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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 2, 2018 12:47:23 GMT
Many people like destroy... I take comfort in the fact that making destroy canon will never happen in reality. Just like they said they don't get rid of the Engineer class despite only 3% (or something similar) plays it, the ones that wouldn't like destroy to be canon is too huge for them to choose it as canon. They don't want to alienate any of their player base. Even though it might be too late for that, the damage will only be bigger of they choose a canon ending. Depends on the game they want to make. Post Destroy would make a good survival game as you savange supplies and try to help rebuild the shattered society
Synthesis would be good if you want to make an exploring game given the new access to technology would allow unprecident levels of exploration of the galaxy
Control would be if they wanted to pretty much keep the status quo of the original trilogy
Refuse would be a good hard reset for the series with entirely new races rather then trying to forcefully shoehorn in prexisting ones from original trilogy.
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Post by TheAntiSocialFatMan on Sept 2, 2018 19:37:57 GMT
Many people like destroy... I take comfort in the fact that making destroy canon will never happen in reality. Just like they said they don't get rid of the Engineer class despite only 3% (or something similar) plays it, the ones that wouldn't like destroy to be canon is too huge for them to choose it as canon. They don't want to alienate any of their player base. Even though it might be too late for that, the damage will only be bigger of they choose a canon ending. Depends on the game they want to make. Post Destroy would make a good survival game as you savange supplies and try to help rebuild the shattered society
Synthesis would be good if you want to make an exploring game given the new access to technology would allow unprecident levels of exploration of the galaxy
Control would be if they wanted to pretty much keep the status quo of the original trilogy
Refuse would be a good hard reset for the series with entirely new races rather then trying to forcefully shoehorn in prexisting ones from original trilogy.
I'm confused, how would Post Destroy make a good survival game? The ending shows all races coming together, rebuilding society, repairing the Mass Relays and the Citadel which now hangs pride of place above earth. Krogans, Quarians, Humans etc are all doing great, if not better than ever. The only race that's actually struggling hard is the Batarians, but I can't see Bioware making a main series games where the PC is anything other than human.
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Post by TheAntiSocialFatMan on Sept 2, 2018 19:40:42 GMT
Many people like destroy... I take comfort in the fact that making destroy canon will never happen in reality. Just like they said they don't get rid of the Engineer class despite only 3% (or something similar) plays it, the ones that wouldn't like destroy to be canon is too huge for them to choose it as canon. They don't want to alienate any of their player base. Even though it might be too late for that, the damage will only be bigger of they choose a canon ending. Do you have some stats? I tried googling it but couldn't find any regarding player ending choice. However, when looking at polls and if Youtube view count & like/dislike ratio is anything to go by, it seems the majority like Destroy the most. However what is more likely is that Bioware won't make any ending canon, any return to the Milky Way will either be set so far into the future it won't matter, or some kind of prequel.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 2, 2018 20:17:37 GMT
Depends on the game they want to make. Post Destroy would make a good survival game as you savange supplies and try to help rebuild the shattered society
Synthesis would be good if you want to make an exploring game given the new access to technology would allow unprecident levels of exploration of the galaxy
Control would be if they wanted to pretty much keep the status quo of the original trilogy
Refuse would be a good hard reset for the series with entirely new races rather then trying to forcefully shoehorn in prexisting ones from original trilogy.
I'm confused, how would Post Destroy make a good survival game? The ending shows all races coming together, rebuilding society, repairing the Mass Relays and the Citadel which now hangs pride of place above earth. Krogans, Quarians, Humans etc are all doing great, if not better than ever. The only race that's actually struggling hard is the Batarians, but I can't see Bioware making a main series games where the PC is anything other than human. Because the Destroy ending is more or less the fan fiction ending because BioWare would never create a bad ending for the trilogy. Hence why even at high enough EMS you get the Shepard breath scene. Even though he/she was already on the brink of death from the Harbinger attack, was slowly bleeding out and then was in the middle of a massive explosion. Yet some how survives.
The Reaper War would leave the galaxy on the brink of destruction given nearly every inhabited planet has been devastated if not turned into rubble and ash. Food/Water/Fuel/Medicine production would be reduced to a fraction of it's pre war level if not eliminated. Without Mass Relays it would take weeks to months of travel to reach one star system to another. And a most important aspect if the galaxy has no idea how to build a Mass Relay. The Protheans at the pinnacle of their power only had a prototype build.
Destory ending hand waves away all the implicated negative aspects of it to give you a feel good ending. In fact it double hand waves the bad stuff like the fact the destroy hand waves only effects Reapers. Even though all technology is based on Reaper tech. Yet some how the ships are only damaged not destroyed like the Reapers are.
Both Control and Synthesis have less implicit negative impacts. With the Reapers still around they would be able to effectively rebuild the Mass Relays. They could be used given they can travel like 16x the speed of any other ship in the galaxy distribute the food, water, medicine and fuel that the galaxy would need to rebuild.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 2, 2018 20:59:48 GMT
. They could be used given they can travel like 16x the speed of any other ship in the galaxy Source proving the reapers can travel 16 times faster than any ship in the galaxy?
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 2, 2018 21:23:38 GMT
. They could be used given they can travel like 16x the speed of any other ship in the galaxy Source proving the reapers can travel 16 times faster than any ship in the galaxy? Pluto which is were the Charon Relay is set up is ~ 7.5 billion light years from Earth. Which Earth keeps a Fleet at for protection. By the time the Alert reached Earth the Fleet was under attack the Reapers were already at the moon. They are capable of traveling 30 light years in a 24 hour period and do not seem to stop every 3 days to discharge the build up static. So they do not have to accelerate and decelerate every 3 days which speeds up their over all travel rate.
But the actual speed isn't consistent as the Reapers are suppose to be around 10,957 times the speed of light. With is suppose to be double what Citadel ships can do but the Alliance is only 50 times the speed of light and the Andromeda ARKS traveled 4,167 time the speed of light to reach the Andromeda Galaxy in 600 years. That is some serious unevenness as Citadel ships like Destiny Ascension can travel over 5,000 times the speed of light but SR-2 can only max out at 50 times speed of light.
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Post by Ascend on Sept 2, 2018 21:35:31 GMT
Many people like destroy... I take comfort in the fact that making destroy canon will never happen in reality. Just like they said they don't get rid of the Engineer class despite only 3% (or something similar) plays it, the ones that wouldn't like destroy to be canon is too huge for them to choose it as canon. They don't want to alienate any of their player base. Even though it might be too late for that, the damage will only be bigger of they choose a canon ending. Do you have some stats? I tried googling it but couldn't find any regarding player ending choice. However, when looking at polls and if Youtube view count & like/dislike ratio is anything to go by, it seems the majority like Destroy the most. However what is more likely is that Bioware won't make any ending canon, any return to the Milky Way will either be set so far into the future it won't matter, or some kind of prequel. It's not an 'official' survey result, but it's the best we have. Destroy - Kill the Reapers, at any cost! 2794 49.5% Control - Peace through power! 626 11.1% Synthesis - Peace through forced Utopia! 1928 34.2% Refuse - I ain't doing things your way, Starbrat... 145 2.6% None of the above - I used a custom mod ending! 148 2.6% Some nice other statistics are available there...; docs.google.com/forms/d/1u6dvZTxEuoaNUcJubqw3P8nqXKMbWp6YQ5BcN0Vmf-k/viewanalyticsAs a reference, Synthesis is more common than the amount of players that used Vanguard and Infiltrator... Combined. Or... Synthesis is more popular than Liara, and about 10 times as common as the amount of players that shot Mordin. And Paragon players are quite a bit more common than players that chose destroy.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 2, 2018 21:55:34 GMT
Pluto which is were the Charon Relay is set up is ~ 7.5 billion light years from Earth. I looked that up. The distance is ~ 0.000628 ly. Anyways. Can you post a link proving that reapers travel 16 times faster than ships in the galaxy?
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 2, 2018 22:07:31 GMT
Pluto which is were the Charon Relay is set up is ~ 7.5 billion light years from Earth. I looked that up. The distance is ~ 0.000628 ly. Anyways. Can you post a link to proving that reapers travel 16 times faster than ships in the galaxy? Just quick wiki search if you can find the conversion of KM to light years for Pluto to Earth you can easily do that. How ever as I pointed out the calculation is simply a 24 hour period and doesn't take into account static discharge and fuel consumption and resupply since the Reapers are never shown in game refueling. A Codex even points out how the Reapers destroy fuel depots rather then capturing them for themselves.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 2, 2018 22:30:27 GMT
Just quick wiki search if you can find the conversion of KM to light years for Pluto to Earth you can easily do that. Yet you posted 7.5 billion light years instead of the number I posted Is there a source or not backing up what you posted about reapers traveling 16 times faster than any ship in the galaxy?
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 2, 2018 23:17:16 GMT
Just quick wiki search if you can find the conversion of KM to light years for Pluto to Earth you can easily do that. Yet you posted 7.5 billion light years instead of the number I posted Is there a source or not backing up what you posted about reapers traveling 16 times faster than any ship in the galaxy? And that was a mistake I meant 7.5M KM from earth. My mistake.
Yes in the wiki feel free to look it up. And remember to take the extra details into account like discharge and refuel times which the Wiki doesn't mention.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 3, 2018 0:02:37 GMT
Yes in the wiki feel free to look it up. And remember to take the extra details into account like discharge and refuel times which the Wiki doesn't mention. Why don't you post a link to where it says the reapers can travel 16 times faster than any ship in the galaxy?
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 3, 2018 1:09:55 GMT
Yes in the wiki feel free to look it up. And remember to take the extra details into account like discharge and refuel times which the Wiki doesn't mention. Why don't you post a link to where it says the reapers can travel 16 times faster than any ship in the galaxy? Why you never post links for supporting arguments. You side step, change subjects and out right ignore questions pointed out to you. I am behaving exactly as you do. I see no reason to do any more or any less
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Post by themikefest on Sept 3, 2018 1:45:18 GMT
Why you never post links for supporting arguments. You side step, change subjects and out right ignore questions pointed out to you. I am behaving exactly as you do. I see no reason to do any more or any less And how many times have I said for someone to go look on wiki for what I posted?
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 3, 2018 13:49:03 GMT
Why you never post links for supporting arguments. You side step, change subjects and out right ignore questions pointed out to you. I am behaving exactly as you do. I see no reason to do any more or any less And how many times have I said for someone to go look on wiki for what I posted? None but then again you only ever really play lip service to using facts and supporting arguments. Which is why this sudden obsession with me posting facts to support my statement is mildly amusing.
And so to prevent this topic from being filled up anymore with our stupid petty bullshit unless you actually look up the details and post a reply in responds to them I will not reply to you anymore on this very specific topic about sourcing facts for someone who never bothers to source facts before now.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 3, 2018 13:58:49 GMT
I did look up how fast reapers can travel. The Reapers' thrusters and FTL drives appear to propel them at more than twice the speed of Citadel ships. Estimates of their location in dark space suggest they can travel nearly 30 light-years in a 24-hour period
source: masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/The_Reapers
So that means the reapers do not travel 16 times faster than any ship in the galaxy.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 3, 2018 14:52:57 GMT
I did look up how fast reapers can travel. The Reapers' thrusters and FTL drives appear to propel them at more than twice the speed of Citadel ships. Estimates of their location in dark space suggest they can travel nearly 30 light-years in a 24-hour period
source: masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/The_Reapers
So that means the reapers do not travel 16 times faster than any ship in the galaxy. Does that take discharge and refuel times into account?
Granted we don't have any hard evidence of it that I remember off the top of my head. But based on ME 2 and 3 a full fuel tank is basically depleted exploring a single nebula. So going from say Exodus Cluster to reach the Perseus Veil to send all those Quarians supplies would take dozens if not hundreds of fuel stops and stops to discharge the static build up on ships. How ever given the Reapers have what seems to be an infinite energy source they do not need to stop and refuel. They would be able to take a direct path from the Exodus Cluster to the Perseus Veil. Which given a post destroy galaxy those fuel depots probably don't exist or are far a few between. This increases their over all travel speed from point A to point B.
Or wait are you simply taking it the most literal way as in top speed or practical application like I'm talking about?
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 4, 2018 3:18:32 GMT
The problem is that without hard numbers you can't make "16" stick. No sense being precise without data.
It might even be worse than 16x, actually. We have no idea how long it takes to scoop fuel from a gas giant, which would be necessary without depots.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 4, 2018 3:25:45 GMT
Source proving the reapers can travel 16 times faster than any ship in the galaxy? Pluto which is were the Charon Relay is set up is ~ 7.5 billion light years from Earth. Which Earth keeps a Fleet at for protection. By the time the Alert reached Earth the Fleet was under attack the Reapers were already at the moon. They are capable of traveling 30 light years in a 24 hour period and do not seem to stop every 3 days to discharge the build up static. So they do not have to accelerate and decelerate every 3 days which speeds up their over all travel rate.
But the actual speed isn't consistent as the Reapers are suppose to be around 10,957 times the speed of light. With is suppose to be double what Citadel ships can do but the Alliance is only 50 times the speed of light and the Andromeda ARKS traveled 4,167 time the speed of light to reach the Andromeda Galaxy in 600 years. That is some serious unevenness as Citadel ships like Destiny Ascension can travel over 5,000 times the speed of light but SR-2 can only max out at 50 times speed of light.
I think everyone agrees that the 50x light speed figure is not to be taken seriously. The other figures are OK.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 4, 2018 12:19:06 GMT
Pluto which is were the Charon Relay is set up is ~ 7.5 billion light years from Earth. Which Earth keeps a Fleet at for protection. By the time the Alert reached Earth the Fleet was under attack the Reapers were already at the moon. They are capable of traveling 30 light years in a 24 hour period and do not seem to stop every 3 days to discharge the build up static. So they do not have to accelerate and decelerate every 3 days which speeds up their over all travel rate.
But the actual speed isn't consistent as the Reapers are suppose to be around 10,957 times the speed of light. With is suppose to be double what Citadel ships can do but the Alliance is only 50 times the speed of light and the Andromeda ARKS traveled 4,167 time the speed of light to reach the Andromeda Galaxy in 600 years. That is some serious unevenness as Citadel ships like Destiny Ascension can travel over 5,000 times the speed of light but SR-2 can only max out at 50 times speed of light.
I think everyone agrees that the 50x light speed figure is not to be taken seriously. The other figures are OK. The 50x speed comes from Mass Effect Revelations which is a prequeal book that happens a few years before the start of ME 1. The problem is that without hard numbers you can't make "16" stick. No sense being precise without data. It might even be worse than 16x, actually. We have no idea how long it takes to scoop fuel from a gas giant, which would be necessary without depots. Well you can make it stick though. Companies like Space X or what ever company of possible super hero/villain Elon Musk is working on self driving semi trucks. Even a semi self driving that only works on the high way requiring a human driver for city and rough terrain areas would be capable of doing the work of 3 current semi truck drivers. Fully automate it, remove the need to refuel and double the speed they travel and that 16x becomes a metric ton closer to realization. They would have to scoop the gases and process it to refine it into fuel for the star ships.
If statements required actual data to back it up and not just estimates and "well I think" then there would be a few posters who have a lot less posts on this and the original BW forums.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 4, 2018 19:42:09 GMT
I think everyone agrees that the 50x light speed figure is not to be taken seriously. The other figures are OK. The 50x speed comes from Mass Effect Revelations which is a prequeal book that happens a few years before the start of ME 1. Yeah, I know it's got a source. But it's a stupid mistake, even if it is official. It's like the typo in Ilos' atmospheric pressure. You can't make the exact figure 16 stick. You just don't have the data. Why did you make up "16"? Why not, say, 23? 12? 87?
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 4, 2018 20:52:47 GMT
The 50x speed comes from Mass Effect Revelations which is a prequeal book that happens a few years before the start of ME 1. Yeah, I know it's got a source. But it's a stupid mistake, even if it is official. It's like the typo in Ilos' atmospheric pressure. You can't make the exact figure 16 stick. You just don't have the data. Why did you make up "16"? Why not, say, 23? 12? 87? Books are a cluster fuck granted but the information is official and still valid. Much like how the Prothean history is a cluster fuck of cluster fucks but it doesn't stop people from cherry picking details to suit their needs about the game's ending. You can but not if you only look at top speed. Which is a piss poor way to discuss travel efficiency. Particularly given how FTL speed works given as said in ME 2 that you accelerate to the half way point then you decelerate to reach your destination. If a jump location lets say between Local cluster and Krogan DMZ would require 1 refuel stop for a non Reaper ship it would mean they would only accelerate to full speed for 1/4 of the way then need to slow down to refuel then accelerate again for another 1/4 the way then decelerate. All that time the Reapers who are already traveling double the speed do not need to slow down till much later.
This all adds to over all speed at which Reapers can travel and increases their travel speed compared to non Reaper ships. 23 is to much, 12 might also be perfectly fine because it depends on the ship, on the distance traveled, if the system has any in tact fuel processing planets and how long the ship can maintain FTL speeds with fuel. 87 is just far to to much.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 6, 2018 15:53:37 GMT
I'm going to have to see your math on this. You say 16x is the figure, so show us exactly how you got to 16.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 7, 2018 1:28:48 GMT
I'm going to have to see your math on this. You say 16x is the figure, so show us exactly how you got to 16. In game the estimated speed of a Reaper is 30 light years in a 24 hour period and the Council Ships at half that speed at 15 light years in a 24 hour. It is also said in game that you accelerate for half the trip then slow down the other half the trip. For simplicity sake lets say the decelerating time is half max speed to simplify the gradual slowing down of a ship. We do not know if the Reapers are held to those same physics but lets assume they did.
Now from the Alpha Relay to the Batarian Home world the game tells us it took the Reapers 6 months of travel. 3 months at full speed and 3 moths at slowing speed. So roughly 4,050 light years were traveled by the Reapers.
Now we are not given specifics of how long a Council Ship can go without needing to refuel and we are only vaugly told that their ships typically need to discharge every 3 days but larger ships can go longer without needing to discharge. So for the sake of argument lets say this Council Ship can go 2 weeks before they need to discharge and 2 month between refuels traveling at full speed.
Both the Reaper and the Council Ship start at the same time and instantly hit max speed.
1 week later the Reaper will have covered 210 light years. The Council Ship will have traveled 105 light years.
How ever at this point the Council Ship will need to decelerate to allow them to discharge the static build up.
2 weeks later the Reaper will have covered 210 light years for a total of 420 light years. The Council Ship will have traveled 52.5 light years for a total of 157.5 light years.
The Council ship discharges and goes back to full speed instantly.
3 weeks (1 month later) the Reaper will have covered 210 light years for a total of 630 light years. The Council Ship will have traveled for 105 light years for a total of 262.5 light years.
Again the Council Ship must decelerate to allow discharge of static build up
4 weeks the Reaper will have covered 210 light years for a total of 840 light years. The Council Ship will have traveled 52.5 light years for a total of 315 light years.
Council Ship discharges and goes back to full speed.
To cut a lot of this short in 3 months (90 days) the Reaper will have traveled 2,700 light years. In the same time frame altering between full and half speed the Council Ship will have only traveled 945 light years.
At this point the Reaper enters the deceleration phase so it only travels a maximum of 15 light years a day. The Council Ship is now able to match the Reaper's max speed but still has to slow down to discharge and refuel.
In another 3 months the Reaper will have traveled 1,350 light years and arrived at their destination. The Council Ship will have traveled 945 light years for a total of 1,890 light years. In 6 months the Council Ship wouldn't even reach the midway point for the Reapers to entire slow down phase.
Since the Council Ship averages 945 light years in 3 months (or 315 light years a month) to travel the 4,050 light year trip it would take ~ 13 months give or take.
So a little over 7 months for the Council ship to arrive after the Reapers.
Now granted there is a lot of information we do not know. This is extremely simplified and I tried to give as much an advantage to Council Ships as I would think is within the realm of realism. And details we do not know like do the ship's engines have to run at full speed constantly. How fast they accelerate in FTL to max speed and how long does it take them to slow down. For example if they only need to accelerate the first 1/4th the travel and decelerate only 1/4th the travel time it could change things.
It also doesn't take into account in a post destroy galaxy needing to salvage/refine fuel to refill the tanks in the ship for travel. As in my example I gave the arrive, discharge/refuel all taking the same day before they are back to full speed.
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Post by lavigne on Sept 10, 2018 23:08:30 GMT
High EMS Destroy.
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