead book characters but we never read anything from Addison's viewpoint. That made me suspect her even more although I do think she is being set up to look like the obvious murderer so probably she isn't the murderer.

I could see it being Reyes or a SAM...hope we do find out who did it in the future, although I could see Jien still being alive too.

Yeah, not getting into her mind, so to speak, is a red flag.

I reckon the murder mystery is definitely dlc or even sequel material. Garson still being alive crossed my mind as well, but again I can't come up with a reason for her framing her own death.... AAargh, I want answers already! :pinched:

Flushing out the benefactor maybe? I dunno, just playing devil's advocate here.

Ahriman N4 Posts: 1,503 Likes: 1,803 Ahriman inherit Male 131 0 Dec 17, 2018 14:01:15 GMT 1,803 Ahriman 1,503 N4 Aug 1, 2016 16:22:32 GMT August 2016 ahriman	[CSI: Nexus] The Jien Garson murder case Apr 24, 2017 12:42:39 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Ahriman on Apr 24, 2017 12:42:39 GMT Garson's death was confirmed by Sloanne. If Chief of Security couldn't even perform body identification properly, I gonna get to Kadara to shoot her again.
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[CSI: Nexus] The Jien Garson murder case Apr 24, 2017 13:27:29 GMT

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Post by bryanky5 on Apr 24, 2017 13:27:29 GMT

Apr 24, 2017 12:42:39 GMT Ahriman said:

Garson's death was confirmed by Sloanne. If Chief of Security couldn't even perform body identification properly, I gonna get to Kadara to shoot her again.

It should be noted that they mentioned in the novel that the body was heavily burnt to the point where it was very difficult to recognise her.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sloane made a mistake. She shouldn't but if you wanted to mask someone from being identified, burning them to a crisp is a good way to do it.

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[CSI: Nexus] The Jien Garson murder case Apr 24, 2017 14:34:21 GMT

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Post by Ahriman on Apr 24, 2017 14:34:21 GMT

Apr 24, 2017 13:27:29 GMT bryanky5 said:

Apr 24, 2017 12:42:39 GMT Ahriman said:

Garson's death was confirmed by Sloanne. If Chief of Security couldn't even perform body identification properly, I gonna get to Kadara to shoot her again.

It should be noted that they mentioned in the novel that the body was heavily burnt to the point where it was very difficult to recognise her.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sloane made a mistake. She shouldn't but if you wanted to mask someone from being identified, burning them to a crisp is a good way to do it.

If you see that body is heavily burnt you say "Welp, it's time for DNA test", not "Since it's a woman's body and Jien was one, there is no reason for further investigation".

Every day we stray further from Shepard's light

warlorejohn N2 Chemo stoped working, no chemo left for my cancer type. Posts: 59 Likes: 93 warlorejohn inherit Male 430 0 Aug 29, 2017 6:29:40 GMT 93 warlorejohn Chemo stoped working, no chemo left for my cancer type. 59 N2 Aug 3, 2016 4:38:53 GMT August 2016 warlorejohn	[CSI: Nexus] The Jien Garson murder case Apr 24, 2017 15:28:02 GMT dazk and Sairys like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by warlorejohn on Apr 24, 2017 15:28:02 GMT Reyes is my choice eighter he is THB or works for him,explains his plot armor while Sloane can die.

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[CSI: Nexus] The Jien Garson murder case Apr 24, 2017 16:51:04 GMT dazk and Sairys like this

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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 24, 2017 16:51:04 GMT

Apr 24, 2017 16:47:54 GMT Friera said:

Apr 14, 2017 17:55:38 GMT @praiseadraste said:

I like this. It'd also help explain Reyes's plot armor.

What do you mean with "plot armor"?

He survives no matter what in the game despite becoming an enemy depending on your choices. Even if you try shooting him, it is the one time in the game where Ryder suddenly becomes a terrible shot even though Reyes couldn't have been an easier target.

Last Edit: Apr 24, 2017 16:51:26 GMT by Hanako Ikezawa

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[CSI: Nexus] The Jien Garson murder case Apr 24, 2017 16:55:40 GMT

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Post by Friera on Apr 24, 2017 16:55:40 GMT

Apr 24, 2017 16:51:04 GMT Hanako Ikezawa said:

Apr 24, 2017 16:47:54 GMT Friera said:

What do you mean with "plot armor"?

He survives no matter what in the game despite becoming an enemy depending on your choices. Even if you try shooting him, it is the one time in the game where Ryder suddenly becomes a terrible shot even though Reyes couldn't have been an easier target.

Thanks!
He might be a Solas 2.0. I can´t wait. I will be very happy if he is an important character in MEA2 (or DLCs). Although this diminish his chances for being a permanent squadmember in MEA2 or as a DLC...

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[CSI: Nexus] The Jien Garson murder case Apr 24, 2017 16:59:50 GMT

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Post by kenshen19 on Apr 24, 2017 16:59:50 GMT

Apr 24, 2017 14:34:21 GMT Ahriman said:

Apr 24, 2017 13:27:29 GMT bryanky5 said:

It should be noted that they mentioned in the novel that the body was heavily burnt to the point where it was very difficult to recognise her.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sloane made a mistake. She shouldn't but if you wanted to mask someone from being identified, burning them to a crisp is a good way to do it.

If you see that body is heavily burnt you say "Welp, it's time for DNA test", not "Since it's a woman's body and Jien was one, there is no reason for further investigation".

It is true that you can't believe everything you see on tv I have seen it a few times on different cop shows that depending on how badly the body is burned it might not be possible to do a DNA test. I would think some extra effort would have been made considering this was the top dog of the AI but I guess not.

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[CSI: Nexus] The Jien Garson murder case Apr 24, 2017 17:26:29 GMT

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Post by elanor on Apr 24, 2017 17:26:29 GMT

I don't think that Benefactor is Illusive Man. He had other things on his mind when Initiative started. I think devs said it clearly that they won't come back to Cerberus.
That said I'm not ruling out possibility that Reyes might have something to do with Benefactor.

If too many people will be suspicious about Reyes or SAM they might change the plot just to troll with us. :lol:

Last Edit: Apr 24, 2017 17:29:27 GMT by elanor

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[CSI: Nexus] The Jien Garson murder case Apr 25, 2017 13:12:37 GMT revanshep78 likes this

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Post by Fogg on Apr 25, 2017 13:12:37 GMT

Apr 24, 2017 17:26:29 GMT elanor said:

I don't think that Benefactor is Illusive Man. He had other things on his mind when Initiative started. I think devs said it clearly that they won't come back to Cerberus.
That said I'm not ruling out possibility that Reyes might have something to do with Benefactor.

If too many people will be suspicious about Reyes or SAM they might change the plot just to troll with us. :lol:

Well, not 'clearly'.

Jake‏ @hypetrains101

@macwalterslives Could the Initiative's benefactors have ties to Cerberus?

Mac Walters‏ @macwalterslives

Not likely. Cerberus was too busy rebuilding Shep or preparing for the imminent arrival of you-know-who... #Reapers

It's not a hard no. It also sounds a bit like "Santa not being real? How do you get your presents then?". But if he just wanted to keep it a secret, he could've also chosen not to reply.

We also now know that the Benefactor's involvement started well before ME1, so the 'rebuilding Shepard' argument isn't entirely valid. SAM might have even be used in the Lazarus project.

Last Edit: Apr 25, 2017 13:14:04 GMT by Fogg

[CSI: Nexus] The Jien Garson murder case

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[CSI: Nexus] The Jien Garson murder case Apr 25, 2017 15:17:26 GMT

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Post by elanor on Apr 25, 2017 15:17:26 GMT

Apr 25, 2017 13:12:37 GMT Fogg said:

Apr 24, 2017 17:26:29 GMT elanor said:

I don't think that Benefactor is Illusive Man. He had other things on his mind when Initiative started. I think devs said it clearly that they won't come back to Cerberus.
That said I'm not ruling out possibility that Reyes might have something to do with Benefactor.

If too many people will be suspicious about Reyes or SAM they might change the plot just to troll with us. :lol:

Well, not 'clearly'.

Jake‏ @hypetrains101

@macwalterslives Could the Initiative's benefactors have ties to Cerberus?

Mac Walters‏ @macwalterslives

Not likely. Cerberus was too busy rebuilding Shep or preparing for the imminent arrival of you-know-who... #Reapers

It's not a hard no. It also sounds a bit like "Santa not being real? How do you get your presents then?". But if he just wanted to keep it a secret, he could've also chosen not to reply.

We also now know that the Benefactor's involvement started well before ME1, so the 'rebuilding Shepard' argument isn't entirely valid. SAM might have even be used in the Lazarus project.

Well, it's two ex Cerberus scientist doesn't mean that Cerberus is back. I take it as something of a wink for trilogy fans.
I really hope that there won't be Cerberus come back because I have enough of them and Tim even in ME3.

revanshep78
N2

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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[CSI: Nexus] The Jien Garson murder case Apr 25, 2017 17:05:00 GMT

Quote

Post by revanshep78 on Apr 25, 2017 17:05:00 GMT

I'm impressed with some of the sleuthing in here. There are some top notch theories that really make a lot of sense. Especially Hrungr 's theory about SAM.

Regarding Reyes, clearly he is meant for more in the next game. Either as an NPC, plot driver, and perhaps even as a squadmate. Everyone's research brings compelling evidence that he clearly is an agent for someone or possibly even the Benefactor.

My hope is that BW has thought ahead with the majority of these unresolved stories and have some kind of cohesive narrative to wrap them up. I hate, HATE loose ends.

Last Edit: Apr 25, 2017 18:10:28 GMT by revanshep78

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