caridounette
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Post by caridounette on May 2, 2017 23:42:18 GMT
Paragon/Renegade never panned out to what it was supposed to be. Example: You have a prisoner and torturing prisoners is against rules. Paragon: We torture this prisoner we're no better than they are. Renegade: Our enemy doesn't play by the rules, why should we, torture this guy if it helps get the intel we need to win A Paragon should have been a person that held to a certain moral code, someone who was trying to be moral in an immoral world, and a Renegade should have been someone who took the world as it was and did what they felt they needed to do to change it even if they had to cross some lines. Somewhere along the way renegade decisions just turned into killing people for no reason sometimes. I remember on Mordin's recruitment mission, when you're going to find his assistant. You tell the Batarian let him go and you can leave here I give you my word. The Batarian lets the guy go, and the renegade option is just to go back on your word and kill the Batarian anyway. It added nothing to achieving your overall goal, it was killing for the sake of killing, and too many renegade choices came out this way. the renegade option to kill those batarians is about your expectation of what they will do after you let them go. If you believe they are most likely going to attack more citizens of omega (or more humans at that), then the renegade thing to do is to kill them now so you dont have to go after them later. that is an example of taking the world as it presents itself to you. Outlaws be outlaws. Now pointless renegade options for asking for more money from questgivers, that is something I tend to avoid since it doesnt make you more professional or hotheaded. Its just lol-ruthless unless you really need the money (you usually dont). |
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cypherj
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Post by cypherj on May 2, 2017 23:50:44 GMT
Paragon/Renegade never panned out to what it was supposed to be. Example: You have a prisoner and torturing prisoners is against rules. Paragon: We torture this prisoner we're no better than they are. Renegade: Our enemy doesn't play by the rules, why should we, torture this guy if it helps get the intel we need to win A Paragon should have been a person that held to a certain moral code, someone who was trying to be moral in an immoral world, and a Renegade should have been someone who took the world as it was and did what they felt they needed to do to change it even if they had to cross some lines. Somewhere along the way renegade decisions just turned into killing people for no reason sometimes. I remember on Mordin's recruitment mission, when you're going to find his assistant. You tell the Batarian let him go and you can leave here I give you my word. The Batarian lets the guy go, and the renegade option is just to go back on your word and kill the Batarian anyway. It added nothing to achieving your overall goal, it was killing for the sake of killing, and too many renegade choices came out this way. the renegade option to kill those batarians is about your expectation of what they will do after you let them go. If you believe they are most likely going to attack more citizens of omega (or more humans at that), then the renegade thing to do is to kill them now so you dont have to go after them later. that is an example of taking the world as it presents itself to you. Outlaws be outlaws. Now pointless renegade options for asking for more money from questgivers, that is something I tend to avoid since it doesnt make you more professional or hotheaded. Its just lol-ruthless unless you really need the money (you usually dont). That's an example of telling people your word means nothing. Renegade would be I'm not negotiating, let the man go or die right here, those are your two options. |
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erikson
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Post by erikson on May 2, 2017 23:59:20 GMT
Paragon/Renegade never panned out to what it was supposed to be. Example: You have a prisoner and torturing prisoners is against rules. Paragon: We torture this prisoner we're no better than they are. Renegade: Our enemy doesn't play by the rules, why should we, torture this guy if it helps get the intel we need to win A Paragon should have been a person that held to a certain moral code, someone who was trying to be moral in an immoral world, and a Renegade should have been someone who took the world as it was and did what they felt they needed to do to change it even if they had to cross some lines. Somewhere along the way renegade decisions just turned into killing people for no reason sometimes. I remember on Mordin's recruitment mission, when you're going to find his assistant. You tell the Batarian let him go and you can leave here I give you my word. The Batarian lets the guy go, and the renegade option is just to go back on your word and kill the Batarian anyway. It added nothing to achieving your overall goal, it was killing for the sake of killing, and too many renegade choices came out this way. the renegade option to kill those batarians is about your expectation of what they will do after you let them go. If you believe they are most likely going to attack more citizens of omega (or more humans at that), then the renegade thing to do is to kill them now so you dont have to go after them later. that is an example of taking the world as it presents itself to you. Outlaws be outlaws. Now pointless renegade options for asking for more money from questgivers, that is something I tend to avoid since it doesnt make you more professional or hotheaded. Its just lol-ruthless unless you really need the money (you usually dont).. I see this as a problem of terminology. Pargaon is quite clear, but what the exact meaning of renegade is, or should be, seems to be different for each player. |
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Post by dreman999 on May 3, 2017 0:01:38 GMT
So this is dai all over again where compliance about the limited role playing experience but really mean they just don't like not being an assholes to everyone.
I remember a time people side mass effect was too black and white, not it's nor black enough.
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caridounette
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Post by caridounette on May 3, 2017 0:03:01 GMT
the renegade option to kill those batarians is about your expectation of what they will do after you let them go. If you believe they are most likely going to attack more citizens of omega (or more humans at that), then the renegade thing to do is to kill them now so you dont have to go after them later. that is an example of taking the world as it presents itself to you. Outlaws be outlaws. Now pointless renegade options for asking for more money from questgivers, that is something I tend to avoid since it doesnt make you more professional or hotheaded. Its just lol-ruthless unless you really need the money (you usually dont). That's an example of telling people your word means nothing. Renegade would be I'm not negotiating, let the man go or die right here, those are your two options. I dont know... Being taken at her word is usually something my Paragons rely on (so she dont have to shoot ppl). My Renegades dont care what others will think of them. They are here to do the things others wont so shit get done. Then again, I dont really play Renegade for the Big Badass persona. YMMV. Again, it just shows mixing it up with the blue and red as it makes sense to you usually yields the most satisfying outcome (once you know what to expect from the game) |
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deebo305
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Stealing Your Bike ;)
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Post by deebo305 on May 3, 2017 0:06:14 GMT
Much as I like Ryder, I don't disagree. The only moment where Ryder ever really feel like a hardware is during the Moshae rescue & Liam's loyalty mission. Even the incident with PeeBee was abit too soft
Chill, sarcastic Ryder is cool to have but Renegade Shep fans do deserve their shot in the arm as well
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Post by dreman999 on May 3, 2017 0:20:32 GMT
Much as I like Ryder, I don't disagree. The only moment where Ryder ever really feel like a hardware is during the Moshae rescue & Liam's loyalty mission. Even the incident with PeeBee was abit too soft Chill, sarcastic Ryder is cool to have but Renegade Shep fans do deserve their shot in the arm as well you can always yell at Liam after his mission. |
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on May 3, 2017 0:25:29 GMT
Too true. I wasn't expecting Shepard 2.0 but I can't stomach the inability to talk back to / argue / present alternative discussion with chars with a lousy attitude or the unrealistic expectations / goals they heaped on Ryder. Can't even yell at idiots making wrong decisions / endangering the ship and crew mates. Can't even get angry / blow off steam at someone over the stress. What, does Ryder not feel stress with the load? Hey people are starving, need new homes, etc, yadda ydda. No, it's ok, I got this.
I ended feeling Ryder is a insipid automaton; everything bounces off them as they go their happy-humming-go-lucky-way. I didn't much care for them or any of the chars.
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Post by frank on May 3, 2017 0:50:30 GMT
"you can always yell at Liam after his mission."
I wanted to - oh how I wanted too.
The two options I was given were both tame.
After the way Liam and Peebee (pardon the language) fucked me and everyone else over, I refused to have anything more to do with them. Unfortunately, all my Ryder could do was sulk and ignore them.
I dreamily imagine, how Shepard would have dealt with them....oops - who left the airlock open..........
Seriously - even in the Real World, their behaviour would have been unconscionable and not tolerated even by Ghandi.
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Post by colfoley on May 3, 2017 1:02:55 GMT
"you can always yell at Liam after his mission." I wanted to - oh how I wanted too. The two options I was given were both tame. After the way Liam and Peebee (pardon the language) fucked me and everyone else over, I refused to have anything more to do with them. Unfortunately, all my Ryder could do was sulk and ignore them. I dreamily imagine, how Shepard would have dealt with them....oops - who left the airlock open.......... Seriously - even in the Real World, their behaviour would have been unconscionable and not tolerated even by Ghandi. I've seen the fight. It got heated. Very heated. |
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Post by frank on May 3, 2017 1:13:18 GMT
"you can always yell at Liam after his mission." I wanted to - oh how I wanted too. The two options I was given were both tame. After the way Liam and Peebee (pardon the language) fucked me and everyone else over, I refused to have anything more to do with them. Unfortunately, all my Ryder could do was sulk and ignore them. I dreamily imagine, how Shepard would have dealt with them....oops - who left the airlock open.......... Seriously - even in the Real World, their behaviour would have been unconscionable and not tolerated even by Ghandi. I've seen the fight. It got heated. Very heated. *scratches head* I basically got two options: "I understand why you did it." or "Let's put it behind us." (Or something similar). There was no heat - just frustration on my part. Maybe I should have chosen "understand". (I played with the emotion-hints off, as I didn't want to be influenced.) |
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2017 1:21:07 GMT
Exactly - I've played Shepard as myself, as honourable professional, and as takes shit from no-one bad-ass. That isn't possible. Shepard took plenty of crap - from the Council, Udina, the VS and other squaddies, and a wide variety of other NPCs. Shepard was grounded twice and incarcerated at the opening of ME3 (and joked about it). Neither Shepard nor Ryder are delicate snowflakes who get to stay all warm and cozy and protected in their very own little safe space. They have to deal with a variety of other people, some of whom are a-holes. |
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Post by dreman999 on May 3, 2017 1:24:30 GMT
"you can always yell at Liam after his mission." I wanted to - oh how I wanted too. The two options I was given were both tame. After the way Liam and Peebee (pardon the language) fucked me and everyone else over, I refused to have anything more to do with them. Unfortunately, all my Ryder could do was sulk and ignore them. I dreamily imagine, how Shepard would have dealt with them....oops - who left the airlock open.......... Seriously - even in the Real World, their behaviour would have been unconscionable and not tolerated even by Ghandi. Wait...calling him out on his shit is tame? This is so satisfyingly renegade you can fall asleep to this. |
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2017 1:33:40 GMT
"you can always yell at Liam after his mission." I wanted to - oh how I wanted too. The two options I was given were both tame. After the way Liam and Peebee (pardon the language) fucked me and everyone else over, I refused to have anything more to do with them. Unfortunately, all my Ryder could do was sulk and ignore them. I dreamily imagine, how Shepard would have dealt with them....oops - who left the airlock open.......... Seriously - even in the Real World, their behaviour would have been unconscionable and not tolerated even by Ghandi. Wait...calling him out on his shit is tame? This is so satisfyingly renegade you can fall asleep to this. I guess putting on your big boy pants and actually being a real leader (who understands that people sometimes screw up) just doesn't work for the kind of character some people want to play. |
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Post by colfoley on May 3, 2017 1:39:33 GMT
Wait...calling him out on his shit is tame? This is so satisfyingly renegade you can fall asleep to this. I guess putting on your big boy pants and actually being a real leader (who understands that people sometimes screw up) just doesn't work for the kind of character some people want to play. and yet can still give out tough love. |
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erikson
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Post by erikson on May 3, 2017 1:39:59 GMT
"you can always yell at Liam after his mission." I wanted to - oh how I wanted too. The two options I was given were both tame. After the way Liam and Peebee (pardon the language) fucked me and everyone else over, I refused to have anything more to do with them. Unfortunately, all my Ryder could do was sulk and ignore them. I dreamily imagine, how Shepard would have dealt with them....oops - who left the airlock open.......... Seriously - even in the Real World, their behaviour would have been unconscionable and not tolerated even by Ghandi. Shepard? Whose Shepard? Mine probably wouldn't have acted much different than Ryder. In fact my Ryder shot the Cardinal in the face, which makes for one "renegade" kill for her against 0 for my Shep. ::shrugs:: |
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Post by frank on May 3, 2017 1:48:21 GMT
Wait...calling him out on his shit is tame? This is so satisfyingly renegade you can fall asleep to this. I guess putting on your big boy pants and actually being a real leader (who understands that people sometimes screw up) just doesn't work for the kind of character some people want to play. Um - I am 57. Have spent my life leading people both in civilian and military life. And I can assure you - what Liam and Peebee did, went way beyond "people make mistakes". Also - the way Ryder is spoken to would only be tolerated by a very weak leader - who would soon find himself unable to lead - due to the fact that his team neither respects him, nor has any confidence in his leadership abilities. I will leave it at this, because I didn't post to get into an argument, but in the hope, that Bioware is looking for more specific feedback than the usual "This game sucks!" |
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Post by colfoley on May 3, 2017 1:48:42 GMT
And i wanted to give one of my Shepards a sense of humor. I couldn't do it.
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Post by colfoley on May 3, 2017 1:51:03 GMT
I guess putting on your big boy pants and actually being a real leader (who understands that people sometimes screw up) just doesn't work for the kind of character some people want to play. Um - I am 57. Have spent my life leading people both in civilian and military life. And I can assure you - what Liam and Peebee did, went way beyond "people make mistakes". Also - the way Ryder is spoken to would only be tolerated by a very weak leader - who would soon find himself unable to lead - due to the fact that his team neither respects him, nor has any confidence in his leadership abilities. I will leave it at this, because I didn't post to get into an argument, but in the hope, that Bioware is looking for more specific feedback than the usual "This game sucks!" Ryder didn't tolerate Liam talking to himself that way. If i didn't know better and listening to the conversation Liam was about one wrong word from getting kicked off the ship. |
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Post by dreman999 on May 3, 2017 1:52:03 GMT
Wait...calling him out on his shit is tame? This is so satisfyingly renegade you can fall asleep to this. I guess putting on your big boy pants and actually being a real leader (who understands that people sometimes screw up) just doesn't work for the kind of character some people want to play. Na...people just want to be renegade assholes just because... |
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Post by dreman999 on May 3, 2017 1:56:24 GMT
I guess putting on your big boy pants and actually being a real leader (who understands that people sometimes screw up) just doesn't work for the kind of character some people want to play. Um - I am 57. Have spent my life leading people both in civilian and military life. And I can assure you - what Liam and Peebee did, went way beyond "people make mistakes". Also - the way Ryder is spoken to would only be tolerated by a very weak leader - who would soon find himself unable to lead - due to the fact that his team neither respects him, nor has any confidence in his leadership abilities. I will leave it at this, because I didn't post to get into an argument, but in the hope, that Bioware is looking for more specific feedback than the usual "This game sucks!" Peebee was more personal. Nothing much was not a stake that was not already at stake so I'm fine with her. Liam on the other hand gave out codes to people who yet know to be trusted in a action that could lead to an uncontested attack on the initiative. Imagine if the kett or the Roekaar got their hands on them. But as i pointed out before...you can call him out on his shit about it. |
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Post by erikson on May 3, 2017 1:56:41 GMT
I guess putting on your big boy pants and actually being a real leader (who understands that people sometimes screw up) just doesn't work for the kind of character some people want to play. Um - I am 57. Have spent my life leading people both in civilian and military life. And I can assure you - what Liam and Peebee did, went way beyond "people make mistakes". Also - the way Ryder is spoken to would only be tolerated by a very weak leader - who would soon find himself unable to lead - due to the fact that his team neither respects him, nor has any confidence in his leadership abilities. I will leave it at this, because I didn't post to get into an argument, but in the hope, that Bioware is looking for more specific feedback than the usual "This game sucks!" I think it would be more advantageous for you to contact Bioware then, maybe show them a resume, rather than telling a bunch of chuckle heads like us.  |
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Post by erikson on May 3, 2017 1:59:20 GMT
From all the heming and haughing over protocol, it just makes me wonder if smugglers ever sat around and critized Han Solo's behavior in Star Wars, or if gangsters secretly congregate and complain about the state of Jabba the Hutt's Rancor pit.
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Post by colfoley on May 3, 2017 1:59:35 GMT
Um - I am 57. Have spent my life leading people both in civilian and military life. And I can assure you - what Liam and Peebee did, went way beyond "people make mistakes". Also - the way Ryder is spoken to would only be tolerated by a very weak leader - who would soon find himself unable to lead - due to the fact that his team neither respects him, nor has any confidence in his leadership abilities. I will leave it at this, because I didn't post to get into an argument, but in the hope, that Bioware is looking for more specific feedback than the usual "This game sucks!" Peebee was more personal. Nothing much was not a stake that was not already at stake so I'm fine with her. Liam on the other hand gave out codes to people who yet know to be trusted in a action that could lead to an uncontested attack on the initiative. Imagine if the kett or the Roekaar got their hands on them. But as i pointed out before...you can call him out on his shit about it. you can even call peebee out on her shit tio v Granted I'd prefer harsher punishment but at the end of the day she is basically a kid. The punishment fit the maturity level. |
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Post by frank on May 3, 2017 2:05:51 GMT
Um - I am 57. Have spent my life leading people both in civilian and military life. And I can assure you - what Liam and Peebee did, went way beyond "people make mistakes". Also - the way Ryder is spoken to would only be tolerated by a very weak leader - who would soon find himself unable to lead - due to the fact that his team neither respects him, nor has any confidence in his leadership abilities. I will leave it at this, because I didn't post to get into an argument, but in the hope, that Bioware is looking for more specific feedback than the usual "This game sucks!" I think it would be more advantageous for you to contact Bioware then, maybe show them a resume, rather than telling a bunch of chuckle heads like us. *grin* Again - didn't post because I want to sit around arguing with a "bunch of chuckleheads" like me. I LOVED ME1-3. I posted because I'm hoping someone from Bioware is reading this and will re-think MEA2. I couldn't find a forum specifically dedicated to "Feedback & Suggestions". Link anyone? |
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