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Post by Doominike on Apr 12, 2017 18:32:57 GMT
"I don't like character x as a person, therefore they are terribly written." The world according to BSN. Kinda agree with this. There are boring as hell people irl, so how is a boring character badly written and not just a well written boring person ?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 18:37:18 GMT
I used to think Jacob was a lame character. Then I met Liam who loses his shit about once a scene. You know, I am not one to call out racists, sexist, whatever-ist shit but Liam really does make me wonder because that dude seems to need some medication or ... something. I mean he's a hot mess (and not in a hot kind of way) in most of the scenes you find him in. I have said and I will continue to say that for a crisis response specialist he seems a lot more like the guy you would be responding to. My Ryder resists kicking him off the ship several times.
Also, the truck? or car? or whatever vehicle it was? That just made me think he and his family were low IQ morons. I just cannot put a cute, cool or positive spin on that. It seems so... idiotic.
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snook
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Post by snook on Apr 12, 2017 19:45:13 GMT
Anderson is a god to Mass Effect fans. Look at this picture. Witness just how fucking badass it is. Liam and Jacob are like the buzzing of flies to him. Hell yeah
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Post by valethar on Apr 12, 2017 20:21:50 GMT
Anderson is a god to Mass Effect fans. Look at this picture. Witness just how fucking badass it is. Liam and Jacob are like the buzzing of flies to him. Pretty much this. He's a hardcore badass. If I could have taken him along in the squad, I would have. To me, Jacob was just poorly done, and as a result, unless I had to have him for something specific, he stayed home. Liam is more fun to have around, he's sort of like your kid brother tagging along, causing trouble and pestering you. Vivienne was another one that pretty much stayed home, unless I needed her for a given quest. As others have mentioned, her views on magic, etc.. just didn't mesh well with the way I played, and I found it to be annoying after a while, so I parked her. I also rarely ever took Thane, Zaeed, Vega, Ashely, Kaiden, Alistair, Zevran, and several others along. I suppose that makes me xenophobic, racist and sexist.
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Stealing Your Bike ;)
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Post by deebo305 on Apr 12, 2017 20:21:57 GMT
Well as defender of 2/3 of these characters here's my 2 cents. Jacob was doomed after he was reintroduced in ME3, personally I thought he seemed like he was forcing most of his lines and seem overtly chipper compared to the by the books guy I met in ME2
As for Vivienne, she pro-circle and pro-chantry this people view her with hate because every about the Chantry and Circle is "evil" apparently. I personally agree with her views when it comes to the Circle, I certainly don't think it she be utterly destroyed like most people, change certainly but not destroyed
Now for Liam, alot the hate from I've seen stems from his Nomad convos with Vetra. I personally never heard them before looking them up. Personally I think he's funny and upfront when he needs to be. Some people see this as rude but I don't, he does always apologize when he goes to far
Now does this make BSN bias against black characters....Nope, Bias against Human characters...MOST DEFINITELY
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brownfinger
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Post by brownfinger on Apr 12, 2017 21:17:13 GMT
I know it's difficult to believe in 2017, but there are some people who are truly capable of judging others based on merit. I like Liam. He's a bundle of impulses, but it's because he cares. I can relate. There are plenty of flawed Mass Effect characters. I appreciated that they used the Nomad conversations to show how personalities could clash, but they probably crossed a line with Liam and Vetra. They mostly fought, I would have preferred a little more balance and growth.
Jacob really wasn't particularly interesting, Anderson was a goddamn hero.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 23:02:23 GMT
Go back to Tumblr, OP.
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Post by doch on Apr 12, 2017 23:06:44 GMT
"I don't like character x as a person, therefore they are terribly written." The world according to BSN. Kinda agree with this. There are boring as hell people irl, so how is a boring character badly written and not just a well written boring person ? Why have them in the game if they're "boring"? What value or form of asset do they add? The goal of a writer, I would think would be to add value and asset - "good", "bad" or maybe "neutral" but not "boring".
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Post by Doominike on Apr 12, 2017 23:11:33 GMT
Obv it'd be better if all the squadmates were interesting, I was just (somewhat jokingly) questioning if simply being boring marks a char as badly written.
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Post by egeslean05 on Apr 12, 2017 23:20:17 GMT
Obv it'd be better if all the squadmates were interesting, I was just (somewhat jokingly) questioning if simply being boring marks a char as badly written. I don't think it does. In a number of books I've read, there have been badly written character who are boring, but there are also some very well done characters who are interesting, have a good personality, and are well fleshed out, and yet, they are boring as hell. The difference is one is designed to be boring (in comparison to the other characters), while the other ends up being boring because of my writing, characterization, little to no depth, etc.
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Post by timebean on Apr 13, 2017 0:17:52 GMT
Obv it'd be better if all the squadmates were interesting, I was just (somewhat jokingly) questioning if simply being boring marks a char as badly written. I don't think it does. In a number of books I've read, there have been badly written character who are boring, but there are also some very well done characters who are interesting, have a good personality, and are well fleshed out, and yet, they are boring as hell. The difference is one is designed to be boring (in comparison to the other characters), while the other ends up being boring because of my writing, characterization, little to no depth, etc. I think I see where you are coming from. Example - Holden Caulfield (Catcher in the Rye). Great character, well-written. Boring as hell (by design, both boring and bored with world). Would chuck him outta an airlock if he tried to set one boring-ass angst-ridden foot on my ship.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 13, 2017 0:34:51 GMT
Love how no one brought up Traynor in 8 pages. One of my favorite characters ever, I am absolutely jealous as a hetero man. I wanted to get Traynor so bad lol
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 0:48:23 GMT
Love how no one brought up Traynor in 8 pages. One of my favorite characters ever, I am absolutely jealous as a hetero man. I wanted to get Traynor so bad lol Traynor's not black. She's Anglo-Indian I believe.
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Post by Nayawk on Apr 13, 2017 0:50:08 GMT
I always thought Traynor was suppose to be of South Asian heritage ? So not 'Black' in the sense the OP is talking about?
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Post by sdzald on Apr 13, 2017 0:55:57 GMT
I've noticed that black characters in Bioware games (Jacob, Liam, Vivienne) are usually among the most disliked on BSN (new and old). These characters are all very different so I'm curious why people hate all three of them. Now please don't get knee-jerk defensive, I'm not accusing anyone of being racist but I do want everyone to examine their own internal biases. I never hated Jacob in the original series and one of my most favorite characters is Captain Anderson, I really wish I could of had him in my crew.. I even liked Liam in MEA up until his Loyalty mission. I am not sure where you are getting the idea that they were hated.
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Post by Indomito on Apr 13, 2017 1:05:05 GMT
It´s the writing, not the skin.
Vivianne >> +++ I don´t always agree with her, but she had personality.
Liam >> ++- He is very, teen/childish sometimes, i was expecting more of him.
Jacob >> +-- He started ok, and later he became just bored.
Anderson was all good.
Probably the racist people is not going to post in here... And probably this is just a troll thread...
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Post by Walter Black on Apr 13, 2017 2:41:54 GMT
I liked Jacob in Mass Effect 2, it nice to have a squadmate who confident and stable for a change. Jacob in ME3 on the other hand... For all the talk of "Daddy Issues" in Jacob's Loyalty Mission however, I'm surprised how no one brings up that Ronald Taylor pretty much being one huge Heart of Darkness shout out. Being marooned on a deserted jungle planet where pragmatism devolves into brutality and delusions of godhood, with imprisonment or death being the only escape. Hell, you could also match Ronald's fall thematically with the Reapers, with the toxic food subbing for indoctrination.
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Post by steppinrazor on Apr 13, 2017 12:10:50 GMT
Every character I make EVER is black, because well... I am too, and it's easier for me to immerse and relate. I've actually never played a white character, unless forced to. Some games, like Dragon Age Origins, are REALLY bad at this though, almost impossible to make a decent looking black person. Here are some recent examples, My Ryder, who I've posted before, His sister, My most recent Shepard, and my favorite ever, who romance Kaidan (Renagon with a sweet side) And also, my Mage Inquisitor, also gayyyyy as hell lol, All black and beautiful! ^__^ >black and beautiful >all have Caucasian facial features They're all really based on my own looks. I do also happen to be mixed. I am black though, always have identified as black, and couldn't pass for caucasian at ALL lol, been called every black racial slur in the book. And that's not to say darker skinned black people than myself aren't beautiful, because they certainly are. I just happen to make characters that look like ME. Who is black.. But enough trying to validate my blackness to you, since I have "caucasian" features...... Black people have all TYPES of looks dude, pretty diverse bunch.... I'd post my own pic, but..
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Post by jackdaniel on Apr 13, 2017 13:14:40 GMT
Jacob got balls of steel. How many people gets to dump commander Shepard for someone else and live to talk about it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 13:16:36 GMT
OP is the greatest troll to ever grace the BSN. Seriously the first post is a work of art. LOL glad someone besides me finally noticed. It truly was the work of a great craftsman. He accurately identified his prey and set his bait perfectly. I noticed it too, it's fairly conspicuous. I just posted in it because I felt like it. I wasn't embarrassed like another thread recently. There was one thread that was really juvenile about the Asari the other day, and I was a little embarrassed that I posted in it before fully reading it, lol.
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Post by formerfiend on Apr 13, 2017 14:05:22 GMT
I'm chalking this up to unfortunate coincidence.
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Post by luke on Apr 13, 2017 14:59:01 GMT
Never understood the dislike for Jacob, and I don't understand the dislike for Liam now.
I actually really like Liam, he's characterised well. At worst, his characterisation is hamfisted at times, but not as bad as PeeBee's. Liam is a chill but passionate guy, and it's his passion that results in him making rash decisions or losing his temper. He isn't just a hothead, he just cares a lot.
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Post by jackdaniel on Apr 13, 2017 15:09:00 GMT
Never understood the dislike for Jacob, and I don't understand the dislike for Liam now. I actually really like Liam, he's characterised well. At worst, his characterisation is hamfisted at times, but not as bad as PeeBee's. Liam is a chill but passionate guy, and it's his passion that results in him making rash decisions or losing his temper. He isn't just a hothead, he just cares a lot. really? I got the impression that he is anything but chill. The character establishing moment for him was him emptying a clip into a dead Kett. that's a bad way of establishing someone's chillness
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Post by simsimillia on Apr 13, 2017 15:19:51 GMT
Jacob is just bland and boring, which is even worse than if I hated him.
I don't think Liam is really that much disliked, I like him.
Vivienne is awesome. I don't think any of my Inquisitors ever liked her, but I as a player love her. She reminds me a lot of Emma Frost.
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 13, 2017 15:21:07 GMT
LOL glad someone besides me finally noticed. It truly was the work of a great craftsman. He accurately identified his prey and set his bait perfectly. I noticed it too, it's fairly conspicuous. I just posted in it because I felt like it. I wasn't embarrassed like another thread recently. There was one thread that was really juvenile about the Asari the other day, and I was a little embarrassed that I posted in it before fully reading it, lol. I must have missed that one. This one is great fun though, keeping my fingers crossed it hits 10 pages. OP was brilliant. :amirite:
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