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Post by ShadowAngel on Apr 12, 2017 23:07:37 GMT
Gotta love how nostalgic rose colored glasses make things in the past seem flawless... Wrong. We thought it was superb writing back then too. This only sharpens with clarity the contrast. Andromeda is mediocre at best - riddled with clichés and a forgettable story, and characters. It's a shell, and hollow from start to finish. My opinion, anyway. The OT was nothing but a huge contradiction of itself, and quite honestly, the story never was a reason I loved it as even it's own story had issues. The ME2 plot sucked, we all know the ME3 ending, yata yata yata, those characters were why I enjoyed the series mixed with me being ok with accepting a mediocre story to it. Regardless I don't think it an issue if people reference the OT and talk about Andromedas issues as one would expect a game in 2017 to not have the same issues as one from 2007. Previous ME games having flaws doesn't discount the fact that Andromeda didn't learn from previous issues. If a mass effect game In 2027 has bad animations and someone says "but ME1 had it too" I'll lose my mind, you'd expect the 2027 game to fix that given it has better tech and such but ya know. Same principle applies here.
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Post by smilesja on Apr 12, 2017 23:08:21 GMT
ME1 had a few moments, but nothing big, same as MEA What a load of tripe. The Alliance Winged Hussaring the Geth and Sovereign is the greatest moment in the franchise. I would say the Suicide Mission was the best moment in the MET.
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Post by jli84 on Apr 12, 2017 23:09:26 GMT
Gotta love how nostalgic rose colored glasses make things in the past seem flawless... Also, comparing one game to three is kinda lopsided. Is there some kind of handbook that says; "If someone likes older games better than subsequent games, respond with rose colored glasses comment." But there is some truth to it. It's the same way with movies. Take some hardcore Star Wars fans that thinks of the first three movies as the best films ever made. They've watched these movies a hundred times over and know pretty much every line by heart. Would they feel the same about these movies if they watched them for the first time today? Maybe some of them, but for most I think that would not be the case. I've done a recent playthrough of the ME trilogy and my opinion of ME1 is definitely higher than it was first time around. Sure it was a great game way back when, but over the years it has transcended into something more. If they continue Ryders story over the next couple of games I can see the same happening for MEA (at least for me, but then I like the game a lot already and just finished my second run).
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Post by fraggle on Apr 12, 2017 23:16:30 GMT
Is there some kind of handbook that says; "If someone likes older games better than subsequent games, respond with rose colored glasses comment." I understand you're trying to be sarcastic and facetious, but it's very true that things in the past are often remembered much differently than they actually were. We remember them like they were perfect and flawless when in fact, they were far from it. It doesn't just apply to games either. Memories of movies, relationships, experiences, etc are altered based on our current perception of them, not our initial experience. Many people still play the trilogy including ME1 as of now, so it's not "looking back with rose-tinted glasses" for some. And I'm sure people know ME1 isn't flawless, none of the games are, but can people just say they're not satisfied enough with MEA? I don't hate the game, but it lacks a lot for me and I'd take ME1 over it any day.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 12, 2017 23:17:17 GMT
Is there some kind of handbook that says; "If someone likes older games better than subsequent games, respond with rose colored glasses comment." I understand you're trying to be sarcastic and facetious, but it's very true that things in the past are often remembered much differently than they actually were. We remember them like they were perfect and flawless when in fact, they were far from it. It doesn't just apply to games either. Memories of movies, relationships, experiences, etc are altered based on our current perception of them, not our initial experience. I love the ME trilogy, but it's unfair to compare ME:A to those three games because those three games and the characters within hold such a special place in many of our hearts. Characters like Garrus and Tali weren't initially "love at first sight" for many. It took time for them to grow. Garrus became Archangel and singlehandedly fought the gangs of Omega. Tali made big contributions to her people through her pilgrimage. We were all a part of their growth through three games and DLC. To compare ME:A to all that is setting up ME:A to lose. So yeah, many people do remember the trilogy through rose tinted glasses. This conclusion was not reached by reading any "handbook", but through objective observation and common sense. That's not even true. IIRC ME2 was supposed to have a new crew aside from those who got plot armor, and fans wanted Garrus and Tali in the second game as squadmates and potential LIs. Liara got her own DLC because people wanted more of her after ME1. Also, people have listed specific moments from the original series that they thought were memorable, or said why they think they were better. So saying oh it's rose colored glasses without offering any reason as to why what they're saying is incorrect doesn't do much. I made a post in another thread yesterday about why the way ME1 introduced you to the universe was better than ME:A. One of which was the characters. Ashely comes running out last person defending the planet, Garrus was investigating Saren, Liara was an expert you had to retrieve, Tali had information you needed and they made her valuable to you from the start. All weaved into the story and given reason why they're with you or needed. Fast forward to ME:A. You're about touch vault controls, Peebee just shows up from nowhere, nobody saw her. You're about to board the Tempest, Vetra is just there. You're in some random base or the location of the Eos outpost, Drack just shows up in the middle of the desert, from nowhere. Nothing in the actual story of the game that lead you to any of these characters. This is an apples to apples comparison of just ME1 to ME:A, not the entire trilogy to ME:A. People are able to rationally do this type of stuff without looking having to have on rose colored glasses.
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Post by fchopin on Apr 12, 2017 23:17:54 GMT
Can't compare a trilogy to a new game. ME1 had a few moments, but nothing big, same as MEA. It's the later ME games that took off. Is this a joke? ME1 had so many special moments that I still get excited every time I replay the game.
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Post by vonuber on Apr 12, 2017 23:19:18 GMT
I would say the Suicide Mission was the best moment in the MET. Disagree, I would say Lair of the Shadow Broker is peak Mass Effect.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 23:20:46 GMT
ME1 had a few moments, but nothing big, same as MEA What a load of tripe. The Alliance Winged Hussaring the Geth and Sovereign is the greatest moment in the franchise. The only tripe is someone thinking everyone has to like what they like. Nothing beats the Suicide Mission for me and nothing ever will. fchopin joke? No I simply didn't like ME1 the way you do.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 12, 2017 23:21:56 GMT
What a load of tripe. The Alliance Winged Hussaring the Geth and Sovereign is the greatest moment in the franchise. I would say the Suicide Mission was the best moment in the MET. I've always though the Suicide Mission was overrated. Maybe because I didn't have anyone die the first time I did it. There was really no story laid out, and not really that much meaningful dialogue. Just a bunch of fighting and cutscenes.
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Post by timebean on Apr 12, 2017 23:24:41 GMT
"Thank you sir" Anderson!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOO!!!!! That hits me right in the gut every time!! Also - best moment for me in the entire ME series was meeting Legion. I was so shocked when he showed up and was like "What the hell...a GETH?". And then when he came back in ME3, I was literally jumping up and down in my seat with joy. Then they killed him. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love/hate these games...
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 12, 2017 23:25:32 GMT
I would say the Suicide Mission was the best moment in the MET. I've always though the Suicide Mission was overrated. Maybe because I didn't have anyone die the first time I did it. There was really no story laid out, and not really that much meaningful dialogue. Just a bunch of fighting and cutscenes. Is it still a suicide mission if my intention going in is to kill off everyone but Shep, Tali, and Garrus? At what point does it goes from suicide to homicide? I suppose Mordin and Grunt I would keep around, maybe Jack. The rest though? Meh, collector chow.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 23:25:56 GMT
What a load of tripe. The Alliance Winged Hussaring the Geth and Sovereign is the greatest moment in the franchise. I would say the Suicide Mission was the best moment in the MET. Yep! I agree. The music especially! And the ending with all the Reapers? Shivers!
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Post by cypherj on Apr 12, 2017 23:28:10 GMT
I've always though the Suicide Mission was overrated. Maybe because I didn't have anyone die the first time I did it. There was really no story laid out, and not really that much meaningful dialogue. Just a bunch of fighting and cutscenes. Is it still a suicide mission if my intention going in is to kill off everyone but Shep, Tali, and Garrus? At what point does it goes from suicide to homicide? I suppose Mordin and Grunt I would keep around, maybe Jack. The rest though? Meh, collector chow. Well that too, you almost have to play the game with the intent of making the Suicide Mission turn out a certain way. IE, trying to kill people lol.
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Post by cheeseandonion on Apr 12, 2017 23:29:07 GMT
The only tripe is something thinking everyone has to like what they like. Nothing beats the Suicide Mission for me and nothing ever will. fchopin joke? No I simply didn't like ME1 the way you do. The tripe is the comment that there were no big moments in ME1. The other thing was just my preference.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Apr 12, 2017 23:29:49 GMT
Gotta love how nostalgic rose tinted glasses make things in the past seem flawless... Also, comparing one game to three is kinda lopsided and unfair. I see what you are saying and to a degree I agree with you but at the same time the trilogy was just an incredibly powerful experience. Even if you were to use only ME 1 it felt more powerful than Andromeda did though there are alot of things Andromeda definitely does better as well but most of those are gameplay related. So far the trilogy is a more powerful experience. That said I do agree that as games age and newer ones comes out there is a cycle that repeats itself with gamers where all of a sudden the older game becomes a flawless masterpiece and the newer game can't get anything right so I get your frustration. For example I remember when DAI came out DA 2 had been showered with praise that it never got before. I will also say this while it may not be the same as the trilogy for some of us Andromeda is still Mass Effect and I still get plenty of enjoyment out of it and I don't believe for one second it deserves half the flack it has gotten it is still a good game.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 23:30:10 GMT
The only tripe is something thinking everyone has to like what they like. Nothing beats the Suicide Mission for me and nothing ever will. fchopin joke? No I simply didn't like ME1 the way you do. The tripe is the comment that there were no big moments in ME1. The other thing was just my preference. And I mentioned 2 in another post pages back. I liked Vigil and the ending.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Apr 12, 2017 23:33:52 GMT
I would say the Suicide Mission was the best moment in the MET. Disagree, I would say Lair of the Shadow Broker is peak Mass Effect. That right there tells you something about ME 2 seeing that both of those were a part of ME 2.
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 12, 2017 23:34:18 GMT
Is it still a suicide mission if my intention going in is to kill off everyone but Shep, Tali, and Garrus? At what point does it goes from suicide to homicide? I suppose Mordin and Grunt I would keep around, maybe Jack. The rest though? Meh, collector chow. Well that too, you almost have to play the game with the intent of making the Suicide Mission turn out a certain way. IE, trying to kill people lol. Sadly no one died in my first go either. I just played the game and surprise everyone lives. Not much of a suicide mission. I certainly wouldn't have cried any tears for any of them (except Garrus and Tali) if they had died but yeah you really would have to go out of your way to intentionally make sure someone dies rather than the other way around.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 12, 2017 23:34:36 GMT
What a load of tripe. The Alliance Winged Hussaring the Geth and Sovereign is the greatest moment in the franchise. I would say the Suicide Mission was the best moment in the MET. It leaves a really good first impression, but it doesn't hold up as well to revisits. The most exciting part of that mission is the initial run through the debris field and seeing your upgrades to the Normandy at work. After that, there's a point where it starts to feel too easy. The enemies are the same basic baddies you fight through every Collector mission, with the exception of the praetorian, which is blatantly absent from the entire thing, which was a bit of a letdown, and then it builds up to the human reaper, which I try to overlook but can't entirely. What really drives it forward is the music, which is some of the best in the entire trilogy. For me, the point of ME2 that really holds up the best for me is actually LotSB. Whenever I play ME2, it's the part of the game I always look forward to the most. I just love it so much that I don't care how lame Vasir really is.
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Post by midasear on Apr 12, 2017 23:36:16 GMT
Watched first twenty seconds of video posted by OP. Could not proceed. Goosebumps too severe from the music alone. That IS the song from the introduction...... *shudders with awe* I actually think the biggest area where MEA suffers when compared to ME1 is the music. The first two ME games made exceptionally skillful use of music to set an appropriate mood. MEA...did not. The music is not _bad_ exactly, but it is always subdued, generic AAA video game tracks. I remember the first time I booted up Mass Effect and heard the opening theme while listening to Udiana and Anderson talk about Shepard while Shepard looked at Earth through the port window. I knew right then the game was special.
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Post by Civ on Apr 12, 2017 23:37:41 GMT
I'll never forget the first contact of Sovereign
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Apr 12, 2017 23:40:41 GMT
Watched first twenty seconds of video posted by OP. Could not proceed. Goosebumps too severe from the music alone. That IS the song from the introduction...... *shudders with awe* I actually think the biggest area where MEA suffers when compared to ME1 is the music. The first two ME games made exceptionally skillful use of music to set an appropriate mood. MEA...did not. The music is not _bad_ exactly, but it is always subdued, generic AAA video game tracks. I remember the first time I booted up Mass Effect and heard the opening theme while listening to Udiana and Anderson talk about Shepard while Shepard looked at Earth through the port window. I knew right then the game was special. The sound track really is a big deal. In the trilogy it really set the tone and mood for whatever situation we found ourselves in. I will admit it there are times over the years where just hearing some soundtracks from the trilogy was enough for me to go back and do another trilogy playthrough.
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 12, 2017 23:42:51 GMT
At least MEA didn't have any of these awful throwback to older games moments. At least none that were so painfully obvious in the moment.
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Post by ProbeAway on Apr 12, 2017 23:45:12 GMT
When people go into a game like MEA hoping for 'feelz' on the scale they got in the original games, they're bound to be disappointed. Generally speaking, when we played ME1 we were younger, more wide eyed, less jaded, and everything was new. There was nothing to really compare it to (except perhaps Kotor, but that was in a pre-established universe). For me, ME2 is actually that game because it was my introduction to The MEU. That was the game with the moments. ME1 was good, but the stuff people are describing from that game in this thread didn't have anywhere near the impact for me (except perhaps the Sovereign conversation, which was ruined when the Reapers lost their mystery late in ME3) because it wasn't my original Mass Effect experience. It's a bit like the music you listened to 10 years+ ago. If I ever hear Mayonaise or Tonight, Tonight by the Pumpkins I basically have to stop what I'm doing and listen because they are songs that give me those amazing feelings. I 'discovered' them at the right time and the right age. They were good songs in their own right (just like those ME moments) but if I step back and try to be a bit more objective I can concede there are recent songs that could rationally be deemed 'better'. Yet personally I just can't imagine any new song ever having the same impact on me. I'm not far through MEA (only at Kadara so please no spoilers) but I can already think of a handful of big moments that made an impact: - 'This is Habitat 7' - The shuttle crash - First contact with the Kett - Alec sacrificing himself - Arriving at the empty Nexus - Escaping the vault on Eos - Uncovering the exaltation process - Finding the traumatised Angaran torturing a Kett captive - Finding out Jien was murdered by a mysterious benefactor (just did this last night!) You get the picture. MEA is chock full of these moments. The question is whether or not you will let yourself enjoy them for what they are, as opposed to what they aren't. What I will readily concede is that the writing in this game is far less consistent than in the OT. Some lines of dialogue are great but others are terribad. Some are completely out of place. These haven't significantly affected key moments in the game for me, although they have unfortunately impacted my perception of certain characters. Liam is all over the show early on, while Gil's introductory conversation was just awful.
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Post by timebean on Apr 12, 2017 23:47:03 GMT
In regards to rose-colored glasses, etc.
I can admit that when I played ME1, I was underwhelmed by the characters in my first go through. I only played the game because I loved DAO and a friend of mine kept hassling me to play ME1 as well. I didn't like shooters at the time, so I resisted. But I loved DAO's characters so much, that I finally caved and purchased ME1 to see how it compared.
I will admit that on my first playthrough, ME1's characters did not connect with me the same way (although I did like Wrex).
HOWEVER, ME1's world-building was phe-freaking-nomenal! Miles above DAO. Leaps and bounds. All the species were interesting, the crap going down on Noveria was interesting, the politics were interesting, the set-up of the bigger threat was interesting, the spectre versus council stuff was interesting, and the protagonist was interesting. I was engaged as hell wit the world.
Because of that amazing world-building in ME1, I played ME2. And it was ME2 and ME3 made me truly love the characters. Now I love all three games equally, and replay them all over and over, and squeezze out every drop of interaction I can with everyone in the game.
So far, MEA's world building sucks in comparison to ME1. I can live with underwhelming characters, because they may improve with time with expansions and the next game. Just like they did with ME2 and ME3. But the world building is not on par with ME1. Not even close.
That is as fair a comparison as I can make. And as per usual, it is just my own dork-ass opinion.
Edited to add: as a side note, the MET games made me open up to shooters (which I love now) by bridging the gap between RPG and shooters. The MEA game, in contrast, has made me dislike open-world games by bridging the gap between open-world and boring-as-shit.
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