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Post by bladefist on Apr 24, 2017 22:05:24 GMT
Casey Hudson probably left because of the crap he received for ME3's ending. Read the comments on this video.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 24, 2017 22:18:32 GMT
Casey Hudson probably left because of the crap he received for ME3's ending. Read the comments on this video. Snowflake Numero Uno. Everyone has their shit criticized. It's how you deal with it and move on. Stephen King is an author I love, but holy crap does he have haters. He's written several books that I love and some I never got past Chapter 1. Not everything is going to be a hit, but if you treat the art with respect and love and allow some kind of oversight when it's an amalgamation of music, video, scripting, controls and writing, it's going to be fine. Somewhere along the line, the game was stopped to continue the production of another title. The time for production came to an end and unfortunately, Hudson quit.
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Post by projectpatdc on Apr 24, 2017 22:20:17 GMT
Did you play the game? It's not so much blade runner but im puzzled how you could say it lacks sci-fi elements unless you're just doing this for attention. The game takes a lot of elements from the new Star Trek movies with Scott Ryder's character even being pretty close to Chris Pine's James Kirk. It heavily borrows from Firefly in terms of the Tempest, Prometheus for the the Vaults, scanner, and some outfit aesthetics, and a few things from interstellar. Not to mention it's trying to be very different from the trilogy but let's blindly complain that the 4th game in the series is trying to not be like the OT in tone or characters. Lastly, the entire main religious/Kett plot is a Reskin of Indiana Jones battling Nazis and some religious fanatic Nazi looking to obtain some tool or weapon left by a higher power. Then said religious leader gets destroyed by said power. And yup Indiana Jones is basically historical science fiction. And Harrison Ford is your beloved blade runner. I still think you either didn't play the game or you have an attention span of a gold fish (it's ok, I do too at times!) and didn't pay attention after the slow beginning lost you. You should learn how to deal with people who have a different opinion than you. That'll happen a lot in this world as you grow up. Attacking people right away just makes you look childish. I agree OP. I didn't get a sci-fi vibe either - just a very watered down feeling. This game could have been a fantasy RPG without the space suits and tempest. How am I attacking him? I asked if he had played the game bc his post doesn't makes sense to me. I gave my opinion and gave my evidence to support it. Isn't that what the forums are for? You seem to get offended easily by my sarcastic or smart ass remarks NOT to mention I included myself in the smart ass comment bc I do lose attention easier as I have less time to play. Is 30 the new age of being a grown up?
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Post by Invellous on Apr 24, 2017 22:34:27 GMT
So do people like Casey Hudson or not? I'm never sure what the consensus is from day to day. He played an instrumental role in creating my second favorite Star Wars game and creating my favorite video game franchise. He's aces in my book. ME3 ending was quite a fuck up but if I instantly disliked every creator for making a big mistake, I'd have a very small list of artists I still liked. It's easy for us to sit here and point and speculate as to what exactly went wrong and who we should blame etc. but it's not solely his fault and even if you dislike everything about Mass Effect 3 it shouldn't automatically disqualify all the great things that came before it...also helps that they at least attempted to fix some of the major issues with the ME3 endings while not completely giving up on what they wanted for the end. He could have given us a big middle finger and rode off into the sunset, but instead he stuck with it and endured all the criticism/threats lobbed at him while wrapping up the trilogy. Up to that point the guy was batting a thousand, and it sucks that he'll mostly be remembered for Starchild. Deserves a little bit better than that I think. Okay I'm done fellating the guy now. This right here. ^ Honestly, people should be past the Mass Effect 3 ending by now. I was just as lost and confused as anyone else when I first saw it too, yes it was not an ideal ending or even one that made any sense but it is over. The community lost that battle a long time ago. Roasting Hudson further here serves literally no purpose. The guy played his part and muscled through it like a champ to the bitter end. I can respect that, even if if I disagree with the artistic direction. I personally enjoyed the journey from the original Mass Effect up to the third and even enjoy / enjoyed Andromeda. Now let us put the dead horse back in the grave, yeah?
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Post by Terminator Force on Apr 24, 2017 22:43:03 GMT
Casey Hudson probably left because of the crap he received for ME3's ending. Read the comments on this video. All those Casey Hudson haters. Well, they can rest safe now, because Andromeda is everything we all imagined what a Mass Effect without Casey Hudson at the helm to be. Some fantasy RPG with spacesuits and tempest. EDIT - 1000th post. So it must mean something.
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Post by dm04 on Apr 24, 2017 22:56:50 GMT
it does not matter if he's not the writer. The more I go on with this debate makes me wonder if you know how games are made. The lead designer oversees everthung with the product of the game.from game play to writing. They don’t do it themselves but the help plan and unite the project together.that means it matters not who head writer is. They don't write what they want. The leaf designer is the last say to what goes in or not. You don’t need to br a writer to know a part of a plot is bad.the fact that Casey saw the original plot of the ending and saw nothing wrong with it speaks volumes. So what you're saying Casey Hudson wrote all of Mass Effect Trilogy? Wow, then it's even more of a shame that no one respects him. You are ignoring what dreman999 said. The director of a game (Hudson) is (like) the director of a movie. There is the screenplaywriter, he writes the story and what happens when and gives it to the director, the director approves or rejects it. Upon rejection, a new screenplay have to be written. It is not uncommon a screenplay is rejected many times and when it happens way too often, the leadwriter is replaced. Hudson must NOT "write" it, but he has to approve what the writer(s) give him. It does not matter what a great job Hudson accomplished with ME and ME2 or a great scifi fan he is. He approved the story for ME3 and therefore he failed BIG... and yes the writer himself also failed, but that is a different story. Look at some of the great holywood directors, SO many have fallen from grace... like P. Verhoeven, belowed after RoboCop and Starship Troopers and then bam Showgirls, maybe he thought he could make the movie work, well, nope. Or R. Scott... all this hype when we learned he is going to direct Prometheus, the Alien franchise was going nowhere after 3 and 4 and then Scott returned and gave us Prometheus... bam. Cameron... though I donot remember why he has fallen, he redeemed himself with Avatar. So no matter how you look at it, Hudson had the final say and he is THE ONLY person responsible for the ME3 dissaster. He could have redeemed himself with MEA, but he rather left the sinking? ship.
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Conquer Your Dreams
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on Apr 24, 2017 23:00:23 GMT
Casey was a heart and soul of ME trilogy. I got the feeling that with him Andromeda will be much better overall.
And i never really understand all that hatred about ME3 ending.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 24, 2017 23:00:44 GMT
So what you're saying Casey Hudson wrote all of Mass Effect Trilogy? Wow, then it's even more of a shame that no one respects him. You are ignoring what dreman999 said. The director of a game (Hudson) is (like) the director of a movie. There is the screenplaywriter, he writes the story and what happens when and gives it to the director, the director approves or rejects it. Upon rejection, a new screenplay have to be written. It is not uncommon a screenplay is rejected many times and when it happens way too often, the leadwriter is replaced. Hudson must NOT "write" it, but he has to approve what the writer(s) give him. It does not matter what a great job Hudson accomplished with ME and ME2 or a great scifi fan he is. He approved the story for ME3 and therefore he failed BIG... and yes the writer himself also failed, but that is a different story. Look at some of the great holywood directors, SO many have fallen from grace... like P. Verhoeven, belowed after RoboCop and Starship Troopers and then bam Showgirls, maybe he thought he could make the movie work, well, nope. Or R. Scott... all this hype when we learned he is going to direct Prometheus, the Alien franchise was going nowhere after 3 and 4 and then Scott returned and gave us Prometheus... bam. Cameron... though I donot remember why he has fallen, he redeemed himself with Avatar. So no matter how you look at it, Hudson had the final say and he is THE ONLY person responsible for the ME3 dissaster. He could have redeemed himself with MEA, but he rather left the sinking? ship.Booyah. He chose to puss out instead of manning up. But... so did the rest of the old Bioware and I know some left because of EA's commercial production process or because they knew they had become irrelevant under the new direction EA wanted and has gotten.
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Post by dm04 on Apr 24, 2017 23:01:22 GMT
In ME1 when you talk to Wrex, Liara, Tali and Garrus you learn more about their respective cultures which are all new and interesting. And when you talk to Ashley and Kaiden you learn how humanity has and hasn't changed in in the future. When you talk with the companions in ME:A you learn about their sister, their robot turret and a couch. Very well said and the sad truth it, it is even worse. In ME1 and ME2, the two with us had ALWAYS something to say about the mission, the conversation, the situation we were in. In MEA it hardly happens. But hey, we got endless banter when driving the Nomad, which gives us just more about their sisters, their robot turrets and couches. It is saddening. Oh and do not forget: Ryder watch out... Cora, everytime you come too close to a "pit".
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Post by Sailears on Apr 24, 2017 23:02:07 GMT
MEA has significantly more "sci-fi feels" than ME2.
It's also not as depressignly cynical as ME3.
I'll always love CH for KotOR and ME1, nothing will tarnish how good both those games were.
But MEA is a damn good game and better than the last two installments in this franchise.
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on Apr 24, 2017 23:04:34 GMT
"So no matter how you look at it, Hudson had the final say and he is THE ONLY person responsible for the ME3 dissaster. He could have redeemed himself with MEA, but he rather left the sinking? ship."
ME3 disaster ? Wow. So after comparing reviews and scores, how should i call Andromeda ? The biggest tragedy in gaming history ? Seriously.....
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Post by Terminator Force on Apr 24, 2017 23:12:02 GMT
So what you're saying Casey Hudson wrote all of Mass Effect Trilogy? Wow, then it's even more of a shame that no one respects him. You are ignoring what dreman999 said. The director of a game (Hudson) is (like) the director of a movie. There is the screenplaywriter, he writes the story and what happens when and gives it to the director, the director approves or rejects it. Upon rejection, a new screenplay have to be written. It is not uncommon a screenplay is rejected many times and when it happens way too often, the leadwriter is replaced. Hudson must NOT "write" it, but he has to approve what the writer(s) give him. It does not matter what a great job Hudson accomplished with ME and ME2 or a great scifi fan he is. He approved the story for ME3 and therefore he failed BIG... and yes the writer himself also failed, but that is a different story. Look at some of the great holywood directors, SO many have fallen from grace... like P. Verhoeven, belowed after RoboCop and Starship Troopers and then bam Showgirls, maybe he thought he could make the movie work, well, nope. Or R. Scott... all this hype when we learned he is going to direct Prometheus, the Alien franchise was going nowhere after 3 and 4 and then Scott returned and gave us Prometheus... bam. Cameron... though I donot remember why he has fallen, he redeemed himself with Avatar. So no matter how you look at it, Hudson had the final say and he is THE ONLY person responsible for the ME3 dissaster. He could have redeemed himself with MEA, but he rather left the sinking? ship. You say that as if EA has got all the time in the world to delay & polish their games further. Because last I checked, ME3 had the shortest dev time in the series, and it was even shorter on the onset.
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Post by ProbeAway on Apr 24, 2017 23:19:25 GMT
MAKO made more sense from a gameplay perspective, since there's was some thought in navigating it's terrain. Meanwhile the Nomad is only there to take you from point A to B without any problems or thought, then to be used as cover when you arrive at destination because the shooting aspect of MAKO game play doesn't exist either. So that's your comparison. MAKO has game play with level design & shooting, meanwhile Nomad makes great cover and zero game play. I understand your view that MEA is lacking something that the OT had, but I can't agree with this comment. In story missions, the Mako existed solely to get you from point A to B too. And on UNC worlds the terrain design was AWFUL. Driving the Nomad has been a far less frustrating experience. If you miss the guns then that's fine. Personally I don't because the gunplay in the Mako was more cheesy than strategic or smooth, but each to their own. As Cyonan said, this game is still plenty sci-fi (more so than ME3 IMO, which was just a war zone), the writing just isn't as compelling.
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Post by vonuber on Apr 24, 2017 23:31:33 GMT
For example people are now saying ME2 had a fantastic main plot They do?? That's insane! Yup. Even in this thread we have moved onto the walking (well static around the ship) codex entries of ME1 being marvellous nuanced characters. Only a matter of time before the starchild is raised up to the pantheon.
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Post by Terminator Force on Apr 24, 2017 23:37:20 GMT
MAKO made more sense from a gameplay perspective, since there's was some thought in navigating it's terrain. Meanwhile the Nomad is only there to take you from point A to B without any problems or thought, then to be used as cover when you arrive at destination because the shooting aspect of MAKO game play doesn't exist either. So that's your comparison. MAKO has game play with level design & shooting, meanwhile Nomad makes great cover and zero game play. I understand your view that MEA is lacking something that the OT had, but I can't agree with this comment. In story missions, the Mako existed solely to get you from point A to B too. And on UNC worlds the terrain design was AWFUL. Driving the Nomad has been a far less frustrating experience. If you miss the guns then that's fine. Personally I don't because the gunplay in the Mako was more cheesy than strategic or smooth, but each to their own. As Cyonan said, this game is still plenty sci-fi (more so than ME3 IMO, which was just a war zone), the writing just isn't as compelling. I just said MAKO had more game play then Nomad. And thanks for your opinion on the Andromeda sci-fi feels.
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Post by Terminator Force on Apr 24, 2017 23:38:50 GMT
Yup. Even in this thread we have moved onto the walking (well static around the ship) codex entries of ME1 being marvellous nuanced characters. Only a matter of time before the starchild is raised up to the pantheon. So you waiting the day Andromeda gets raised to the pantheon?
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Post by vonuber on Apr 24, 2017 23:47:41 GMT
So you waiting the day Andromeda gets raised to the pantheon? It'll happen eventually. Even the borefest of DA:I is getting articles about how good it was (see a recent one on RPS as an example). The passage of time does funny thibgs. For example I have really fond memories of playing streets of rage 2 (ask your parents). I played it endlessly and if you ask me what I think I'll rave on about the move set, co-op, sound, graphics.. Of course when I fire up the emulator and have a go now, I stop after about 10 minutes as I remember it's nowhere near as good as I remember it being, nor was it at the time.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 24, 2017 23:58:43 GMT
It just occurred to me: does the title suggest that Casey left because it lacks scifi feels, or does it lack scifi feels because Casey left? If it's the former, why didn't he stay to feel it up?
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Post by Terminator Force on Apr 25, 2017 0:01:54 GMT
It just occurred to me: does the title suggest that Casey left because it lacks scifi feels, or does it lack scifi feels because Casey left? If it's the former, why didn't he stay to feel it up? Both. My hunch is that he didn't have enough creative control on the matter or too many creative differences with others.
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Post by dm04 on Apr 25, 2017 0:11:39 GMT
You say that as if EA has got all the time in the world to delay & polish their games further. Because last I checked, ME3 had the shortest dev time in the series, and it was even shorter on the onset. And? As if movies and tv shows had no deadlines, and they manage too, other games as well. Besides, while I do not agree with some things in ME3, it was the ending that crushed it. 10 minutes ruined 3 games. Please do not tell me they would have needed 1 or 2 years to pull off another ending! Do you know this MEHEM? I did not until it was mentioned in this thread, watched it, amazing what few modders accomplished. WIth recut and rearragned ingame cutscenes and audio. It would not take BioWare longer to do the ending like this, then creating this starchild and then the extended cut to improve it a little bit. The leadwriter screwed up, but Hudson?? He was there from the very beginning, he pretty damn know what he was doing, or should have, that ending, seriously? After ME ME and all the DLCs and even ME3? And he even have the gall to call this garbage "art"... my ass, art... there are people pressing dye up their asses and farting it out towards a white wall and call this shit art, yah, that is pretty much the same. I wonder if he know what "bittersweet" actualy mean. Do you? If you want a to learn something about it, I suggest reading "Legend" by David Gemmel. Spoiler about the ending of the book By the end of the book, one of the two main protagonists is dead, as well as many many minor characters. Also a ton of soldies defending the fortress. In the end a victory, with a lot of loses. THAT is bittersweet. But what did we got? Control: defeat (yah we control the evil, that is realy a win, not) Synthesis: defeat (yah this merge of organic and synthetic life, sure, we cease to exist as we are, so basicaly, the reapers win) Destruction: defeat (yah it kills the geth and edi in the process and who knows who else, this does not sound like a victory to me) and on top of that like 80% of the galaxy population dead by reapers, many characters dead, inclusive Shepard (yah sure with best scenario possible we see the chest graspin for air once, now that is very reassuring), and everything destroyed, inclusive the me relay network this is no victory, there is nothing sweet in all three endings, it is just bitter and not worth all what was there before (ME/ME2) Please, do yourself a favor and stop defending Hudson. This whiteknighting for him isnt helping anyone. And this has nothing to do with opinion. If someone tells you 1+2=7 then it is wrong in our universe and not a subject of opinion. He screwed, by any standard and definition, and while you may disagree, it changes nothing. If something is black, it does not turn out to be red just because you say so. It is still black. And if you do not believe me, go check on the responsibilities of a director and the definition of bittersweet. Oh and one sidenote, with all we went through in ME and ME2, an ending like ME3 is like being f... in the ass and then it is called art. I do not play games to "not win". There is already enough loosing and misery in RL.
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Post by Cyonan on Apr 25, 2017 0:14:43 GMT
Yup. Even in this thread we have moved onto the walking (well static around the ship) codex entries of ME1 being marvellous nuanced characters. Only a matter of time before the starchild is raised up to the pantheon. So you waiting the day Andromeda gets raised to the pantheon? In due time, all things no matter how hated they were get praised by somebody. There was a time when Casey Hudson was among the most hated people in BioWare's fanbase for approving the end of ME3. Now people are actively asking for him back. I fully expect that if BioWare ever got rid of Mac Walters, there would be a group of people going "This new guy sucks. Bring back Mac!".
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Post by projectpatdc on Apr 25, 2017 0:42:04 GMT
"So no matter how you look at it, Hudson had the final say and he is THE ONLY person responsible for the ME3 dissaster. He could have redeemed himself with MEA, but he rather left the sinking? ship." ME3 disaster ? Wow. So after comparing reviews and scores, how should i call Andromeda ? The biggest tragedy in gaming history ? Seriously..... All subjective and my opinion but ME3 was utter crap. It was a streamlined gears of war clone playing off most of the great plots and characters of the first two games. As a stand alone game without including the ending, it was terrible. The reviews for Andromeda are certainly more polarizing but I would say MEA is much better game than ME3 overall.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Terminator Force on Apr 25, 2017 1:07:47 GMT
So you waiting the day Andromeda gets raised to the pantheon? In due time, all things no matter how hated they were get praised by somebody. There was a time when Casey Hudson was among the most hated people in BioWare's fanbase for approving the end of ME3. Now people are actively asking for him back. I fully expect that if BioWare ever got rid of Mac Walters, there would be a group of people going "This new guy sucks. Bring back Mac!". The world is a crazy place.
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August 2016
terminatorforce
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Terminator Force on Apr 25, 2017 1:17:10 GMT
You say that as if EA has got all the time in the world to delay & polish their games further. Because last I checked, ME3 had the shortest dev time in the series, and it was even shorter on the onset. And? As if movies and tv shows had no deadlines, and they manage too, other games as well. Besides, while I do not agree with some things in ME3, it was the ending that crushed it. 10 minutes ruined 3 games. Please do not tell me they would have needed 1 or 2 years to pull off another ending! Do you know this MEHEM? I did not until it was mentioned in this thread, watched it, amazing what few modders accomplished. WIth recut and rearragned ingame cutscenes and audio. It would not take BioWare longer to do the ending like this, then creating this starchild and then the extended cut to improve it a little bit. The leadwriter screwed up, but Hudson?? He was there from the very beginning, he pretty damn know what he was doing, or should have, that ending, seriously? After ME ME and all the DLCs and even ME3? And he even have the gall to call this garbage "art"... my ass, art... there are people pressing dye up their asses and farting it out towards a white wall and call this shit art, yah, that is pretty much the same. I wonder if he know what "bittersweet" actualy mean. Do you? If you want a to learn something about it, I suggest reading "Legend" by David Gemmel. Spoiler about the ending of the book By the end of the book, one of the two main protagonists is dead, as well as many many minor characters. Also a ton of soldies defending the fortress. In the end a victory, with a lot of loses. THAT is bittersweet. But what did we got? Control: defeat (yah we control the evil, that is realy a win, not) Synthesis: defeat (yah this merge of organic and synthetic life, sure, we cease to exist as we are, so basicaly, the reapers win) Destruction: defeat (yah it kills the geth and edi in the process and who knows who else, this does not sound like a victory to me) and on top of that like 80% of the galaxy population dead by reapers, many characters dead, inclusive Shepard (yah sure with best scenario possible we see the chest graspin for air once, now that is very reassuring), and everything destroyed, inclusive the me relay network this is no victory, there is nothing sweet in all three endings, it is just bitter and not worth all what was there before (ME/ME2) Please, do yourself a favor and stop defending Hudson. This whiteknighting for him isnt helping anyone. And this has nothing to do with opinion. If someone tells you 1+2=7 then it is wrong in our universe and not a subject of opinion. He screwed, by any standard and definition, and while you may disagree, it changes nothing. If something is black, it does not turn out to be red just because you say so. It is still black. And if you do not believe me, go check on the responsibilities of a director and the definition of bittersweet. Oh and one sidenote, with all we went through in ME and ME2, an ending like ME3 is like being f... in the ass and then it is called art. I do not play games to "not win". There is already enough loosing and misery in RL. I'm saying before BioWare got bought by EA, the politics at BioWare were different because BioWare was a private company headed by two cool doctors. ie. These days EA pushed the impossible on BioWare with Andromeda and it shows. All because EA is chasing those juicy open world numbers others are enjoying. It's all statistics to EA, no soul. And lets stop hating on Hudson because of just one thing that nobody even knows the real story to. Instead remember he was a key figure in what made sci-fi epics like KotoR, ME1 and ME2 great.
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terminatorforce
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Terminator Force on Apr 25, 2017 1:22:40 GMT
"So no matter how you look at it, Hudson had the final say and he is THE ONLY person responsible for the ME3 dissaster. He could have redeemed himself with MEA, but he rather left the sinking? ship." ME3 disaster ? Wow. So after comparing reviews and scores, how should i call Andromeda ? The biggest tragedy in gaming history ? Seriously..... All subjective and my opinion but ME3 was utter crap. It was a streamlined gears of war clone playing off most of the great plots and characters of the first two games. As a stand alone game without including the ending, it was terrible. The reviews for Andromeda are certainly more polarizing but I would say MEA is much better game than ME3 overall. I'm personally no fan of ME3 either to the point that I don't even consider it cannon. I just let my imagination fill in the blanks to what ME3 could have been like and consider the ME3 we got good enough fan sci-fiction. But MEA is certainly much worse, not even science fiction, and that's my opinion.
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