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Post by lgp22 on May 4, 2017 11:18:31 GMT
I don't know if they will ever turn into more than just a simple evil, unlike the Geth. I'm not sure how I feel about that statement. I liked what they did with Legion in ME2 but I think the handling of the Geth in ME3 was one of the low points of the trilogy. I think I would rather the Kett remain simple and generic, an enemy to easily be disliked, than go through the heavy-handed "we're not really bad" stuff again. The Kett need a really compelling leader as an antagonist. The Archon could have gotten there, maybe if he'd been a little more present in the game. I have hopes that the Primus or whoever is next has a little more Saren or Loghain in them. Correct me if i'm wrong but didn't bioware said that we would be able to sympathize with the Kett?? Personally didn't really see anything sympathetic about them.
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Post by Garo on May 4, 2017 11:56:14 GMT
He is probably the only youtuber I can watch entire hour of and not get bored.
As always he nailed it when it comes to analysing this game. As much as I want to love Andromeda it just has too many questionable things thrown in there. From animations to writing it's just a big mess. Still I enjoy it as a Mass Effect fanboy who just wants more and more of this universe, but this game is a huge let down.
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Post by luckystarr on May 4, 2017 14:07:05 GMT
If nothing else, I just want to make people aware of Noah. He's a great critic, and I think he deserves a larger audience. I genuinely don't understand why someone would watch an hour long video telling them how they should (or shouldn't) feel about a certain game. This is a problem with art criticism in general, of course, not this particular guy against whom I have nothing personally.
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Post by themikefest on May 4, 2017 14:25:51 GMT
21st century? I was playing original Legend of Zelda in the '80s I was playing pong in the '70's
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dm04
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Post by dm04 on May 4, 2017 14:52:47 GMT
If nothing else, I just want to make people aware of Noah. He's a great critic, and I think he deserves a larger audience. I genuinely don't understand why someone would watch an hour long video telling them how they should (or shouldn't) feel about a certain game. This is a problem with art criticism in general, of course, not this particular guy against whom I have nothing personally. Because there are people who have to decide "buy A or B" and such "reviews" are better then what we got on paper. Because there are people who rather spend 1 hour listening then 100hours playing to find out the same. And last but not least, devs DO look for feedback and it is easier for them to watch an hour long video and see the like/dislike proportion then to read through 1 million emails/forum posts.
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RoboticWater
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Post by RoboticWater on May 4, 2017 15:14:44 GMT
If nothing else, I just want to make people aware of Noah. He's a great critic, and I think he deserves a larger audience. I genuinely don't understand why someone would watch an hour long video telling them how they should (or shouldn't) feel about a certain game. This is a problem with art criticism in general, of course, not this particular guy against whom I have nothing personally. First of all, lets establish the fact that critique doesn't tell you how to feel. Critique is provided in an argumentative format that may seem imperative, but really isn't. They're trying to make a point. Whether or not you agree with or even find it helpful it is up to you. As a designer, my job is almost entirely founded upon what others think about what I produce, so I endeavor to figure out what people like and don't like about popular media to improve my own. Of course, getting this feedback directly from users is often impractical, but more importantly, most users are idiots. If their feedback isn't utterly useless, it can easily be far too superficial. "I like it because it's fun" isn't constructive. This is why I go to critics; they have the critical eye needed to see the problems and successes in a product and the vocabulary with which to properly articulate them. Critique also helps me broaden my horizons. The really good critics will not only elaborate on their specific opinions on a piece, but place it within some kind of broader context. This means they'll be referencing a bunch of similar media that I might wish to avail myself of. This critique of Paprika introduced me to a number of neat literary concepts like Historical Materialism and works like Theses on the Philosophy of History. Being exposed to these kinds of concepts can supplant my lack of classical literary training and only improve my creations. As a critic, I consider it important to establish where my opinion lies in relationship to others. I can say that Andromeda is too big for its own good and plays it far too safe (two very subjective assessments) because I've seen enough critique that corroborates such a stance. It's nice knowing that I'm not so wildly off base. It's also a nice way to build references for future reviews. If I like a point that one critic makes, but think I can expand upon it, knowing there's a published source I can refer back to is helpful in the generation of my own work. Most importantly, it helps me cut my teeth. Disagreeing with critique is usually a lot more involved than disagreeing with randos on the internet. I have to either strengthen my own argument against well-articulated points or alter it to integrate new data. It's also good for games I haven't played. Critiques are essentially reviews, but view their subjects as art more than products. So as a guy who enjoys games as art more than products, I actually find critique to be a better metric for my purchasing decisions.
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Post by ShadowAngel on May 4, 2017 15:29:26 GMT
If nothing else, I just want to make people aware of Noah. He's a great critic, and I think he deserves a larger audience. I genuinely don't understand why someone would watch an hour long video telling them how they should (or shouldn't) feel about a certain game. This is a problem with art criticism in general, of course, not this particular guy against whom I have nothing personally. Reviewers aren't "telling people how" to look at a game. Their agenda is to merely give their own perspective on what the game did good and bad for them. One reviewer can say the gameplay is awful with explanations and another could say it's great with explanations(and personally, so long as they can at least explain in their views then there's nothing wrong). It's up to the viewer to decide whether or not that enticed them to give the game a go. I happen to watch AJS even on games I don't buy just for his perspective but i ultimately don't agree to everything he says and go by what he says. There are games I've loved that get destroyed critically and games I dispise when they succeed critically. There will even be things I'll disagree with when I play said game even when I can agree with the reviewer for the most part. in the end a reviewer is really there to inform, yea they do judge but ultimately they're in place to inform you and it's then up to you on how you take that information. The good thing about games is a lot happen to do demos and betas for people to use to get their own perspective before paying full price for a game if reviewers aren't doing much for them. a big time reviewer can actually carry a lot of power with them as well, get the ones that have millions of subscriber who happen to share the same mindset and they can influence a companies future (good or bad), if it really didn't bother the devs, they wouldn't kick so many out of press conferences or doing interviews together and they also wouldn't try to endorse/sponsor so many.. AJS has been kicked out a few himself just cause of his negative opinion towards certain products before and he's also encouraged supporting other devs with positive opinions. It's why it's so funny seeing people say "why should I care?" Perhaps you don't, but others do, and as said, the fact that even devs and publishers go out of their way working with these guys as well as trying to quiet them down show they have influence. They help market a game.
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luckystarr
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by luckystarr on May 4, 2017 17:27:17 GMT
As a designer, my job is almost entirely founded upon what others think about what I produce, so I endeavor to figure out what people like and don't like about popular media to improve my own. Of course, getting this feedback directly from users is often impractical, but more importantly, most users are idiots. If their feedback isn't utterly useless, it can easily be far too superficial. You're contradicting yourself there: if you're making a product for the certain audience, it is only their desires your should strive to satisfy. Regardless of whether or not they're morons. If they are, then you should take this fact into account and design whatever it is you're designing accordingly. I can say that Andromeda is too big for its own good and plays it far too safe (two very subjective assessments) because I've seen enough critique that corroborates such a stance. Basing an argument on authority rather than hard evidence (akin to saying "Millions hamsters can't be wrong.")? Much worse, authority assured by mutual references within a fairly small group of individuals with no external validation. the fact that even devs and publishers go out of their way working with these guys as well as trying to quiet them down show they have influence. They help market a game. I never doubted their influence (acquired through swaying the opinions of thousands people (hamsters?) who don't have, or don't bother to form, an opinion of their own). I only doubt what they do makes any sense other than entertaining those people who genuinely like listening what the reviewers have to say as a pastime.
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Solona Amell
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Post by Elsariel on May 4, 2017 18:07:15 GMT
If nothing else, I just want to make people aware of Noah. He's a great critic, and I think he deserves a larger audience. I genuinely don't understand why someone would watch an hour long video telling them how they should (or shouldn't) feel about a certain game. This is a problem with art criticism in general, of course, not this particular guy against whom I have nothing personally. I watched the video to perhaps get a different or unique perspective on the topic. Don't really see how listening to another's opinion as problematic. If you take someone else's opinion on something as "this is how I must think about it, too", then that's on you. I think the healthy attitude is to listen to another's perspective with an open mind and, at the end, you can choose to agree or disagree. You may take away something interesting from that perspective. Or not. In either case, I think it's a good idea to open your mind to other opinions, especially ones that may be opposite to your own. At the very least, you can understand their reasoning even if you ultimately don't agree. That's just my $0.02, though.
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Post by Kappa Neko on May 4, 2017 18:35:54 GMT
I actually love reading reviews AFTER I've played/watched/read something because I like comparing impressions. It's fascinating how differently we all perceive things. I love over-analyzing everything and that includes listening to other people's interpretations. I read reviews of every movie or TV show episode I have watched just for the fun of it.
I avoid detailed reviews before I get my hands on a piece of entertainment because I hate spoilers. Most reviews give away too much imo. Especially video reviews. When I'm undecided about a game I watch bits of random gameplay.
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linksocarina
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on May 4, 2017 20:15:29 GMT
If nothing else, I just want to make people aware of Noah. He's a great critic, and I think he deserves a larger audience. I genuinely don't understand why someone would watch an hour long video telling them how they should (or shouldn't) feel about a certain game. This is a problem with art criticism in general, of course, not this particular guy against whom I have nothing personally. It is critique, not review. Critique is presenting a poibt of view to consider, and in the case of Gervais, one that is stemming from erudite study of Sci-Fi tropes and conventions combined with BioWare's history. Such criticism is valid because of where it is rooted. It's not meant to tell you how to think, it's meant to offer perspective of a product. It's a good thing because of not only the artistry involved in the game, but also of the enjoyment and growth of gaming as a medium.
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RoboticWater
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Post by RoboticWater on May 4, 2017 21:18:12 GMT
As a designer, my job is almost entirely founded upon what others think about what I produce, so I endeavor to figure out what people like and don't like about popular media to improve my own. Of course, getting this feedback directly from users is often impractical, but more importantly, most users are idiots. If their feedback isn't utterly useless, it can easily be far too superficial. You're contradicting yourself there: if you're making a product for the certain audience, it is only their desires your should strive to satisfy. Regardless of whether or not they're morons. If they are, then you should take this fact into account and design whatever it is you're designing accordingly. First of all: why? Please, with your obviously vast design experience explain to me: why should I cater exactly to the whims of my users? How does that make for good art? I feel like you're just reiterating the "consumer is always right" platitude and just assuming you know how the design process works. Second: how do I cater to my users when they don't know what they want? They're users, they're not trained to understand the complexities of interaction design. They probably wouldn't know what goes into the design of a good weapon; they might just say "it feels wrong." They might not know what goes into the design of good story; they might just say "I didn't like it." Many probably wouldn't know how to individually address all those issues and just label the whole experience "boring." Frankly, what you'll get is exactly the response to Andromeda: "the animations look dumb." OK then, show me the hard evidence that proves definitively that Andromeda is or isn't "a good game." Do the same for whether Andromeda is or isn't "too big for its own good." I'll save you the trouble and say that you can't. I suppose you could quote me sales figures as evidence of the former, but let's not conflate artistic merit with marketability, lest we call Transformers a brilliant work of art. However, you can do nothing about the latter. How do you prove that? How do you know how to solve it? Users don't have an answer for you. That's why game development is difficult: you need professional designers to go in and figure out exactly where a game went wrong. Critics do the same, just on the sidelines. Do you think going to college for literature is a waste of time? Do you think that it doesn't produce better writers? Because that's what any humanities college is: critics providing their students with opinions on how they might better their works.
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Post by smilesja on May 4, 2017 21:35:33 GMT
I genuinely don't understand why someone would watch an hour long video telling them how they should (or shouldn't) feel about a certain game. This is a problem with art criticism in general, of course, not this particular guy against whom I have nothing personally. It is critique, not review. Critique is presenting a poibt of view to consider, and in the case of Gervais, one that is stemming from erudite study of Sci-Fi tropes and conventions combined with BioWare's history. Such criticism is valid because of where it is rooted. It's not meant to tell you how to think, it's meant to offer perspective of a product. It's a good thing because of not only the artistry involved in the game, but also of the enjoyment and growth of gaming as a medium. Problem is that some people use reviews as a means to think rather than consider their point of view and come with conclusions of their own. They also use reviews to justify why the game or other things are bad. I'm just tired of the relentless bashing ME: A gets. While I do like the reviewer, I'm not sure I want to watch it all the way through because of the bashing I've read and watched on the internet.
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Post by brad2240 on May 4, 2017 22:04:22 GMT
I'm not sure how I feel about that statement. I liked what they did with Legion in ME2 but I think the handling of the Geth in ME3 was one of the low points of the trilogy. I think I would rather the Kett remain simple and generic, an enemy to easily be disliked, than go through the heavy-handed "we're not really bad" stuff again. The Kett need a really compelling leader as an antagonist. The Archon could have gotten there, maybe if he'd been a little more present in the game. I have hopes that the Primus or whoever is next has a little more Saren or Loghain in them. Correct me if i'm wrong but didn't bioware said that we would be able to sympathize with the Kett?? Personally didn't really see anything sympathetic about them.
I honestly don't know if they said that or not. If they did then they didn't live up to it, IMO, because I didn't find anything in the Kett that I sympathized with either.
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RoboticWater
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Post by RoboticWater on May 4, 2017 22:10:59 GMT
It is critique, not review. Critique is presenting a poibt of view to consider, and in the case of Gervais, one that is stemming from erudite study of Sci-Fi tropes and conventions combined with BioWare's history. Such criticism is valid because of where it is rooted. It's not meant to tell you how to think, it's meant to offer perspective of a product. It's a good thing because of not only the artistry involved in the game, but also of the enjoyment and growth of gaming as a medium. Problem is that some people use reviews as a means to think rather than consider their point of view and come with conclusions of their own.They also use reviews to justify why the game or other things are bad. Not sure I see the problem with that. Critique is intended to be used as justification. They're well-researched and well-reasoned pieces of evidence. They're made, intentionally or not, to help others articulate their feelings about a particular subject. Sure, saying merely "Noah didn't like it" isn't very good justification, but clearly, that isn't a good application of critique. Honestly, I think it's OK if people let critique color their conclusions because the average player wouldn't have a very complex opinion anyway. They simply haven't the vocabulary, and it's not as if reviews are replacing people's opinions entirely. Somehow, I doubt that anyone who liked Andromeda prior to watching this video came out totally against the game, or vice versa. Most people want confirmation bias, and I'd rather have people cite well-reasoned critique in their bashing rather than nothing. There's nothing inherently better about coming up with your opinion in a vacuum. If you're a designer, then yes, it's important to know how you like games so you can make them better, but if you're a consumer, then all that matters is your experience. If your opinion of Andromeda sours because of critique, then it sours. It sucks for BioWare I suppose, but as a consumer you'd ideally find media you like despite critical reception. That's the stuff you really love. You don't have to. No one does. I'd still recommend watching his other stuff, but if you don't feel like hearing another negative word on Andromeda, then that's perfectly fine. It begs the question why you would spend your time here on this forum or this thread specifically, but that's your business. I also suggest everyone take argumentative stance on the media they enjoy. Consuming media critical to something you enjoy shouldn't sour your enjoyment of it. If anything, critique should strengthen your own resolve, because if you can defend your position against it, then you're all the more cognizant of why you hold that position. I'd say that if you have to struggle to enjoy something in light of well-reasoned critique, then don't bother struggling. Borderlands takes heat all the time, and I still know I like it. I've seen plenty of critique for it as well, but none of it has changed why I love the game.
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Post by alanc9 on May 5, 2017 3:28:38 GMT
If nothing else, I just want to make people aware of Noah. He's a great critic, and I think he deserves a larger audience. I genuinely don't understand why someone would watch an hour long video telling them how they should (or shouldn't) feel about a certain game. This is a problem with art criticism in general, of course, not this particular guy against whom I have nothing personally. Me too. I've always wondered why so many people are gravitating to such an inefficient medium for presenting and consuming analysis. Any of these hour-long videos could be presented on a couple of web pages with embedded video clips and be read and understood in five minutes.
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on May 5, 2017 3:50:51 GMT
I genuinely don't understand why someone would watch an hour long video telling them how they should (or shouldn't) feel about a certain game. This is a problem with art criticism in general, of course, not this particular guy against whom I have nothing personally. Me too. I've always wondered why so many people are gravitating to such an inefficient medium for presenting and consuming analysis. Any of these hour-long videos could be presented on a couple of web pages with embedded video clips and be read and understood in five minutes. Few of you read my stuff when I post it as is , the video is likely easier to consume. Honestly it's just the form of medium in the end. For me I'm not even watching most of the time, I listen like a podcast while doing other work.
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Post by danishgambit on May 5, 2017 15:35:35 GMT
LOL I thought the thread said Ricky Gervais.
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Post by griffith82 on May 5, 2017 17:26:54 GMT
21st century? I was playing original Legend of Zelda in the '80s I was playing pong in the '70's And that was the bomb lol.
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Post by linksocarina on May 5, 2017 22:42:59 GMT
I was playing pong in the '70's And that was the bomb lol. But have you played SpaceWar?
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Post by griffith82 on May 5, 2017 22:44:37 GMT
And that was the bomb lol. But have you played SpaceWar? I can safely say nope.
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