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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2018 21:15:44 GMT
Vivienne seems to be pretty unpopular in the forums, but I have to say I'm really looking forward to meeting her when I get around to playing Inquisition. Unlike every other Bioware Ice Queen, for her it's not a front for a male pc to "melt". Vivienne is just a bitch, and I respect that much more than say Morrigan (who comes off as an angsty hipster teenager more than anything). I'm also interested in her views about the circle, but that's another topic entirely. I love Viv, even when I hate her. She's so well written and acted, has clear beliefs and won't change them for anybody. Going through all her dialogue about the Circle brings a much needed voice to the debate imo. It's easy to call her a bitch and I understand why people do, I've had characters who've disliked her too, but I think some people forget that you don't have to like a character for them to be really really well done. Also, you know, if she was a guy she wouldn't get so much hate. Just sayin. Maker forbid a strong woman has an opposing viewpoint and has the gall not to like you.
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Post by copper on Jul 29, 2018 21:31:11 GMT
Vivienne seems to be pretty unpopular in the forums, but I have to say I'm really looking forward to meeting her when I get around to playing Inquisition. Unlike every other Bioware Ice Queen, for her it's not a front for a male pc to "melt". Vivienne is just a bitch, and I respect that much more than say Morrigan (who comes off as an angsty hipster teenager more than anything). I'm also interested in her views about the circle, but that's another topic entirely. I love Viv, even when I hate her. She's so well written and acted, has clear beliefs and won't change them for anybody. Going through all her dialogue about the Circle brings a much needed voice to the debate imo. It's easy to call her a bitch and I understand why people do, I've had characters who've disliked her too, but I think some people forget that you don't have to like a character for them to be really really well done. Also, you know, if she was a guy she wouldn't get so much hate. Just sayin. Maker forbid a strong woman has an opposing viewpoint and has the gall not to like you. Yeah, she has her own opinions and won't be swayed by the protagonist, which is rather refreshing in a game imo. And I agree so hard on that last point. If a man takes initiative he's a good leader. If a woman does so she's a bitch. I've always wondered if people would feel differently about Anora if she was a man instead. No one seems to have a problem with Bhelen after all, and he's much more ruthless.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2018 21:42:08 GMT
Yeah, she has her own opinions and won't be swayed by the protagonist, which is rather refreshing in a game imo. And I agree so hard on that last point. If a man takes initiative he's a good leader. If a woman does so she's a bitch. I've always wondered if people would feel differently about Anora if she was a man instead. No one seems to have a problem with Bhelen after all, and he's much more ruthless. Oh man that's such a good point, Bhelen is just a strong King you guys! If he was female tho? Would Branka be so crazy if she was a guy? Would Anora be as incompetent? Would Sten or Zevran get away with as much shit? It's not always about girls vs guys or being sexist, some people just don't even realise they're a little more judgmental towards female characters. Isabela is a perhaps good example of someone who kind of transcends that and is respected for her skill, along with Harding and Leliana. Not many people would want to get in a fight with any of them.
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Post by duskwanderer on Jul 29, 2018 21:59:52 GMT
Vivienne seems to be pretty unpopular in the forums, but I have to say I'm really looking forward to meeting her when I get around to playing Inquisition. Unlike every other Bioware Ice Queen, for her it's not a front for a male pc to "melt". Vivienne is just a bitch, and I respect that much more than say Morrigan (who comes off as an angsty hipster teenager more than anything). I'm also interested in her views about the circle, but that's another topic entirely. I love Viv, even when I hate her. She's so well written and acted, has clear beliefs and won't change them for anybody. Going through all her dialogue about the Circle brings a much needed voice to the debate imo. It's easy to call her a bitch and I understand why people do, I've had characters who've disliked her too, but I think some people forget that you don't have to like a character for them to be really really well done. Also, you know, if she was a guy she wouldn't get so much hate. Just sayin. Maker forbid a strong woman has an opposing viewpoint and has the gall not to like you. I liked Viv, and I thought she was a bitch. Her character was a lot deeper than most. The fact that she's a lot more reasonable than any of the "Magez shld be teh freez" mages we see elsewhere in the game, we need to see people who state rather obvious truths. I also like how she feels that passing through a life doesn't have the power to change it. I agreed with her: Blackwall was a bit too much of a dreamer. I disagree that, if she was a guy, she'd be less hated. The difference is, we'd call him an asshole.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2018 22:01:00 GMT
Also, you know, if she was a guy she wouldn't get so much hate. Just sayin. Maker forbid a strong woman has Yeah I agree with you Vivienne is very well written and has such a lovely voice. Not sure she is a bitch though. She does know her own mind and calls it as she sees it, doesn't care what people think.
She used her wiles to live outside of the circle, something the ordinary mage can't do. Then she supports the circles with little change. I can't agree with that. That one set of rules for me and another; for the pathetic fools who aren't smart or clever enough to find a way out of circle like she did. It's that attitude don't care for, it doesn't make any difference to me if she was a male.
That's a really good point, she's such an unusual mage with how she managed to climb up and be so respected. It's good to have another point of view, and to see how other Circles, notably not Ferelden or Kirkwall, have opportunities for their mages to thrive. She represents the player who wants to keep the Circles. Not everyone Dusty, but I think she's judged more harshly online than she would be if she were a guy.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2018 22:02:49 GMT
I love Viv, even when I hate her. She's so well written and acted, has clear beliefs and won't change them for anybody. Going through all her dialogue about the Circle brings a much needed voice to the debate imo. It's easy to call her a bitch and I understand why people do, I've had characters who've disliked her too, but I think some people forget that you don't have to like a character for them to be really really well done. Also, you know, if she was a guy she wouldn't get so much hate. Just sayin. Maker forbid a strong woman has an opposing viewpoint and has the gall not to like you. I liked Viv, and I thought she was a bitch. Her character was a lot deeper than most. The fact that she's a lot more reasonable than any of the "Magez shld be teh freez" mages we see elsewhere in the game, we need to see people who state rather obvious truths. I also like how she feels that passing through a life doesn't have the power to change it. I agreed with her: Blackwall was a bit too much of a dreamer. I disagree that, if she was a guy, she'd be less hated. The difference is, we'd call him an asshole. That's why I liked her too, she represents the 'reasonable middle ground' if you will. You think? I hope so.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2018 22:18:16 GMT
That's why I liked her too, she represents the 'reasonable middle ground' if you will. You think? I hope so. Vivienne's extremist not represents the "reasonable middle ground". She does at the beginning of DAI.
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Post by duskwanderer on Jul 29, 2018 22:24:42 GMT
That's a really good point, she's such an unusual mage with how she managed to climb up and be so respected. It's good to have another point of view, and to see how other Circles, notably not Ferelden or Kirkwall, have opportunities for their mages to thrive. She represents the player who wants to keep the Circles. Not everyone Dusty, but I think she's judged more harshly online than she would be if she were a guy. That's a fair point.
Vivienne is like Wynne in that. Both support the circles and would like to see them stable.
And agree the game does need different points of view, its what makes Bioware so good in story telling. Thinking DA2 wouldn't have been nearly as good without a Fenris to counter Anders, a Meredith to counter Orsino. Course we wouldn't have all that lovely drama either
It would be really interesting to see how Vivienne would fair in Tevinter. I think her political acumen she would be successful which I suppose would mean I do have a kind of respect for her intelligence.
If she could find a way to reform the circles she might be a good Divine but I see her more as suited for Empress.
I agree that presenting points of view accurately and without prejudice is a staple of good storytelling, but I honestly think BioWARE failed in this regard when it comes to Inquisition: It seems to me like they really didn't put much effort into elaborating the templars or giving you a reason to support them.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 29, 2018 22:25:49 GMT
Vivienne's extremist not represents the "reasonable middle ground". She does at the beginning of DAI. And at the end, as Divine, she starts bloodshed. If Leliana's the Divine, she plays with the mages' fear to join her Circle – to keep her relevance. Where her loyalty to the Chantry?
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Post by copper on Jul 29, 2018 22:42:15 GMT
She does at the beginning of DAI. And at the end, as Divine, she starts bloodshed. If Leliana's the Divine, she plays with the mages' fear to join her Circle – to keep her relevance. Where her loyalty to the Chantry? You have no qualms about the bloodshed Anders or a hardened Leliana start. If Leliana is Divine, Vivienne is likely planning for the chaos of possessed mages being loose on the streets, whether this is accurate or not. You say she's playing with the mages' fear, but I believe it's her own fear as well.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 29, 2018 22:52:33 GMT
And at the end, as Divine, she starts bloodshed. If Leliana's the Divine, she plays with the mages' fear to join her Circle – to keep her relevance. Where her loyalty to the Chantry? You have no qualms about the bloodshed Anders or a hardened Leliana start. If Leliana is Divine, Vivienne is likely planning for the chaos of possessed mages being loose on the streets, whether this is accurate or not. You say she's playing with the mages' fear, but I believe it's her own fear as well. I agree with Leliana and Anders. This is a significant difference. Not mentioned, many consider Leliana as a bloodthirsty Divine, I just say, Vivienne just as bloodthirsty than Leliana, if no more. The paranoia never a good advisor... (Not I said she playing with the mages' fears, the Epilogue says.) "The end of the Inquisition as it had been sent shock waves through the College of Enchanters. Madam de Fer ably played on the mages' fear. Her followers united to build a new Circle - with Vivienne as its Grand Enchanter - in direct competition with the College. What the Circle lacked in numbers, they made up for in political connections; soon they were a force to be reckoned with."
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Post by lilyonce on Jul 29, 2018 22:58:52 GMT
I love Vivienne.
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Post by copper on Jul 29, 2018 23:04:50 GMT
You have no qualms about the bloodshed Anders or a hardened Leliana start. If Leliana is Divine, Vivienne is likely planning for the chaos of possessed mages being loose on the streets, whether this is accurate or not. You say she's playing with the mages' fear, but I believe it's her own fear as well. I agree with Leliana and Anders. This is a significant difference. Not mentioned, many consider Leliana as a bloodthirsty Divine, I just say, Vivienne just as bloodthirsty than Leliana, if no more. The paranoia never a good advisor... (Not I said she playing with the mages' fears, the Epilogue says.) "The end of the Inquisition as it had been sent shock waves through the College of Enchanters. Madam de Fer ably played on the mages' fear. Her followers united to build a new Circle - with Vivienne as its Grand Enchanter - in direct competition with the College. What the Circle lacked in numbers, they made up for in political connections; soon they were a force to be reckoned with."
The goals and beliefs of anyone, whether it be Anders, Leliana, or Vivienne wouldn't make any difference to their victims. I'm not arguing that Vivienne isn't using fear to manipulate people. But I do believe she feels that fear herself. She defends the circle system because it benefits her status, yes, but she's also seriously scared of demons.
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Post by melbella on Jul 31, 2018 0:44:38 GMT
Is there a way to hide mod portraits like I can everyone else's? Sorry, but I just don't like seeing Leliana's face everywhere I go.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 31, 2018 4:47:56 GMT
Is there a way to hide mod portraits like I can everyone else's? Sorry, but I just don't like seeing Leliana's face everywhere I go. Now that is certainly an unpopular opinion. Leiliana's face is her only redeeming quality.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2018 19:48:52 GMT
Is there a way to hide mod portraits like I can everyone else's? Sorry, but I just don't like seeing Leliana's face everywhere I go.
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Post by lilyonce on Jul 31, 2018 19:59:04 GMT
Dang. Crying Pikachu hits me right in the feels. I can't keep looking. Even I like Leliana. I think in another life she would've been essentially Teresa of Ávila.
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Post by melbella on Aug 1, 2018 0:41:12 GMT
Is there a way to hide mod portraits like I can everyone else's? Sorry, but I just don't like seeing Leliana's face everywhere I go. [ img src="https://media.giphy.com/media/L95W4wv8nnb9K/giphy.gif" style="max-width:100%;" alt=""]
Crying doesn't work on me. In fact, it usually has the opposite effect. As a manipulation tactic I find it in poor taste and generally despise those who use it and those who fall for it.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 1, 2018 0:45:18 GMT
img src="https://media.giphy.com/media/L95W4wv8nnb9K/giphy.gif" style="max-width:100%;" alt=""]
Crying doesn't work on me. In fact, it usually has the opposite effect. As a manipulation tactic I find it in poor taste and generally despise those who use it and those who fall for it. Your heart is as hard as the adamant!
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Post by melbella on Aug 1, 2018 0:46:46 GMT
Crying doesn't work on me. In fact, it usually has the opposite effect. As a manipulation tactic I find it in poor taste and generally despise those who use it and those who fall for it. Your heart is as hard as the adamant!
Yep. Until my kitties come calling....then all bets are off!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2018 11:20:10 GMT
[ img src="https://media.giphy.com/media/L95W4wv8nnb9K/giphy.gif" style="max-width:100%;" alt=""]
Crying doesn't work on me. In fact, it usually has the opposite effect. As a manipulation tactic I find it in poor taste and generally despise those who use it and those who fall for it. Fucking hell it was a joke.
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Post by warden on Aug 1, 2018 20:38:15 GMT
It should be addressed what is and what isn't unpopular these days. You would be surprised to find out how a lot of things aren't unpopular as you may believe.
Anyway, let's see if I can come with something unpopular later.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2018 7:51:43 GMT
Is there a way to hide mod portraits like I can everyone else's? Sorry, but I just don't like seeing Leliana's face everywhere I go. Use the Something Dark theme.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2018 11:40:16 GMT
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Post by themikefest on Aug 4, 2018 11:46:59 GMT
unpopular opinion. Merrill should be made tranquil.
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