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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 13, 2017 20:27:31 GMT
The first ME1 was to establish the world, characters, the villains and who your character was, just like ME:A is doing. (Lets face it no-one played ME1 for its gameplay or graphics but for the story). And that's the difference, the story, ME1's was well written and the world was made to fit the story. In ME-A it appears to me, that the Open World was developed and then the developers thought "oh I guess we have to put something in it now" and filled it with a minimal storyline and a myriad of inconsequential side-quests and npcs. ME1 had lots of memorable moments: the Thorian, Liara/Matriarch Benezia, ranchi queen, Wrex confrontation, Sovereign conversation and Ashley/Kaidan decision to name a few. Even the minor NPC's were memorable e.g. Fisk, Dr Michel, Rana Thanoptis, Captain Kirrahe. In ME1 you knew your squadmates strengths and weaknesses more intimately as you dressed them in their armour, picked their weapons and decided on the peripherals they carried. Yes ME1 was an excellent platform for the establishment of a series. Benezia is an odd one to mention, because it's generally regarded as one of the more unintentionally hilarious bits in the game due to how horribly corny the whole scene is. Do people really like the Thorian? The buildup was much better than what we ended up getting. Flinging the clones off of the levels with biotics was amusing, but the whole fully armed and fully clothed asari commandos popping out of a plant was really out of left field.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 20:44:59 GMT
Well, that's the rub. People had some very specific expectations, and BioWare was damned if they do and damned if they don't. In fact, I'd suggest that a fair amount of the backlash is directly due to various expectations being unmet. That's why we see so many comparisons of MEA with the trilogy. The Ai needed a base of some sort, and Ryder needs a ship. A story needs conflict and combat needs a variety of enemy types. One of the complaints I've seen about combat is that there aren't enough enemy types. With the golden worlds not panning out and the arks missing, survival was at stake, which tends to drive revolts and power plays - thus the Nexus Uprising. I suppose that could have happened once Ryder arrived, but I don't know that that would have made for a better story. Also, building in an exiles versus Nexus conflict provides more role-playing opportunities for Ryder. And the natives already have an opinion of the newcomers, based on their experiences with the exiles. ME1 introduced us to the various species primarily via walking (or stationary in the case of Avina) codex entries. The Citadel races were already well-established; humans were relative newcomers, but still already integrated. MEA gives us a much more in-depth process of getting to know the angara and earning their trust. Unlike the geth, we start out with precious little knowledge of the kett, and learning about them is a huge part of the journey. I view it as a reboot of sorts. It has (most of) TMW races, combat mechanics derived directly from MET, etc. Some of TMW species are a bit... different. Everyone is away from their home planet and culture, the individuals who signed up for the Ai are somewhat unique, and instead of a lot of inter-species conflict between the milkies, it's the milkies versus Heleus antagonists. It will be interesting to see how the various milkies shape their cultures over time. Agreed. I didn't have any expectations coming in, just that it would be a new world, because that's what the developers said. To be clear: I wasn't referencing any specific individual. I was around the old official BSN during a lot of lead-up to MEA, and saw quite a few people express various forms of expectations and/or desires for the game. BTW - it isn't just a new world, but a new cluster in a new galaxy. I think it would be more accurate to say that SAM figures out the remnant tech; the only real reason Ryder can deal with it is because SAM. If you're talking about Peebee here, I don't think she'd quite qualify as an expert, just someone who is passionately intellectually curious and working toward figuring it out and using it. Yes, there are a lot of parallels, but also some differences. For one thing, MET has a heavy focus on organic versus synthetic, and what we've seen thus far in MEA involves highly advanced synthetics working in concert with organics. Prior to the announcement of Andromeda, there was a great deal of discussion about where the next game would take place - and some people flatly denied the franchise would move to a different galaxy. Then Andromeda was announced, and discussion moved to denying that anything outside TMW could ever be called Mass Effect, and the relays are the most iconic part of the franchise, and it's lore-breaking, and the premise can't possibly work, etc. There was also a lot of discussion about various species; which milkies would go along and which would be left behind, etc. But there are a lot of places where comparisons are being made - combat mechanics, Ryder versus Shepard, linear missions versus large maps to explore, to name but a few.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 20:52:36 GMT
The first ME1 was to establish the world, characters, the villains and who your character was, just like ME:A is doing. (Lets face it no-one played ME1 for its gameplay or graphics but for the story). And that's the difference, the story, ME1's was well written and the world was made to fit the story. In ME-A it appears to me, that the Open World was developed and then the developers thought "oh I guess we have to put something in it now" and filled it with a minimal storyline and a myriad of inconsequential side-quests and npcs. There are quite a few storylines and a lot of world-building in some of those relatively minor quests. I think they really wanted to make the world feel alive, and clearly devoted quite a lot of effort and resource to that end. There are certainly some ways it could have been done better, but hopefully they'll improve over time.
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Post by smilesja on Apr 13, 2017 21:51:01 GMT
And that's the difference, the story, ME1's was well written and the world was made to fit the story. In ME-A it appears to me, that the Open World was developed and then the developers thought "oh I guess we have to put something in it now" and filled it with a minimal storyline and a myriad of inconsequential side-quests and npcs. ME1 had lots of memorable moments: the Thorian, Liara/Matriarch Benezia, ranchi queen, Wrex confrontation, Sovereign conversation and Ashley/Kaidan decision to name a few. Even the minor NPC's were memorable e.g. Fisk, Dr Michel, Rana Thanoptis, Captain Kirrahe. In ME1 you knew your squadmates strengths and weaknesses more intimately as you dressed them in their armour, picked their weapons and decided on the peripherals they carried. Yes ME1 was an excellent platform for the establishment of a series. Benezia is an odd one to mention, because it's generally regarded as one of the more unintentionally hilarious bits in the game due to how horribly corny the whole scene is. Do people really like the Thorian? The buildup was much better than what we ended up getting. Flinging the clones off of the levels with biotics was amusing, but the whole fully armed and fully clothed asari commandos popping out of a plant was really out of left field. Especially with Benezia's ummmmm chest.
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on Apr 13, 2017 21:57:14 GMT
There is only one reason - main story is bad. Just bad.
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Post by zeratul12 on Apr 13, 2017 22:04:11 GMT
No game is ever perfect you must be willing to overlook said flaws to enjoy a game. The problem is OT hyper-fanboys refuse anything that isn't gold plated perfection from the developers, thats just not realistic. and just to prove a point ME OT Flaws: - ME1 has terrible but serviceable gameplay and awkward animation at times with some scenes being very stilted - Sheperd looks very creepy whenever he/she smiles - ME 1 several crew members didn't become interesting until much later in the series - ME 2 dragged on the recruitment process with 2 of them being DLC only - ME 3 had an ending that divided the community - ME 3 also had a DLC locked character who played a very important role ME A flaws: - Awkward animation on human and asari characters - New galaxy and there are only 3 new races so far (Jardaan, Angrara and Kett) - Some of the Tempest crew come off as a bit dull I know there are flaws with both the OT and A but I am willing to look them over. In your evaluation you clearly missing the point that not all flaws are equal, which makes your comparison worthless. For example interesting characters are much-much more important for BW game than, lets say animation. So in that context, dull tempest crew still outweighs literally all flaws you mentioned for OT. Also, as I and many other said previously, trying to point out OT flaws does not make MEA a better game, so you really should stop trying to belittle OT. As for the gold plated perfection being unrealistic - somehow it was prior to Andromeda, at least in a sense that all BW games carried what made them strong, thus gold plated perfection by BW-games standard (which are characters and dialogues). Andromeda does not have it, so the question rises - what makes it so special that it should get a slack and special treatment? And before you mention a new studio (another common excuse from apologists) - thats not a consumers concern of who makes what and what experience they have. What matters is a quality of end product, especially when that product is one of a long series of products that always had very high standards of certain aspects in them. Ok I am done here as you have ignored the point I was trying to make.
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 13, 2017 22:46:29 GMT
Benezia is an odd one to mention, because it's generally regarded as one of the more unintentionally hilarious bits in the game due to how horribly corny the whole scene is. Do people really like the Thorian? The buildup was much better than what we ended up getting. Flinging the clones off of the levels with biotics was amusing, but the whole fully armed and fully clothed asari commandos popping out of a plant was really out of left field. Especially with Benezia's ummmmm chest. ME definitely needs more Matriarch assets.
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Post by zeratul12 on Apr 13, 2017 22:51:50 GMT
Especially with Benezia's ummmmm chest. ME definitely needs more Matriarch assets. How on earth does does she keep her chest popping out of that thing? Must be Biotics
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 13, 2017 22:55:38 GMT
Maybe it's the scales.
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Post by Exile Isan on Apr 13, 2017 22:56:09 GMT
Benezia is an odd one to mention, because it's generally regarded as one of the more unintentionally hilarious bits in the game due to how horribly corny the whole scene is. Do people really like the Thorian? The buildup was much better than what we ended up getting. Flinging the clones off of the levels with biotics was amusing, but the whole fully armed and fully clothed asari commandos popping out of a plant was really out of left field. Oh yeah. Marina Sirtis and Ali Hillis in that scene are just... I like the idea of the Thorian, a sapient plant being is an interesting idea, but like you said there are a lot of things about the actual execution of the story with said being that are wonky. And my sister had the same question about the Shiala clones "Shouldn't those clones be naked?"
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 13, 2017 22:58:51 GMT
The thorian could have been better if we only fought enthralled colonists throughout.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 13, 2017 23:01:35 GMT
ME1 may be boring but every story beat is set up properly with lots of exposition, foreshadowing, character introduction and series of events.
Each story beat in Andromeda is contrived, lacks detail and characters are sometimes cookie cutter.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 13, 2017 23:17:09 GMT
I wouldn't agree that it's boring, but the race against time and final assault are riddled with contrivances as well. Still, I'd rank it above its sequel and very close to ME3.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 13, 2017 23:29:50 GMT
The thorian could have been better if we only fought enthralled colonists throughout. You mean you didn't like the way the Thorian clones an asari with armor and weapons?
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 13, 2017 23:32:16 GMT
The thorian could have been better if we only fought enthralled colonists throughout. You mean you didn't like the way the Thorian clones an asari with armor and weapons? Don't forget with biotic abilities and shield emitters. Elkoss Combine should hire a thorian to be a new factory. It could make a clone army faster than the motherflipping necky aliens on Kamino.
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Post by brad2240 on Apr 14, 2017 1:00:29 GMT
Can the people who think ME 2 is so great please explain to me why they think that?
For me it's:
1) The characters. The cast of ME2 is my favorite of any BW title ever (not counting Jacob because screw that guy) and the loyalty missions are arguably the best parts of the game. I love the focus that the game places on them. The characters ARE the game, and I think it's people's perceptions of the cast that ultimately determines how they feel about ME2 as a whole.
2) The combat. Light years ahead of ME1, this is the reason I kept coming back to ME2 for the 10th or 20th or 30th time. I'm probably in the minority but I think ME2's combat was better than 3's. The protection system was better than "all the combos, all the time!" and gave the different weapons a purpose to exist. And we weren't flooded with dozens of useless weapons and tons of category overlap.
3) Class balance. This goes hand-in-hand with combat. Class balance was at it's best here, with all classes feeling strong, none feeling redundant or overshadowed (looking at you ME1 Engineer) and the hybrids actually having their own identity. The only outlier, IMO, was the Assault Sentinel, which was far too strong to be as easy as it was. And then BW screwed that fine balance all to hell in ME3 like they'd never learned anything.
4) The Suicide Mission. Maybe the single best mission of any game I've ever played, it felt like a real payoff for the efforts of the rest of the game. I loved seeing my crew actually doing what I recruited them to do. I loved that their fates rested on my decisions and I could craft the results as I chose to. I was hoping ME3's final stage would be like this, only with me directing whole armies instead of individual people. That was a far bigger letdown to me than Star Kid ever thought about being.
Sure it has flaws, like it's main plot being by far the weakest of the trilogy, but as a whole package it's my favorite of the three.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Apr 14, 2017 1:09:28 GMT
First of all, if this is what considered a constructive feedback, then no wonder why most discussions go the way they go. Complains about lack of constructive feedback, but then does not give constructive feedback on why initial constructive feedback was not constructive.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2017 1:11:37 GMT
A fair point I still like MEA and it's sequels can help contextualize it. Still prefer the linearity and pacing of 2 and 3 though. For me this is what made the difference! Too much side questing and half of them were inconsequential fetch quests. (They could have introduced half of them after you finished the game. Like go back and check on colony x..) I loved the character missions. They were great! I especially liked Peebee, Dracks, and Liams. And I thought the main quest was pretty good. If they had streamlined it a bit more into a more linear format the pacing would have been a lot better. They try to compete with open world games but c'mon... the way ME is set up with planet hopping... it will always be zoned and they should just embrace that. ME 2 is my favorite game. It kind of stings to see them backtrack to ME 1 (which I loved the story of 1 but felt like a lot of it was a pain in the a** on replay... like the endless driving and inventory system.)
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 14, 2017 1:58:17 GMT
Whatever it is I like it. Definitely need a Matriarch squadmate and romance in MEA2! Enough with these little virgin girl Asari.
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Post by jf8350143 on Apr 14, 2017 2:05:48 GMT
I don't get the whole "another citadel, another Normandy" complain. It's a space station and a space ship, it is almost impossible to find a space sci-fi game without these two things. How else would you want Ryder to travel between the systems, turning into a Kryptonian?
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 14, 2017 2:11:08 GMT
I don't get the whole "another citadel, another Normandy" complain. It's a space station and a space ship, it is almost impossible to find a space sci-fi game without these two things. How else would you want Ryder to travel between the systems, turning into a Kryptonian? LOL, actually... No, I guess not.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 14, 2017 2:36:02 GMT
I don't get the whole "another citadel, another Normandy" complain. It's a space station and a space ship, it is almost impossible to find a space sci-fi game without these two things. How else would you want Ryder to travel between the systems, turning into a Kryptonian? I don't even care if the Tempest is essentially a Normandy rehash. Personally I think aesthetically it's a vast improvement over the original, and the internal layout is much nicer, especially the bridge. Rear Admiral Mikhailovich would agree with me.
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 14, 2017 2:58:16 GMT
First of all, if this is what considered a constructive feedback, then no wonder why most discussions go the way they go. Secondly, the argument about MEA being the first game, thus lacking supposed buildup and looking worse than trilogy is complete bollocks and has been rebuked numerous times. First of all, even ME1 was much more captivating than Andromeda with more believable and interesting characters and dialogues, among many other things. So you cant really use your argument there. Thirdly, even if viewed as stand-alone experience, ME 2 and 3 are still light years ahead more interesting and captivation that MEA will ever be, all things considered. Last but not least, ppl seriously need to stop trying to weasel Andromeda into better light by repeating that notwithstanding argument that MEA is supposedly a first game, because it is not. It had 3 previous game that did pretty much all the heavy stuff in establishing game setting, but at the same time moving to new galaxy provided developers with a huge margin of creative freedom and ability to insert new stuff into the game, luxury that original trilogy did not had. In other worlds - MEA devs "only" task was writing a new story and characters while having most assets already developed and established, and still they failed miserably even in this "luxurious" development environment. So pleas - please stop that mindless chanting about MEA being the first game and thus should be excused, because it is not. What it is is a very poor work of writing combined with unpolished technical part that got released in what essentially is a beta quality, at a price of a full AAA game. There is literally no excuse for that, so stop trying to excuse MEA with such nonsense Dude, no. Most people who say this miss a huge point. ME1 was never really well received. It's not a bad game but people in mass at the time found it boring to play and get through because of the game play. ME1 was just liked by the rpg ME1 compared to the other 2 games have the weakest character development with only Wrex as the real stand out. Garrus and Tali were interesting but not really was well loved then as they were now. it took the 3 games to be the stand out as they are now. liara had it even worse being she is notorious of being only interesting if romance. If not she is just a boring stalker(this coming for someone who really like Liara.) And let's not get started with Kaiden and Ashley. The guy has a point, most people who say it's not as great as the trilogy miss out the fact it took 3 games to do that. Hell, MEA character are more interesting then the ones in ME1. The stand out for the game was it's plot and story. Each main mission had a twist to it that changed everything to it's mission. And a great villain an Saren. MEA plot and story aren't bad but the villain finish badly and the Kett as threatening as they are, are just organic versions of the borg. With Me2 you missed another key thing, everyone one on the ship were colorful exotic characters even among their own races. these were assassins, vigilantes, mercs, and science projectsgone wrong. The cast of MEA are just normal people who are just trying to develop themselves and build new live. it's like comparing Apples to oranges. And with me3, it's the case of having a long history of characters. the are great because they were developed over 3 to 2 games. The cast of MEA is not bad, just not as colorful as ME2's. And out side of the start of the game and the truth of the kett and the Archon's end the story and plot is not bad.
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Post by jf8350143 on Apr 14, 2017 2:58:50 GMT
I don't get the whole "another citadel, another Normandy" complain. It's a space station and a space ship, it is almost impossible to find a space sci-fi game without these two things. How else would you want Ryder to travel between the systems, turning into a Kryptonian? I don't even care if the Tempest is essentially a Normandy rehash. Personally I think aesthetically it's a vast improvement over the original, and the internal layout is much nicer, especially the bridge. Rear Admiral Mikhailovich would agree with me. Also the elevators in Tempest doesn't require a loading screen. Now I actually want to go to my personal room, unlike in ME 2 and 3 where I go there only because I need to meet someone there.
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 14, 2017 3:00:35 GMT
Ah yes, wait until the second game comes out before judging, wait until patches come out before judging, wait until all DLCs come out before judging.... Sure why not... No one is saying to look over the animation(should be fixed before the game was released) but understand that character wise the game is not bad and these are normal people. No way it's going to be as colorful as me2's characters.
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