FeralEwok
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Post by FeralEwok on Apr 17, 2017 12:16:46 GMT
The problem with your argument is Jack and Samara were protecting against bugs. Sarissa and Cora redirected a salvo of missiles from a Kett Cruiser, back at the Cruiser. With a Barrier. They were being shot at with collector weapons both small arms and scion cannons. As to the redirecting missles? Yeah well...shut up! I can't hear you lalalalala. Edit: But seriously my argument was that duration and physical activity played a larger role than precisely what was being thrown at the barrier. Cora and the asari were stationary and combining their powers. They are both powerful (Powerful asari commando and a lady that could block a lightening strike) so you can multiply Jack or Samara's single field strength. And since they could anticipate when the rockets were coming they could put all their strength on a brief moment. But yeah I can't think of any argument about redirecting the missiles back at the ship. That was bananas.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 17, 2017 12:24:14 GMT
The problem with your argument is Jack and Samara were protecting against bugs. Sarissa and Cora redirected a salvo of missiles from a Kett Cruiser, back at the Cruiser. With a Barrier. They were being shot at with collector weapons both small arms and scion cannons. As to the redirecting missles? Yeah well...shut up! I can't hear you lalalalala. Edit: But seriously my argument was that duration and physical activity played a larger role than precisely what was being thrown at the barrier. Cora and the asari were stationary and combining their powers. They are both powerful so you can multiply Jack or Samara's single field strength. And since they could anticipate when the rockets were coming they could put all their strength on a brief moment. But yeah I can't think of any argument about redirecting the missiles back at the ship. That was bananas. Those collector bullets fly through the barrier and hit you...... Which only lends weight to the idea that missiles are definitely going to fuck up your day up for you. Edit: Yeah but theyd been fighting Kett for how long? Biotics need to be recharged not only in individual cooldowns but using them at all is supposed to be physically exhausting. So its impossible to believe for me.
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Post by FeralEwok on Apr 17, 2017 12:26:51 GMT
Those collector bullets fly through the barrier and hit you...... Which only lends weight to the idea that missiles are definitely going to fuck up your day up for you. Well... I didn't remember that.
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Post by zeypher on Apr 17, 2017 13:00:55 GMT
Biotics have always been a broken mess since me2. Nothing has changed, or do Reave and dominate being biotic abilities make any sense. Biotics are space magic pure and simple.
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lynroy
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Post by lynroy on Apr 17, 2017 13:26:00 GMT
One of the stupidest things ever in a Mass Effect game. A single Asari and a human. Redirecting enemy fire back at them with precision. Using a barrier. Agreed. I rolled my eyes many times during this mission, but that moment took the cake.
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VanSinn
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Post by VanSinn on Apr 17, 2017 13:28:51 GMT
I'll go on record and say that most of the issues that bug people on these boards...just don't bother me. I mean, I see 'em. I see the animation issues and the bugs and stuff. I can even kinda say that I can understand why people don't like all of the side content. I mean, there IS a whole fuckload of it. I think it's decently done for the most part, with some really good bits here and there.
This scene? This ONE scene, out of all of the others? Yeah, I'm fully fucking with you guys. That was BY FAR the dumbest scene in ME:A. Since, to me, it's the main stand out in a game of (mostly) decent to good content, I just facepalm and move on, but yeah. That was just....completely stupid with no way to justify it from even a "Bioware apologist" viewpoint. (I'm not an apologist, I've just mellowed enough in my older age to not let little shit bother me, and most of ME:A's issues are, by and large, little shit.)
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Post by Iakus on Apr 17, 2017 14:24:32 GMT
During Cora's loyalty mission she and Vederia managed not only to protect the entire Ark from tens of missles shot by Kett battleships, but to dodge them in such a perfect way that they demolished the poor bastards who used them in the first place. From the lore perspective, it doesn't make sense at all. Just think about how hard it was for our biotics to maintain the protection of the squad during suicide mission. It's unacceptable to sacrifice lore and basic common sense in order to make an epic scene. bsn.boards.net/thread/7982/plot-devices-holesYes! I noticed the same thing, this is not how biotics work, not even close.
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Post by Psychevore on Apr 17, 2017 14:36:50 GMT
Sarissa is probably the strongest Asari biotic we have ever met in the game. She's helped by argueably the second strongest human biotic we've ever met, if not the strongest, whose skills have been honed by elite of the Asari commandos.
The barrier last for maybe 30 seconds.
Also, Sarissa has a SAM and is pathfinder. Given that SAM has full control over her physiology and that biotics is ultimately, lore wise, a physiological thing and we're quite possibly watching the strongest 2 biotics we've ever seen, I don't think it's that impossible.
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Post by Psychevore on Apr 17, 2017 14:39:17 GMT
Those collector bullets fly through the barrier and hit you...... Isn't this confusing gameplay with story? Because in cutscenes one bullet kills things, but we all know that in gameplay it never does. edit: totally screwed up the quote
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Post by stiven on Apr 17, 2017 15:26:12 GMT
Pweh, respect the lore scrub. Asary is by nature extremely powerful biotics from birth. What they showed in that cutscene. hasn't been a big deal for 300+ years old super Asari biotic commando. In fact the only disappointing thing in this scene is that your biotic god (who just a moment ago has been affected by same biotic effect which affected Cora, as well and "anyone who capable in biotics") is just standing in that scene like some yobo solider and isn't helping them ;/ Bioware has done it again. Even late in the game, PC in cut-scenes starts to pulling damned Aveger from his ass, lol. Just like in previous 3 games ;/
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Post by amleth on Apr 17, 2017 15:45:43 GMT
I've...just given up on mass effect, I haven't played since 3 days after it launched and I don't think I'll be going back, it's just idiotic at this point.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 17, 2017 15:46:04 GMT
Sarissa is probably the strongest Asari biotic we have ever met in the game. She's helped by argueably the second strongest human biotic we've ever met, if not the strongest, whose skills have been honed by elite of the Asari commandos. The barrier last for maybe 30 seconds. Also, Sarissa has a SAM and is pathfinder. Given that SAM has full control over her physiology and that biotics is ultimately, lore wise, a physiological thing and we're quite possibly watching the strongest 2 biotics we've ever seen, I don't think it's that impossible. Umm, isn't the "control over physiology" thing unique to Ryder's SAM? In addition, I think the complaint isn't so much that they could deflect missiles with a biotic bubble, but that they could be sent back to their source. That sounds like considerably more than gravity control.
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Exile Isan
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Post by Exile Isan on Apr 17, 2017 16:16:26 GMT
I don't really have a problem with this, as they use two powers we've seen before Barrier (ME1 power/the Long Walk/LotSB/Thessia) and Throw (all Mass Effect games) to protect the ship and then redirect the missiles. That bubble is getting bigger and farther away from the ship. Jack/Samara pretty much do the same thing at the end of the long walk sequence to throw the Collectors out of the way in ME2. I have a higher tolerance for Space Magic I guess.
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Post by derrame on Apr 17, 2017 17:18:51 GMT
is Vederia or Sarissa the one who mantains the biotic bubble with Cora?
anyway, rejecting the missiles is one thing, it's ok, if the both are powerful enough, the stupid thing is to redirect the missiles right back to the kett ships
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Post by Light on Apr 17, 2017 17:39:04 GMT
Sarissa is probably the strongest Asari biotic we have ever met in the game. She's helped by argueably the second strongest human biotic we've ever met, if not the strongest, whose skills have been honed by elite of the Asari commandos. The barrier last for maybe 30 seconds. Also, Sarissa has a SAM and is pathfinder. Given that SAM has full control over her physiology and that biotics is ultimately, lore wise, a physiological thing and we're quite possibly watching the strongest 2 biotics we've ever seen, I don't think it's that impossible. First SAM node conversation establishes that Alec only overrode the safety protocols on the Hyperion SAM. The other three can see, hear and otherwise experience everything that their Pathfinder can but only the Human SAM has any control.
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raikas
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Post by raikas on Apr 17, 2017 18:07:47 GMT
I've given up on expecting the animations to match the lore, so I try to just roll my eyes and move on when it comes to these things. Sarissa is probably the strongest Asari biotic we have ever met in the game. She's helped by argueably the second strongest human biotic we've ever met, if not the strongest, whose skills have been honed by elite of the Asari commandos. I doubt the devs even thought about it beyond making the scene look a certain way, but I'm sure this is the closest to a real explanation we'd get. What bothers me about it is that across this game and the OT we weren't constantly meeting character after character who are supposed to have super-powered biotic powers. It's just tedious at this point (although at least in ME3 whoever wrote that "I worked very hard and now I can reave."/"What? How is that possible?" exchange between Kaidan and Liara seemed to be aware of how ridiculous it had become).
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Apr 17, 2017 18:21:14 GMT
Uhm....yeah so when we were complaining about the "it's Biotics" excuse was used for stupid shit (like the lack of armor and hardsuits in hazardous situations) we were labelled as nit pickers. When we said it was a slippery slope and that lore should drive the story telling, not vice versa, we were labelled as doom sayers nut jobs.
Well then, if you keep telling a dev that it is ok to spit on their own lore and keep softening their sci fi THIS is what you get
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Post by vyndral on Apr 17, 2017 18:39:36 GMT
Backlash.
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 17, 2017 19:41:38 GMT
Biotics have always been space magic. I don't know why you'd expect rules with them. Put it to you this way. Luke Skywalker throws a rock with the force. Fine. Luke Skywalker picks up the death star and throws into the sun. Stoopid..... Dude not even close to that level. it's not the first time we see biotics reflect missiles.
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 17, 2017 19:46:17 GMT
Biotics doesn't make sense at all in the first place. It's literally a space substitute for magic in a science fantasy game. I'll copy and paste what I've said before on this. "Well Jack or Samara had to keep a field up for an extended period of time, were walking for an extended period of time, and being attacked for an extended period of time. Somewhere between 5-10 minutes of sustained biotic use while having forces trying to penetrate your barrier would be a lot for one powerful biotic and we see that when they almost collapse by the end of the segment.
Now if I have two experienced and powerful biotics and only require them to hold a barrier up for a fraction of that time (I forget, the barrage was only like 30 seconds tops, right?)...they now have double the power and less time required to keep it going. You could have a larger and/or more powerful field at the expense of duration and mobility."
Throw in the fact they are using biotics in space and we don't know how that might be amplified (help me out here professional and amateur physicists) Now granted this could all be bullshit, but again see point one above. Did you play the ending of Mass Effect 3? The problem with your argument is Jack and Samara were protecting against bugs. Sarissa and Cora redirected a salvo of missiles from a Kett Cruiser, back at the Cruiser. With a Barrier. You mean the super advance nano bot that generate biotics and can each put a person into a stasis field and can carry of someone the weight of a super krogan off to the unknown that was made by a race infinitely more advance then the kett.. Let's not forget that feat of the bubble was more endurance and not strength.
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 17, 2017 19:48:21 GMT
They were being shot at with collector weapons both small arms and scion cannons. As to the redirecting missles? Yeah well...shut up! I can't hear you lalalalala. Edit: But seriously my argument was that duration and physical activity played a larger role than precisely what was being thrown at the barrier. Cora and the asari were stationary and combining their powers. They are both powerful so you can multiply Jack or Samara's single field strength. And since they could anticipate when the rockets were coming they could put all their strength on a brief moment. But yeah I can't think of any argument about redirecting the missiles back at the ship. That was bananas. Those collector bullets fly through the barrier and hit you...... Which only lends weight to the idea that missiles are definitely going to fuck up your day up for you. Edit: Yeah but theyd been fighting Kett for how long? Biotics need to be recharged not only in individual cooldowns but using them at all is supposed to be physically exhausting. So its impossible to believe for me. Actually Missile in ME are shot slower to increase there mass. They are not shot at the same speed as bullets.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Apr 17, 2017 20:24:07 GMT
Put it to you this way. Luke Skywalker throws a rock with the force. Fine. Luke Skywalker picks up the death star and throws into the sun. Stoopid..... Dude not even close to that level. it's not the first time we see biotics reflect missiles. Citation needed. Particularly in regards to ship-killer missiles.
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 17, 2017 22:20:56 GMT
Dude not even close to that level. it's not the first time we see biotics reflect missiles. Citation needed. Particularly in regards to ship-killer missiles. mass effect goes in detail on their missiles. They are shot much slower then any cannon fire due to the missile tech has technology in it to increase it's mass from maximum impact. No one need to stay slower things are easier to defelect. Added ME3 shows Asari do have training in making and maintaining barriers fordeflecting and stopping missile attacks. It does not matter how heavy attacking the missiles are if they don't explode close enought to radiate ( heat radiation, nuclear radiation,etc.) It won't have the desired effect. And if turned before it can explode then it's still in affective.
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 17, 2017 22:22:05 GMT
Uhm....yeah so when we were complaining about the "it's Biotics" excuse was used for stupid shit (like the lack of armor and hardsuits in hazardous situations) we were labelled as nit pickers. When we said it was a slippery slope and that lore should drive the story telling, not vice versa, we were labelled as doom sayers nut jobs. Well then, if you keep telling a dev that it is ok to spit on their own lore and keep softening their sci fi THIS is what you get but there is lore that can explain this.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 17, 2017 23:01:11 GMT
Citation needed. Particularly in regards to ship-killer missiles. mass effect goes in detail on their missiles. They are shot much slower then any cannon fire due to the missile tech has technology in it to increase it's mass from maximum impact. No one need to stay slower things are easier to defelect. Added ME3 shows Asari do have training in making and maintaining barriers fordeflecting and stopping missile attacks. It does not matter how heavy attacking the missiles are if they don't explode close enought to radiate ( heat radiation, nuclear radiation,etc.) It won't have the desired effect. And if turned before it can explode then it's still in affective. We are not talking about deflecting or stopping missiles, though. We are talking about REFLECTING them back at the ship that fired them.
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