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Post by Pearl on Apr 12, 2017 0:39:29 GMT
I think it's more likely that BSN is biased against poorly written, shallow characters.
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Post by NUM13ER on Apr 12, 2017 0:39:36 GMT
You should ask why the players who hates all three of them if they are bias. Is Bioware bias? Well... Vivienne is cocky, ambitious and calculative not unlike Morrigan or Flemeth. So, if a player likes Morrigan but hates Vivienne, it is not Bioware's bias. Jacob is plain boring. Liam is that little dork brother who always wants to hang out with the older brother and friends and always manages to come up with goofy awkward things to say and do. I thought I'd hate Vivienne, typical "rich snob" I thought, but she's actually fairly open with her ambitions and a lot more interesting than first impressions indicated. I didn't agree with a lot of her opinions on the Circle and the Chantry but the fact she had opinions made her interesting at least. Plus I enjoyed her banter with Sera.
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Post by sageoflife on Apr 12, 2017 0:40:06 GMT
I see this going well. Anyway, I like Liam just fine, even if he does have various moments of stupidity. My dislike of Jacob stems from the fact that he doesn't really let the player know him. Every time the player tries to understand Jacob on a deeper level, he brushes them off and in some cases gets outright hostile. Why should we care about this character who obviously doesn't want us getting close when there are all these interesting and complex people we can talk to without getting pushed away? I dislike Vivienne because I consider people like her to be everything that's wrong with the world. She is a stuck-up, condescending, willfully ignorant, hypocritical snob who is willing to throw everyone else under the bus, to the point of potentially starting a war just so she can have her way.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 0:40:39 GMT
You forgot the worst one, mother Gisele.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 12, 2017 0:43:29 GMT
They have the same style of facial hair. As far as the face, however, it's a stretch to say they are "clones." They don't even really look similar, as their facial structure and features are clearly different.
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Post by cheeseandonion on Apr 12, 2017 0:46:58 GMT
Maybe Bioware are bias against black characters? And that's why they keep making them so shit.
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Post by Doominike on Apr 12, 2017 0:49:08 GMT
Liam isn't unlikeable per se, he's just kind of annoying imo. Jacob is just boring. Vivienne is a c-word. Nothing to do with skin color.
Unlike seemingly everyone else who played ME though, I don't like Anderson either, not sure why.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 0:52:22 GMT
People love to hate Vivienne. She's fine. The problem with Liam and Jacob is that they're written by a certain person who has trouble writing dialogue that makes sense, especially when it comes to black men. I feel like my IQ drops every time I talk to Liam, he is that awful. Jacob, Liam, Carver, and Sera all share the same writer. I couldn't stand Sera, and while I didn't dislike either Carver, Jacob or Liam, I found all three to be the least interesting of their respective squads. I think for the most part I'm just not a fan of characters written by Lukas Kristjanson. On the other hand he wrote Aveline, who was one of my favorites from DA2's squad.
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Post by FeralEwok on Apr 12, 2017 0:53:24 GMT
I hate Vivienne because she's a well written character. She's not having any of the player's shit, maintains her own opinion, is opportunistic, is rarely if ever being sincere and open, and she can completely write you off at the end of the game if she becomes Divine. She's the great kind of bad.
Jacob and Liam are just a mess of bad acting, bad writing, and bad actions.
Are there racists and/or misogynists on the forums? Most likely. Definitely. But usually they are too busy ranting about being anti-PC, accusing others of being brainwashed SJWs, complaining about Bioware pandering to minority groups to ever really attack the low hanging fruit that is Jacob and Liam. They say dumb things, do dumb things, and are vastly out-shined by better more interesting and more charismatic characters.
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Post by timebean on Apr 12, 2017 0:56:10 GMT
Liam isn't unlikeable per se, he's just kind of annoying imo. Jacob is just boring. Vivienne is a c-word. Nothing to do with skin color. Unlike seemingly everyone else who played ME though, I don't like Anderson either, not sure why. Oh shit! Dude, you better "examine your own internal biases" ASAP! You might be a racist! *sarcasm* Edited! Oh no! I called you dude and you are female! I might be a sexist!
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Post by doch on Apr 12, 2017 0:57:51 GMT
No, Anderson was probably one of the more popular Mass Effect characters that wasn't a squadmate. DA's Isabela was also quite popular, and she's biracial. Jacob was unpopular because he was not a well written character and Vivienne was not liked by many because she was pro-Chantry and anti-mage, two positions that did not mesh well with a lot of players' Inquisitors. (I like her for both of those reasons, by the way) Neither would have gotten a different reaction if they were a different shade. While Liam is arguably the least liked of ME:A's squadmates, a large part of that is just that he's male and human. Male LIs are always less popular than the female LIs because there are more male players, and human characters less popular than the aliens because a lot of players find humans dull in comparison to a weird Sci Fi alien. Loved Anderson. He was a class act and a leader. Wish he would've came back in a later game and be a squad member. He had Shepard's back, and Shepard had his.
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Post by zaeedisking on Apr 12, 2017 0:59:59 GMT
Unlike seemingly everyone else who played ME though, I don't like Anderson either, not sure why.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 12, 2017 1:02:39 GMT
Liam isn't unlikeable per se, he's just kind of annoying imo. Jacob is just boring. Vivienne is a c-word. Nothing to do with skin color. Unlike seemingly everyone else who played ME though, I don't like Anderson either, not sure why. I found Anderson somewhat annoying in ME1. It came across at times that Anderson resented Shepard for having the opportunity that he should have had if not for Saren. I didn't really have a problem with him in ME2 and ME3. Although, I will always think this is one of the funniest lines in the entire trilogy due to Anderson's accent, being from London, and how he looks at Shepard after Shepard says "really?"
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 12, 2017 1:03:49 GMT
Anderson is a god to Mass Effect fans. Look at this picture. Witness just how fucking badass it is. Liam and Jacob are like the buzzing of flies to him. Gay.
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Post by FeralEwok on Apr 12, 2017 1:03:55 GMT
Loved Anderson. He was a class act and a leader. Wish he would've came back in a later game and be a squad member. He had Shepard's back, and Shepard had his. Contrast this with Jacob, who ghosts you for six months and knocks up another woman. And Liam, while not anywhere as bad, is highly immature, unable to keep emotions in check, and incompetently boss around the PC despite having screwed up his loyalty mission... Also did you know Anderson is from London?
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Post by doch on Apr 12, 2017 1:04:29 GMT
Could it be that to a degree Bioware stereotyped them, thus alienating them right off the bat?
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Post by Raga on Apr 12, 2017 1:04:33 GMT
I've noticed that black characters in Bioware games (Jacob, Liam, Vivienne) are usually among the most disliked on BSN (new and old). These characters are all very different so I'm curious why people hate all three of them. Now please don't get knee-jerk defensive, I'm not accusing anyone of being racist but I do want everyone to examine their own internal biases. I like Liam and Vivienne. Jacob can take a long walk off a short pier.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 12, 2017 1:05:42 GMT
I've always liked Anderson. But when they made Jacob a womanizer with a deadbeat, absentee father I had to question just what Bioware was doing. Liam is just a bad character as well. It seems like the black squadmates are just throw away token characters for diversity that they really don't put much effort into.
If we're being honest here.
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Post by Raga on Apr 12, 2017 1:06:27 GMT
Unlike seemingly everyone else who played ME though, I don't like Anderson either, not sure why. I don't like Anderson either. He's mopey and seems to fail at 95% of everything he tries.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 1:09:02 GMT
Jacob was boring and stand-offish, and his romance ark was super creepy. Aw come on, you know you had the hots for him in that tight jumpsuit he wore, just admit it.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 12, 2017 1:10:18 GMT
I've always liked Anderson. But when they made Jacob a womanizer with a deadbeat, absentee father I had to question just what Bioware was doing. Liam is just a bad character as well. It seems like the black squadmates are just throw away token characters for diversity that they really don't put much effort into. If we're being honest here. In BioWare's defense, most of the squadmates in ME2 had daddy issues. I do believe that forcing Jacob into having a child by another woman, even if you romanced him as FemShep, was a major misstep by BioWare. Why was he the only character to cheat on his previous love interest? I disagree that the black characters are just "tokens." Vivienne, whether you loved or hated her, was an amazingly well-written character that had a really interesting and unique perspective on issues.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 12, 2017 1:18:08 GMT
I've always liked Anderson. But when they made Jacob a womanizer with a deadbeat, absentee father I had to question just what Bioware was doing. Liam is just a bad character as well. It seems like the black squadmates are just throw away token characters for diversity that they really don't put much effort into. If we're being honest here. In BioWare's defense, most of the squadmates in ME2 had daddy issues. I do believe that forcing Jacob into having a child by another woman, even if you romanced him as FemShep, was a major misstep by BioWare. Why was he the only character to cheat on his previous love interest? I disagree that the black characters are just "tokens." Vivienne, whether you loved or hated her, was an amazingly well-written character that had a really interesting and unique perspective on issues. I wasn't really talking DA, they're two different teams, which is why i didn't mention Isabella or Vivienne. I thought we were talking about the squadmates we had in ME.
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Post by Neria on Apr 12, 2017 1:19:03 GMT
I loved Liam (he's adorable and made me laugh), loved Vivienne (her arguments make sense for keeping the Circles intact) and liked Jacob (made a great friend for my FemShep, was never romantically interested). But I'm not the target audience for this question since I am black . This board has a few openly racist folks (avoid some threads in the off-topic section.. or don't since it makes it easier to pick out whom to block), but that's to be expected everywhere.
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Post by zaeedisking on Apr 12, 2017 1:20:39 GMT
Liam is just terrible all around. Not only does he look/act goofy his VA sounded goofy delivering the lines half the time... albeit the dialogue he's given can be borderline ridiculous at times so I can cut him some slack. Viv is great and one of my favorite squaddies of DAI.. she has one of the more vivid (pun intended) and engaging personalities (regardless of whether you liked her or not) of the entire DA series. Jacob was just meh... he never bothered me that much but was never interesting enough for me to bring along most missions.
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Post by smellycatbutts on Apr 12, 2017 1:21:25 GMT
I like Liam as a character, but his romance is a bit lacking. He does have the funniest LM though. Jacob, again, as a character is fine, but his romance, ugh. Probably BW's worst. What the actual fuck? Vivienne. I liked her for what she was pro-Chantry, ladder climbing, ice queen.
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