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Post by Javik on Apr 12, 2017 0:06:02 GMT
I've noticed that black characters in Bioware games (Jacob, Liam, Vivienne) are usually among the most disliked on BSN (new and old). These characters are all very different so I'm curious why people hate all three of them. Now please don't get knee-jerk defensive, I'm not accusing anyone of being racist but I do want everyone to examine their own internal biases.
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Post by kino on Apr 12, 2017 0:08:14 GMT
Well, shit...this is different. Generally it's people calling out BioWare.
Carry on, man.
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Post by SwobyJ on Apr 12, 2017 0:11:11 GMT
Hilarious with Javik.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Apr 12, 2017 0:12:30 GMT
I like Liam because he acts kind of goofy. I liked Jacob alright but I didn't find him as interesting as other characters and I generally didn't like Vivienne because I didn't like her attitude but I liked that she was in the game (not all characters are meant to be liked).
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Post by Deana on Apr 12, 2017 0:18:26 GMT
I like all of them, Liam is my favourite. Sometimes they do things I don't agree with but that's no reason to dislike them as a whole.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 12, 2017 0:19:33 GMT
I suppose "race" could always be a motivating factor for some? However, I do think there are some valid reasons not to like these characters due to some of their actions and beliefs.
Vivienne is easily the most unlikable, given her views on mages, the Circles, the Chantry, and how Thedas should "work." If you don't share her very stringent, conservative, and narrow-minded perspective on certain politics, you aren't likely going to get along with her. That being said, I actually found her personality, otherwise, to be quite refreshing and I enjoyed her witty insults at the other companions. She had a special kind of charm and condescension that I found amusing and pleasant at times.
With regard to Jacob, I actually enjoyed his character in ME2. I've heard some had issues with him if they played as FemShep, as he apparently comes off a little strong (I do not know). I've only played as Sheploo, but what I can say is I found Jacob to be interesting, albeit somewhat stale at times. I think the reason many may dislike him in ME3 is due to the whole "infidelity" story BioWare threw in. It's not an issue for Sheploos, but it is an issue for FemSheps who romanced Jacob in ME2. Regardless of whether you romanced him or not, he will always go with a new woman, who also happens to be pregnant. That's less of an issue of the character and more of a blunder on BioWare's part, however.
As far as Liam is concerned, he's impulsive, reckless, and a bit silly. His antics get the crew in a lot of trouble, even though he really does want to do the right thing. I don't really have too much of an issue with him (he also has the best loyalty mission by a landslide). I can definitely see why those who take the mission far more seriously would have issues with Liam. Of course, those same individuals should also take issue with Peebee, as she's no better.
I don't think it really has anything to do with their race (for most players) at all. I think it's just a matter of character flaws that make the companions unappealing for some.
Anderson is easily one of the most liked and best characters in the entire Mass Effect franchise.
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Post by The Twilight God on Apr 12, 2017 0:19:58 GMT
I've noticed that black characters in Bioware games (Jacob, Liam, Vivienne) are usually among the most disliked on BSN (new and old). These characters are all very different so I'm curious why people hate all three of them. Now please don't get knee-jerk defensive, I'm not accusing anyone of being racist but I do want everyone to examine their own internal biases. The same reason black movies are "black movies" and white people generally don't go to see them.
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 12, 2017 0:20:06 GMT
I've noticed that black characters in Bioware games (Jacob, Liam, Vivienne) are usually among the most disliked on BSN (new and old). These characters are all very different so I'm curious why people hate all three of them. They are just badly written characters. What more needs be said? Ah I get it now, doing a little fishing are we? :smh:
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Post by NUM13ER on Apr 12, 2017 0:20:52 GMT
Anderson is a god to Mass Effect fans. Look at this picture. Witness just how fucking badass it is. Liam and Jacob are like the buzzing of flies to him.
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timebean
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It's just a game, folks...
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Post by timebean on Apr 12, 2017 0:21:16 GMT
Jacob was boring and stand-offish, and his romance ark was super creepy.
Liam was a liability to my crew and my efforts as pathfinder (and I could not call him out on it).
LOVED Vivienne!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 0:21:23 GMT
No, Anderson was probably one of the more popular Mass Effect characters that wasn't a squadmate. DA's Isabela was also quite popular, and she's biracial.
Jacob was unpopular because he was not a well written character and Vivienne was not liked by many because she was pro-Chantry and anti-mage, two positions that did not mesh well with a lot of players' Inquisitors. (I like her for both of those reasons, by the way) Neither would have gotten a different reaction if they were a different shade.
While Liam is arguably the least liked of ME:A's squadmates, a large part of that is just that he's male and human. Male LIs are always less popular than the female LIs because there are more male players, and human characters less popular than the aliens because a lot of players find humans dull in comparison to a weird Sci Fi alien.
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Post by Nayawk on Apr 12, 2017 0:23:54 GMT
Liam is fun, I loved his loyalty mission and Viv is one of my fav characters in DAI. The only one out of that list I dislike is Jacob but then I disliked most of the ME2 cast so he wasn't singled out. I thought his writing was poor, his visual design was painful (dear god that body suit), none of which has anything to do with race.... the only thing which might count was the fact I find his voice actor was grating, so its possible what I am actually bias against is american accents
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Post by suikoden on Apr 12, 2017 0:24:12 GMT
I've noticed that black characters in Bioware games (Jacob, Liam, Vivienne) are usually among the most disliked on BSN (new and old). These characters are all very different so I'm curious why people hate all three of them. Now please don't get knee-jerk defensive, I'm not accusing anyone of being racist but I do want everyone to examine their own internal biases. They're all extremely poorly written. Liam especially. Someone needs to shoot that guy in the face. It doesn't help that they cloned Kanye West to make Jacob's face.
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timebean
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It's just a game, folks...
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Post by timebean on Apr 12, 2017 0:24:33 GMT
Anderson is a god to Mass Effect fans. Look at this picture. Look at how fucking badass it is. Liam and Jacob are like the buzzing of flies to him. THIS! All, day long, this. Anderson was my all time favorite NPC in the ME series. Total bad-ass, stayed behind on earth to fight reapers. I cried like a baby at the end of ME3 when he was sitting there with Shep, looking out over the battle, and bleeding out. Sorry to get off topic...I don't get enough opportunity to gush about Anderson.
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Post by parnashwind on Apr 12, 2017 0:25:49 GMT
You should ask why the players who hates all three of them if they are bias. Is Bioware bias? Well... Vivienne is cocky, ambitious and calculative not unlike Morrigan or Flemeth. So, if a player likes Morrigan but hates Vivienne, it is not Bioware's bias. Jacob is plain boring. Liam is that little dork brother who always wants to hang out with the older brother and friends and always manages to come up with goofy awkward things to say and do.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 0:26:45 GMT
Anderson is a god to Mass Effect fans. Look at this picture. Look at how fucking badass it is. Liam and Jacob are like the buzzing of flies to him. THIS! All, day long, this. Anderson was my all time favorite NPC in the ME series. Total bad-ass, stayed behind on earth to fight reapers. I cried like a baby at the end of ME3 when he was sitting there with Shep, looking out over the battle, and bleeding out. Sorry to get off topic...I don't get enough opportunity to gush about Anderson. I didn't shed a tear but that final scene with Anderson punched me right in the feels. He might be my favorite character that wasn't on the squad as well. I'd have to give it some thought. He's definitely my favorite Alliance character not named Shepard.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 12, 2017 0:27:55 GMT
I've noticed that black characters in Bioware games (Jacob, Liam, Vivienne) are usually among the most disliked on BSN (new and old). These characters are all very different so I'm curious why people hate all three of them. Now please don't get knee-jerk defensive, I'm not accusing anyone of being racist but I do want everyone to examine their own internal biases. They're all extremely poorly written. Liam especially. Someone needs to shoot that guy in the face. It doesn't help that they cloned Kanye West to make Jacob's face.
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Post by mordrek on Apr 12, 2017 0:28:45 GMT
Others have already said it, but Anderson is easily one of the most liked and Iconic figures of the MET. It's not skin color, it's bad writing.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Apr 12, 2017 0:31:21 GMT
When will Vivienne raw me though? That's what I need to know.
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timebean
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It's just a game, folks...
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Post by timebean on Apr 12, 2017 0:34:45 GMT
You should ask why the players who hates all three of them if they are bias. Is Bioware bias? Well... Vivienne is cocky, ambitious and calculative not unlike Morrigan or Flemeth. So, if a player likes Morrigan but hates Vivienne, it is not Bioware's bias.Jacob is plain boring. Liam is that little dork brother who always wants to hang out with the older brother and friends and always manages to come up with goofy awkward things to say and do. Irrelevant comparison. Vivienne is a chantry supporter, while Morrigan and Flemeth are outsiders who could give a shit about the chantry. That right there is a HUGE difference, especially in the mind of players who were really into the mage stuff. The only BIAS for most folks there is a religious/political one, NOT a racial one. I personally liked Vivienne for the very reasons you state (she was smart and not afraid to show it), but alot of folks do not because she, as Morrigan would say, allowed herself to be imprisoned and actually glorifies in an establishment that does that to mages. Sure, she was successful as a prisoner, but I doubt Morrigan would consider her anything more than yet another chained mage.
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Post by dragontartare on Apr 12, 2017 0:34:52 GMT
Bearing in mind that I still haven't finished Andromeda...I don't hate Liam. He's a bit boring, but no more so than the rest of the Tempest's crew. The only one that I actually think is interesting is Vetra. Vivienne has an unpleasant personality at times, but she's a great character that I can really roleplay with, because depending on my Inquisitor's background, they either get along swimmingly, or they can't stand each other. She will never be everybody's best friend, but it's good to have some characters like that. (Contrast that with how I feel about Blackwall...my last Inquisitor kicked him out not so much because she wanted to, but because I got sick of him.) The only problem I have with Jacob is how his romance is treated. FemShep sounds like she's imagining him lying naked in her bed no matter what she says, so I barely even talked to him outside of mission-related dialogue my second time through the game. My first time with ME2, I actually intended for him to be the romance, but aside from the dialogue being awkward as described above, he seemed so uncomfortable with all the flirting that it just wasn't any fun at all. Even in a fictional romance, you want the other (fictional) person to also enjoy the flirting, not to feel as though the other person is being forced or pressured into a relationship just because Shepard is their commanding officer. On top of that, I think he only ends up agreeing to something casual, and then just ditches Shepard in ME3. These just aren't likable qualities, no matter what race you are
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Post by bakgrind on Apr 12, 2017 0:36:09 GMT
Well let's see... Jacob is that guy that I had to keep having to rez in a fight because his "Good Stuff" wasn't really all that good. Not to mention that trying to talk to him was a chore. Just felt like he didn't want to be bothered by anyone. I didn't care for Vivienne's character that much at all. And because there were more companions to choose from in DAI I simply didn't have to choose her.Having said that I didn't care for Morrigan's attitude all that much either, but it made for some fun party banter. Liam is ok. I've taken him questing as much as my other companions. So I honestly could not say if it's a BSN thing, but I think it's more about how that character is written and how many companions they have to compete against for my attention.
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Post by suikoden on Apr 12, 2017 0:36:45 GMT
They're all extremely poorly written. Liam especially. Someone needs to shoot that guy in the face. It doesn't help that they cloned Kanye West to make Jacob's face. imgur.com/XLcNW
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Post by isaidlunch on Apr 12, 2017 0:36:46 GMT
People love to hate Vivienne. She's fine.
The problem with Liam and Jacob is that they're written by a certain person who has trouble writing dialogue that makes sense, especially when it comes to black men. I feel like my IQ drops every time I talk to Liam, he is that awful.
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Teddie Sage
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Post by Teddie Sage on Apr 12, 2017 0:37:07 GMT
I'm okay with Jacob and Vivienne. I just think Liam is a lame character.
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