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Post by cloud9 on Apr 12, 2017 9:37:26 GMT
In all candor There's lots of PC and left wing politics in gamer circles. Jacob isn't a victim of circumstance. He's a viction of someone that shouldn't have have been writing a character in ME 2. And they put him on a tight ass suit and add a cod piece to sexualize him as a way of showing he's nothing but a fetish and not a person.
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Post by ymirr on Apr 12, 2017 9:44:52 GMT
Jacob was a bore, nothing interesting there. Vivienne in my playthrough seemed too petty, and I really like Liam and Anderson.
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Post by Psychevore on Apr 12, 2017 9:47:03 GMT
Who's talking shit about my Vivienne, goddamnit?!?!
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Ajna on Apr 12, 2017 9:47:36 GMT
I love Liam, I liked Jacob until it became clear that femshep wasn't going to stop all but rubbing herself all over him during simple conversation, after that I started to avoid him. Vivienne is the only one of those that I disliked immediately because a) All my Inquisitors are elves and She's a bitch. Another black bioware character that gets a lot of hate but I also like is Koth from SWTOR.
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Post by Psychevore on Apr 12, 2017 9:47:54 GMT
I think it's more likely that BSN is biased against poorly written, shallow characters. I think it's more that BSN, and the larger gaming world, using 'poor/bad writing' for everything they just don't like.
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Post by Sondergaard on Apr 12, 2017 9:51:20 GMT
I've noticed that black characters in Bioware games (Jacob, Liam, Vivienne) are usually among the most disliked on BSN (new and old). These characters are all very different so I'm curious why people hate all three of them. Now please don't get knee-jerk defensive, I'm not accusing anyone of being racist but I do want everyone to examine their own internal biases. A guy named Javik accuses everyone of being racist while denying he is doing exactly that and generates a (so far) four page thread in a matter of hours. Well played, sir. Well played.
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Post by KLGChaos on Apr 12, 2017 9:53:59 GMT
I actually really liked Jacob. He was my bro and I was sad I never got to spill drinks on the citadel with him.
Liam is fine... He's funny and I enjoyed his mission, but he's fairly fairly generic. But so is Cora.
I also liked Vivienne. Got along well with her.
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Post by zaeedisking on Apr 12, 2017 9:55:35 GMT
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Post by Psychevore on Apr 12, 2017 9:56:43 GMT
Jacob was a bore, nothing interesting there. Vivienne in my playthrough seemed too pretty, and I really like Liam and Anderson. There, fixed that for you.
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Post by Doominike on Apr 12, 2017 9:58:24 GMT
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Post by solmirra on Apr 12, 2017 9:59:53 GMT
I hated Jacob sinsce ME2 cause he was always out of place, too self-assured for nothing to back it. I couldn't empathise with him and I even couldn't romance him despite trying, he was too offputting for me. And since ME3 I just hate him more, it was a stupid mission, and his motives are pretty strange even if he's not romanced. But I loved Vivienne, she is my only viable option for Divine. And Liam is a bro. I liked his character since promo, he looked appealing, and I wasn't disappointed, he is nice, his loyalty mission was pure fun, it was easy to like him.
So - no, I don't think it's about their skin color at all, for me it always was about character's story, motives and personality. I guess for most of other people it's similar - even if they like Jacob/dislike Vivienne or Liam for that same reason.
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Post by Jacket on Apr 12, 2017 10:05:55 GMT
What are you talking about? Liam is an awesome guy with a British accent. As for Jacob...well, I've seen animals with more personality than him.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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PSN: MugiwaraBlair
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Post by Doominike on Apr 12, 2017 10:33:15 GMT
What. Liam doesn't sound british
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Apr 12, 2017 11:03:39 GMT
Stop insulting Jacob. I bet 2/3 of you are more boring than him!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 11:44:35 GMT
I've noticed that black characters in Bioware games (Jacob, Liam, Vivienne) are usually among the most disliked on BSN (new and old). These characters are all very different so I'm curious why people hate all three of them. Now please don't get knee-jerk defensive, I'm not accusing anyone of being racist but I do want everyone to examine their own internal biases. Jacob is boring. Vivi - well I never had an issue with her. Liam... no. No issue with him either. But god... Jacob was so boring that it hurt. He reminded me of that obligatory "black guy" character they put on Star Trek Enterprise. That character was so boring that I completely forget his name in this moment.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 11:51:35 GMT
I've noticed that black characters in Bioware games (Jacob, Liam, Vivienne) are usually among the most disliked on BSN (new and old). These characters are all very different so I'm curious why people hate all three of them. Now please don't get knee-jerk defensive, I'm not accusing anyone of being racist but I do want everyone to examine their own internal biases. I don't really have opinion on Jacob, but I was thinking that having two black human male LIs in a row was unfair without a single Asian since Sky. I like Vivienne, she is fiery and her opinions suck, but she is not presented as someone you just gotta "understand" and love regardless of her being mean and awful because they are male PC's LIs like a couple of white female companions, lol. And, oh, yeah, I think Liam as the game progresses becomes more and more likeable, and yeah, his va is not my favorite. Speaking of VAs, if I am prejudiced, that's against the overuse of accents from UK. Gods, what are they, on sale? All four male LI have British accents. Not a single without it.
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Pyrceval78
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Burninating the thatched roof cottages.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Pyrceval78 on Apr 12, 2017 11:52:25 GMT
I've noticed that black characters in Bioware games (Jacob, Liam, Vivienne) are usually among the most disliked on BSN (new and old). These characters are all very different so I'm curious why people hate all three of them. Now please don't get knee-jerk defensive, I'm not accusing anyone of being racist but I do want everyone to examine their own internal biases. Jacob is boring. Vivi - well I never had an issue with her. Liam... no. No issue with him either. But god... Jacob was so boring that it hurt. He reminded me of that obligatory "black guy" character they put on Star Trek Enterprise. That character was so boring that I completely forget his name in this moment.
Travis Mayweather...however to be fair, Archer was pretty boring as well, so was T'Pol. Hoshi however...needed more Hoshi.
On topic, not biased against any particular group personally. I hate everyone equally.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 12, 2017 11:56:28 GMT
Jacob is simply not interesting, trying to talk to him is like pulling teeth, he simply does not want to be bothered until he wants to deal with his obligatory Daddy Issue, because I have no issues with Vivienne really, because I disagree with the concept of Mage freedom, which is really peoples only real point of contention with her. As for Liam? He is absolutely a pain in the ass, His loyalty mission is basically a spotlight for why he is a damn moron. Him and PeeBee both are. imo, nothing but a liability to the mission, but ofc I can't do anything about it, because Bioware won't let us be mean, or even slightly aggressive.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 11:58:13 GMT
Jacob is boring. Vivi - well I never had an issue with her. Liam... no. No issue with him either. But god... Jacob was so boring that it hurt. He reminded me of that obligatory "black guy" character they put on Star Trek Enterprise. That character was so boring that I completely forget his name in this moment.
Travis Mayweather...however to be fair, Archer was pretty boring as well, so was T'Pol. Hoshi however...needed more Hoshi.
On topic, not biased against any particular group personally. I hate everyone equally.
Lol, that whole show needed.....help. Especially with the theme song. :cringe: I loved Archer and T'Pol. And the doctor! Phlox?
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Post by Pyrceval78 on Apr 12, 2017 12:00:15 GMT
Travis Mayweather...however to be fair, Archer was pretty boring as well, so was T'Pol. Hoshi however...needed more Hoshi.
On topic, not biased against any particular group personally. I hate everyone equally.
Lol, that whole show needed.....help. Especially with the theme song. :cringe: I loved Archer and T'Pol. And the doctor! Phlox? Are you saying you don't have faith...? Of the heart...???
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 12, 2017 12:06:32 GMT
That's what happens when you try to go PoC when your writers are all whiteys and heteros. They can't relate enough to write these characters with authenticity and you end up with Jacob and Liam who Luke tried to write as "authentic afro-american" or "autentic Jamaican" or whatever Liam's nationality would be and you just end up with stupid lines like "Gravity's one mean mother, huh!?" and "We're part of the initiative. Best part". It's like Luke is picturing this general "black-guy-talk" in his head and it just turns out awkward. Nothing against Vivienne though. She pretty much serves her purpose with minimal distractions. She happens to be black but it doesn't make her come across any different than any other character really and that's not unrealistic either. It's certainly better than trying to imitate "black-guy" behavior and failing miserably. I think people mistake Vivienne's one-note-ness for the fact that she actually acts that way because she has one single agenda by joining the Inquisition, which is to climb up to possibly become the next Divine.
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 12, 2017 12:11:37 GMT
Vivienne was a very well written character with great voice acting, but she had controversial opinions. The majority of BSN users have always been pro-mage so it's not difficult to see why she was a controversial character. I really liked her personally, even if I disagreed with her views she always made good arguments for her opinions. She also had some great banter. Jacob and Liam are both badly written, it's as simple as that. I do think Bioware could do with broadening their horizons a bit. In every Mass Effect and Dragon Age game the lead female LI has been white. In fact, we've had considerably more non-human LI's than non-white LI's, which is a bit questionable. It just comes down to character types, really. My favourite companion in Pillars of Eternity was Pallegina, and I was very happy to hear she'll be returning in the sequel. I'd certainly like to see Bioware take some notes on how they handled her and the Vailian Republics as a whole.
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Post by arreyanne on Apr 12, 2017 12:15:40 GMT
Liam I liked up until the point he started trying to be a politician, then it was "God you're stupid just go away". Never used him in a squad cept for loyalty stuff. the movie night thing was good.
Vivienne- pfft what a _itch reminded me of people who can't see any view point but their own. Is there a mission I can get her perma death?
Jacob- just wasn't interested in him at all from the beginning of ME2 and the Good Stuff
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Post by Ajna on Apr 12, 2017 12:17:42 GMT
What. Liam doesn't sound british I'm british and he sounds pretty british to me. London in fact..like his VA.
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Post by mrtijger on Apr 12, 2017 12:18:29 GMT
That makes zero sense, how can it be bad writing when Anderson hardly has any lines to be written? The bad writing is Liam and Jacob. As for Anderson, he's in all three games, and 8 DLC's. He's got plenty of "lines". Not to mention the books. And in all 3 games your interaction with him is very limited, Citadel probably adds more on its own that all 3 games combined.
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